2020 Fantasy Baseball: Pittsburgh Pirates Team Outlook
Pittsburgh missed the playoffs in each of the past four years, which came after three straight trips to the postseason. In 138 years, Pittsburgh has five World Series titles (1909, 1925, 1960, 1971, and 1979) while reaching the playoffs in 17 different years.
Last season, Pittsburgh ranked 26th (5.18 ERA) with 31 saves. They finished 21st in runs (758), 27th in home runs (163), and 20th in RBI (722).
In the offseason, the Pirates signed three bench players (C Luke Maile, IF J.T. Riddle, and OF Guillermo Heredia). Their most significant move came with the trading of OF Starling Marte to the Diamondbacks for SS Liover Peguero and SP Brennan Malone. They added three pitchers (Derek Holland, Robbie Erlin, and Hector Noesi) via minor league deals.
The bullpen is in rebuild mode after losing RP Felipe Vazquez for his off the field issues. The starting rotation has some talent and upside, but there is plenty of inconsistency. Their offense has had a couple of nice bats while lacking overall depth to be competitive in 2020. Pittsburgh has an over/under of 70.5 wins in 2020. Pittsburgh has no chance of reaching the postseason this year.
The Pirates drafted Newman in the first round in 2015 with the 19th pick. Over five seasons in the minors, he hit .287 with 15 home runs, 146 RBI, and 62 steals over 1,630 at-bats. Newman was tough to strike out (10.3 percent) with some weakness in his walk rate (7.0) in his minor league career. After playing well in 2018 at AAA (.302 with four HRs, 35 RBI, and 28 SBs over 437 at-bats), he proved to be a better player in his first full seasons with Pittsburgh (.308 with 61 runs, 12 HRs, 64 RBI, and 16 SBs over 493 at-bats). Newman maintained his low strikeout rate (11.7) while losing some value in his walk rate (5.3). Most of his production came against right-handed pitching (.316 with 11 HRs and 59 RBI over 367 at-bats). He played much better on the road (.350 with nine HRs and 34 RBI over 240 at-bats). Newman offered the most value in June (.316 with four HRs, 16 RBI, and four SBs over 114 at-bats) and August (.317 with four HRs, 16 RBI, and four SBs over 104 at-bats). His hard-hit rate (24.4) ranked 438th. He has a high ground ball rate (49.4) while improving his HR/FB rate (9.8). Not quite a leadoff type bat, and his power invites more regression than upside. Overpriced for me based on his ADP (197). Possible help in batting average with only a 70/10/50/25 skill set.
Reynolds made a slow push through the Pirates system due to boring power and minimal speed. Over four seasons in the minors, he hit .312 with 177 runs, 28 home runs, 158 RBI, and 15 steals over 1,088 at-bats. His bats flashed over 49 at-bats at AAA (.367 with five HRs and 11 RBI) in 2019, leading to a call-up to the majors. With Pittsburgh, Reynolds performed better than expected over his first 446 at-bats (.330 with 80 runs, 16 HRs, 66 RBI, and two SBs) before fading over his final 45 at-bats (.156 with no HRs and two RBI). His CTBA (.416) has been high at every level while showing growth in his AVH (1.604). He played well against righties (.334 with 63 runs, 11 HRs, and 51 RBI over 347 at-bats). Reynolds placed 123rd in his hard-hit rate (41.7). His walk rate (8.4) came in at the league average with a slight risk in his strikeout rate (22.2). He had a low fly-ball rate (29.8) with a push in his HR/FB rate (14.4). Reynolds is an excellent option in batting average with developing power. Look for him to accumulate more steals than are on his minor league resume. Trending toward an 80/20/80 player with an edge in batting average with an OF3 ADP (196).
Bell turned into a complete beast in 2019 while leaving some stats on the table after missing the final two weeks with a groin injury. His AVH (2.055) moved into an elite area with a step up in his CTBA (.357). He continues to have a high walk rate (12.1) while setting a career-high in strikeout rate (19.3). Bell jumped out of the gate with success in April (.286 with 16 runs, six HRs, and 21 RBI over 98 at-bats) while dominating in May (.390 with 26 runs, 12 home runs and 31 RBI over 118 at-bats). He continued to drive in runs (64) and with value in home runs (19) over 311 at-bats, but Bell only hit .232. His failure in batting average came against left-handed pitching (.224 with nine HRs and 25 RBI over 143 at-bats) while pounding righties (.297 with 28 HRs and 91 RBI over 384 at-bats). Bell had a massive RBI rate (21), which was 50 percent higher than in 2018 (14). He finished 33rd in hard-hit rate (47.1). His swing path led to a career-high in his fly-ball rate (37.3) and HR/FB rate (23.9 – 9.2 in 2018). The top of the lineup in Pittsburgh takes a hit without Starling Marte on the roster, and I can't expect repeated success in his RBIs. I'll set the bar at .280 with 90 runs, 35 HRs, and 90 RBI with a midlevel ADP (93).
For the third straight year, Polanco had his season cut short due to an injury. He started the year on the injured list with a slow recovery from left shoulder surgery to repair a torn labrum. Over his first 42 games, he hit .242 with six home runs and 17 RBI over 153 at-bats. Polanco saw his season ended in mid-June with more issues with his left shoulder. After a platelet-rich-plasma injection in early September, he felt better when throwing in December. In 2019, he had a massive strikeout rate (29.3) compared to his career resume (19.7). Polanco showed power and speed in 2016 (22/86/17) and 2018 (23/81/12). His ADP (334) won't require much fight for a fantasy owner to own him. The pieces are there for an 80/25/80/15 season, but I would avoid if there is any more negative news about his shoulder.
Moran had almost the same season in 2018 except for more at-bats. His approach moved backward, leading to a higher strikeout rate (23.3) and a lower walk rate (6.0). Over the first three months, he hit .294 with 31 runs, ten home runs, and 49 RBI over 252 at-bats while receiving short playing time in April (56 at-bats). Despite 32 combined RBI and a .314 batting average in July and August, Moran scored only 17 runs with three home runs. His season ended with some missed time due to a hip injury and no success (.206 over 68 at-bats with three runs, no HRs, and four RBI). Moran had most of his production against right-handed pitching (.278 with 11 HRs and 69 RBI). His hard-hit rate (34.8) came in low with weakness in his AVH (1.550). His CTBA (.370) pushed toward his minor league resume. He still has a short HR/FB rate (11.5). Slightly better than a platoon player, but he doesn't drive the ball enough to repeat his RBI rate (19) or make a push in home runs. At best, a neutral hitter with short runs and chance at 15 home runs and 75 RBI with a free agent pool ADP (527).
The last outfield job in Pittsburgh looks wide open unless they sign a free-agent. In 2019, Osuna gave the Pirates good at-bats (261) as a part-time player. He hit .264 with 41 runs, ten home runs, and 36 RBI. Osuna controlled the damage in strikeouts (16.8 percent) with a below-par walk rate (6.3). When given a starting job for Pittsburgh in September, he hit .222 with no home runs and five RBI. Over ten seasons in the minors, his bat never had an impact year (.281 with 84 HRs, 478 RBI, and 49 SBs over 3,101 at-bats). He has a ground ball swing (47.5 percent – 49.4 in his career) with a career-high HR/FB rate (14.5). With the growth in his AVH (1.725) and a viable approach, Osuna should get the first shot to prove himself in 2020. With 500 at-bats, he may make a run at a 75/20/75 season.
Pittsburgh gave Frazier a full season of at-bats (554) for the first time in 2019, but he remains a boring fantasy option. His AVH (1.500) regressed from his move forward in 2018 (1.648). Last year Frazier batted leadoff for about 60 percent of his at-bats despite a fading walk rate (6.6). He set a career-low in his strikeout rate (12.3). His best play came over the last three months (.303 with 42 runs, seven HRs, and 31 RBI over 274 at-bats). Frazier offered more value against right-handed pitching (.285 with nine HRs and 39 RBI over 411 at-bats). His hard-hit rate (28.0) ranked 407th in baseball while his HR/FB rate (6.4) came in well below in 2018 (12.0). Frazier may bat leadoff start the year, but someone better should emerge. Only a two category neutral player if he repeats his opportunity while being a liability in home runs, RBI, and steals.
The catching cupboard for the Pirates lacks talent throughout their system, which means any one of multiple low resume veteran options could emerge in 2020. Stallings failed to make an impact over four seasons at AAA (.265 with 15 HRs and 113 RBI over 780 at-bats). Pittsburgh gave him his best opportunity in the majors last year. He hit .262 over 191 at-bats with 26 runs, six home runs, and 13 RBI. His strikeout rate (19.1) and walk rate (7.6) came in close to the league average. Low upside player who never had over 265 at-bats in any year in the minors.
The Pirates selected Tucker 24th overall in the 2014 MLB June Amateur Draft out of high school. Over six seasons in the minors, he hit .266 with 25 home runs, 159 RBI, and 137 steals in 2,081 at-bats. His best success came in 2017 between High A and AA (.275 with six HRs, 50 RBI, and 47 SBs in 444 at-bats). Tucker has an above-average walk rate (9.4) with a reasonable K rate (18.4). He didn’t make an impact at AAA in 2019 (.261 with eight HRs, 28 RBI, and 11 SBs over 310 at-bats) while failing his first major league experience (.211 with two HRs and 13 RBI over 147 at-bats). His approach (strikeout rate – 25.2 and walk rate – 6.3) has more weaknesses with the Pirates. Overall, his AVH (1.580 in the minors and 1.710 in the majors) did show growth. Possible speed out if he improved in 2020 with a chance at double-digit home runs with 550 at-bats.
Kramer played well at AAA in 2018 (.311 with 15 HRs, 59 RBI, and 13 SBs over 476 at-bats), but he regressed in 2019 (.260 with ten HRs and 54 RBI over 393 at-bats) at the same level. Pittsburgh drafted him in the second round in the 2015 MLB June Amateur Draft. His walk rate (8.7) is just above the league average with a neutral strikeout rate (19.7). Over five years in the minors, he hit .286 with 35 home runs, 220 RBI, and 40 steals over 1,757 at-bats. Kramer struggled in his limited at-bats in the majors over the past two years (.152 with no HRs and nine RBI over 79 at-bats). In the mix for playing time in the outfield with experience at second and short.
Hayes made the climb of one level in each of the past three years while remaining one of the Pirates’ top prospects. Over five seasons in the minors, he hit .279 with 254 runs, 25 home runs, 202 RBI, and 66 stolen bases over 1,731 at-bats. He will take some walks (9.4) while minimizing the damage in strikeouts (16.8). Hayes projects to be a top defender while needing to get stronger to pump up his value in home runs. He stole 27 bags in 2017 at High A, but he doesn’t project to offer plus speed on the bases. With a full season at AAA (.265 with ten HRs, 53 RBI, and 12 SBs over 427 at-bats), Hayes should be in the majors early in 2020. He has a lot of work to do with his bat, but his AVH (1.566) is trending up.
Luke Maile (C) will compete for the backup catching job in Pittsburgh in 2020. Over his five seasons in the majors, he hit .198 with 53 runs, ten home runs, and 60 RBI over 605 at-bats. Maile has never been a starting catcher in the pros with a peak of 202 at-bats in 2028. His strikeout rate (27.3) has been high in his career.
Erik Gonzalez (IF) struggled over his first 51 at-bats (.216 with no HRs and two RBI), before landing on the injured list for three and half months with a broken collar bone. In limited playing time in August and September, he hit .275 with one home run and four RBI over 91 at-bats. Over four seasons in the majors, Gonzalez hit .260 over 404 at-bats with 52 runs, six home runs, 33 RBI, and eight steals. He did play better over ten seasons in the minors (.271 with 45 HRs, 369 RBI, and 105 SBs over 3,0008 at-bats). Only a utility option while not being a lock to make the roster.
JT Riddle (IF) has three years of playing time in the majors (.229 with 63 runs, 18 HRs, and 79 RBI over 668 at-bats). He hit .275 over seven seasons in the minors with 29 home runs, 205 RBI, and 30 steals over 1,746 at-bats. An improving power with some experience in the outfield.
Guillermo Heredia (OF) never worked his way into starting at-bats over the past three seasons with Seattle and Tampa. Over four years in the majors, he hit .240 with 115 runs, 17 home runs, 75 RBI, and six stolen bases over 974 at-bats. His strikeout rate (26.0) spiked in 2019 with about a league average walk rate (7.8). Only a fourth outfield option.
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Musgrove had the best season of his career in 2019 as far as innings pitched (170.1). Even with more length to his year, he underachieved again in ERA (4.44) despite strength in his command (strikeout rate – 8.3 and walk rate – 2.1). After pitching well in April (1.54 ERA and 31 Ks over 35 innings), Musgrove had five disaster starts over his next nine games (7.59 ERA, 1.593 WHIP, and .298 BAA over 42.2 innings with 30 Ks). He bounced back over his next eight starts (3.09 ERA) while allowing nine home runs over 43.2 innings. Two more ugly games ruined his August (6.27 ERA and 1.394 WHIP) while looking sharp over his final three starts (2.245 ERA and 21 Ks over 16 innings). Musgrove struggled against left-handed batters (.270 with 11 HRs over 319 at-bats). His AFB (92.9) was more than one MPH lower than in 2018 (94.1). Both his slider (.182 BAA) and curveball (.180 BAA) had exceptional results while his changeup (.244 BAA) was an advantage. Musgrove lost his value due to regression in his fastball (four-seam – .300 with eight HRs over 207 at-bats and sinker – .366 with two HRs over 82 at-bats). He comes off the board as a mid-tier starter with an ADP of 217 in early February. I like his command and minor league resume (30-13 with 2.86 ERA and 344 Ks over 362 innings), but trusting him for a full season of starts only came in 2019. The Pirates will win only three out of every seven games in 2020 while having a questionable bullpen. Enough upside to post a sub 3.75 ERA with serviceable strikeouts if his price fits your plan.
(Update: Archer underwent surgery to help with symptoms of neurogenic thoracic outlet syndrome. He is out for the 2020 season.)
The Tyler Glasnow and Austin Meadows for Chris Archer will go down as one of the worst trades in the history of the Pirates. Since the deal, Archer is 6-12 with 4.92 ERA and 203 strikeouts over 172 innings while Glasnow went 7-6 with a 2.94 ERA and 140 strikeouts over 116.1 innings. In 2019, Archer looked fine over his first four starts (2.74 ERA, .205 BAA, and 26 Ks over 23 innings), but he crushed fantasy teams over his next eight starts (7.56 ERA, 1.728 WHIP, .289 BAA, and 14 HRs over 41.2 innings). Over this stretch, Archer missed 19 days due to a thumb injury. Over his final 11 games, he had 4.42 ERA and 74 strikeouts over 55 innings while trending forward in August (3.00 ERA and 27 Ks over 18 innings). His season ended with a bum right shoulder while having a slight hip issue in June. Archer had a high strikeout rate (10.8), but he walked the most batters (4.1 per nine) of his career with massive damage in home runs allowed (25 over 119.2 innings – 1.9 per nine innings). Over his last 117 starts, he went 28-48 with a 4.31 ERA and 787 strikeouts over 670.1 innings. His more significant risk in 2019 came against righties (.260 with 13 HRs over 254 at-bats). His AFB (94.2) fell more than one MPH from 2018 (95.3). Batters struggled to hit his slider (.232 with 87 Ks over 207 at-bats) and changeup (.214 BAA). Pretty much a dirt devil in the 2020 draft season based on his ADP (270). Archer wasn’t healthy last year, and he will get strikeouts. His sliding fastball, paired with a spike in home runs allowed, and an increase in walks is a lousy combination. I won’t write him off, but I won’t fight for him either. In the end, Archer’s risk in WHIP should be the deciding factor in Roto formats.
Williams went from a trusted inning eater with a low value in strikeouts to a train wreck in one easy season. His walk rate (2.7) was career-best while improving each year in the majors. He had a better strikeout rate (7.0) than his successful 2018 season (6.6). Williams saw his ERA rise from 3.11 to 5.38 after being much earlier to hit (.284 – .231 in 2018) with massive damage in his HR/9 rate (1.7 – 0.8 in 2018). His arm looked serviceable over his first nine starts (3.33 ERA and 42 Ks over 54 innings). After a month on the injured list with an oblique injury, he came up empty too many times over his next ten starts (8.03 ERA, 1.785 WHIP, and .327 BAA, and 16 HRs over 52.2 innings). Pittsburgh still kept in the rotation, which led to some improvement down the stretch (4.62 ERA and 1.308 WHIP). Williams lost his way against left-handed batters (.335 with ten HRs over 239 at-bats). His AFB (92.1) had a slight uptick in velocity along with all of his secondary options. Not one of his pitches graded above the league average after having success with his slider (.218 BAA) and four-seamer (.214 BAA) in 2018. His fly-ball rate (40.1) is rising, along with a jump in his HR/FB rate (14.5). Williams lost his confidence in 2019, and his tentativeness led to disaster innings and home runs. He's a better pitcher, but one that doesn't come with excitement. More of follow this year with possible value in a double-start week with favorable matchups. His ADP is 595 in the early draft season.
The Pirates drafted Keller in the second round in the 2014 MLB June Amateur Draft out of high school. Over six seasons in the minors, he went 36-22 with a 3.12 ERA and 556 strikeouts over 539.1 innings. His walk rate (2.8) and K rate (9.4) played well in the minors. Keller solved AA (11-4 with a 2.83 ERA and 121 Ks over 120.2 innings) while needing more work at AAA (10-7 with a 3.98 ERA and 180 Ks over 156 innings). In his second chance at AAA in 2019, he posted a 3.56 ERA and 123 strikeouts over 103.2 innings. His major league career started with five disaster outings over his first nine starts, leading to an 8.29 ERA, 1.868 WHIP, .355 BAA, and six home runs over 38 innings. Keller ended the year with two solid games (three runs over ten innings with 14 strikeouts). His strikeout rate (12.2) was much stronger with Pittsburgh, with a slight regression in his walk rate (3.0). Both righties (.322) and lefties (.380) hit well against him. His AFB (95.5) looked good in velocity but not in success (.461 BAA). Keller has two breaking pitches of value (slider – .200 BAA and curveball – .138 BAA). Fantasy owners in the high stake’s market have him priced like a breakout arm (ADP – 235). Keller failed last year with the Pirates due to the mindset that his fastball could get him out of trouble. He needs better location in the strike zone while still lacking a trusted changeup. His fastball/curveball combination will be dominating at times in 2020. After tossing 151.2 innings in 2019, Keller should be able to reach 180 innings this season. Look for a 3.75 ERA out of the game with a run at 200 strikeouts.
The Pirates gave Brault his best chance to start in his career in 2019. From May 18th to September 1st, he went 4-2 with a 2.97 ERA, 1.322 WHIP, .242 BAA, and 62 strikeouts over 78.2 innings. His WHIP (1.322) over this span didn't support his success in ERA (2.97). After a bad start on September 7th (five runs and eight baseball runners over 5.1 innings), Pittsburgh allowed him to take a massive beating in his next game (ten runs, 13 baserunners, and five HRs over 2.2 innings) while adding more damage in his final two starts (eight runs and 17 baserunners over 10.1 innings). Brault ended the year with risk against right-handed batters (.270 with 12 HRs over 337 at-bats). Over seven seasons in the minors, he had a 37-27 record with a 2.59 ERA and 491 strikeouts over 550 innings. His AFB (92.5) is below the league average. Both his changeup (.204 BAA) and slider (.202 BAA) had success. Probably a better arm than most would give him credit for, but he can't be trusted based on his high walk rate (4.2) and low strikeout rate (7.9). Avoid the dart as it won't stick in the board for long. It's all about better command here.
Pittsburgh signed Kuhl to a one-year $840,000 contract in early January that should put him on the roster in 2020. He missed all of last year with a right elbow injury that required TJ surgery in September of 2018. Over three seasons in the minors, he went 33-17 with a 2.75 ERA and 300 strikeouts over 445 innings. His walk rate (2.1) was elite while struggling with strikeouts (6.1 per nine). In 2017 and 2018 with the Pirates, Kuhl showed more strikeout ability (8.3 per nine), but he forgot how to throw strikes (walk rate – 3.9). Over his final 20 starts in 2017, his arm did invite some intrigue (3.58 ERA and 102 Ks over 108 innings) despite walking 4.3 batters per nine innings. His AFB (96.4 in 2018) has more life than his minor league resume showed based on his low number of strikeouts. Kuhl has a great slider (.185 BAA) and winning low-volume curveball (.114 BAA). His quest for greatness will come with better command of his sinker and finding a changeup. A forgotten arm (ADP – 725) that should win the fifth starting job for Pittsburgh with enough strength in his minor league resume to offer value at times in 2020. If he’s throwing strikes, his arm has a chance at a 3.50 ERA.
Holland appeared to be an upside arm from 2011 and 2013 when he went 38-21 with a 3.98 ERA and 496 strikeouts over 586.1 innings highlighted by four shutouts in 2011. A knee injury in 2014 derailed his career from 2015 to 2017 (5.50 ERA and 212 Ks over 301 innings). In 2018, he climbed his way back up the mountain with the Giants. Even with a poor walk rate (3.5), Derek posted a 3.57 ERA with 169 strikeouts helped by a career-best K rate (8.9). His best value came against lefties (.168 BAA). Holland did have risk vs. RH batters (.262 while allowing all 19 HRs over 497 at-bats). His AFB (92.3) was below his best value in 2011 (95.0). All of his pitches (four-seam – .238, sinker – .245, slider – .246, changeup – .244, and curveball – .200 BAA) played well. In 2019, Holland pitched his way out the starting rotation after seven starts (6.75 ERA, 1.529 WHIP, and ten HRs over 34.2 innings). His high walk rate (5.2) was a big issue. He did have a good run in relief (3.29 ERA, .191 BAA, and 11 Ks over 13.2 innings) for the Cubs late in the year, but one start (seven runs and nine baserunners over two innings) on the final day of the year sent to the free-agent pool in major league baseball. His AFB (92.3) had the velocity as 2018. Only a backend inning if he wins a job. Holland needs to throw strikes to have any role on a major league roster.
Kela pitched well over the first four months of the season as the closer for Texas in 2018. He posted a 3.44 ERA and 44 strikeouts over 36.2 innings while converting 24 of 25 saves. Over his first 14 games with Pittsburgh, Keone allowed one run over 14 innings with 21 strikeouts. The Pirates decided to shut him down in early September with arm fatigue. Last year he struggled over his first 14 games (4.63 ERA, 1.286 WHIP, and three HRs over 11.2 innings), which led to two and half months on the injured list with a right shoulder injury. Other than seven walks over his final 18 innings, Kela looked sharp over the last three months (0.50 ERA, .131 BAA, and 22 Ks). He pitched well against right-handed (.164) and left-handed (.200) batters, but Kela had a bad BB:K ratio (8:8) to lefties. His AFB (96.6) was a step down from 2018 (97.4) while featuring an elite curveball (.130 BAA). Over five years in the majors, Kela went 21-11 with a 3.23 ERA, 263 strikeouts, and 28 SVs over 214.2 innings. His ADP (202) seems fair, but he’s pitched under 55 innings in each of the past four seasons. Kela will start the year as the closer for Pittsburgh while his final results will be tied to the health of his right shoulder.
Crick struggled to throw strikes in his seven seasons in the minors (walk rate - 6.0), which led to him repeating AA in three different years. He has a career 3.37 ERA in the minors with 540 strikeouts in 478.2 innings, but he had tough sledding at AA (4.19 ERA and 6.7 walks per nine). The move to the bullpen at AAA in 2017 seemed to unlock some of his command issues. Over 24 games, Crick had a 2.76 ERA and 39 strikeouts over 29.1 innings while having the lowest walk rate (4.0) of his career. In 2018, his command had further growth (3.4 walks per nine) despite a weak first-pitch strike rate (52). Last year, Crick reverted to his minor league resume in walks (6.4 per nine) while adding disaster in home runs allowed (1.8 per nine). His strikeout rate (11.2) did push even higher. He regressed against righties (.154 in 2018 and .235 in 2019) while improving vs. left-handed batters (.255 BAA in 2018 and .210 in 2019). Crick has a plus fastball (95.5 – one MPH lower than 2018) with his best value coming from his slider (.128 BAA). His command paints him a trick rather than a treat. He looks miles away from the 9th inning, but Crick may fall into the job by default if Keone Kela goes down with an injury.
Over six seasons in the minors, Escobar went 33-24 with a 3.81 ERA and 487 strikeouts over 498 innings. Last year Pittsburgh transitioned him to the bullpen, which led to a 3.29 ERA and 72 strikeouts over 68.1 innings between High A and AAA. His failure in the minors comes from a high walk rate (4.2 – 5.0 in 2019). In his first chance in the majors, Escobar had no success (7.94 ERA) while allowing 14 baserunners over 5.2 innings. Hs AVB (95.2) graded well while adding in a changeup and curveball. Live arm when and if he starts throwing more strikes. For now, a weaker version of Kyle Crick.