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Karl Fredericks Details Creative Differences With WWE and Shawn Michaels Over Eddy Thorpe Character (Exclusive)

Looking back at a frustrating yet satisfying run with WWE, Karl Fredericks is prepared to write the next chapter of his career his way.
Sid Pullar III|
PRODUCE NYC

Karl Fredericks has been through a year-and-a-half transitional period, ending his run in WWE after spending just over two years with the promotion.

Following his WWE release in May 2025, Fredericks, better known as Eddy Thorpe on the NXT brand, returned to the independent scene and will be curating the upcoming PRODUCE "Skoden" show in Brooklyn, New York.

Celebrating this show on Indigenous Peoples' Day, Fredericks was able to reflect on his issues with how WWE presented his Indian culture with his Eddy Thorpe character, which relied heavily on tropes and stereotypes in a way that didn't fit the person he truly was.

Reflecting on his early days at the WWE Performance Center, the former NJPW dojo graduate tried to present himself differently, which earned him praise early on.

"I got promo class.' I write my promo and I get there 30 minutes early because, like every time, there's no footage of me in there; it shouldn't be, maybe more than once or twice, where I have to stop and start a promo over, like definitely not," Karl Fredericks told The Takedown On SI.

"We did one in front of Corey Graves, a special guest one day. He said, 'that was f---ing phenomenal, I have no notes for you.' John Cena, 'that was f---ing phenomenal, I have no notes for you.' Like, I wanted to be that.

"I was serious about this s--- and then also I thought it was a way to show them how I talk, how I want to talk, the character I'm trying to develop and I'm cutting promos on resources and the things that have been done to my people over resources."

Making his debut at the start of 2023, the former Eddy Thorpe had immediate frustration with the presentation of his character in his introductory vignettes on NXT.

"I had two or three meetings, at least three with Shawn (Michaels), probably two with him and the head writer, where I'm like, 'this is what I want it to be and like I need to be a f---ing person, a normal person,' you know what I mean, like, I need it to be grounded, this that and the other thing, but it was never that," Fredericks reflected on these early months in NXT. "So then, like, I damn near spent two years in the forest, out in the wilderness doing pre-tapes."

"I was always getting good reactions as a babyface, whether or not the internet, which is crazy to me that these guys sit there on Twitter in Gorilla, like those f---ing opinions matter. It makes me so sad knowing that is how it is, but like, the guys in the crowd, 'I don't get this Indian stuff, I don't like all this Indian stuff' and rightfully so, I get it."

A discontent with who Karl Fredericks is compared to the Eddy Thorpe character

Eddy Thorpe, Trick Williams, Oba Femi
WWE NXT New Years Evil | WWE.co

Fredericks even went into detail about how difficult it was to even use social media as his character because of the things he was doing on television. The traits of Eddy Thorpe did not highlight who he is as an individual outside the squared circle.

"I wasn't posting on my socials because my guy is out praying in the forest, that's what he's doing, you know what I mean, I don't know," Karl said. "Here I am, who I am as a human being, like, been a musician my whole life. I made my own, I got a new theme song, I'm coming out to starting Monday. I'm a producer, I'm a DJ, I'm so much more than an Indian and then in those terms, I don't know what that means. Like, what does that mean? No one can answer like I can hardly answer it.

"But yeah, I spent two years out there before I ever got the mic in the ring. Very first words out of my mouth are 'me and my people have been through enough.' It was all just surface and then the part of the broader conversation that the thing that unfortunately needs to be said, but, like, this conversation is so much bigger than pro wrestling.

"This is not a case of these are bad people, these are bad, racist people. No, these are just ignorant, racist people."

Looking back on when his frustrations were reaching a boiling point, Fredericks remembered how the real-life events of immigration targeting Indigenous people shifted how he felt about his WWE stint.

"There's like a handful of things that happened, like some benchmark moments, things that had happened behind the scenes that had beaten me down pretty good and like started to take the wind out from under me, and then in real life, what's actually happening in the world, I have immigration coming at my people," Fredericks stated. "Immigration, the whole situation furious about it, period. It shouldn't be happening the way it is regardless, but then, they're rounding up the Indians; what are we talking about?

"There's all of this stuff that's just, but these people, one, don't know, don't care, and most people just want to put their heads in the sand about stuff as well. For me, man, there's no happy life in that. There's no, like, I was conflicted morally, spiritually, everything across the board, personally, you know."

Fredericks looked back on his final few months and how the cracks really started to form in his relationship with the company as well as with management overall.

"From the tail end of my babyface run is when I came to them begging like, 'please let me turn heel, please, gotta f---ing do something' and that was going well, but then like these other things started happening and then behind-the-scenes, there was too much for me to overcome successfully," Fredericks admitted.

Over his final year, Karl started to feel like he was fighting a losing battle and things were all coming to an end as the company started to show their political alignment.

"So for the last 10, 11 months, dude, I was fighting for my life, like, not doing well. It all genuinely like culminated to me; if it was gonna happen already on that Friday very likely could have, but I'm not sold, it could be either way, but like the week before the cuts happened like, I messaged Shawn on Friday like because I had a crash out, not crash out, breakdown in tears to my fiancé at our house because I can't," Karl Fredericks said.

"It was the same day I gotta deal with this s--- happening with immigration, and I gotta hear Paul Levesque (Triple H) go on an interview when asked about Trump and the thing is, 'this guy's ability to garner heat,' some stupid, you know what I mean, shameful outlook to have."

Finally, things started to truly reach a definitive end in the week just before Fredericks' eventual WWE release in May 2025. Before he had a legitimate breakdown, Karl reached out to Shawn Michaels to let him know about the issues and feelings he was having.

"It was, it was just too much to do the schtick I was doing, so we had a show in Orlando on Saturday. I messaged him on Friday, like Friday morning, like, 'Shawn, just wanted to let you know that I'm not in a good place, that I won't be at the show tomorrow, I can't work like this,'" Fredericks elaborated.

"I said, I knew I wasn't on TV Tuesday and I know Friday they book the show, so I was just like, 'I really need to talk to you' and in my mind, I'm gonna, and all of my talks with him, in credit, I thought, what I thought was a pretty good relationship, like I talk to him just like I'm talking to you, but just with way more swear words because we're wrestlers. But I would come to him like, 'Shawn, this is what I think, this is what I feel."

This interaction with HBK led to Fredericks feeling disappointed in the NXT head after feeling like they had a good connection and communication.

"It's like I don't wanna be Eddy, I can't be Eddy anymore, like I can't," Fredericks stated. "I don't want to do this; I don't want to be here, and at that time, those relationships with the other people- the 'important people' to have relationships with- were gone, and also people I don't want to have a f---ing relationship with. Shawn's not one of those people that I'm referring to, which is why by the end, like, I was very disappointed in Shawn man-to-man.

"So yeah, I'm like, 'Get through TV Tuesday, get through the show before you worry about me. Show's more important." He's like, 'okay' and then after that, I'm not in a good space. I'm telling him I'm not going to work tomorrow; I'm not going to the shows. Not a word from him - no 'are you okay'; there was no humanity in that connection and then I get a call from medical like 10 minutes after that phone call."

The former WWE star revealed that medical staff conducted a wellness check after his text conversation with Michaels that rubbed him the wrong way due to the way he responded to his request to talk.

"Part of it was protocol to cover ass, but at the same time, I'm like, 'oh s---, nah, this guy cares about me, this guy does care about me," Fredericks explained. "So I just let him know like that day too, 'hey, you know I'm good, man, just like got some stuff going on work-wise that I need to talk to Shawn and get it off my chest, but I'm like, good."

"Then, they sent me like, 'here's a resource of another number at some point if you can't get hold of us,' which I did appreciate, but later that night, I was like furious because I remember thinking, I was like, 'damn, so these people think I'm at risk of offing myself and Shawn didn't have it in him to be like, 'I hope you're okay, are you okay."

After a weekend to think things over, Karl found himself at peace with the situation, but he needed to have that chat with Michaels to get everything off his chest before wanting to leave the company for good.

"So Wednesday comes, I'm like, I'm at peace with it. I just gotta be gone, like I'm not doing this, I don't want to do this, blah, blah, blah," The former NXT star further explained another call from medical. "So medical's like, 'any update?' I'm like, 'Great man, I'll feel better after I talk to Shawn, but yeah, I'm doing good. I'll feel better after I have this meeting.' Get off the phone with them, 10 minutes later, Shawn texts me, not 'how are you,' but it was just, 'any update on how you're feeling?'

"Me knowing that after medical they talked to me, went straight to him and said, 'he said he's good; he said he just needs to talk to you.' So the lack of humanity in that, I'm already like, sure, like, so then I immediately said, "Feeling good, I'll feel better after we talk' and then he said, "It will have to wait till Monday, as I have you in a battle royal next Tuesday.' So now I'm thinking, 'you motherf---ers think I'm at risk of offing myself, and now you want to push this talk another five days."

"So he said, 'Does that work for you?' and I said, 'I want to leave, Shawn.' He said, 'Okay, I'll get right on that.' I said, 'Thanks.' That's Wednesday. Friday comes, she (his fiancè) gets her call first, and then I get mine."

Fredericks credited his fiancé and former WWE star, Charlie (formerly Dakota Kai), with the support she provided when he needed it most.

"If I didn't have Charlie (Dakota Kai), man, like, through that, especially through that whole time, right from when we met, there was always just something," Karl said. "So imagine if I was in that state of mind, so I'm furious."

The lack of transparency from Shawn Michaels' part bothered Fredericks at the time, considering the relationship that he thought he had cultivated with the WWE Hall of Famer during his time in the company

"I'm very inclined to think this at the end of Shawn's cowardice and the spirit of a coward because the way he handled things when he had to give real news, big news, things like that," Fredericks reflected. "He fumbled around his words in person, and this isn't a comment, joke about the eye thing, not looking me in the eye, not looking at me, not communicating with me like a man, not like a good man."

"He was just kicking the can - oh yeah, we'll talk Monday - knowing I was getting released Friday, so that's why I'm like, because even then, by that first night, whether he doesn't care and I know he's busy and all, but not checking. The lack of humanity on my end of, like, whether or not I was okay, I'm like, yeah, these guys don't care, man.

"It was easy, even that first day when I sent him the text like, 'Hey Shawn, I'm not going to work tomorrow, we need to talk,' that was hard to send that text, but brother when I tell you, it was like the low-52 filter was taken off on my life. Whatever the pressure but everything about it was like immediately gone, and I knew that's what I needed to do, period; that I was making the right move."

Despite how things ended with the promotion, the former WWE NXT talent is still grateful for the people he met and the experience he was able to have in his two years with the company.

"It's nothing I dwell at all, and even we talk about the clickbait guys, they won't click the part where I say this is a bigger issue than WWE; these aren't just, like, evil, racist people," Karl looked back on his run. "This is not the case. They won't clip like, I became a better human being in that building.

"Like meeting coaches like Brookside and Steve Corino, Fit Finlay, who I've had a relationship with his sons through work and stuff, spending time with Fit. Terry Taylor, I got to be in his, he's like the top class.

"Terry was there in WCW, but like guys like Corino and Brookside, the human beings that they are, the men that they are as human beings, as professional wrestlers. Whether it be through their work, their passion for this, how they give back, how they treat every one of those kids- you know what I mean- I got to spend time around guys like that and learn from guys like that."

Continuing this new chapter in his career, Karl Fredericks is set to compete and curate the upcoming PRODUCE: Volume 5 event on October 12. He sees this as a chance to complete his transition after his WWE release and celebrate his culture on Indigenous Peoples' Day.

"It's a really great opportunity and a really cool thing we get to do here to run a show on Indigenous Peoples' Day," Karl said. "Even if it was, even if I just seen the show happening, just see Nyla (Rose) on the show, I'd be like, 'tight,' you know what I mean? There's not a whole ton of representation out there, especially that is lucky enough to make it to the masses."

"On one hand, excited for that opportunity. On the other hand, it's like I'm also on this transitionary period of trying to step out and forward and away from the whole, you know, 'Indian first, Eddy Thorpe wrestler, human being second' feeling of all of that stuff, but it didn't take any convincing or anything and once I was given the rundown of how PRODUCE is doing all these things and the collaborations.

"This is me finally turning the page on this chapter. It's been a year and a half of this transition and this limbo I've been and stepping out of that to go out and prove myself all over again and to start new and to build this whole thing back up again from ground zero."

Karl Fredericks will be competing against fellow former WWE NXT star Javi at PRODUCE: Volume 5 "SKODEN" on Monday, October 12, in Brooklyn, New York. Tickets for the event can be purchased at Eventbrite and fans can order the show on MyAEW.com.

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Published
Sid Pullar III
SID PULLAR III

Sid Pullar III is a lifelong pro wrestling fan who has been covering the business for the past eight years. Starting off as a podcaster and creator of the Tru Heel Heat Wrestling YouTube channel, he made the transition to news and feature writing with Sportskeeda and WrestleTalk in 2020. His passion for the industry has been documented with over 3,000 videos on YouTube and 8,000 written pieces across multiple outlets, such as Fightful, WrestleTalk, The Takedown and more. Follow him on X @TruHeelSP3

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