Andrew Marchand on Awful Netfix Baseball, Great March Madness Moments, & More

All right.

Joining me now, SI Media podcast regular from the Athletic and of course from his own podcast, Andrew Marian.

Andrew, how are you?

I'm good.

Good to be back.

Disgraceful performance by me.

I haven't had you on since September.

It's crazy.

I mean, I, I've been here.

I've been waiting.

I've been waiting by the, uh, computer.

It's I think we were, I reached out once and you were.

You were not available that week, but bad job by me waiting all these 6 months to get you on.

It's crazy.

Um, I need to start with this, because you would know this.

Where Is the Netflix rating for their abomination of a broadcast for the Giants and Yankees game.

Why have we not seen that one week later?

I can't speak specifically for why not, but yeah, sometimes, uh, those things take, uh, a while to tabulate.

Uh, you're, it sounds like you're predicting you don't think a good number.

No, no, it's not that I don't think it's a, I, I think the longer we have to wait, the more of a chance of not a good number, but like, The ratings should have been out.

I mean, is this like a find me 11,000 votes in Georgia type of thing?

Like, what are we doing here?

I mean, the NFL and YouTube, you know, first came out at like 16 million for the second game of the year, Brazil, then it was 19.

Um, they found some 3 million more people who watch globally.

I don't know.

I mean, I don't want to speculate.

I don't know what, I haven't really looked into it fully about why it's taken so long to get those numbers, um.

But I do think it's, you know, the streamers, the one thing, um, that we've learned is that, I mean, NFL playoff game, people are gonna find, they know Amazon Prime Video, Netflix is something that, uh, you know, most people have , especially listening to a show like yours.

Uh, but the one thing I will say.

Is that I'm not sure there are a lot of people who turn on Netflix cause these things are active, you know, TV used to be, you turned it on.

OK, I wanna watch it, I wanna watch sports.

I go ESPN, I go regional sports networks, Fox Sports, yada yada, and you didn't know what, you didn't necessarily, maybe you're looking for something specifically, but then you might just watch sports.

I don't know if I, if I go and I turn on Netflix, and I say, oh, honey, you wanna watch Love Is Blind?

Oh wait.

It's the opening day pregame.

I wanna watch for baseball.

Let's watch that instead.

Um, I'm not sure those two things go hand in hand.

Um, and I think that's something, you know, the major NFL is a different category.

That's gonna work, I think.

But the other sports.

I'm not as positive.

I, I listen, I have a lot of frustrations with this whole thing, and near the top of the list is if I write a column, which I did, or if I'm ranting and raving about Netflix having this game and the broadcast being terrible, I, I can't deal with the people who are so dumb.

And so stupid that they bring up the NFL.

Don't compare no matter what the circumstances, don't compare a 17-game season to a 162 game season.

If you have a 17-game season, you can do whatever you want.

People are gonna, are forced to watch those games because they mean something.

Don't compare that.

Now, Netflix had an advantage.

It was opening night, so it was a special, I, I, I don't know how many people outside of the Giant and Yankee fans actually cared, but it's opening night.

It's the first game of the season.

You're excited for baseball.

People want to claim, I don't buy it for a second.

Oh, momentum from WBC.

I don't think the WBC is gonna make someone watch a Tigers Royals game in July, but that's besides the point.

My issue is, it's still very easy to blow off one game when there's a 162 game season.

So, cause I had people on, uh, you know, say, oh, well, you know, the NFL is on Netflix .

What's the big deal?

Again, dumb comparison, as dumb a comparison as you can make.

And I'll say one other thing and then you could weigh in on both issues.

You also saw the NFL and Roger Goodell, while they will sell every game to whoever they can for every penny, they would have never, they don't let their broadcasts become an abomination.

Baseball needs all the help they can get, every penny they can get.

So they will let Netflix get the game and then make it a 3-hour Netflix infomercial with all these people who have absolutely nothing to do with the Giants and Yankees messing up the entire broadcast and ruining it for the regular fan.

But Netflix doesn't, the, the, what people have to understand is we are at the point now where the leagues and the networks, nobody cares about the regular fan.

If you're a regular sports fan, You're done.

You're finished.

Nobody cares about you.

That's the reality of it.

Your response.

All right.

There's a lot there.

Um, I'll start with the last point.

I, I don't know if they don't care about the regular fan.

Um, I think it's a little more complicated than that.

I wrote a big story in The Athletic about, uh, it led with the Yankees, and you need 12 networks, uh, to watch the Yankees this year.

Um, 10 that are, then you need 5, at least 5 subscriptions to watch all the regular season games in the playoffs.

So why is that?

No, it's not just they don't care about the fans.

I don't think it's that the, the way media has gone, the ecosystem has changed because of, you know, cable being disrupted and streaming.

Now, do they, do they care more about money than the fans?

Yes, but I don't think they don't care.

Like, just, I think they care about bringing in the fringe viewer.

The hardcore viewer is gonna be there.

I'm a diehard Yankee fan.

You're a Yankee fan.

You're gonna be there on opening night.

They want the friend.

That's why, I mean, you say they care about the fan.

If they care about the fan, Burt Kreischer, Jameis Winston, and who was the other one that I may know?

Oh, the Usos, they're not on the broadcast.

Like that is, that is to get in the, you're right.

No, I think, well, no, I think I, that's where you're pointing at MLB.

I'm not gonna say it's 100%, but I do think MLB likes the idea of somehow making it bigger.

I've made this point about a million times in podcasts and stories.

The way these things are judged are inside out.

People who care, Jimmy Trainna, me, diehard fans listening, we're gonna be the ones who are judging the broadcaster stream.

The person who doesn't really care, the casual that you're trying to bring in, they're not gonna know if, you know, they're not watching because of this , you know, because the comedian's on, because there's wrestlers on.

They watch, they watch their comedy special.

They watch wrestling if they like wrestling.

So, I do think that MLB sometimes get, I, I tweeted this, I, I think, sell the game.

That, that's your product.

You have a good product, it's very popular.

The, the idea that baseball is not popular, there's 162 games.

Uh, the majority of ballparks are at least 2/3 full, if not fully full for almost all of the 81 home games.

Um, that's incredible.

Uh, so, but it's a very hyperlocal sport.

Uh, so that's, that's that.

Um.

Yeah, I agree, and that's why I, I think just as a Platform.

I mean, you know, the NBC Comp is very, you know, they have an established sports group.

Um, you know, they came in, they picked up the story.

I mean, that's the other thing these places, you know, I was on the baseball beat for a long time.

And what you would see in the baseball beat, a new person would come on the beat, and they start doing all these old stories that you did a couple of years ago.

And sometimes that has a little.

Bit of merit, but really, you're picking up the story, the fans, everyone else is here, and you're just picking up whoever was the last author.

He wrote the 1st 15 chapters, now you're in chapter 16.

We don't go back to chapter 1 cause you're new.

You need to speed it up.

And so it's the same thing when you're, when you're, uh, a new player in this.

Netflix needs to pick up the story and I think they make a mistake thinking, you know, baseball, uh, they're excited to have Netflix involved, and they should be.

Netflix is the biggest paid streamer there is, um, it's very popular, and maybe that's the future, but it's the platform.

Nobody goes and watches Netflix, which is what they're presenting.

They go and watch Stranger Things.

They go and watch, you know, other shows, you know, they have a million shows.

They go and watch those shows, not Netflix, and they kept presenting Netflix, and the last thing I would say is, With the promos, and I think they, they, they know, they made a little bit of mistake, too many promos.

I think you'll see that dialed down a little bit in the future.

Um.

Is that you're not watching Stranger Things, and every 5 minutes there's a, uh, you know, how about watch this, how about watch that, and I get a pregame show is a little bit different, but it was relentless with that, and You know, I think they're trying to make it so special.

Also, Barry Bonds, I thought that was an inspiring choice, but, you know, it was a little bit, like, again, this is your life, Barry Bonds.

The kayaks, they, that's been around for 25 years.

This isn't something new.

You guys might be new, but the kayaks and putting them in Netflix kayaks, again, I, I, I , I'm going on a little bit, but, and then Anthony Rizzo with Aaron Judge, Netflix opening day.

That's not a thing, OK?

Opening day was on Netflix.

Not Netflix opening day.

No one cares.

You're Netflix.

You're huge.

You're a trillion-dollar company.

You got a lot of smart people, but no one cares.

It's on Netflix.

So a couple of things to, to follow up there, um.

I, I, what, what I'm trying to figure out is, What does Netflix get out of this?

Because Baseball needs Netflix.

Netflix doesn't need baseball because when I, whenever I rail against streaming or even if I rail against that game, I'm always told.

You're stupid, you're fat, you're an asshole.

Everyone has Netflix.

Everyone has Netflix.

That's what I'm told all the time.

Everyone has Netflix.

So if everyone has Netflix, what does MLB, what does Netflix get out of?

So did Netflix pay for opening day, opening night, just so they can run a three-hour promo for all the Netflix shows?

Like, what exactly, so it couldn't be, see, that you can't use the theory, oh, well, Netflix bought the game and put it on because they want to get new subscribers.

I'm told everyone has Netflix.

So which is it?

Well, a couple of things.

Number one, you, you made a great, very good point at the beginning about the NFL.

The NFL is here, um, and people just on the podcast, my hands raised very high, uh, who's just listening and don't see the video.

Um.

And everything else is much lower.

This was a $50 million deal.

Um, the, the NFL deals, um, are, you know, the games were $75 per game.

Uh, this is for three events.

And, you know, the, the, Netflix will probably pay more than $75 you know, with this , with the market now, um, for future games on their service if they were to get NFL games.

So, Um, so you're talking apples and oranges, uh, with that.

Um, why do they bring it in?

Well, I mean, they, they have an advertising tier.

You know, how do you build your advertising tier?

Well, NFL is #1, college football is 2, NBA, MLB, and, you know, tied for 3, maybe.

Um, so, that, that's part of the reason, uh, you know, obviously, they wanna add subscribers, but they're kind of experiments.

I mean, they're at a stage and they're at a point where Netflix has grown, where they're trying some things out.

I think baseball has to be careful to make sure they're making good bets with these places because like you said, we haven't seen the ratings.

If Netflix sees, you know, you're getting, you know, the, this, this game on, let's, you know, traditionally, this was on ESPN, um, what they get, 2 million people.

2.5, and so you gotta figure maybe it's a little less because it's on um a streamer, or maybe there's some curiosity factor with Netflix, I don't know, we'll have to see, uh, but it So what does Netflix get out of it?

Well, they're trying out.

Do they want to get more involved in sports?

Uh, they have already, but they're, they feel like they're dabbling more than they're gonna get a 19 or 18 game, 17, 18-game package in the NFL.

It seems like, you know, I've reported a lot for a long time that Netflix, you know, 4 or 5 games probably.

Their next, you know, if they get the, the, the one thing, I mean, all of my ranting and raving about it is stupid from the standpoint of like I don't have to watch them now until opening day next year.

Like I, you couldn't pay me to watch home run derby, and I don't need to watch a Phillies Twins Field of Dreams game.

So like I'm done with Netflix for the year for baseball, which is fine.

It just, of course, they had a you have Netkelix fan, of course I have Netflix.

OK, well there you go.

Well, that was half your point, but they also want you to, but I had Netflix before this.

But I also think they want you to enjoy Netflix.

The thing is basically one event, one big-time sports event per month.

Again, you want to call them big-time sports events.

They're, you know, there's some of them are, they don't like when I term, they use the term gimmick, but some of them are a little bit of gimmicks, Tyson pole, etc.

Yeah, I mean, the only thing I've ever watched on Netflix in the sports world are the Christmas Day NFL games.

You didn't watch the MLB game.

Well, no, I'm saying before the MLB.

If that wasn't, if that wasn't the Yankees, I wouldn't have watched it.

No, and that's their issue.

And then that's baseball's overall issue in terms of national coverage.

You know, people are, why are the Yankees on?

Well, because they, they, they're the most popular team.

You, you write about stuff.

They're, they're the only team that resonates.

You know, ESPN used to have a thing, you know, top 100 teams.

I think the Yankees were the only ones in the top 10.

The rest are NFL, maybe college .

Um, so the Yankees resonate, but, It's not a national sport.

I think, you know, baseball to me, it should be, I, I try to figure out how to drill down in video and, and viewing on local.

I mean, that's what it is.

Right.

Well, of, you know, there's, well, I'm not even gonna get to it.

I was gonna get to the Yankees, but forget that.

Um, we'll go to the tournament, but before we do, let me, I'll do this since you met, you know, it was funny, you, you were, I had this on the list here of topics and you mentioned it when you were running down.

The sports and you said baseball, NBA tied for 3.

I, I know there's been this, I don't know why, but for the last, I don't know, maybe 23 weeks, there's this huge debate, like, what's the 2nd most popular sport.

First of all, you nailed it as usual.

The second most popular sport is college football.

So this is really for number 3, even though everyone keeps saying, what's the 2nd most popular?

This is the worst take you can have for what we do in terms of writing columns and doing a podcast.

I couldn't care less which sport is number 2.

Why is this important?

Am I missing something?

Like, what, what, OK, so if NBA is 2 and MLB is 3 or MLB is 2, what's the difference?

Well, what am I missing here?

Well, who cares?

Now, longtime podcast listeners, I know when I come, come on with you, they do like when we go at it and we disagree, but you're, you're dead on.

Um, I don't, who cares?

I honestly, I'm a soccer guy .

Like, I think hockey people are like this, you know, others, you know, sports that have been smaller in this country, tennis, maybe.

They, I don't understand anybody getting upset if you don't like soccer.

If Jimmy Trainor doesn't like soccer, I don't care.

If Jimmy Trainor thinks that MLB is uh bigger than the NBA good for you.

I, I think there's a case to be made for both.

There's, it's like Jordan versus LeBron, I mean, there's a case to be made for both.

It's not like you're saying anything's not great, um, but it's, these conversations to me, I find.

Somewhat silly.

Like, well, who cares?

Especially when I think both sports, again, like I watch every Yankee game, but if MLB is the 3rd instead of the 2nd, I, I don't see how that affects my life.

The other thing is, both sports should be getting credit for, I mean, Fox and baseball had a massive rating for Game 7 of the World Series last year with a Canadian team in there.

And for the NBA to get 16 million for game seven between two markets, the Pacers and the Thunder.

I mean, you don't have the Lakers, the Celtics.

You know, like, both sports are fine.

How about that?

100%.

And the, the NBA, this narrative, the NBA just did 11-year deals for $76 billion.

It's part of the reason the NFL is renegotiating.

Um, and so baseball has a great story.

I mean, their financial story because of labor issues.

I mean, we'll see if they can get out of their own way with this stuff and the TV issues, but It's, yeah, like I, I'm, I'm with you 100%.

Yeah.

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We'll go to the tournament now, um.

Well, they, obviously, the , the Duke UConn game was the story of the tournament.

I, I think about this all the time because I love Raftery.

I know everyone loves Raftery.

But I feel like people have forgotten.

Rafter he's in that spot.

Because Greg Anthony was horny one night.

Like, He would not be there if Greg Anthony did not get arrested for soliciting a prostitute.

It is really an underrated thing in the sports media world, and you get no, you know this better than anyone.

There's no one who's universally loved .

Raft is universally loved, and he's in that spot because of an accident.

It really is, well, I shouldn't say accident because of circumstances that no one saw coming.

Mistake, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It, it is wild.

Well.

Yeah, I, I think a lot of times people don't know what's in front of them, but I also would say, I used to have this conversation when I was at ESPN New York and we had some guys who've gone on to great success and Ian Begley and Mike Mazzio and some others, and I used to say to them, The most likely you're not gonna be anointed to a position.

This is kind of the way careers happen.

I think when you start Hot Clicks, I think that was sort of an idea.

It wasn't someone it's like, Jimmy Trainna, we have this vision of what you can become.

It's sort of, so, you wouldn't think that would happen at that level with Bill Raftery.

Um, the Packers there forever.

Um, then they had Greg Anthony, tried Clark Kellogg.

Um, they're having trouble finding that combo.

Um, and then, you know, Raftery sort of, he just got, he didn't get anointed.

And, You know, he also , people forget, you know, at ESPN where he was for years, he was doing the Nets, mostly with Iron Eagle.

Um, and he also was doing ESPN, but he was the definitive number 2 behind Dick Vitale.

Um, you know, that Dick Vitale did the biggest games.

So, a little underrated, uh, in terms of his positioning and, You know, the thing that, look, the thing about Raftery, and this is the thing that like when you're picking people to be on these games, he loves being there and he makes you love being there.

He's good company.

It's not that complicated.

Like, is his, is there like an analysis that you remember that, not that he's not on it, he's on it, but is there some analysis where you say, wow, Bill Rafter.

He told me something nobody else would, no, it's not really it.

It's the shtick.

It's the fun, you know, especially with the sport, the love of the sport.

He just loves, he loves being there.

And like the thing about it, and that's the most, like whatever you're doing right now in media, um, maybe in anything, but in media, which, which I could speak to, you have to be as passionate about what you're covering.

As the people listening.

So you and I talk in sports media, we have to love it as much as anybody listening.

People listening right now are choosing to listen to us because they love it and they want to hear more about it.

So we need to be, if we're not at that level, at least, if not even more passionate than them, we got no chance.

Um, and so I think that's true when you're, you're, calling college basketball or any sport.

And then again, what makes it a great story is just the circumstances of it where Nance decides he's done with the tournament.

So they obviously, they move up iron.

I mean, uh, you want to talk about, you know, outside of maybe Madden and Summerall.

I mean, have you seen a national duo with better chemistry than Ian and Raftery?

Like they, they, they have magic there.

Yeah, and we shouldn't leave Grant Hill out either.

I mean, I, I think because I think Grant, what he, the beauty of Grant Hill is that he's one of the legendary college players, had a, you know, got hurt in the NBA but had a good NBA career, would have been better if he didn't get hurt, uh, a Hall of Famer, and, Just puts his ego to the side.

Um, and so, yes, it's great chemistry.

And look, that's the PTI thing, you know, whenever there's a, you know, reminiscing about PTI it's always, well, they put a rundown on the side and da da da, and this, that and the other thing.

And those things are all good and fine, and the format was great and whatever.

Kornheiser and Wilbon were arguing in the Washington Post hallways for 25 years before they ever went on TV.

That makes it easy for you to say whatever you want.

Raftery and Eagle know where, where each other's going, um, and they know how to do a broadcast.

I mean, and that shows up late.

When you do the, you know where, like Eagle knows where Raftery's going.

And then, you know, he knows when to sort of get his call in and then Raff is going and then Grant Hill, uh, you know, again, not competing, which you can have in a three-person booth, um, instead waiting and actually to me made the biggest point of that sequence.

And I thought, I wrote this too.

I mean, Ian deserves so much credit for, for not calling it as a game winner.

I think everyone watching it, we thought, oh, it's a game winner.

It was 0.3 on the clock.

They, they, I think they added it.

They made it 0.4. But if Ian would have, you know, when the, when the ball's in the air.

Um, headed toward the net.

If I, you know, finds it for the win or, or, you know, starts screaming, UConn wins, you, you almost can't fault them there, but, He nailed it by not doing all that and giving you the fact that 0.3 was left.

It was, he deserves a lot of credit for how he did that call there .

100%.

Uh, is it Malcolm Gladwell who did the 10,000 hours thing?

People say it's BS or whatever it is.

I don't know if it is or not, but I will say Iron Eagle had called, and he doesn't do as many now, but he called Nets games for 25 years.

He's been doing CBS for 25 years.

Now he does Amazon Prime Video.

You do 8 million games.

It shows up in the big spots, uh, because your fundamentals are really good.

I think he said in your column that, you know, he maybe early in his career once said game winner and it wasn't a game winner and so he never said that again.

And I think in those spots, I think also the other thing is there's a tendency nowadays because of social media, because of the quick responses from everybody to try to make the moment about you.

And, but, and, and you can, and you can have that moment .

I like when guys take chances, but the most important thing is to understand score and time there.

And like you said, time, because Duke did have another chance, and they, they added a 10th.

It was 0.4, um, and it wasn't for the win, you know, obviously, if you're a broadcaster, you'd rather it be for the win, because then you can have that iconic final goal, but, uh, you know, they handled it really well.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's funny you say about, you know, they can make it about themselves, especially now when, I mean, I don't know if I, I mean, it's been a thing now for a little while, but I, I, I really didn't start thinking about it until Sunday, like, I would love to know how many of these guys are aware they're being filmed for the reaction videos afterwards.

I mean, we saw it in the tournament a few years ago at Harlan with, uh, Stan Van Gundy, and who was the third person there, Bonner.

But, you know, uh, when I talked to Ian, I don't think this made what I ended up posting.

But we talked briefly about how he said, you know, he had trouble coming down from the height of making the call.

And I said, well, also, like, there's layers to it now.

Like you have the call in the moment, then you have the people like us in sports media and the fans who analyze the call.

Then the video comes out that goes viral and he's like, he, he told me, he goes, that's a good point.

It doesn't, there's like waves of it.

It is amazing now.

I mean, we see it, you know, here in New York, SNY they filmed Gary Cohen and Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling for the, for the moment.

You know, the Yankees are doing it with Sterling for the WFAN was doing it for Sterling for the radio.

Now we have to, now everyone has to be filmed.

I'd love to know how many of these people are like playing it up for the, for the reaction video now.

Yeah, I don't know if it's great personally.

Like, I, I get it.

We like the videos, but, you know, they have a job to do.

And the, and the, the thing is about, I say two things.

Number one, when I just overall, I always say this is not the nicest thing to say, but when you evaluate a broadcast, the first thing you want is not for them not to be annoying.

OK, so on a big call, the first thing you want, don't mess it up and give it the, like there are plays that happen that the play by play person makes different.

Like, I'll give you a good Iron Eagle one.

When John Morant had a dunk, I don't know, it was he in the playoffs last year or something.

It was a, it was an amazing dunk , and Iron Eagle said jawbreaker, which was just such a tremendous call.

Um, it elevated that play, and that's what you want.

You want people to elevate.

So, I don't know if the filming of it.

I don't know, it's kind of like when, again, nothing against any colleagues who put this stuff out there, you know, everyone shows like their, the boards.

You know, of like the, the, the announcer boards of what they do.

I, you know, maybe you're going right after Richard Deits with that one.

That's his baby, right?

I take a direct aim at Richard's my guy, but he's the board guy.

He loves, I'm not of those boards.

I'm not a big boards guy.

I don't know.

It's like, yep, they prepare.

I'm not saying they're not interesting, uh, to a point, but I feel like it's done.

So I think that's the thing with the video as well.

It's sort of, yeah, these guys get excited.

I mean, it's cool again.

It's Raftery.

His reaction.

I, I also think it's even bigger because it's Grant Hill.

It's Grant Hill.

I mean, and it's Duke, and it's Duke losing.

Um, it is crazy.

They got killed in the rating because the game was so bad up until the last 5 or 10.

I mean, they got 13 million for that game.

People are going crazy because it peaked at 19, but the overall average of that game was 13.2 million, which was less than the Friday night early window with Saint John's and Duke.

They got saved by the last, you know, by the comeback there in the last few minutes, but, um, You know, sunny day in New York.

Sunny day in New York.

A little.

The weather wasn't great around the country, so no, it's a blowout game.

That's what it was.

Um, wait, but I'm that, you know, that segment.

Come on.

Oh yeah, of course, um.

It is, and I, I think CBS and Turner deserve credit too, because It is I mean, that roster for the tournament is, I mean, Brad Nessler is like their last guy on, on sort of the roster there.

I mean, you have Iron and Rafy, which we talked about.

Harlan is great with Robbie Hummel and Stan.

You have Catalan with Lapis is a great crew.

Brian Anderson is there, great play by play guy.

They, they really nailed it.

They nail it every year with the tournament when it comes from a broadcasting standpoint.

Do you agree?

Yes, I think, uh.

Yeah, we did a show, Mia Perel and I, Andrew Marian.

com for the podcast.

Uh, there's my plug, uh, where we graded all the, uh, and look, they all were good.

You're right.

Like you don't, there's no crew that they have currently.

Say again.

I should have mentioned Spiro Adidas.

I don't wanna leave anyone out.

Yeah, yeah, don't leave anybody out.

Um, but they, they all do, um.

A really good job and there's no broadcast where you're like, again, like I said, there's no broadcast that they have, you know, in the current grouping where like that this, this, they're taken away from my enjoyment, um, which I think is really important, um, you know, can you like one better than the other?

Of course, we all do.

We all have our favorites, um, who we like, who we think do a better job than others.

That's the nature of the game.

But I guess what they, again, It's the passion.

I mean, that's kind of like, uh, we talked about a lot the other day about the, uh, studio show with Nate Burleson and Barkley and Kenny and, uh, Clark Kellogg and Bruce Pearl.

It's kind of the opposite.

You know, the people they have on the games, they really are passionate about college hoops.

I don't think you could say there's really, One person that I can think of who's not passionate on the games, um, about college hoops.

And what they did with the studio show, the top studio show without Ernie, they had basically 3/5 of the, uh, grouping wasn't that, you know, besides Clark Kellogg and Bruce Pearl, you're not that, um, invested in college hoops all year, and it shows.

Yeah, well, I don't know why Bruce Pearl is there.

Why are you adding?

There's so many people there already.

Why?

Like, for the last few years, it's always been Kenny, Charles, Clark Kellogg, and then the host.

I think Jay Wright , I think Jay Wright would go in there late.

So yeah, I mean, Bruce Pearl is probably not Jay Wright, um, and I, and I know people were mad because they're playing games and stuff at halftime and so, but like, I don't know, that doesn't bother me.

Like I don't.

I, you can give me a first half summary and a second half look ahead in like 1 minute.

I don't need a 15-minute.

Halftime show.

First of all, they're not giving you 15 minutes.

We're doing a lot of commercials.

Number one.

Number 2 is, I don't disagree on Thursday opening the tournament.

You want to give me a game show here?

You know, you're on for the shows, you know, you got 8 hours of basket, you know, whatever.

You got 12, you go 12 to midnight.

Yes, you got more than 12 hours of basketball.

Sure, you wanna give me a little game show there?

I think we're going through.

The Elite Eight.

Let's break down the game.

All right.

Again, again, I, I, because you cover this, you know, people always are like, you're obsessed with this.

You're, no, no, no, we cover this.

So I, yeah, I'm not losing sleep.

I'm not like , oh, I can't fall asleep because they did a game show.

Uh, but I will tell you, when you do a game show and you say who the next North Carolina coach is, at least a couple of them have to answer.

You got, Kenny Smith not wanting to answer because he's campaigning for the job.

You got, uh, um, Clark Kellogg sitting it out.

I mean, let's like, let's have a little pre, uh, pre, pre-show meeting where we say, hey, is anybody gonna answer this?

And you got Barkley saying Bruce Pearl.

You know, Pearl said, what did he say?

He said, Billy Donovan.

That was at least the real answer.

I'm just, I don't know.

To me, halftime comes, I'm out.

I'm, that's my time to like do whatever I have to do to then watch the second half, but that's just me.

I, I get where I get, I understand why people, OK, but that can't be their thing.

It's like, all right, Jimmy, you know, nobody's watching.

No, no, no.

I'm saying I get why people would be annoyed that they're playing game shows.

I, my point is you don't need to do a whole halftime of X's and O's and analysis, but you gotta give them, you gotta give people something there.

That, that was, no, I, I, I agree with that.

All right, I'm gonna go backwards.

We started with baseball.

We went to the tournament.

I'm gonna go back to baseball.

Where do you stand on NBC using the rotating analysts with Benetti?

Yeah , I like it.

I think, well, look, do I think in an ideal world, you have a great analyst?

Yeah.

Um, I think that would be good.

I think the issue that you run into with baseball is these guys make so much money now.

Not only the stars, but if you have a career where you'd be, where they'd want you on network TV and not even a great career, you're gonna make so much.

Money, you don't have to do it.

And you're gonna have an A-Rod every once in a while who's scarred from his career, who, who goes 26 weeks and was going out with J Lo and I'm just like, why is A-Rod in Milwaukee on a Sunday night, even though he's, you know, taking A-Rod.

Um, but you're not really going to get, and he wasn't particularly good at it, but, um, you know, even though I love you A-Rod, uh, I know, uh, Um, you might be listening.

The, uh, um, the, but the, the, the bottom line I would say is that it's hard to get guys to do every week.

Um, and so I, I, I think it kind of works, and especially I, Bennetti's tremendous.

I mean, that, that, yeah, I don't, I don't wanna cut you off.

We'll get into Bennetti, but it's an interesting point to you, because you, you're saying that because of the money, cause like I'm thinking about, and again, I understand everything changes and I'm old and all that, but like, It was John Miller and Joe Morgan every single week without fail on ESPN on Sunday night.

When I was a kid, it was Costas and Tony Kubeck every single week without fail.

So you're saying because these guys have made so much money now in their careers, they don't need to work every week doing these games.

That's, I never really thought of it that way, but that's a really, really smart point about because I Joe Morgan, if Joe Morgan played today and was retiring, he would have made $500 million or $400 million whatever.

He would have made a crazy amount of money.

Now he might have done it, and the guys do do it, um, but Clayton Kershaw do it don't do it.

Yeah, Clayton Kershaw was on opening night, did a good job.

He's not gonna be on till August.

And I, it's only gonna be a cameo then.

Then it'll be in the playoffs.

He's not doing a lot because he doesn't have to.

Eventually Kershaw does a lot.

I could see maybe he becomes a national game like the Michael Jordan NBC thing, a little bit, yeah, a little bit more than Michael.

Um, I did say the other day on the pod that Michael Jordan's been on Fox regularly.

CBS interview the other day with Gil King.

The only network he hasn't been on is NBC.

Special contributor.

I cut you off when you wanted to say something about Benetti, so go ahead.

Yeah, I think Bennetti's tremendous.

Like, I think he's what you want in a baseball broadcast.

He, um, brings, um, a good levity to it.

He's just, again, it kind of like that iron eagle point I made.

He just does a million games, has the personality.

Um, to, uh, to, to bring out of these analysts, you know, you're gonna probably get some hit or misses, um, with these local analysts.

But I guess the big issue with baseball is that generally speaking, they, the, the national analysts come in and they know much less about the team than your regular analysts and in many cases, the fans.

And so, again, you need to, if you're NBC.

Or when ESPN does their game or Apple or whomever, and the other 50 networks that they have, you're picking up the story.

Yes, are you gonna be maybe a little more national focused because you got some people who aren't from the area.

But for the most part, the people watching these games are a good majority of them are fans of these teams.

It's a local sport, and you're just picking up the story.

And that was also the problem with Netflix is that like, I don't know.

Can we get a little bit about the current Giants and Yankees?

No.

Burt Kreischer, he took his shirt off, um.

The one thing I would say about the NBC with the rotating analysts, I feel like, and you know, you always, you always bust my chops about this, how like I say things that I want catered to Jimmy Trayna.

So this is gonna be one of those things.

I almost feel like you need to leave the names of the analysts Kyron on the screen or something.

I was thinking about it opening day when it was Mets Pirates early.

It was Al Lighter and Neil Walker.

Now, I know Al Lighter's voice because I'm in New York and he's done games in New York.

But I was thinking like, if you're someone who's in like, you know, Dallas, Texas , you probably don't know who's who.

And then Sunday night, they did the Mariners and Guardians on Peacock and I flipped it on just to, I just wanted to see how it looked and all that.

I have no clue who the analysts are because it's one guy from Cleveland and one guy from Seattle.

I knew the guy from Seattle because he had the accent, so it was the relief pitcher, Ryan Rowan Smith or something, but I would imagine, you know, most of these games you're not gonna know who the hell's doing the game, so they need to tell you who's doing the game off.

Yeah, I would say that's a good point.

Like they did that.

They put the, um, when Kershaw, they did this, you know, they have this new thing inside pitch, um, where like they have Adam Adovino, who's not like they're bull, he's like in the bullpen all over the place, um.

They did that with Kershaw.

I think that might be something they probably want to mix in a little bit on the, under the score bug.

They did it the other day, but maybe a little bit more with the analysts names.

I think you're right, that would be helpful.

The best thing that happened to NBC was that the Netflix game was first, so that was so awful.

When NBC came, it was like such a breath of, uh, and I, listen, if you watch Sunday Night Football on NBC and you watch the NBA and NBC, you know they were gonna do a good job and they did.

So, and I thought 3.2 million for Dodgers Diamondbacks on opening night was a tremendous number considering it was going against the tournament.

Yeah, I mean, look, broadcast is where, if you want the biggest numbers, you want the biggest reach, that's what they want.

Like I, I think that's fair.

Um, you know, you look at them moving from Sunday Night Baseball from ESPN to Peacock NBC.

I did have a question.

I did ask somebody about if Peacock's going to have ratings for these just Peacock games.

I haven't heard back yet.

Um, but, You know, that I, so it's, I, a little bit of a wash, I'd say because I think if you're on ESPN every week as opposed to, you know, when it's on NBC that'll be bigger, um, but when it's on Peacock, definitely smaller.

I don't think there are a lot of people watching that game.

Forget Peacock.

Get, get the Netflix rating.

We need the Netflix rating, um.

NFL, uh, you know, I feel like.

People are trying to make out like significant news has come out of these meetings.

I think the only thing that was significant is you're gonna get another game or two on Black Friday, maybe, and then you're gonna get an extra game on Christmas Day.

So Fox will get, so you'll have the two Netflix games likely during the day on Christmas Day, and then Fox will get a game at night.

On Christmas Day, you're gonna get an extra Black Friday game.

I mean, Thanksgiving Eve was out there already.

The no doubleheaders on Monday was out there already.

Um, anything surprising you about NFL news coming out of those meetings?

Anything, or no, I'm more interested actually.

I'd love to know your thoughts.

Is it too much NFL?

Like you go Wednesday, Thanksgiving Eve, which I don't know if that's a thing, but now it is.

Let's say the 3 games, you got 4 games, then you got Friday, Black Friday.

Let's say they do 1 game or they're 1 game, maybe you get 2 games.

I mean, by the time you get to Sunday, you're gonna have, I mean, you're gonna be watching, uh, the 1 in 44, 1 in 12 Jets versus the, uh, 2 and, you know, uh, 2 and 11, yeah, Browns.

Thank you for that.

I don't think there's such a thing as.

Too much NFL and I, and I think if I was the NFL, if I were the NFL, I think the idea of getting as many standalone games as possible is a good thing.

I think it's just because of what we said at the top.

Every game means something.

So standalone games are good.

I think the story here, there is a huge story here, and I think it's that the, the continuing, the continuing devaluation of Sunday Ticket.

And if you're CBS and Fox, you can't be happy that you're gonna keep losing all these games on, that would be Sunday at 1 or Sunday at 4:25.

I mean, they've made it clear they don't really give a shit about Fox and CBS.

But also , I mean, given what they charge for Sunday Ticket.

And now like you said, those games are spread out.

That's, I think the issue, and you have Sunday Ticket, you'll never, you'll never let it go.

I'll never let it go.

It's terrible.

So that's what that's the issue because I'm the problem.

You, well, you'll never let it go.

So I like to break this down.

So I had, I had Sunday Ticket for, I think we've gone over this once before.

I had Sunday Ticket Forever DirecTV.

Call them every year, tell them they're gonna cancel.

They give it to you for 100 bucks and like did it every year, and then one year they, they just would not do it, and I just, I got rid of them.

One year they got, and then, and then I was covering the Yankees.

So then I.

You know, I don't know, I'd have to look exactly, but, you know, then I was covering the Yankees, baseball, Yankees, you're going, and then, you know, they let go of everyone at ESPN.

So if the Yankees lost, you're still covering the playoffs.

So you're on the road.

Kids also have activities.

I'm just not, you know, it wasn't on your phone.

Um, it wasn't worth it for me because I just wasn't home enough to pick it up, um, in, you know, November.

Uh, so, But I, you know, I'm a Steeler fan.

I, you know, I, I know I'm not as diehard as I once was, but I still like to watch their games.

The Steelers, if you wanna watch, it means they're good.

That means that probably in my area, you're gonna get 8 games, regular TV, 7 to 8.

So, is it worth it for the other 8 or 9, I don't know.

So that's the, yeah, that's the.

So what do you, what are you gambling?

I, I need it because I can't watch the Jets and Giants every week.

It's just not happening.

Well, there you go.

So they got you.

All right , let me wrap it up with this.

You know, before you became a big star here at the Athletic covering sports media, you were at the New York Post.

You went from local to national, breaking every sports media story at both places, but you focused a little more on New York stuff in New York when you were at the Post, now that you're at the Athletic.

Did you have a tinge of like, I wish I was back at the post.

I got a hankering for being back at the hankering for being back at the post when the GOBT feud was going on, because that would have, how many stories would you have written off of that if you were at the post?

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I, I might have, you know, they, they still write about it, but You know, like I was in the heart of Francesca versus Kay versus everyone, yeah, Francesca versus me because of your stupid podcast.

I said something that, uh, I didn't actually ever say , but whatever, um, that caused a thing where I ended up going down to the, uh, The old station, uh, which was fun.

You go back and read those stories, those are crazy.

You would have been all over the, yeah, no, no, I mean, look, I still look, I had Chris Olivero, the head of, uh, Odyssey, on my podcast a couple of times.

We still talk about on the podcast, uh, the New York stuff, and I do do some stuff.

I think I broke the carton coming back.

Yeah, I think I broke that story, um, and so, uh.

Yeah, look, that one who won?

It's not a fair fight either, just for the record.

I don't know.

I mean, I would say, I would say BT won from the standpoint of that had to be good for his podcast in terms of boosting visibility.

Yeah, like Geo's.

Exactly.

Geo has, it's not really a fair fight at the moment, you know, like BT might not want me to say this, I don't think, but, you know, Geo is thriving with Boomer.

They have the number 1 or top 3 show in mornings.

Um, I don't know where it's rated at the moment, uh, but, you know, and been successful for a long time.

BT was just let go by FAN, so that's not really, uh, You know, so at the end of the day, you know, Geo, which he did, he pointed to the ratings and this and that.

I mean BT pointing out, I will say when Boomer and Geo had Francesa on, I think that's a point where you, you gotta go back and might get that.

You can't say, you know, do their impersonation, and then he comes on and you don't really go back at him, you're giving, you know, that was a time where I thought Geo, um, You gotta go back at that point.

Um, so I listen, I thought both delivered massive body blows, but if you're just looking at it from like the publicity standpoint of it, this helped better for BT, you know, more awareness for BT.

BT, when you're not on, when you're starting out something new.

It's like, uh, rap wars.

You, you always go after, you know, you go after the person who's higher, right?

Like Geo's on the fan.

He can't really win from that sta, you know, going by that.

I mean, he pounded him pretty good.

He said he wasn't a good teammate.

All his producers were happy.

I didn't name names, but yeah, yeah.

All right, well, I appreciate you coming on.

It's been, we will not wait 6 months till the next visit from Andrew Marshian at the Athletic Andrew Marshian podcast.

Sub stack, do you want to give a like a URL or something?

Yeah, you, uh, if you wanna listen, Andrew Marchand.

com.

You can be a free or paid subscriber.

Who's on your pod this week.

This week, Mike Soltis, who longtime ESPN PR guy, uh, who produced, it's coming out, it's the same day as the championship, but, uh, sports heaven, the birth of ESPN.

Amazing stories from Soltis about Berman and just how, uh, everything started, Keith Oman.

He had the great quote.

He has the most legendary sports media PR quote of all time.

Do you know what it is?

The most, he said when Oberman left the first time, ESPN , yeah, he said he didn't burn bridges.

He nap palmed them.

And then he came back and Celtis had a good quote.

He said, uh, uh, he came back to ESPN radio.

I think he said something to the effect of, uh, I love the smell of napalm in the air in the or in the morning or something out there.

Yeah, that was good.

All right, so catch Marshian on his own pod and, uh, thanks for doing this one.

We will talk to you soon.

All right, thanks man.

Thanks.