Former Husker Sarah Pavan on John Cook's Retirement, Dani Busboom Kelly, and Podcasting About Volleyball

Volleyball State welcomed former Husker Sarah Pavan to the show this week for a wide-ranging conversation about her career, covering volleyball, and an incredibly newsy offseason for her alma mater.

Sarah Pavan during a beach volleyball match in the Tokyo Olympics in 2021. / Yukihito Taguchi-Imagn Images

On this week's Volleyball State, Jeff Sheldon and Lincoln Arneal welcomed former Husker Sarah Pavan to the podcast to discuss the newsy offseason for Nebraska volleyball, when she knew it was time to retire, and what it's like covering volleyball now.

Below is a lightly edited transcript of selected discussions.

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"We need to be honest at the same time"

Jeff: For our listeners who maybe haven't been able to listen to your show yet, give us a little bit of a flavor of what it's like. Are you talking about mostly college? You talking about pros? How's it sort of set up? 

Sarah: So, in looking at the volleyball podcasting landscape, we realized that the majority of shows do a lot of interviews and things like that with athletes and coaches. And they are a teaching platform sometimes and we found that a gap in the volleyball podcast like market was kind of like an analysis type of show. I love watching ESPN and the debriefs after games and seeing how they break them down and thoughts like that. So, I was like, “there's nobody doing this. I think it would be cool to do it for volleyball.”

And so, we kind of do breakdowns and analysis and what is going on in the sport from college to professionally, both domestically and overseas. And once VNL starts up, the international side.

Lincoln: You cover a wide gamut too. You talk European professional leagues. You're talking the men collegiate game. You're talking about the United States professional game too. And you also talk a lot about the women's college game as well. How much more volleyball are you watching because of the podcast? Or were you already this immersed into the volleyball world in just in your regular day-to-day life?

Nebraska and Penn State face off on Nov. 29, 2024, in State College, Pa. / Dan Rainville / USA TODAY NETWORK via Imagn Images

Sarah: I would say we're watching significantly more now. We have always been really into the NCAA women's side of things and we've been really into VNL. We would follow NCAA men. We'd follow the leagues, just cause of former teammates and things like that. But I would say since we started, we have become much more invested and a lot of our time is spent watching volleyball now.

Jeff: You know, we sort of noticed the same thing when we were kicking around the idea of starting a podcast about volleyball. There's some educational aspects to it. We know there's a lot of fans, you know, particularly of Nebraska, who really liked the sport, but maybe don't know that much about it. And we are certainly not at a coaching or a playing level of expertise, but we're able to explain a few things.

I think one of the other parts of this space that was kind of missing, and you and your show fill that very nicely, is the ability to be critical of play and point out some ways where people are falling short. And I think that there is maybe a little bit of a tendency to go lighter on women's volleyball players than there would say to football or men's basketball players. But you're able to point out areas that need to be improved. Have you caught any kind of negative feedback about that?

Sarah: Yeah. Simple answer is yes. It is a pattern that I have seen in volleyball as a sport in general, but particularly on the women's side is it's very positive, which is great. You know, we want to highlight what athletes are doing well. We want to promote the teams and the athletes that have good followings. But I think we need to be honest at the same time.

And so it has rubbed some people the wrong way. Getting feedback, “you're supposed to be growing the sport. Why are you talking like this?” And it's like, you need some education. Not everything is perfect. And I'm not saying the athletes aren't trying; they're working hard. They're trying. But I think from like a strategy perspective, people need to understand, because volleyball is not well understood from a strategic or tactical perspective by the general population. So, yes, it may be critical, but I think it's a learning experience for the listeners to understand what is actually happening.

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“My body had kind of betrayed me”

Lincoln: How did you know it was time for [retirement] and how difficult the decision was that for you to make saying, “playing days are finally done?”

Sarah: I'm somebody who takes a long time to come to decisions, but once I make them, I don't look back. I think evaluating the landscape; finishing my career on the beach side and evaluating the landscape of beach volleyball in Canada and the future. It was a grind and you know, I actually tore my meniscus in January of last year. Had to have surgery and then like fighting back from that while trying to qualify for the Olympics; it was not ideal. And you know, a lot of life stuff had been happening on the side. Pretty serious stuff. And I think my life experience, my life perspective, had kind of evolved and while at my healthiest, I was still very capable of playing at a very high level. There’s more to life. And the sport had given me so, so much in such a long career that I just felt like it was time.

And like the injury was the first time in my life that my body had kind of betrayed me. And I think it was kind of a wakeup call of like, “I've used my body as a tool for so long and I've done so much and put it through so much. I think it's giving me a sign that like it's time.”

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What would you do if you were commissioner of all of volleyball?

Lincoln: There's two currently professional leagues. There could be a third professional league with athletes unlimited in there as well, too. If you were named commissioner of all professional volleyball in North America, what would that look like? What would you change and how would you set it up?

Outside hitter Megan Courtney-Lush spikes the ball during a Columbus Fury game against the Omaha Supernovas in February 2024. / Courtney Hergesheimer/Columbus Dispatch / USA TODAY NETWORK via Imagn Images

Sarah: Oh dear. Wow.

Jeff: We've just given you an incredible amount of power!

Sarah: Honestly? We’ve had discussions with it, because people submit a ton of questions on our podcast. So, we've had to think about things like this. In an ideal world, because there's so many leagues in this country, I would probably structure the North American leagues, like they do the European ones. Where you have your A level, B level, C level. Basically, the way overseas works is if you come last in your division, you get demoted.

Jeff: Yeah, promotion relegation; I’m all about it.

Sarah: Yeah, I love that. The styles and the formats of the leagues would obviously have to be similar. Like the way that they operate now is just so different that it would be tricky. But I think having the promotion and relegation would just really keep it interesting. And then you would see so much more excitement and investment for every single match. 

So, you've kind of seen the leagues differentiate themselves as far as level goes like already. If that were to remain the case, it would be really cool if the winner of the PVF moves up to LOVB and then the like last place team in LOVB goes down and then it would just be so entertaining, I think.

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“I don't think that that expectation intimidates her”

Lincoln: John Cook retired this year. Were you surprised by the timing of the retirement? Were you caught off guard when that news broke?

Nebraska volleyball head coach Dani Busboom Kelly and former coach John Cook. / Dylan Widger-Imagn Images

Sarah: Okay. Yes, I was surprised at the timing. But let me tell you, I was watching LOVB Omaha. I was watching one of the Omaha pro teams playing. And Dani was in the crowd. And I was like, “there's a reason she's here.” And I had thought for years, when Coach Cook retires, he will give the program to Dani. 100%.

So when I saw her there in like a random January match, I was like, something is up. But I didn't expect the announcement to come so soon. I figured that he would want to win one more. But then in thinking about it more, I think he really thought, and everybody thought, that he would win one with Lexi Rodriguez. And then when that didn't happen, it was like, OK, kind of time to move on. But Rachel Holloway actually was the one who messaged me because she saw the news before I did. And she messaged me. She's like, “look at this!” And we were both just shocked.

Jeff: You had mentioned Dani earlier – that she seemed kind of like the long-time natural choice – What do you remember about her? What do you know about her that makes you think that, “obviously this is the person to take over the program?”

Louisville head coach Dani Busboom Kelly instructs her players during the 2024 NCAA championship match against Penn State. / Sam Upshaw Jr./Courier Journal / USA TODAY NETWORK via Imagn Images

Sarah: Well, a lot of reasons. Just to see how she built Louisville into what it is. At such a young age, she has clearly proven herself to be capable of growing and maintaining a perennial powerhouse program. Secondly, just she's no [BS]. I think, you know, which is perfectly suited for a program of Nebraska's stature and prowess.

Nebraska expects to win. And I think that that can be intimidating for a lot of people, but she experienced it as a player, which the expectation was always to win. And to walk into that, she's already familiar. And so I don't think that that expectation intimidates her. Being from Nebraska, just the connection with the community and the university and volleyball fans; aside from the on-court stuff, which she has proven herself more than capable of just who she is as a person in her leadership and her communication style is just like winner.

Lincoln: You played with her. Did you, did you sense that as a player that she kind of had the right approach to make a successful coach? Is that something she developed and kind of grew into?

Sarah: My freshman year. I was just like eyes wide open. “Let's survive.” But I think the thing that really highlighted her character for me was when she was told she would be a libero of the team. She had started as a setter for three years and then all of a sudden it was just like, “Thank you so much, but you're going to be a libero now.” And to see her response, it was both very human, but very mature. And to see how she was able to put her ego aside for the good of the team and how much of a factor she was able to be in that season in a new position. She gained so much respect for me in how she handled that.

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Watch the rest of the interview below and also get Jeff and Lincoln's thoughts on Nebraska's spring season, transfer portal talk, and more!

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