Cinderella Is Officially Dead; Sweet 16 Is Loaded | Others Receiving Votes

OK.

Welcome to the show.

Others receiving votes.

Pat 40 joined by my SI colleagues, Brian Fisher and Kevin Sweeney.

Uh, we're gonna talk all things Big Dance, March Madness, NCAA tournament after a very eventful.

Largely fulfilling, partially disappointing first week of games.

Um, did wanna note we have achieved like nationwide synergy today.

Uh, we have somebody in every time zone.

Producer Kent is in the east.

Kevin Sweeney's in the central, Brian Fisher's in the mountain, and I am in the Pacific, uh, as I was in San Diego, and I'm going straight to San Jose for the Sweet 16.

Uh, so we're bad and we're nationwide.

We got that much going for us, that's about it.

But, uh, let's just jump in, guys.

Um, Some great games, some unbelievable finishes, some real thrills, some drama.

Uh, and also absolutely zero evidence of Cinderella, uh, still existing.

Now, um, You know, last year, this was, this was also the case, and I wrote a column about it, and some people said, you're premature, you're too small a sample size, 2 years is, is different.

We have doubled the sample size.

Still the case.

Doesn't mean I don't think, you know, we're, we're never going to see Loyola, Chicago again, or a Missouri Valley team make a run, but uh it is significant that everybody still playing, the 16 teams left.

are from Power conferences, and out of those 14 are from schools that play big-time football.

I guess you could even say 15 if you want to give UConn the benefit of the doubt.

But, uh, So we are missing a, a long-held cherished element of the NCAA tournament.

Kevin, you wrote about this after the first round of games.

Uh, what happened?

What's going on, and then I want your opinions on whether this is a, a really bad thing or whether it's OK.

Yeah, so, I, I took it basically from 3 big angles, and I think, big picture, what I would say is that there are a lot more factors than simply, oh, NIL and the portal have created an environment where the best teams are, have so much more money and so much more resource that they have to dominate, right?

I, I don't, I think that is true.

I don't think it's the only thing driving this.

I think number one, the best teams are better.

Uh, if you look analytically back to like 2022, um, Vanderbilt, who is a 5 seed, would have been like a 1 seed caliber team based on Ken Palm, relative to the quote unquote center of college basketball.

That's how Ken Palm builds its metrics is you're compared basically to what the average team would be.

Vanderbilt compared to average as a 5 seed this year is as.

Good as the 1 seeds were back then.

So there's, there's less parity, um, 1 to 365, there's probably more parity 1 to 10, 1 to 20.

Um, number 21 of the things I talked to both Nate Oates and, and Grant McCaslin about was the idea that, um, You know , the way you always won as the little guy was to have more continuity, uh, to be tougher, to be older, to be more together, um, they don't have that anymore, right?

I mean, Alabama was playing Hofstra, Hofstra's best player in the game as a freshman.

Um, so it's a hard way to live.

Uh, and, and then the third angle that I think has been pretty underdiscussed, but I think it's maybe the, maybe, maybe the most important factor, like, X and O wise, is that Like the game has totally changed stylistically from a couple of years ago, um, right?

And you think back to, we, we'll, we'll use 2022 as sort of the, the last, the last dance for, for , for pre-NIL pre-portal, pre-everything, right?

2022, uh, everyone was trying to play quote unquote pro style.

They wanted to shoot 3s, they wanted their 4 men to shoot, they wanted their five men to shoot.

And that injects a lot of volatility into the game, and one of the things Todd Golden and I talked about, and Todd is, um, a coach that has been one of the quote unquote leaders of the charge in this, of playing bigger again, like building the football team of a, of a front court, essentially.

Like, you really reduce your volatility as a team when you are elite at protecting the rim, uh, elite at rebounding the basketball, and if you look at the quote-unquote, next wave of elite coaches, right?

Dusty May, John Shire, Todd Golden, Dan Hurley, um, you know, the list goes on, like Ryan Odom, the Virginia team is, is, is built this way.

They're all really big, really physical, uh, and they win the possession war, essentially.

And so, the mid-major team that's built with small guards that fire up 3s, it's, it's, it's a tough way to live in that setting.

And so, I think that's probably an underrated part.

Now, again, you can build those teams in part because of NIL and because of the portal, right?

Florida does not have Alex Condon this year if he can't get paid multiple-million dollars to come back.

That's the reality.

But I don't think it's as simple as, oh, well, now that, now that players can transfer freely, the small schools are are cooked forever.

I do think these things will stylistically shift back and forth, but I do think it's bad for the tournament, if we don't have upsets, if we don't believe that it's possible.

I'd say we still probably can believe it's possible.

Again, we should have long enough memories to remember Fairleigh Dickinson, to remember Saint Peter's.

Shoot, I mean, I have whatever, 72 hours of memories go to when Sienna was up 13 in the second half against Duke.

Like it's Sienna with 5 players, like, I mean, it's, I, I don't think we are in full fatalistic mode.

But I do think it's a lot harder than it's been, and because of that, I think you'll see less of it, and we've just been probably unfortunate that a lot of the, you know, games you had a chance in, the Sienna game, Wright State against Virginia, uh, some of the 4-13 and 5-12s that were more competitive, they just couldn't quite get over the line.

And, and yeah, I, I definitely add that, you know, I think that the NIL component almost gets overemphasized in, in, in this discussion.

I mean, even this, this past weekend, I mean, we're talking about Kentucky, you know, flopping with the amount of money that they spent on their roster, uh, the same at places like Kansas and North Carolina.

So you could have Money and, and that certainly has provided an advantage for a lot of those, you know, high major teams, uh, in terms of building the roster, but it, it's not everything.

And, you know, I, I look at just the size of these, these leagues too.

Like that, I think that's a contributing factor these last couple of years.

You know, the Big 12 has expanded, the SEC has expanded.

Um, you know, the ACC has ballooned to 18.

Um, that, that's a factor.

And then those leagues that, uh, some of those schools were coming from, you know, whether it's, uh, the Big East or others, they , they've backfilled.

So it's, you know, the mid-majors are now playing up a level two, you know, in, in terms of the conference.

So I think that is another contributing factor.

I think the seating, um, probably gets under, uh, you know, Kevin, you mentioned it, like the committee.

Itself is doing such a better job.

I mean, it was strange this this year where we're not complaining about, um, outside of maybe Saint John's, uh, having, having a case in, in, in the Big East with, with UConn maybe being overseeded and Saint John's being underseeded.

Not a whole lot of complaints over the work of the committee.

And, and even going back last year, you know, maybe North Carolina's inclusion was kind of the one thing that Everybody kind of glommed on to, but, uh, the committee has done a better job and just in terms of seating and, and where those mid-majors are in the tournament, in the, in the bracket, where these high majors are in terms of the season that they are, um, deserving.

I mean, we only have really kind of Texas out there if you want to say, all right, that's, that's the, the, uh, the outsider looking in in terms of, uh, making a run from the first floor to the second weekend.

It it's just, it's just a different tournament itself, and I think that has contributed a little bit as well.

Um, and, and, and plus, I mean, offensive efficiency, uh, you know, on track to, to reach new heights, you know, teams even at the, at the high major level are, are shooting 3s better than they ever have been, even with that physical emphasis that you're talking about Kevin.

So, um, I, I think it's a combination of factors and that's not to say that we won't see these high points say, hey, look, all right, a couple more millions of dollars in in terms of the roster investment.

Keeping guys or whatever.

Maybe we can be one of those lone mid-majors that can go on a run, uh, in, in the, in the tournament moving forward.

I think they're, they're actually seeing proof positive that if you can make some of that investment, you can go toe to toe with , with, with some of these, these high major teams in the tournament and that, uh, is, is probably gonna lead to a different cycle moving forward these next couple of years.

So maybe, maybe this, this is just kind of that interim period as everybody's trying to figure things out, but, um, I, I think a lot of external factors have, have certainly contributed to this, this equation.

Yeah, good points, both of you guys.

Um, the, the, the realignment issue, uh, is real, I think that, uh, You know, if you wanna go back, and I did a story before the tournament started on everybody.

Um, from a non-football power conference or, or non-Big East that went to the Final Four in the 21st century.

Has changed conferences, or is changing conferences.

Everybody's trying to move up.

And as you mentioned, uh, the Big 12 taking Cincinnati out of the quote-unquote, mid-major ranks, even though they never really were.

But also BYU, also UCF, also Houston.

Uh, if you go back, Conference USA used to have Louisville and Memphis and Marquette, uh, they certainly don't have that anymore.

Um, and so everybody, you know, this kind of shift to the American and to the A10, and there's just less.

Inherently competitive programs, I think, in some of the true mid-major to low-major conferences.

So, uh, I think that element is missing.

Certainly, Kevin, what, what you said, it's, I mean, it's a great point about the stylistic element of this.

Um, you know, that, that.

When you are playing against multiple 7-footers, and you know what, shout out to Lithuania, you're all over the Sweet 16.

They got, you know, big guys that are playing great all over college basketball right now, but it's just harder to do when you are matched up against gigantic size, and you throw in shooters, uh, and, you know, it's just, it's a, it's a harder, harder game, um, I think, when, when you're going up against those disadvantages.

Um.

I want to thank uh High Point for your service.

You did give us a pretty darn big thrill, and, and darn near two big thrills.

I mean, they played great against Arkansas.

That was a hell of a game.

So that was good.

But yes, we're at a point where plucky little Texas, the, uh, the richest athletic department in America, is the lowest seed still playing.

Uh, Nebraska is trying to be the Indiana of basketball.

Good for them, great story, but, you know, a Big 10 school.

Iowa, Big 10 school, now they're doing it with a Division 2 point guard and a Division 2 coach, which is fantastic, the Bennett Sturtz, uh, Ben McCollum duo that shot down Florida.

So, You know, that's what we got.

Uh, it's still, it's been a very compelling tournament.

It's going to continue to be a compelling tournament.

We were all at, uh, very different sites.

Brian was in Greenville, South Carolina, which is a great city, by the way.

You know, I, I, I gotta say, I, I was a little disappointed, uh, that, that you got the nice draw of San Diego, which is one of my favorite cities in the country, but Greenville could not have been greater.

We got, I got multiple pod listeners come up to me in, in the hotel.

at the at the arena itself say that they listened, so thank you all, everybody that, uh, that came up and said something.

It was, it was a great town, like great town, perfect environment for the first weekend, great melting pot for all the fans, great restaurants, it was fantastic.

So shout out, shout out Greenville.

I I will second that, uh , as well, Pat.

Yeah, I, I went there for a swim meet in 2013.

I was like, why doesn't anybody know about this place?

Phenomenal.

It's like Asheville, it's a little bit different, but, like, these two places in the Carolinas that are like, oh my gosh, they're fantastic.

Anyhow, and Kevin was in Tampa, I was in San Diego, so we all saw some stuff.

Let's, uh, just give me your, your favorite thing that you saw and that you covered.

Brian, you go first out of, uh, out of Greenville.

Uh, yeah, I mean, it.

I, I, I struggle because, you know, the, the 1st, 1st day I was there, obviously with, with the games.

I, I had 3 great games, uh, you know, I'll, I'll set aside the, the Illinois cause they, they, they, they romped, you know, like there's a very impressive opening statement, uh, for Illinois in both of their games, but obviously the, the, the VCU comeback, um, from, from down 19, um, in, in the second half, and the larger implications for that too, uh, certainly on North Carolina moving forward, which we will definitely get into, but like, Um, you, you could just kind of sense the tenseness of that building, you know, and, and I just, I'd come back, you know , after the first half and, and was, uh, writing something on Duke's close call with Sienna where, you know, you're kind of thinking, could the number one seed really, uh, be upset here by, by, you know, Sienna team, and you had all the, the Syracuse things happening with Jerry McNamara leading into that game that we're kind of hovering over things as well.

So it, it, it was just a phenomenal tournament site and then we, we got the game.

To, to, to live up to it.

But I, I, I will not forget, uh, certainly the, the emotions on, uh, a lot of those VCU players.

Um, the, the band director the next day, uh, for, for, for, for their, their follow-up game, you know, he, he's, he's got like 5 changes of clothing.

He, he's wearing like a North Carolina Jordan jersey just to celebrate and rub it into some of those UNC fans that stuck around.

Like, it, it, it was a phenomenal comeback and, um, I think that will definitely be the one thing that I will take away and, um, you know, kudos to Phil, you know, Phil Martelli Jr.

Um, you know, he, he was like the sweat on his head after that game .

You, you know, it was just glistening and then, you know, his, his dad was there and, and, uh, looking like, uh, you know, Phil, Phil, uh, Senior was, was looking like a million bucks and, and had a smile as wide as it can be.

So that will definitely stick out in terms of the first weekend, but, uh, hard to top those, those three games certainly from Greenville.

Real quick, I just got to jump in that, uh, The VCU pep band has been, has been as much of a dynasty as their basketball program.

Like it does, they are good every year.

They bring it, they're a lot of fun, and uh they add a lot to, to VCU's tournament appearances, so shout out to them as well.

I have a scene that I would like to set via text from a um member of the Illinois coaching staff that was sitting right in front of Phil Martel.

Senior and Phil's wife, uh, during the comeback, he said, quote, they were sitting right behind our scouting seats and they were praying Hail Marys for 45 minutes straight during the comeback.

Mrs.

Martelli did not look up one time.

Perfect Philly hoops scene.

That's great.

That is awesome.

I, I, I think Phil Senior gave a hug to pretty much anybody that asked for sure afterwards too, which is not, you know, he, he's not the cuddly personality, uh, in general, but he was after that game.

Uh, yeah, that was a beautiful scene there.

Great to see the sec, the next generation of Martelli looks, uh, every bit as good as the first generation from a coaching standpoint.

But anyway, Kevin, go ahead.

What, what, uh, obviously, Tampa, you saw some stuff too.

I was gonna say, we, we, we had a bit of a snoozer of a Friday, uh, and then a snoozer of a late game, which was needed because we had a lot to catch up on from, from Florida, Iowa.

I mean, first of all, I mean, the atmosphere in that building was amazing, like, it was as much of a Florida home game as any, like, tournament site game I've been to in terms of, like, it was 90+% Gators and As soon as that little skirmish broke out between Fulgaris and Condon, the place was on 11, like the rest of the day, and Todd and.

Uh , some of the Florida assistants were certainly revving it up after they were very unhappy with Alvaro Fulgaris not getting ejected for the punch of the ball, which is a new one you see every time.

Um, I guess we were peanut punching a jump ball, uh, which is apparently legal, as long as you, as long as you don't hit the guy, you don't get ejected is the rule.

So Alvaro stays in and 90 minutes later makes the shot of Iowa basketball history, at least in the 21st century.

Um, I mean, look, it's, it's a great illustration of how difficult it is to repeat as champs because you play so many fifty-fifty games.

Florida lived on the edge more than just about any champ I can remember, uh, last year and lived on the edge again, and Got bit, but, you know, there's a reason that only UConn in 24 has even gotten out of the first weekend in the last decade, uh, as a defending champ.

And there have been some elite teams, number one seeds, not just Florida.

Villanova was a 1 seed in 17, I believe.

Um, North Carolina was a 2 and, uh, in 18, um, Baylor was a number 1 seed in 2022.

Um, the list goes on.

Kansas was a 1 seed in 2023, so it's, it's hard to do, uh, and, you know, we'll obviously circle that, the, the, those final possessions for Florida.

Number one, defensively, uh, getting completely blown by by Bennett Sturtz.

Their plan, as I detailed in my story, please, everyone go read it, uh, was to foul.

They wanted to face guard Boogie Flan or they wanted to face guard Sturtz with Fland.

Uh, forced it to someone else, foul that guy, basically give him two free throws to tie the game with the hope of scoring and either them missing or then scoring and, or going to overtime at worst case, and they botched the execution so badly that they gave up the one thing that they said, that they set out to not do, which was, we cannot give up a 3 here, they're going to try to walk us off.

And I walked them off, uh, and then to go down the floor, and, I mean, Certainly a poetic way for , for the repeat run to end.

I mean, you, you, you, you win the championship with the ball bouncing on the floor, no shot uh gotten up by Emmanuel Sharp, and then you turn around and it's the same exact thing, Xavier Lee, giving up the shot and trying to make a, make a pass, obviously a little different, but the ball dribbling away as time expires.

I mean, you couldn't script a more poetic scene for, for how it all went down.

So, uh, obviously, the Gators are, our first number one seed to go home.

Uh, the Hawkeyes and the, the fighting Ben McCollums, uh, onto the second weekend, and, um, I, I did ask Ben on Friday after they beat, uh, Clemson about sticking with the Drake guys, which I thought was, you know, fascinating in a lot of regards, um, and, you know, they didn't swing on talent , really other than Alvaro.

Alvaro was the one guy from the portal that was like a big swing, and it paid off.

Sunday, it hadn't for most of the year.

And he said, look, like, the thing I've realized in the last year being at this level compared to Northwest Missouri State is there's so much outside noise and there's so much that I, I, I think the quote was like, I need people whose guns are pointed out, not in.

And I knew I had good people that I could trust and I would live with the talent deficiencies essentially.

And He had just enough, but like their belief throughout that game, taking punches from Florida, as Florida made runs, I, I think you have to think about that of just like, They, they, they, they did not roll over when there were opportunities to, in essentially a road game in the round of 32 against one of the best teams in college basketball.

Yeah, so many great points about them and, and, and their deal, and it's just, it, I'm so intrigued because I spent time with them when they were at Drake, and they very clearly believed, look, we know what we are doing, and we've got the guys to do it.

And so to move from D2 to the Missouri Valley, is like, whoa, that's, that's impressive, and they did, and dominated the league, and Sturtz is just a marvel, you know, he never leaves the floor, and he never gets flustered.

Uh, he may make a few mistakes, but man, oh man, he makes the right decision 98 times out of 100, um, in terms of ball distribution, taking shots, picking, feeling, pick and roll, uh, all those things.

And So they, yes, the belief, I think, in what they are doing in their own concept is Incredibly strong, and we'll see now they're, they're gonna have to reiterate it or or do it with some different people.

But uh I have great faith that Ben McCollum knows how to do that.

And then, yeah, getting Alvaro uh came from Robert Morris, and I remember watching him there, he helped get Robert Morris to the tournament last year.

And he was just this very skilled, big guy, you know, could shoot it, could put it on the floor and go to the basket.

Um, and he showed up there, I thought, oh, OK, that, that could really work.

And then, as you, as you said, it, it worked in, in blips, kind of throughout the season, until it worked big time yesterday, and I, I hope you guys saw the, the picture that was on Twitter, uh, of Alvaro posing with the, with the hand, uh, the, you know, the wrist flip after the shot, and then the Iowa fans behind him.

And it is a Renaissance painting, I mean, of emotion.

It is just fantastic.

You know, people losing their minds, people stunned press row, some great looks on press row.

Kevin Brockway covers the Gators, didn't seem overly impressed, but other people freaking out.

And then there was the one dude, the older guy that appeared honest to be like checking email, like, what are you doing, man?

You, you, your team just won a game in the most dramatic way possible, and he's looking down at a device of some kind, it appeared.

But anyway, Phenomenal stuff.

And the, the endgame strategy is very interesting, and Kevin, I mean, that's who Todd Golden is.

He is a probability guy, he's an analytics guy, uh, that's what the way their staff rolls.

They will do things that you would think nobody would do, like, intentionally foul to give a team a chance to tie a game with you in the final seconds, but the strategy behind it, as you said, is, hey, we want the last possession.

And if that doesn't work, we're going to overtime, and we're better, so we're gonna win in overtime.

Uh, except, yes, they didn't they.

They didn't stop the ball, they didn't foul him, they gave up a wide open shot.

The, the thing that's interesting, and I actually texted Jonathan Sapphire, who's their, uh, analytics guru on their staff.

I texted him this morning and I said, when you're free, like, I wanna talk, and I wanna, like, I talked to him briefly last night, but he was obviously in shock, and I like.

I, I wanna talk through the decision, if you're going to foul, not to just let the ball into Sturtz and foul him.

And I understand analytically, and there's a chart, um, I, I tweeted it, but Eric Shapiro, who's a big analytics junkie, I think does work for a Michigan blog, does a great job.

Um, and, and the chart basically shows when you're supposed to foul in the scenario and when you're not supposed to, and it's like really like a 70% free throw shooter is the, is the breaking point.

And, uh, but it depends based on win probability, all these things, right?

So, Florida wanted it not to be Sturtz who's like 85%.

And I said, look, like, I understand the numbers of that, but like, if your concept here, if the angle of we are going to foul in this position is if we foul, we guarantee we do not lose the game in regulation and we get a chance to go to overtime at the worst.

It doesn't really matter to me if the 85% free throw shooter at the line or the 60% free throw.

Ideally, yeah, it's the 60% guy, but If the concern was simply do not lose the game, we will win this in overtime if we have 5 more minutes to play.

I don't know why you don't just play soft and, and, and hack whoever catches it because they were clearly in position to try to keep the ball out of Sturtz's hands.

It did not work.

Um, Xavion Lee did a really bad job of, of switching or at least containing Sturtz on the, on the screen at the foul line.

The other thing I would say, if you're gonna keep the ball out of Sturtz's hands, why are we guarding the inbounder?

Why is that guy not sort of trapping to Sturtz?

Like, if the goal was to keep the ball out of Sturch's hands, it was a, it was poorly, poorly executed.

And if, I, I'm not sure why the goal needed to be so drastically to keep the ball out of Surgeon's hands.

So, um, I like the idea.

I think it's fascinating.

Uh, the execution was horrific and cost them their chance at a repeat.

Well, that, that's, that's the great thing about college basketball, right?

And that's kind of why we love it, what, why we love the tournament in particular, because it is a game.

Of 18 to 20, maybe 26 year olds at this point as they shuffle out of the, the, the rotations there.

But, you know, it, it, it is about those execution in, in those moments, right?

And, and for, for the perfectly laid plans, as good as these coaches are, as, as analyst.

Politically driven as some of, as some of them are in some of those key situations.

It all comes down to execution, which probably leads into Pat's game that, that he saw, uh, last night.

I mean, just in terms of having a guy come off the bench who had not scored a point in, in, in perfectly executing.

You know, with under 5 seconds to go, you know, a layup to, to win at the buzzer.

I mean, like that, that is the tournament in, in a nutshell.

It comes down to just those, those fine margins of execution, and for all the, the players that you can throw out there, all the great plays that these coaches can diagram, it, it all comes down to, to those, those clutch moments, and uh we, we certainly saw a couple of them, uh, to, to get some teams into the Sweet 16.

Yeah, I, I mean.

I love the fact that this is not the Nuggets and the Thunder, you know, executing perfectly every possession and guys that are just phenomenally talented, making every shot.

So we get, we get variants, and it's, that's part of the fun of it, for sure.

Uh, and it does, yes, this whole end-game strategy.

Certainly loomed very large in Saint John's, Kansas, which was the best game I saw.

My 1st 4 games, kind of like Kevin's were, were not great, you know, that the Utah State, Villanova was a good game, but for the most part, you know, what They did what they were supposed to do against US State, and I saw only the last 4 minutes of that because I was busy writing about Dylan Darling.

Known as bells to Rick Pitino, because, to quote Rick, he's got balls the size of church bells.

So, that's a Pitino special there.

Uh, so, Bells ends up winning the game for Saint John's after, as he, he himself said, I was garbage tonight, and he wasn't lying.

But the way this thing broke down was fascinating, you know, Saint John's.

Just an absolute, you know, hair on fire defensive squad, athletic, long, relentless.

It's a classic Pitino team.

Nobody I've ever seen more consistently coaches effort than Pitino.

Maybe Tom Izzo, but I, I, I, I'm not even sure that Izzo's teams are as consistently relentless as Pitino's teams.

And they are all over Kansas, and they're beating them, they're up 14 with 9 minutes to play, they're up 13 with like 6 minutes to play, it's over.

Except they just stopped executing offensively, stopped making shots, and then Kansas finally made a few, and then Kansas went to the glass like mad men, because they play hard too.

Um, and all of a sudden it's tied with 13 seconds left.

The fouls at this point are 10 to 2.

The Saint John's people were well aware that the fouls were 10 to 2.

They weren't real happy about that, but it gave Self a chance, and Self, a lot of people think, and I'm not gonna disagree that he's as good an in-game coach as we've ever seen.

Uh, his strategy is, yeah, we're gonna use our fouls, and we're gonna chop down their amount of time to execute a winning play.

So, inbounds, foul, inbounds, foul, inbounds, foul, inbounds, foul , 4 times.

That gets the clock down to 3.9 seconds, they're inbounding just on the far side of midcourt.

And they get the ball to Darling, and I'm sitting there , and I'm like, why, why does he have the ball?

This guy, I mean, he, he cannot make a shot.

Uh, like, he was, he has missed his last 16 3-pointers.

He was 0 for 6 in the Big East championship game.

He was 0 for 6, in the first round, and then he was 0 for 4 in this game, and they weren't close, they were not close to going in.

It was like, hide your eyes, oh my God, he's shooting again.

Uh, and I can't believe Rick is putting the game in his hands, but this was, this was Dylan Darling's own call.

He said to Rick, he said, let's run power.

All right, we're gonna run power.

Power is a high screen, and he comes off the screen, and he's, can drive, or he could possibly kick to the corner, or he could even throw back to the screener, who's Zuby Ejafor, who's their best player, uh, except none of those things really happen.

Zuby doesn't set the screen, just fades out of the way.

Flori Badunga, the big guy for Kansas, disastrously goes with him and leaves the paint wide open.

Darling starts to drive, he's got a kick to the corner wide open because Darren Peterson and, uh, uh, I can't remember who else said the Melvin Council, I think, totally blew their defensive assignments.

Like, you wanna talk about variants here?

Stuff was going on all over the place, and none of it was the way it was supposed to be.

But Darling then gets to the rim, jumps off his wrong foot, he's left-handed, he's trying to shoot right-handed, but he does what comes naturally, goes off his right foot, so he's kind of awkwardly off balance, leans out, flips the thing up, uh, the ball actually goes to the net after the game ended, so Dylan Darling did go 40 minutes without scoring, it's like 40.05 before he, he got the, the, the points, and then all hell breaks loose, and he gets buried and You know, Pitino tells the story of uh You know, calling him bells, and uh Darling, you know, it was, he played last year at Idaho State, Big Sky, so shout out to the Big Sky, as their, their commissioner, look, they know what they're, they know who they are.

The commissioner's tweeting after the game, you can get from our league to there.

Maybe not by playing at Ohio State, Idaho State, but you can start at Idaho State and then go there, you know, that's how you gotta market yourself at that level.

And um.

You know, just a guy that, that I don't think anybody from Saint John's really thought it was a great thing to have the ball in his hands at the end until it was a great thing, and they're in the Sweet 16.

So, I don't know whether you guys got to see that ending, but it was something.

Well, Pat, on the, on the fouling thing with Kansas too, didn't you think that they could have even taken more time off?

That was kind of my initial impression as they were doing it, they could have waited just a little bit, and there could have only been a second or two left.

Yeah, they, they, they probably went a little bit quick.

I think they were scared of letting the ball go past midcourt and somebody at least getting into a shooting motion on a 3, and getting 33 free throws.

But sure, they could have, they could have taken it down a little bit lower.

Yeah, the, the, the darling basket happened quite literally as Alvaro Fulgaris was peanut punching, uh, Alex Condon.

So it was, it was definitely chaos.

Uh, I did watch it afterwards.

I, I just think it's an incredible story.

I mean, you mentioned he was at Idaho State.

I mean, look, it, it's incredibly poetic that That, the, the biggest offseason saga at Saint John's was the point guards and the lack thereof, quite frankly, uh, that he had recruited Ian Jackson from North Carolina and Isaiah Sellers from Stanford, like, their whole roster is big schools, I'm not gonna say silver spoon because they're tough, but like, Guys who have been touted and, and huge players at the highest levels of college basketball.

And the sort of last piece of the puzzle was, we don't really have a true point guard, so we better go take this guy Darling, who could be the, if all hell breaks loose, we've got a point guard.

And Dylan Darling was a guy that a lot of people in the portal thought was too small, wasn't necessarily physical enough, and, I mean, he's been an essential piece of the puzzle.

As, as you said, it's been bumpy shooting the basketball at times.

He's not been great, but they have needed him to get to this moment, and then, again, of all these guys, of, I mean, this is a roster of millionaires at Saint John's.

This is a very highly paid group.

Um, they live in $10,000 plus a month apartments in Manhattan and have, have great lives, and that Dylan Darling.

Who was in Pocatello, Idaho last year and the year before was, uh, on the police at Washington State and couldn't get off the bench.

That that's the guy that is taking Rick Pitino to the Sweet 16 and beating Bill Self, potentially ending Bill Self's career.

We'll talk about that in a bit.

I mean, That's as good a story as you could ever write.

So, unbelievable finish, no question.

Yeah, I mean , it was, yes, it was a beautiful thing, and I asked him, I said, you know, what was your reaction when you heard from Saint John's, and he said it was Talik Brown, the assistant, who contacted him first, he said, well, I was starstruck.

And then he said, but I grew up being the kid who skipped school Thursday and Friday of the first round of the tournament to watch the games.

I wanted to play in those games.

It's like, Saint John's can get me there.

I'm, I think a lot of people thought Saint John's would get him there as the 10th guy on the rotation, but, you know, he ended up, and Pitino loves him, he loves, he loves the confidence, he loves the The fearlessness that he, uh, that he plays with, and, um, You know, again, he, he doesn't make a lot of shots, but boy, he made the one that, uh, that they'll talk about for a long time there.

And yes, to your point, Kevin Mikeropoli, the, the rainmaker, uh, NIL man for them, was outside the locker room, just like, howling, hugging everybody, kissed Darling on the cheek.

I mean, I've seen him as a thoroughbred owner.

He's had, he's had a lot of great racehorses, he's taken several to the Kentucky Derby, he's never won a Derby, but he's won a lot of other big races.

And this was, this was Ripoli, like after the Belmont Stakes, uh, was him after this game, like, just, you know, I, I, out of his mind with, with joy.

So, all right, we do have a couple of other things to get to.

First , let's just take a quick look at the matchups in the Sweet 16, and give me the one that you guys maybe are most excited to see.

I'll give them to you, uh, Duke Saint John's, which we talked about.

Uh, Michigan State, UConn, whoa, those are a couple of really enticing, uh, regional semis in DC, uh, in San Jose, where I'm gonna be Arizona, Arkansas, talk about enticing Texas Purdue.

Uh, and then in the, uh, Midwest in Chicago, where Kevin will be Michigan, Alabama, Tennessee, Iowa State, uh, and then, uh, the fourth region in the south in Houston, Iowa, Nebraska.

That's like your, your Black Friday football no0 game, right, uh, Brian?

And, uh, except now it means something in basketball, and Illinois, Houston, which should be an absolute battle.

Uh, give me 11 game there you guys like.

Go ahead, Brian.

Well, I, I cannot complain about the East Regional, uh, this year.

I mean, 5 national titles, uh, amongst the coaches.

Uh, John Shire has one as a player and an assistant, so you could probably throw those two in there as well.

18 Final Fours over 2100 wins.

Uh, I, I, either one of those, I mean, it, it, it is that good, and I, I would probably lean, uh, Duke Saint John's, just, uh, obviously #1 overall seed, number 1, you know, national player of the Year.

What, what's going to happen in that one at the building is gonna be just electric, given those 4 fan bases and the ticket prices certainly are reflecting that, uh, certainly early on here before teams have even made their, their travel plans.

So I think it's, it, it, it's gonna be a great atmosphere.

I would single out Tennessee, Iowa State as maybe the more interesting one just in terms of That that might be more of a track meet going up and down.

I, I, I'm curious what Nta meant if he's gonna be, you know, kind of getting into things after, uh, going scoreless in the first round.

That could be an interesting matchup.

Although you, you mentioned it, Pat.

I mean, Iowa and Nebraska, I think that Nebraska could go from not winning a tournament game ever to the Elite Eight in, you know, a blink of the eye, and, and to play Iowa while, while they have done it, and in a rubber match no less because those two teams split earlier in the season.

That that narrative wise, that that would, that would probably be it, but in terms of actually , you know, play on the court, I, I would probably flag Tennessee, Iowa State as as another game.

That would be interesting to me, at least, you know, watching those two teams after the first week and especially how, uh, you know, Iowa State responded to the Jefferson injury, which was obviously a huge one in terms of losing your leading scorer.

If they can get, whether they get him back or not, I, I think that could be a very intriguing game as well.

Yeah, um, I, I, I can't wait for Illinois, Houston.

I mean, it's, the, the seas have parted somewhat for Houston.

I mean, you, you get rid of Florida from the region, um, you know, they are very different than the three teams in, in, in, in their pod remaining .

Um, obviously, Illinois, Nebraska, and Iowa, all extremely skilled, all can really, really shoot.

Uh, Houston wants to take your lunch money, uh, and they will have the, the crowd on their side.

Uh, look, I, I, I think that game, I'm not gonna say it's for the spot in the Final Four, cause I'm not gonna rule out Iowa and Nebraska, but Illinois played Iowa and Nebraska pretty well.

Um, they won at Iowa, uh, they lost on a buzzer beat in Nebraska once and then beat them on the road the second time.

Um, that, that, that game just feels so huge, like winner, winner potentially to the Final Four.

I mean, for Illinois to potentially get back to the Final Four for the first time since 005 would be an incredible story.

The Illinois making it to the Elite Eight and then not getting to the Final Four because of Iowa or Nebraska would be an almost equally good story.

So, uh, I, I'm certainly excited for that.

I wish it wasn't the, uh, the latest of the tips on, on Thursday to make sure everybody gets to see it, but I think it'll be, it'll be great.

And that, I mean, that window, Thursday late night with that and Arkansas, Arizona has a chance to be.

Special, I think.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the game I'm looking at there, and I, I, boy, Arizona's favorite, I think by 8.5, it seems like a big number, uh, Arkansas, woo, talent, uh, ability to get buckets, Darius Acuff and Braden Burries and Coa Pete on the floor, some elite, elite freshman talent, um.

And Arkansas will not be scared, that's for sure.

Uh, Calipari has them playing with great confidence.

Uh, they, they still, they don't guard, this, this is not a great defensive team for Cal by any stretch.

So they're just gonna have to make shots.

It's gonna have to be, let's go, let's see who can make the most shots.

Arizona is Huge, and knows what they're doing and plays their style the way, you know, they can dictate style pretty well to teams, but I think Arkansas is just gonna say, we're running, let's go, and let's see who makes the most shots, so I can't wait for that one.

That will be fun.

Uh, yeah, we got a, we got a great Thursday, Friday of, uh, of basketball coming up, and that will lead to a Saturday, Sunday, and then the Final Four .

We'll come back and we'll talk about those next week.

But before then, Uh, we are taping this, it's 12:20 Eastern right now on Monday.

Hubert Davis is still the coach at North Carolina.

I don't know how long that's going to remain the case.

Uh, Kevin, what's the latest you're hearing there?

And we'll talk about potential successors in that job here, uh, after that.

Go ahead.

Yeah, I, I would tend to agree with your estimation that I doubt that by the next time we're podcasting that Hubert Davis is the head coach of North Carolina.

Um, I, I think it's a marriage that, uh, quite frankly, hasn't worked as well as anyone probably hoped ever since, you know, obviously slaying Coach K, uh, in, in New Orleans at the Final Four.

you know, it's funny when I was making my sort of hot seat list and making the rounds with Industry folk, what, you know, 4 weeks ago, 5 weeks ago, um, I was debating whether North Carolina even deserved a mention, and I was like, you know, like, they're pretty good, like, you know, they're having a good season, you know, we'll see if Wilson can come back, but like, they're probably gonna get like a 4 or 5 seed and, you know, as long as they don't embarrass themselves, like they're probably gonna be all right.

But I decided to keep him in his probably one more year, but you never know, and this was the but you never know.

I mean, a catastrophic collapse of a loss, um, that makes you reevaluate just about everything, and the buyout's low if they wanna part with Hubert.

I don't think Hubert will go kicking and screaming from what I've been told.

Like, I think he, and I give him credit for this, like, uh, Hubert Hubert is not about Hubert Davis.

Hubert Hubert deeply cares about the North Carolina brand, and I, I do think.

I think he strongly believes he is the right person to lead it forward, but I don't think he's gonna fight everybody else if they say he isn't.

Uh, and it won't cost that much to, to move on from him.

It will cost a lot to replace him, uh, especially if they go into the college ranks, and that will be the fascinating question is, is, is where does the successor come from?

But, uh, I, I would expect a resolution.

You know, maybe by the time this is published, certainly by, you know, the next couple of days, cause if North Carolina is going to make a move, then you need to get a move on before the portal opens in 2 weeks.

Yeah, and I, I was sitting right across from the UNC bench, and I could just see throughout that comeback by VCU.

I could see, uh, Bubba Cunningham, the athletic director, uh, you know, this, this school chancellor was right behind him too, and just like going from so excited to like ashen for, for both of those guys, you know, I mean, it was just visible, you know, to, to see it on their faces.

Certainly during that game and and and in the aftermath, cause they, I think they understood what that meant for for Hubert, and this will definitely be, this will not be a firing, this will definitely be termed a mutual parting of the way or even actually more flowery language than mutual parting of the ways, um, you know, I think that's Probably the, the, the biggest thing for, for Carolina is they don't, they don't have that killer instinct, or else this, this would have been an easy decision.

It wouldn't have taken, you know, 72 hours or whatever it's, it's gonna ultimately be, um, you know, from the actual decision getting made to, uh, what, what transpires here.

I, I think it's definitely more interesting to see, yes, this is probably going to be the first outside the, uh, outside the family hire in a, in a long time, which means a lot to a lot of those Carolina folks, which is going to be, uh, add another layer of intrigue, I think, uh, to, to this opening.

Um, and, and to me it, it, it does go back to as, as good as, as Hubert was in that first year and, and the, the mic drop of all moments in that, that rivalry that means so much to those, those folks around the triangle, the development has not been there for the program, you know, I mean, I think that the X's and O's have not been there, um, you know, the question.

I mean, that they, they, they have, have flip-flopped from like being, being good defensively when you lose your best player to not playing defense at all at times.

Like it's just the development at the program itself, development of some of those players, some of the roster misses that were, you know, Hubert led.

Um, you know, I think you, you can also point to as well over these last couple of years.

I mean, This is, this is one of, if, if not the best job in, in college basketball.

And, um, you know, to have what is happening at Duke, to have North Carolina State making news now in the triangle, uh, with Will Wade there, um, I, I think it's definitely concerning for, for a lot of, uh, Carolina boosters to, to be in this position, but I also know this, this could be a good reset for the program moving forward to get a guy that, that can bring them back to kind of the level that they expect and frankly, that, uh, Hubert has not hit, you know, since his first season there and, and, uh, what he did in, in that Final Four.

Yeah, before we get to the successor, I just, I Wanna make a note, I, to me, the most.

Uh, successful.

Within the family, uh, duration I've ever seen in college sports with the North Carolina basketball Dean Smith family, 65 consecutive years.

Of this being a Dean Smith inspired and led program.

He got there in 1961, he was there till 1997.

They hired Bill Guthridge, who took him to the Final Four.

Nice job, Bill.

Still, he wasn't really cut out to be the long-term guy.

They hired Matt Dougherty, player on the 1982 national championship team.

That was a bad one, that didn't work.

But then that gave them a chance to get Roy Williams.

Who won 3 national titles himself, and arguably is the greatest coach of the 21st century, if you just go by what's happened since 2000, and follow that with Hubert Davis.

And if Hubert Davis is, you know, uh, he didn't work out.

Well, he did, as you said, he went to the national championship game in 2022.

He had the two greatest non-national championship flag plant wins in North Carolina history.

He beat Mikes in his last home game, and then he beat Mikes in his last game, and the latter was in the Final Four.

So, if that's what you're going out with, that, that's still not bad.

I absolutely, look , I agree and I get it, that that's what they've done since then is not good enough for North Carolina.

But holy moly, he gave them some moments, and so I think that should be remembered.

And Hubert, yes, he is a, he is an incredibly nice, gracious, unpretentious person, who he will not make this hard.

On Carolina.

Uh, but they're probably, they're almost certainly going outside the family, finally, for the first time in 65 years.

Kevin , who are they gonna get?

It's a, it's a great question.

And as you said, the, the, the, the family aspect is probably the most interesting part of this in the sense that I think there's a perception that North Carolina is the best job in college basketball.

You certainly make the case for it, but they haven't had a real search to know, right?

Like we, we, we've never once gone through this and said, OK, so who actually would take Carolina?

We've never gotten to that point.

I do think we nearly got there with Mark Few, uh, the last time around.

Uh, it was, I think it was very close and if North Carolina had been a bit more patient, they may have gotten him, but he was coaching deep, deep into that tournament.

That being said, uh, I do not think Mark Few is the head coach this time around.

I don't think he's, I think he's too close to retirement.

Um, look, I, I think the swing you will hear, uh, most about is Billy Donovan.

Um, the Bulls are, Not quite in disarray, but they are drifting aimlessly, uh, through, through the NBA with no clear path to, uh, contention.

Billy's 60.

He's probably not gonna be the guy that leads a long rebuild.

I don't think he's getting fired in Chicago from what my NBA sources tell me.

Although I'm sure we could tap in Chris Mannix for help on, on that regard.

But I think the thing to remember with, with Billy is, He hated recruiting back when recruiting was, you sit around and you hang out with the kid, and you talk to his family and he like, he hated the, the, the nonstop of it.

And I do think the nonstop will be annoying to him if he comes back to college .

But he is the rare example of someone who did not like the college landscape and the college landscape maybe being a little bit more Billy friendly.

Right?

I mean, now, now, he can hire a GM that can handle a lot of the roster construction stuff.

He'll have to get on the phone with the kid eventually or the agent eventually to, you know, assuage some fears.

But like, Carolina will sell itself.

Whoever's running the roster construction arm will sell itself, you know, will, will be able to sell it pretty effectively, and I would imagine they'll have great candidates.

And Billy Donovan would be by far the best XNO coach in college basketball tomorrow if he walked into the sport.

Like, Everybody should be really, really scared of North Carolina if they can pull off Billy Donovan.

I'm not saying it's getting done, but I do think that is going to be the top target.

And then you have all the sitting star college coaches, right?

Tommy Lloyd at Arizona, could you get him?

TJ Otzelberger, his buyouts manageable at Iowa State.

He seems to have a great relationship with Jamie Pollard.

He loves Ames.

I don't think, I don't know if he loves Ames so much.

And if he did, he probably wouldn't have moved his buyout from, Something like 18 million to 4 in his last contract extension.

Um, you know, I, I think Todd Golden and Nate Oates are probably not the characters that North Carolina would traditionally, uh, embrace.

I would also tell you that those two guys, maybe stylistically would be perfect for what North Carolina wants.

The issue with them, they both have massive buyouts.

Both would be eight-figure decisions.

I believe it would cost something like 16 million to get Todd Golden out of his contract right now.

I don't think North Carolina's paying that.

I just don't think that's overly realistic.

So, um, I have a hard time believing it drops past that type of group of names.

If it does, I think you start hearing about maybe a Mark Bington at Vanderbilt.

The floor would probably be Josh Shirtz from Saint Louis.

I don't think we get to that point, but if we did, there would be a layup.

They would hire him and he'd probably do quite well because you'd give him great resources and he's a pretty darn good ball coach.

But I think the name you will hear come into focus early on is Billy Donovan, and we'll see how real that gets, I think, in a hurry, but, uh, he has rebuffed plenty of college tutors before.

I think the landscape has made it more feasible now and the bulls situation is maybe less stable than it had been.

Well, I, I think that too is, you know, we, we've seen these last couple of blue blood searches.

We saw it at Kentucky, we saw it in Indiana, we've seen it at, at multiple places where it, it's almost a little bit of a humbling, uh, for, for a lot of these programs as they do go out there and search, whether it's buyouts that have been prevented.

In terms of actually getting the guy that they would ultimately want to where, where, you know, who actually is the right fit.

I, I think it has been a little bit humbling and, and, you know, to Pat's earlier point about hiring outside of the family, like, you know, it, it's not lost on certainly me who's been around the program in the last couple of weeks, and others that Um, you know, they're essentially trying to blow up the Dean Dome right now.

And, um, you know, the, the whole stadium situation there at North Carolina has definitely led to a lot of fractures, I would say, um, you know, not only in terms of the booster base, but, uh, what, uh, those at the school want and would like to pursue.

I think that's kind of hovering over this entire search as well.

Um, and maybe that's a good thing if you're talking about, uh, opening up the wallet and going after some of those guys who do have some of the massive buyouts.

Um, so that, that is another factor.

Um, you know, like you said, if, if it's Josh Shirtz.

I, I know it might not be well received to hire the, the Saint Louis coach, but like that would be a great fit, you know, for, for what North Carolina needs, especially if you can bring in somebody who has some strong ties to the roster building.

Like TJ would be great, um, and, and certainly that would make a lot of sense.

That would kind of tick off the boxes, especially if he can get, uh, you know, Iowa State into the Elite Eight or further.

Um, you know, that would, that'd be like, all right, all right, easy, easy done.

Everybody's happy.

We, we can kind of move forward.

He would be great in terms of roster construction at North Carolina, especially with the resources they would be able to provide.

It's just kind of like, Uh, you know, they're, they're, they're just in a difficult, you know, position, you know, just in terms of the timing, like it definitely would have been greater if, if they could have, if Hubert could have, you know, made the case to come back and, and you do the search actually next year, but, um, you know, you have multiple ADs at this point that are in the building, you have a school president who is Already put the, put their hands on in terms of the, the football search, you have really just everything going on there in Chapel Hill, like it, it, it just contributes to, to, I think, factors if you would, uh, loosely term it that involving the search, but, uh, hopefully if, if they end up with somebody like Josh Shurtz, all right, it's, it's job well done and you know, you're moving forward with Carolina, but there, there's a lot of other things at play here.

Uh, yeah, I, I don't think they're getting to Josh Shirts.

I think it's gonna be done before then with somebody who's accomplished much more, and I love Josh Shirts, but, uh, there is a bit of a battle for the soul of North Carolina going on right now.

Maybe that's a little bit too dramatic, but What we're seeing in terms of going outside the family here, what we're hearing about the Dean Dome, you know, and building something completely different and off-campus.

North Carolina has done things a certain way for a long time.

And It's now reached a point, we reached it really with Bill Belichick, where it's like, OK, things are different, and there are different voices being heard, and different people carrying the day, and that's gonna now extend into the basketball situation.

But I think at the end of the day, this is not a job where a lot of people are looking outside saying, well, what's our alignment?

No, they're gonna say, and that's North Carolina, man, give me that job.

And I think if you get Billy Donovan, and I had always heard this when he was at Florida.

You know, Florida was not worried about losing him to anywhere other than the NBA or North Carolina.

And then I heard when he was in the NBA the only place he might wanna leave to come back was North Carolina.

So, if you can get Billy Donovan, who's one of the greatest coaches in Recent college basketball history, if, if having last coach in 2014 is recent, I think it is, uh, go get him.

Go get him.

This will work.

Kevin, you, you said, I mean, the way, the way the game is constructed now, I don't think it would be uncomfortable for him or something he couldn't operate in.

Start with him.

Tommy Lloyd, I think, yeah, would be sitting out there as a very nice option too.

Uh, he's like Mark Few, but he's younger, uh, he's on top of his game, um, you know, I think there's a lot to like there.

North Carolina is gonna be fine, it's just the, the, the, the tension points are real, I think, as far as where the program, where the soul of the program, I guess, is going.

Uh, all right.

Secondly, if we have North Carolina and Kansas open in the same year, does the earth just split open and swallow us all?

I mean, that's like when we had what we had, you know, Alabama football setting off that chain reaction when Saban retired.

Uh, but Bill Self , pretty non-committal yesterday when asked about his future.

And with his health concerns , you know, is he, is he ready to hang it up, and do they just immediately give it to Jacques Vaughn, and at least we don't have a A prolonged search there.

What do you guys think ?

Yeah, I, I don't think it's coming open, you know, like that's, that's the thing.

If, if what whatever decision Bill makes, you know, and, and I do think he will take some time and take a couple of weeks and only talk to his doctors, but, but his family, talk to the administration there like this, this will definitely be Bill's decision, but like.

It, it's probably almost assuredly going to be passed over to, to Jacques at this point.

And I think that's, that's kind of been the plan as soon as he kind of came on board when he said, all right, former NBA guy who, who probably could have gotten another job at, at, uh, a couple of cycles, you know, in, in, in, back in the NBA to, to go to Kansas, that this was.

Kind of a move that has telegraphed that.

And certainly the health issues maybe have accelerated the timetable, but, um, that, that makes plenty of sense for everybody.

I think that is also notable that like Bill would still be around the program.

Like he, he's not somebody who's just gonna, you know, move, move to the beach in San Diego and, uh, you know, go at arm's length at in Lawrence, you know, he, he's gonna be the Roy Williams type that's still gonna be showing up at games and Still gonna be around to help out as needed, like that would, that would be another factor if, if this did, if there was an actual search, you know, you could see that kind of being maybe uh turning off a few candidates, um, you know, if there were a truly open, all right, who wants this job, come, come and talk to us, uh, type of type of situation.

So I think that is kind of the other thing that's in the background here and there, there in with the Jayhawks.

Yeah, I, I would have told you in the fall that I would be very surprised if Bill Self-coached another year after this.

Uh, I would have then told you probably on February 1st that I would be pretty surprised if Bill Self didn't coach another year, and now we're back to sort of fifty-fifty.

Um, look, I think the health stuff obviously takes priority and by many accounts, it seems that this is something that It's not only like very scary for his long-term health, but also is impacting sort of his day to day at Kansas and like how much he can be involved.

And I, I don't think Bill is the type of person who'd want to be quote unquote, half-assing it, right?

Like he wants to work.

He like wants, he wants to, if he doesn't feel he's at the level it will take to win national championships, he's not gonna keep doing this.

And, you know, I, I, I, I think, I think in his ideal world, he would give it one more year to solidify that Jacques is the guy, that Jacques has full control of the place.

I know Jacques was very, very involved in decision making in terms of who would they recruit last summer and fall.

Uh, that would certainly continue.

Here into the portal.

He was very involved.

Uh, if there were staff changes to be made, there was a possibility that Tony Bland could get a head coaching job this cycle.

I was told that if Tony Bland had gotten a job, the replacement would be picked more or less by Jacques Vaughn, not by Bill Self.

Um, so take that for, for what you will.

But I do think I think there would at least be some pressure if it happened now to investigate the other options.

May not even announce that it's a search.

And I would imagine if, if Travis Goff, the AD has been doing his job, he already has, um, kicked the tires, etc.

But like, man, like.

I, I just have a hard time seeing it get past Shaq.

And, um, I think that's understandable.

I think he's, he's certainly beloved at Kansas.

Uh, he has the coaching credentials.

He doesn't have the college coaching credentials, but that's not something that can't be overcome.

And I think the thing that would be fascinating if, in fact, it's Jacques Vaughn would be like, What does the structure of the program look like?

Is this a place that goes heavy into a GM that runs a lot of the roster building?

Do they pay Jacques a little less than, you know, elite tier college coach?

Do they give him the same type of 56, 7-year contract that you're traditionally used to, like, let's, let's be very clear, like if, if Kansas was trying to recruit Tommy Lloyd to come be the next head coach at Kansas, it's how much money we have, how much, how many years we can give you, how much of it's guaranteed.

You're not getting him on a five-year deal or a four-year deal.

Like Jack Vaughn, you probably could.

And I think if Kansas is smart , especially if they're thinking about roster building being more important and maybe Jacques being a little less involved in that and bringing in someone from the outside to do that, whether from the NBA or from college.

I wonder if, if the structure looks a little bit different.

Obviously, it would be, you know, North Carolina's gonna have to spend if they want Billy Donovan.

Billy Donovan ain't working cheap, but not saying Jacques Vaughn's gonna be, you know, throwing, working for 500,000.

He's, he's not gonna be the same Bonaventure coach with Woj, but he will, uh, he, he doesn't need Bill Self money, that's for sure.

And I think that's an interesting factor in all this.

Yeah, that, I mean, and I think if you look, that, do you, are you getting a hometown discount because he's a former player and he wants to be there, and he's already on the staff, uh, that, that you don't have to do when you're going outside.

Like, uh, Hubert Davis, I don't think was ever getting paid astronomical sums in North Carolina.

Mark Pope came and took Kentucky, uh, he's getting paid fine, but he, you know, he, if they had paid, if they'd gotten Scott Drew, they would have ended up spending more money.

So, you get the former player, you appeal somewhat to their loyalties, uh, you plug them in there.

I think Jacques Vaughn would be very popular, uh, and then he just has to win.

It's interesting, he was a Roy Williams guy, not a Bill Self guy, but it doesn't matter, he was a Kansas guy, most of all.

And it's interesting to watch them during games.

Like you said, Kevin, I think he's very involved structurally with the program.

But during games, he's very deferential, which I understand, Bill Self knows how to coach a game, so you don't have to be micromanaging or butting in or, or trying to get your two cents in there, but he, he sits back and lets Bill coach the game.

Uh, so I'll be, you know, I wanna see his personality, uh, if and when this actually happens.

So.

Uh, again, wild times.

We've got a Sweet 16 and we may have Kansas and North Carolina open.

Not, not a pretty slow, uh, news week here on the, uh, on the college basketball front.

Uh, in fact, there's been so much news that we don't even have a snarky, stupid story at the end here.

We're just gonna sign off.

Uh, thank you for listening.

Uh, we'll be back next week to preview the Final Four, to review the Sweet 16, Elite Eight, and preview the Final Four.

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