The Crossover: A.D. Won't Save L.A. & Harden Sours On Brooklyn
In this story:
Mannix and Beck discuss their reactions to the NBA's changes to All-Star weekend, as well as why Anthony Davis returning from his MCL injury won't suddenly give the Lakers the boost they desperately need, the reports that James Harden may be testing the waters of free agency during the offseason, and why the Pistons' Jerami Grant is probably the biggest name that could be moved at the trade deadline
The following is an automatically generated transcript from The Crossover NBA podcast. Listen to the full episode on podcast players everywhere or on SI.com.
Chris Mannix: Welcome back to the Crossover NBA podcast, Chris Mannix, and Howard Beck. What's happening Beck?
Howard Beck: Uh, you know, I'm just trying to calm myself down from all the excitement about the new format for the Rising Stars Challenge at All-Star weekend.
Chris Mannix: I was going to ask you about that, the new format that will include four players from the G League Ignite as the NBA tries to incentivize young players to sign with Ignite, facing competition. I dunno, like every time I see some tweak to the All-Star Game, I just kind of shrug. The All-Star Game is what it is. Like it's not going anywhere because the ratings are still too good for a network like ESPN or Turner to want to walk away from it. It's also not going to measurably improve because you add incentives to it, it's just not. You're going to get three-and-a-half quarters of really bad basketball. And if the games close at the end, you'll have guys step up and try to win it. But there's really nothing that's going to change any of that.
Howard Beck: No, and the same goes for the rising stars challenge. What we used to call the rookie sophomore game, which is, you know, on Friday night and All-Star Friday night is, you know, dismal to, uh, sometimes possibly slightly entertaining. I mean, you know, the celebrity game, the rising stars game. I don't mind the NBA innovating on something like this because Friday night, in particular, is not a must-watch event. The Sunday game will always get its share of viewers and Saturday night certainly because you never know what year you might get a spectacular dunk contest. Aaron Gordon vs. Zach LaVine kind of thing, but that's, you know, once every four or five years, and then the other years tend to be duds, but you know, the showcase of All-Star weekend kind of sells itself. I think for guys like you and I have just seen way too many of these. Um, it's all a little old hat. So I don't mind, like, I don't mind the NBA messing with, especially like the rookie sophomore game, which every few years they try to do something, you might as well. And bringing in the G league guys. I don't know if it does much for the fans. It certainly does, to your point, raise the profile of those G league Ignite players, which yes, is an extra incentive for them to go to the G league instead of Overtime Elite or somewhere else. So maybe I'll watch this time. I can't remember the last time I turned on the Friday night, All-Star stuff.
Chris Mannix: Nah, I haven't either. One thing I've campaigned on for years now as a way to make All-Star weekend better is to eliminate the skills challenge and make a 'king of the court' contest, because if there's one thing that can get NBA players motivated to participate, it's the title of being the best one-on-one player in the league. I mean, this is a one-on-one league Howard, where everything eventually devolves to isolation at the end of games, and you want to be known as the best one-on-one player. You're never going to get LeBron in a dunk contest or really any high profile guys in a dunk contest anymore. You might be able to lure them. The LeBron's, the Durant's, all the top guys, Giannis, uh, into a king of the court competition. So I'd like to see that added it to the mix.
Howard Beck: That would be fun. It's an interesting question because the guys who should be the greatest Dunkers among the stars consistently turn down the dunk contest. I would worry on some level, maybe this would be like that, where you and I might want to see Durant and Harden go at each other or Curry and Chris Paul or whatever else, get, you know, any number of incredible scorers somewhere from the top 20, however many you get and have them go at it. I wonder how many would risk it. You know, just as they think the dunk contest is a risk to them. ' what if I screw up a dunk how does that affect my image?' is it going to be the same thing with a 'king of the court' kind of competition? Um, but it's worth a shot. I mean, I like it. I like the idea of it. I mean, listen, I would certainly want to watch that much more, than I watch the skills competition, which I don't actually watch.
Chris Mannix: Look, I think blowing a dunk contest, it probably makes players feel a little worse losing king of the court. I feel like if Harden is faced off against Durant in a king-of-the-court competition like this guy's going to play hard. And it's going to be a moment that you'll want to watch.
Howard Beck: If you can get them to do it.
Chris Mannix: If you can get them do it. I think you might. Maybe not the first year, but I think as time goes on, if you are labeling this player as the best one-on-one player in the league, courtesy of winning a king of the court competition at All-Star, I think they might actually do it.
All right. Let's talk about things going on right now. As we record this on Tuesday afternoon. Anthony Davis is just hours away from returning to the Los Angeles Lakers lineup. Davis has been gone for about a month. In that time, the Lakers have not played particularly well. So we'll ask you this Howard, before I give my take on it. Do you think Anthony Davis and his return can save the Lakers?
Howard Beck: It's a lot to put on Anthony Davis, a quick review. They, uh, have had 15 games so far with LeBron, Russ and Anthony Davis together, they went eight and seven in those games. They've played 291 minutes they're a plus 22 in those minutes are plus 3.6 points per 100 possessions. That's okay. I mean, it's not dominance, you don't assemble three superstars to be plus 36 or plus 3.6 per 100. Um, but look, if there's going to be any saving this season, it does have to start with Anthony Davis being back, being healthy, being the hub of an elite defense that they have yet to re-establish. And look the less Dwight Howard, Deandre Jordan, whatever else, that center, the better. And I was looking at this earlier. I think Anthony Davis, before he went down was playing like 70 or 75% of his minutes at center anyway. But their best lineups are going to be Anthony Davis at center. And so they should be better defensively overall with him back there. They should be obviously more potent offensively with him. But he's not going to fix the rest of what has ailed them, right? Like Anthony Davis cannot make Russell Westbrook a better shooter, or a more disciplined shooter. And he's not gonna make Russel a better defender, even though he can help erase some of Russ's mistakes or indifference. Um, and he's not gonna magically fix the rest of the roster, where the Lakers just have too many old guys and not enough wing defenders and, you know, yada yada. So they'll be better. Better enough? Uh, that remains to be seen. We haven't even had enough of a sample size I don't think, to fairly judge what a fully functioning Lakers team can do. Um, but I think we've seen enough to be skeptical.
Chris Mannix: Look, this is not to your point, a conquering hero returning to the Lakers rotation. To add to some of the numbers you threw out there. The Lakers, when Davis went down were 16 and 14, they were the six seed at that time in the Western conference. And at that time they had the league's easiest schedule. So they were 16 and 14 with the NBA's easiest schedule at that point, they were 20th in net rating, 10th in defensive rating and 24th in offensive rating. To move it a little further towards Davis, his points per 36 minutes are the lowest he's averaged since he turned 20 years old, all the way back in his early seasons in New Orleans. So he's not playing well this year. His three point numbers have been abismal, but that's, that's a different conversation. So him coming back, is no guarantee that the Lakers turn it on over the remaining games on this East coast road trip. And somehow start to put together the kind of run that makes you believe they are, you know, a legitimate title contender in the Western conference. That being said, Anthony Davis, he's kind of the only thing that could save the Lakers. Like I keep going on Twitter and I see like these Russell Westbrook for JohnWall trade rumors. Like how does that help? Like granted, Westbrook does not fit, but John Wall who has not played a minute this season, I think he's only played like 113 games over the last four plus years. How is he going to make you a title contender? Like, how is he going to be a more significant piece to your team than Russell Westbrook? Westbrook's not going anywhere, it's as simple as that, he is going to be part of this team for at least the remainder of the season, Kendrick Nunn aint saving anything. He's not. Like he's just not. Kendrick Nunn is a good player and was fine down in Miami, but this is not ... I don't want to use the phrase, conquering hero again, but it's the same thing. It's like, this is not a guy that's going to come in and make you markedly better. He will deepen your rotation, that's a value. He's a younger player, more athletic, that's a value. He's another Playmaker, that's a value. But he will not move the needle in a measurable way. Davis can, if Davis can somehow rediscover the player he was in the bubble, and was at times during last season, yeah, he can push the Lakers to that next level. Because Anthony Davis at center with LeBron James at power forward and a whole bunch of shooters out there. If you're gonna mix in Westbrook into that group, that's a good team. Like that's a good team, but the problem is Davis. Like I talk to coaches about this all the time Howard, and one I was with, uh, just a couple of nights ago, an assistant coach, and he's like look, The problem in LA is not Frank Vogel. The problem in LA is not Russell Westbrook. The problem is that Davis came in and he wasn't in the type of shape he needed to be in, and he wasn't physically ready to play at the highest of levels when the season started. That was this coach opinion, uh, who had gone up against Davis recently. So I'm not sure what he could have done with a lower leg injury over the last. You know, four plus weeks to get himself in better shape or sharper going into this return, but he's the guy. Like it's gotta be him that saves the Lakers. I'm not sure he can do it, but it's gotta be him.
Howard Beck: Yeah. And listen, functionally, there's still this concern where Anthony Davis at center will give them their best defensive lineups for sure.
And their most, uh, I think versatile lineups when it comes to switching and just being able to respectably guard anybody. So that part's fine. On the offensive side though, Westbrook is a non shooter and Anthony Davis, though, we think of him as this versatile new age, big man. This season he's shooting 18% from three 18%. That's a wild number. That's a wild number. So you have two non-shooters on the floor. If defenses aren't going to respect Anthony Davis' three point shot. And he's never been a great three point shooter. But he's been a decent three point shooter in the past, and an effective one. And he certainly was in the bubble. But if he's shooting 18% from three and Russ's shooting 20 whatever percent, he's probably shooting from three, haven't looked it up recently. You have two non shooters. And while Davis still is a market upgrade from Dwight Howard and Deandre Jordan, it is still creating spacing issues. And that's still a difficulty for them to try to overcome, unless Anthony Davis can raise that. And maybe, you know what, maybe that was the aberration. It was a fairly small sample size before he went down. Um, you know, there's at least a track record to suggest that Anthony Davis can be a much more effective three point shooter than he's been. And obviously, you know, look that would, that would boost them quite a bit.
Chris Mannix: Yeah, well, welcome back Anthony Davis, on Thursday, you get to try to bang with Joel Embid for a certain number of minutes in that Sixers game. On Friday, you can run up and down and get back into shape chasing the Hornets around, uh, down in Charlotte. So, he's coming back at a time when the Lakers, they're walking right into the teeth of the schedule, and as much as anything that I'm looking forward towards the second half of the season, Howard, I'm looking forward to seeing what anthony Davis has in him. And if he could pull the Lakers out of this by becoming the old Anthony Davis.
All right, let's talk about whatever's going on in Brooklyn right now. Uh, it's been an interesting week when it comes to reporting on James Harden and the Brooklyn nets. Earlier this week you had, or I guess over the weekend, uh, you had the athletic reporting that the Sixers were going to, or planning on holding on to Ben Simmons through the trade deadline to take a swing at acquiring James Harden, presumably via some kind of sign and trade or whatever mechanics you need to make a deal like that work, I'm not exactly certain. Uh, that was followed up by Bleacher Report saying that James Harden is not all that happy in Brooklyn. That he doesn't like living in Brooklyn, which I'm sure you didn't want to hear Howard, as a Brooklynite yourself.
Howard Beck: I am personally offended.
Chris Mannix: He's going to hit free agency though. You know, it was couched with the, uh, you know, notion that he could go back to Brooklyn and wind up signing there. Um, what do you make of all that? Like from the Philadelphia side, uh, are you surprised to hear Harden may have some interest in leaving Brooklyn? That he's disenchanted with what's been going on with Kyrie Irving, what's your takeaway?
Howard Beck: Of the various potential motives for James Harden to leave the nets, whether he's going to Philly or elsewhere, um, among the things that were in Jake Fischer's report today, yes, there was the part about maybe he doesn't like living in New York so much after all his years in Houston where obviously you live out in the suburbs in Houston, you can probably have a big old mansion and, you know all the space in the world and whatever, and new York's different it isn't built for everybody. And, uh, since the Nets moved to Brooklyn from Jersey like that's been one of those challenges. I think for guys who would rather have a suburban lifestyle, you're going to have a big commute then. If you want to live in Brooklyn, it's got its perks, but you know, not everybody's wired to live in Brooklyn. So maybe it hasn't fit James Harden. But that's not the most interesting, uh, potential motive for him leaving that was in that story. What Jake Fischer also reported was that Harden is not real thrilled with this whole Kyrie Irving situation. And I don't think that should be surprising, but I think it's the first time that anybody, if correct me, if I'm wrong and maybe I've missed something out there, apologies if I have. I think that's the first time anybody has reported sources saying that James Harden or anybody on the nets is put out about the Kyrie Irving situation. It should not be surprising. Um, but it is the kind of thing where the kind of general impression was they're just kind of riding it out and they support him personally and they understand blah, blah, blah. But listen, Durant's out for an extended period now. A lot is falling on James Harden's shoulders. He only has Kyrie Irving for road games, but not home games. Like, you know, reasonably, it should bother James Harden and Kevin Durant and all the rest of them. That Kyrie Irving is only playing road games. Of course it should. But this is the first time we've seen the cracks in that facade of, oh, we're fine, everything's fine. We're cool with it. And Kyrie's, you know, we respect what he's got to do for whatever reasons he's got. So that to me, Chris is really interesting. And we know when James Harden left the door open before the season, he didn't sign the extension. There was all the reason in the world to say, well, going to free agency is the smarter route. Financially, you can sign a bigger deal then. The idea of him wanting to be a free agent and just test his options cause he's never really been a free agent. Part of it, I think we, we downplayed, but as things unfold and this happens sometimes, you know, the season takes a turn and suddenly it's not just, oh, I want to resign for the most years in the most money, you know? And so, and I'm just doing this for financial reasons. It starts to be, I like the fact that I might have other options because maybe it's not going so well here. And it's an interesting decision, because, and I'm curious to hear what you think of this aspect of it, but if Harden's staying to play another X number of years with Kevin Durant and presumably Kyrie Irving, who can also opt out. Versus playing X number of years with a younger, but also an injury history with Joel Embiid.
That's an interesting, uh, Choice for James Harden, you know, where do you think you've got the best chance to win a title or multiple titles, something he does not have yet on his resume. Are you better off hitching your wagon to Kevin Duran or to Joel Embiid?
Chris Mannix: Well, there's also the Daryl Morey part of all this, you know, James Harden has seven years of experience playing for a franchise run by Daryl Morey. And he knows that in Morey. There is an executive that will do whatever it takes to win at all costs and is willing to kind of build your franchise around him. Now, I don't think Harden is foolish enough to think that he goes to Philly and it becomes his team, it's Joel Embid's team. Like he is the Philadelphia 76ers. But there's gotta be some comfort in going to an organization where you know how things are ran from the top down. So that kind of struck me as being an advantage for Philadelphia. I wasn't surprised to read that Harden was frustrated by the Irving situation because I believe everybody on that team is frustrated by that situation. When Kevin Duran publicly says, you know, we support him. It's his choice. Like, no way, like deep down, Durant has to feel disappointed by what's going on with Kyrie Irving. Um, he's doing the right thing by not putting into the water supply and make it adversarial with Irving, but there's no doubt that, you know, not having a player for more than 50% of the remaining games is problematic for this team and the potential to not have that player in pivotal games in the post season, is a big time problem for this team. So I, you know, Harden, the only surprising thing about that, um, report specifically about Harden was that it was specifically about Harden. Like I'm guessing LaMarcus Aldridge feels the same way. I mean, all these guys that are, uh, trying to compete for a championship and not have, you know, they're second best player, third-best player, whatever you want to brand Irving as, it's gotta be maddening, uh, for those guys.
Now I was as interested in the Sixers side of this, because part of me was like, all right, well, the Sixers, they want to take a swing at James Harden. I get that Daryl Morey goes big game fishing all the time. But Daryl has also said publicly, including last week on an interview with the Philadelphia radio station, that like he wants Ben Simmons to play. Like he believes Ben Simmons, even now after missing half the season could be of value to this team. So like that stuff getting out. Like I, I did wonder, like, is that some of that public message sending to Simmons and his team like to gear up for the possibility, if not the probability of you having to sit out an entire season. At 25 years old, you would have to miss an entire season, if not more. Like that's the bare minimum right now. So I wondered about that. Like, were they sending a message to Ben Simmons? The other part of it is like, Joel Embiid is now put together two monster seasons, his per 36 numbers over 30 points per game, double digit rebounds up to 39% from three this season, he was an MVP in the games he played in last year, and he might be the MVP this season. He has been just a beast. Do you really want to risk wasting that season? Because Joel Embiid as you and I have talked about before. It's possible, certainly possible that he could suffer another injury or something could happen that could slam this window shut and force the Sixers team of 'what ifs', you know, over the next couple of years. So that I was just as interested to think about this from Philadelphia's perspective as I was from, how does Brooklyn respond to all this?
Howard Beck: For sure, so on the Philly side of this, I've seen a lot of understandably cynical reactions where people were saying, oh, all this Harden noise about Harden wanting to be in Philly with Embiid or whatever. Uh, this is just, uh, you know, the Sixers are putting this out there. Daryl Morey is putting this out there. He's just trying to leverage his position, all this stuff. And, um, I get that. It's not coming from there. Like it may also be coming from there, but I've heard this. I'm sure you have to, like it's other people around the league who are not part of Brooklyn's, uh, franchise or part of the Sixers, who have said they're hearing that James Harden is looking around wondering what his other options may be and eyeing Philly because of the obvious. Relationship with Daryl Morey, trust there from other years in Houston together. Hardens also tight with Michael Rubin, one of the Sixers owners, no mystery about this stuff, but I was hearing an entire case being made for why Harden might go to Philly this summer and it'd have to be via sign and trade of course, from an executive who is not with either of these franchises. And certainly not, uh, anything to do with the Sixers. Uh, a distant third party. And so this is going around and the NBA grapevine is tricky. Sometimes the grapevine gets it right. And sometimes it gets it wrong. Um, you know, notably a couple of years ago, when everybody in the NBA was convinced that Kevin Durant was leaving Golden State for the Knicks and he ended up choosing Brooklyn, shocking everybody, but the grapevine was half, right. Everybody was certain that he was leaving the warriors and he did. Uh, you know, these things go around and sometimes it's, you know, it's not, uh, it doesn't always come to fruition, but the noise is considerable about Harden looking around and it's not just Philly putting it out there for their own benefit. This is other teams. So I think it's real. And I do think there's an appeal there that makes sense. And I do think that of course, If the Sixers have a sense of that. And of course, they do, if you and I do than they do, then, unless somebody blows them away. Unless they're going to get the star that they've been looking for this whole time, or once Daryl said recently, he wants, you know, instead of top 20, he'll go to top 30 player or whatever.
Chris Mannix: He kind of responded to some of the things that people like you and I have been publicly discussing, which is. You know, do you want to do something that makes your team better in part for Joel Embiid? Uh, like, and he said he, and I'm paraphrasing here. He said he wanted to do a deal that would make the team materially better, not just taking them up a level or two. We want to make this significant, but it's an argument by the way, Howard, I get but it's still a risk. It's still a risk. Like if this season for Embiid, and he has had some monster games of late, but if this season Embiid gets wasted with a second-round exit, that occurs in part because other pieces around him couldn't step up and play well enough to help Philadelphia win. That's tough. I'll say that that's tough to waste the season like this.
Howard Beck: And, and I don't know if this is an argument supporting or countering what you just said, but the Sixers are two and a half games out of first in the east right now, like they're in this thing.
Chris Mannix: We look at it both ways. It's it could be supporting the argument or saying it doesn't have any merit. Like if you sit there, like I don't sit here, Howard. I don't, I don't believe the Sixers are a championship contender, as they're currently constructed. That's kind of what I boil it down to. They are a team that could get to a conference finals, but I don't think they're as good as fully healthy Brooklyn, Milwaukee, fully healthy Miami with all their horses back. I just don't think they're there as good as those teams.
Howard Beck: They're probably not, but as with any team in this position, it's the way I look at the Utah Jazz, the team that you are constantly championing, uh, despite all, uh, countering evidence. The jazz, I don't think they're a contender, but if something were to happen to the sons of the warriors along the way, could the jazz make the finals? Sure, the Sixers are in that same position, right? The Nets at full strength are obviously a more talented team. The bucks at full strength are a better team. The Heat at full strength, I think are probably a better team. And the Sixers you cannot ever say they're at full strength until they either have Ben Simmons back, which won't happen or trade them for something to make them whole. So the Sixers, they're not a contender when everybody's at full strength. But they're one of those teams that's good enough that something breaks their way they could get to the finals. I'm not saying it's going to happen this season. I'm not saying that you should approach the season that way. I do think though that the same principle holds now that has the whole time. And you've heard me say this before. If you trade Ben Simmons right now for pennies on the dollar or for just a bunch of role-players in some distant picks or whatever. You're still not making the finals probably, you're still not winning a championship probably, you still have burned a year of Embiid's prime when he's playing like an MVP. But it's because of the situation that I would say the Sixers did not create. Ben Simmons decided to shut it down. For whatever reason his feelings got hurt. Ben Simmons' stance is I don't think rational or defensible. The Sixers, that's the hand they got dealt, they got to deal with it. And certainly, that's on Daryl Morey and the ownership group and everybody else to fix. But if you trade him now and don't get fair value. And then this summer suddenly James Harden becomes available and you don't have the means to get him in a sign and trade because you sent Ben Simmons out for a bunch of role-players or Dame Lillard becomes available or Bradley Beal becomes available, and you have sent out your best trade ship already for less than he's worth, you've screwed yourself. And now it's not just burning a year of Joel Embiid. Now you've handicapped yourself for the next multiple years because you squandered your best tradable asset. So I, you know, I hate to say it. I think the Sixers are still doing the right thing here. You, you have to get a fair deal and they're playing well enough that it does give them, I feel like some cushion, cause this won't be a wasted year. Um, you can't count on a championship anyway, you can't count on making the finals anyway. Like that's no guarantee for any of these teams. So if if they're getting Intel that James Harden wants to come or there's a very good chance he'll come, then yeah, I'm holding on to Ben Simmons for that eventual deal again. Unless something blows me away in the next two weeks.
Chris Mannix: And in a weird way, Ben Simmons would be pretty good in Brooklyn.
Howard Beck: He'd be phenomenal in Brooklyn. Like here's the funny thing. Let's bring this back to the Nets for a second if you don't mind. . Um, I think if James Harden were not afraid to, if he had already signed an extension, the conversation we maybe would be having right now is what are the nets going to do about Kyrie Irving? Cause he's going to opt out this summer probably. He's he's got like an option for like 36 million. Do you want to bring him back? How much do you want to bring him back for what price and for how many years? Because what he is showing you in the couple of seasons he's been around is that he's either going to be injured or otherwise unavailable. So he takes two weeks off last season in the middle of the season because he was stressed out or something. Um, I'm not diminishing that, I'm not saying it wasn't legit. You can't count on him, he disappeared for two weeks. This season he's been unavailable because he won't get vaccinated. Maybe the pandemic eases, and maybe that law goes away and maybe that solves it, but maybe that doesn't happen. And what if you're going into next season with Kyrie Irving is still only available for road games. So like, there's this whole other question, James Harden aside, of what is your future? And the reason, so let's bring this back to Ben Simmons. If you think you can rely on Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant as your foundation, right? Like you still have two elite scores, elite, individual scores who could get you out of any jam who can drop 35 or 40 without even blinking. You don't need another James Harden level scorer, but having Ben Simmons to anchor your defense. And defense has been an issue for them. And he's obviously an elite Playmaker as well. Like I think I would rather have assuming best case scenarios of Durant and Kyrie available and healthy, I think I'd rather have Ben Simmons as the third piece, then James Harden.
Chris Mannix: Yeah, get a defensive-minded guy, playmaker, um, on paper it makes some sense, but these are weird times now in Brooklyn with, uh, everything kind of going on around them.
All right. I want to finish in Detroit. I want to talk about Jeremy Grant for a second there. I think he's one of the most interesting guys available on the trade market. And a guy who can be a difference-maker on several teams. I mean, Jeremy Grant is a proven 20 point per game scorer, a versatile defender, a winning type of guy, he's got one year left on his contract with the Pistons so any acquiring team would have him for at least one more season. Maybe they can work out an extension with him, uh, in the off-season to keep them around for even longer. The question with Detroit is, like, do you auction him off before February 10th? Like Jeremy Grant doesn't really fit into what the Sixers are doing right now. They're building around Cade Cunningham. They will have likely another top-three pick in this upcoming draft that they can build around as well. Now you can always trade grant in the off-season. You can even trade them middle of next season but given the number of teams that are poking around Detroit right now, calling Troy Weaver, trying to take the temperature of the Pistons. It might be a strike while the iron is hot opportunity because you know, Jeremy Grant, like I said, I do believe he can be a difference-maker for a championship-contending team, like pick team X, like put Jeremy Grant on Philadelphia and he makes them a lot better. Put Jeremy Grant on the Lakers, he makes them a lot better. Like he's got that kind of game, and that kind of skill set that can make whatever team that acquires him considerably better. So put yourself in the Pistons position, the group that runs that organization. Um, what do you do with Jeremy Grant before February 10th?
Howard Beck: I don't think it's urgent to trade him, right? Like, there's definitely a market for him as you point out, a lot of teams could use him. But can we please take the Lakers off that list?
Chris Mannix: I just threw that into the universe.
Howard Beck: Uh, but the Suns, the Bulls, the Sixers, uh...
Chris Mannix: The Bulls I didn't mention, the Bulls, like given all their injury concerns.I'd go aggressive after him. Like I, I would probably throw Patrick Williams into a deal to get Jeremy Grant. Like I think Patrick Williams is really good and can be really good, but like Jeremy Grant feels like a win now kind of guy that would fit in pretty well alongside DeRozen, Levine, makes your defense better, which has started to slip as of late, as guys have gone out of the lineup, uh, put it with Lonzo, a Playmaker, he'd be able to put up some numbers as well. I, yeah, that's a team, I think, to watch when it comes to Jeremy Grant.
Howard Beck: Like, he's a great plug and play guy, three and D, who as he's shown. And during his time with the pistons, when he's been healthy, can actually do more than just be a three and D guy, right? Like he's, he's better than just your average complimentary player, but he's also not a number one. And he went to Detroit, I think, to spread his wings a little bit and see what he could do with more opportunity. Um, but they're losing a lot of games. Does he want to get back to a winning situation? And look, he is not a free agent yet. So this is not necessarily , a what does Jeremy Grant want question. Um, but he is a free agent in 2023, so it will soon enough become a question for him. For the pistons in the meantime, it's more a matter of, you know, timeline, right? You've got all these young guys Cunningham and Saddiq Bey Bay and the rest of them. Do you feel like Jeremy Grant is that complimentary veteran who's going to help bring these guys along? Cause you do need that, right? Like you don't want a team of just 24 and under guys, I think you do need a healthy mix. You need mentors. You need guys who can stabilize the, uh, the rotation, but at 20 million, a season 20 million this year, 21 million next season is that the best version of that? Cause you, you can find cheap veteran help around this league. You could find end of bench mentors or rotation guys who were playing for the minimum or, you know, uh, the mid-level or something, and they're not ready to win now. Like Jeremy Grant is a really valuable piece to a team that's ready to win right now. And I'm not sure he has the same value for Detroit. So to answer your question, I think it's just, it's more a matter of what is, what is on the table. If they get a really nice offer that continues this building effort. It's, it's not even a rebuild, it's just a build. Like if you can get, whether it's more picks, um, or young players, whatever it may be, you know, your horizon for becoming a winning team, a competitive team, a playoff team, still a ways down the road. So I, you know, it absolutely makes sense to spin him off. Um, but I wouldn't do it just to do it. And as you point out, they can revisit that this summer if they want to.
Chris Mannix: Yeah. And I think any team that is looking to acquire Jeremy Grant needs to be confident that he wants to play there. I mean, Jeremy Grant, as we remember, he had, I think identical offers between Denver and Detroit. He chose Detroit in part because there was going to be an opportunity for him there to be the leading guy, to be if not the face of the franchise, the offensive hub with a team like that. And he has been during the time he's been healthy over the last, uh, year or so. So like if you're a team that is looking for the Jeremy Grant that was in Denver, the complimentary player, I'd probably make sure he wanted to be that before I went out there and got him and gave up real assets back in return. But I tend to agree with you on. Uh, deal or no deal there. Like, if you're the Pistons you've got the kind of offer in your head that you'll accept. And not for a moment do you go below that. Because there will be two more opportunities over the next 18 months to trade Jeremy Grant, you could do it in the off season or a year from now. You can do it before the 2022-2023 trade deadline. So that's kind of the approach I would take if I was them.
Howard Beck: There's one other thought I had on this, like on the cold business side of the NBA, this doesn't matter, but I wonder how much this occurs to them. You know, Troy Weaver and Jeremy Grant have a connection I believe. Grant was a rare coveted free agent who chose the Detroit Pistons. Like, when's the last time a significant free agent – obviously he's not a perennial all-star or anything, but still, when's the last time a significant free agent chose Detroit? And so even for symbolic value or just having kind of stability, having somebody who wants to be there, who chose you and to have him as that stabilizing force with this young group, that's still developing. I don't know how you quantify that value versus what's behind curtain number three in this trade package, but it's something it's not nothing. But do you want to trade the guy who actually chose to be there?
Chris Mannix: Yeah, and to that point, you want to collaborate with him on that.
Howard, good stuff man, we'll do it again next week.
Howard Beck: Always pleasure my friend.
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