Michigan Win Title, Auriemma Has Final Four Meltdown, UNC Hires Mike Malone | Others Receiving Votes

Hi.

Welcome to the show.

Others receiving votes, it's the day after.

The national championship game, the 2025, 2020206 college basketball season is over.

It's an absolute mess of a championship game, but a really fun season and I think a fun tournament.

Uh, we're gonna get into that and many other things, Big 10 hegemony.

Whether the transfer portal rules all.

Geno versus Dawn on the women's side, North Carolina hired who, and uh whether Dusty May has his eye on the NBA.

I'm Pat 40 joined as always by my colleagues, Brian Fisher and Kevin Sweeney.

Uh, gentlemen, somehow we've all made it back home from Indy.

Congrats to everybody.

Uh, just give me your quick broad brush takeaways from Michigan's 69-63 victory over UConn.

Uh, it was inartistic to say the least, but, uh, what, what stood out to you all from the game and from Michigan's title run?

Uh, Kevin, why don't you go first?

Yeah, it's funny because I, I wanna say a month ago when we were on the show, uh, I, I said, Like, look forward to this tournament because the style of basketball has changed in college basketball.

If you're not a big college hoops head, like, trust me, like, we're playing fast, we're scoring points, we're not turning the ball over anymore, we're shooting a lot of threes, we're making a lot of threes.

Yeah, then, then the Final Four happened and it was, like, slog fest after slogfest, except for the Michigan round on Saturday, but, um, look, I, I give Michigan a lot of credit, um, you know, obviously, you know, grinded out a win without a fully healthy Axel Endeborg uh on Monday.

Um , I, I think when I think about the year that Michigan had, Uh, and I think back to being in Vegas and watching them just bludgeon Gonzaga and beat them by 40, and beat two other teams by 30 in the same week, and, like, Dusty coming in afterwards, and, like, it's feeling like, all right, like, this guy's winning, like, they're winning the national championship, like, there's like, there's no debate, this is gonna be the best team, and Dusty trying to, oh, we have so much work to do, we, you know, we're we're not anywhere near where we need to be, and I looked back, thinking this weekend, like, They are night and day better from where they were at that point.

Yaxel is a way better player, a way more impactful player.

Cadeau uh is so much more comfortable and was so good in this run, obviously wins Most Outstanding player.

Um, Ada Mara, I mean, was unbelievable in the tournament, in in terms of the way he defended, he probably would have had my vote, uh, for Most Outstanding player in the, in the, in the tournament, but You know, Cade is certainly a deserving winner.

The wings that came along with with Gayle and and McKinney, who's a total stud, and I think has a chance to be, be phenomenal, like, this team had real flaws when they were bludgeoning people by 40, and Dusty was able to keep the foot on the gas, keep them getting better, keep them evolving as everybody else around them got better too, and that, to me is, is truly the mark, uh, and truly the credit to him.

And there will be a lot made and, and I know Pat, you wrote about it, and he deserves all the credit in the world for For the roster he built, uh, how he built it, the way he thinks about the game, the way he thinks about X's and O's, but this is a masterful in-season coaching job by Dusty May too, to have them continuing to improve as the year went on, and we saw a team really throughout this tournament be clearly the best in the sport and earn this national championship.

Yeah, I mean, you, you look at this, this team, and I, I think there was a lot externally made about the Wolverines and thinking they're this, this high priced group and, you know, they're mercenaries was was a term I think you heard quite a few times from a number of media members that I, I guess they were kind of trying to provoke them, uh, at times a little bit just to, to, to get a reaction, but this guy, this group was, um, you know, so fun loving, you know, and, and like loose, and, and, and that kind of struck me, um, kind of, kind of covering the run in in the Final Four in particular, just.

Um, you know, how well they all blended together.

And, and you talk about the job that, that Dusty did.

I mean, they got developed, you know, from not only from, from last year, but, but, you know, I remember seeing Adam Ada Mara at, at UCLA and he, he, he was not the rim protector that he was in this Final Four.

He was not the guy that was dropping a career-high 26, you know, against Arizona and just getting every kind of role and, and, and the touch that he has on some of his shots too, um, was impressive.

He actually, he did earn my, uh, most, uh, most.

Outstanding player vote, um, there at the end just because I, I, you know, defensively, offensively, he, he was such a force in this one and especially given the slack that the rest of the team had to pick up for in because Axel was not, he, he, he was not himself, you know, the, the in, in the entire, um, these last two games, you know, both the semifinal and now you, you, you could just see it visually.

Like every time he would make a cut, you, you kind of thought early in the, in the, in the title game, he was kind of a little, you know, a little jumpy, uh, you know, he, he maybe it was just, you know, the, the adrenaline.

And pumping, but, uh, slowly but surely he turned into, as, as Dusty, uh, May said, uh, the 38-year-old at the YMCA, which was phenomenal line.

And I, I think we will forever be imprinted on Yaxel as a part of this run.

But, um, just a great, great coaching job.

And, you know, you know, Kevin, to your point, like, I, I, I thought, you know , coming out of that Duke loss, I actually thought, all right, this is, this is the national championship team.

Like they, they have all the ingredients, they have a great coach, they're resilient, you know, everything is shaping up well for them.

But then LJ Cason got hurt and I, and then they kind of, you know, they didn't quite look as dominant as they used to, but, you know, credit to, I mean, Trey McKinney stepping up like out of, out of nowhere and, and just they, they handed the freshman the reins and and and they've, they've taken in a run with it.

One of, one of the more impressive jobs and one of the all-time tournament runs, you know, it wasn't, uh, pretty in the end, but, um, you know, the dominance that they displayed the first two weekends, they got the title done, uh, against a terrific Arizona and UConn teams, uh, hats, hats off to Michigan.

Yeah, I think, you know, the, the.

It, it's so interesting listening to people talk about transfers as, as if they're all terrible people, kind of almost, or if you, if you take several transfers, you are somehow cheating the system.

I mean, the system is the system.

Go build the best team you can, and that's what Michigan did, and the guys that Dusty brought in.

We're not fully formed, can't miss instant impact players.

I mean, Elliott Cadeau was a disappointment for two years at North Carolina .

He said, he said, people doubted me, I doubted myself.

Uh, he came in, fit, phenomenally, played brilliantly in the Final Four.

Ada Mara had a hard time getting on the floor, staying on the floor for 2 years at UCLA.

Huge body, but he didn't, wouldn't necessarily make a huge impact.

Uh, he comes in and all of a sudden, he's a different guy.

Yael was a, was a very good player at UAB, but that was also UAB.

He wasn't as good on the perimeter as he is now.

Uh, his shooting wasn't as good.

And, uh, Morez Johnson Jr.

I think everybody thought he was a star in the making, but he still, he averaged 7 points a game last year, 13 a game this year, improved all of his shooting stats.

Like, they just got guys that were good, but made them into great players who fit together in a great way, right?

Plus the, the people that were left over.

And so that's why I give Dusty, uh, and his staff just a ton of credit for evaluating, saying, all right, these are the pieces we want, and then we're gonna bring them in, and we're gonna make it work, and, and the way that it did, I thought was just incredibly impressive.

Uh.

You know, so, and he, he gave credit to the, the holdover guys who welcomed him in, and that part of it reminds me.

Of Indiana football.

Speaking of places where you bring in a bunch of transfers, and you need the holdovers to say, hey, come on, let's do it together, and not be uptight and concerned about who's in charge, or who's the star, or any of that sort of thing.

Uh.

You know, I, I look at both these teams and people, it seems like just were so like, not, not everybody, but there was a lot of backlash.

Well, you know just transfers.

Well, it's great team building.

It's great team building, both instances.

Uh, so I just, I, I do not look at that in a negative light at all.

I, I what do you guys, uh, think along those lines?

Kevin, I also want to ask you.

Like, where did uh Michigan end up in terms of transfer payroll in, in your estimation?

Uh, yeah, I mean, they were, they were north of $10 million roster, which makes, puts them in the, you know, the upper class, certainly, of, of college basketball.

They weren't 1234 or 5 in terms of, like, overall budget, um, you know, and, and look, the Yael thing was, was its own kind of entity, because, you know, Yael committed and there was an understanding on both sides, like, there's a real chance he's gonna go to the NBA and if I come back to college, it's gonna be Michigan.

But, you know, he had a real chance to be a first round pick, and, and look, Michigan made him, made it worth his while to consider not doing that, but you had to sell Yaxel on a vision of, here is why it will help you if you decide to come back to college.

Here is why coming back to college will help you, will not only be an incredible year of your life, but, you know, be an incredible basketball development conversation, and I think That that to me is, is, is the sell as much as anything.

Um, look, what, what I would say is, you're, you're going to have to be able to build through the portal in this era, like, that is the reality, like, even, even UConn, who I think you give a lot of credit to in terms of, they have been a little bit more built around high school and development still.

Like, they're still dipping into it when they've had to, and they won a national championship on the back of Cam Spencer two years ago, who was ripped out of Rutgers' hands in early May, and it wasn't just by UConn, a lot of people were, were, were messing around, but, like, everybody messes around, like, that's the game, and so, this idea that, like, Dusty May is like, a unique tamperer or uh they're the only ones operating this way, it's just, like, so ridiculous to me, it doesn't doesn't pass the smell test.

Now, again, like, it would be great if Teams like this have a level of continuity, but I think they will.

Like, I think Michigan is so early and it's, like, this is year 2, Dusty said it at the, at the day of this week, like, I'm sorry, I don't have a bunch of 5th year seniors that I recruited that are running around in year 2 of my program in Michigan, like, You know, like, it's it's an impossible standard, but, like, my hope is that Michigan brings back Elliott Cadell and brings back Trey McKinney.

Uh, I, I think there was optimism back in February that at least one of Mara and Johnson would come back.

I think that is a bit more far-fetched now, you tend to pay a championship tax when, when these things happen, um, but, like, I don't know, man, I, I, I, I don't really buy this whole narrative and um I, I, I think, I think you can build continuity and, like, I don't know.

I, I, I, I basically followed Yaxel for 45 minutes last night.

That, that was my story, go read it SI.

com.

Uh, I, I followed him from, like, the moment the buzzer sounded until, like, let's go to the locker room time, and Like, you can't tell me the guy didn't love Michigan, you can't tell me he didn't love his teammates, like, this team wouldn't have gotten to where they are now as national champions, if they were just mercenaries, if all they cared about was the money, if this was all a charade to go get paid, like, that, that's that's that's where it comes down very easily to me.

Well, and, and I would say that like the in the in terms of the evaluation process that that Dusty and his assistants had , you know, I, I, I give them a lot of credit for, you know, hunting skills, not stats, you know, really seeing.

Uh, more, more the floor of a lot of those guys, you know, and instead of, all right, this is why they're limited in terms of their ceiling, you know, it's, I, I know that they can do these kind of skills.

I know we can develop these kind of skills, and, and, and that's, uh, you know, a testament to their coaching, right?

You know, and, and I think you'll see it a lot, you know, we'll have Pat will probably get into some NFL draft talk down down the road and even some NBA draft talk with With Kevin, but like, um, you know, so many times you wanna like, all right, Elliott Cade, he can't shoot, you know, you're, you're looking at him through that lens instead of, all right, but he can distribute, and we can get shooters around him, and we can build a system that actually fits his skill set, and we can develop some other areas of, I, I, I think that that to me is, is really what I will take away from from this Michigan squad is that that it was a true development process.

It was It was getting the guys in short, but it was also every single time and, and even as, as they went on throughout the year, I mean, um, you know, to, to withstand the loss of, of LJ Cason just throw in a freshman and, and be comfortable with that because, you know, you'd seen him in practice, you, you kind of give him the reins there.

Like that, that to me was, um , you know, even more impressive when, when, when you throw out there, especially given some of the opposition that they they were facing off against in this tournament.

I mean, I mean, this is gonna be, uh, you know, I, I think go down as one of those all-time runs, not just because of the five straight, uh, 90+ point performances, but because of some of those teams that they ended up beating, um, you know, like Saint Louis.

I mean, that was a really good Saint Louis team that they ended up beating, uh, you know, in, in, in the second round and they ended up killing them in the second half because they, they were just clicking at the right time in the right moment and, uh, certainly deserving national champion .

Yeah, the, uh, uh, I, I think the, all right, so not just talent evaluation and procurement skills, and yes, all right, was there tampering?

I, you know, probably, I don't know what, what , what, what, who isn't tampering, first of all.

Secondly, I think North Carolina tampered with Tommy Lloyd to find out whether or not he wanted that job.

Nobody cares about that.

Oh my God, we can't talk to the players.

Well, all the coaches are all getting tampered with about what jobs you want.

Double standard there.

But anyhow, um, That one, an interesting thing is, you know, I asked Dusty last night, you know, how gratifying it was to, to have a plan and then watch it just unfold perfectly.

And he said, basically, well, it wasn't really that perfect, that it started to, he thought they were bad in their exhibition games.

They barely beat Saint John's, uh, who was not a very good team early, and they lost to Cincinnati, which I think was kind of a bit of a wake-up call.

And he said he brought the whole staff into the conference room.

And they just did a deep dive on everything.

They watched film, did stats, everything, just to say.

Have we built this wrong?

Do we need to change the lineup?

Is that, he said, has our vision failed?

Uh, so, I mean, he, he was already at least looking at this very urgently before the real season had actually started.

This is after the exhibition games.

And he said they came out of the staff meeting and decided , no, we're, this is it, we've actually got it right.

We're gonna be OK.

And then, as Kevin alluded to, when they got to Vegas and just blew up.

Then it was like, yeah, yeah, we got this figured out, and it was just a matter of, of them, you know, living up to, to the potential that they showed, and they, and they did, and, you know, the Big 10 was awesome this year, and there were periods in that when maybe they weren't as dominant, but they're also, you know, they won the regular season by 4 games in a really good Big 10.

Undefeated on the road too.

Yeah, yeah, and then they just absolutely destroyed people through the tournament until this championship game.

Uh, let's talk about the game for just a minute.

All credit to UConn, which, you know, I think.

I think Danny Hurley knew they were up against it, and, you know, they were gonna have to try to play this game a certain way, and they did, and they just couldn't make enough shots, but Michigan helped them by making no shots whatsoever, and Yaxel being hurt, helped them.

Uh, but Michigan, for Michigan to win, shooting 13% from three point range.

Oh, for their first, I don't know how many it was, 10 or whatever before they finally made one, they may, they I think they were 2 for 15.

Uh, but their defense, UConn shot 34% from 2.

Arizona shot 37% from 2, Tennessee shot 38% from 2.

That's why Adaim Mara and that interior defense was so good.

I mean, nobody could get in there and score against them.

But the game was brutal.

Uh, Illinois UConn was fairly brutal.

Uh, UCLA Texas in the women's tournament was brutal.

Uh, South Carolina, UConn was fairly brutal, and then the championship game was a complete beatdown.

I've seen a lot of people, you know, kind of decrying, oh my God, you know, are we backsliding into ugly ball, you know, is this, uh, is, is, is getting big gonna lead to just brutality out there?

Uh, Kevin, talk these people off the ledge, please, if you will.

Yeah, I mean, I, I think it was, it was simply the fact that 2 of the 4 teams that made the Final Four, and the two quote unquote, upset minded teams, Illinois and and and UConn, were both very slow playing and were able to dictate that into their games.

Um.

You know, Michigan played 70+ possessions in their 1st 5 NCAA tournament games.

They played a 78 possession game against Arizona.

For people who are unacquainted, that is, like, as fast as you can play, essentially, and the UConn game and the title game was a 65 possession game, which is a grinder, um, you know, it's, it's just, look, I, I, I think everybody wants to play fast, everybody wants to be physical, but, like, this new era of elite coaches.

are all are, like, they're not, they're not playing 1980s basketball, right?

Like, they're taking the analytically brilliant parts of, you know, Roy Williams, North Carolina, let's say, and then merging it with, let's bomb away from 3 and, like, like, these teams didn't make shots this week, but they were good shooting teams, and Michigan was a top 43 point shooting team in the country this year, right?

They just missed a lot of them against against UConn.

I mean, UConn, It it's sort of remarkable they didn't shoot it better this season.

I mean, Solo Ball was a 40% shooter last year, 41%.

He shot 30% this season from 3.

Braylin Mullins was billed as the best shooter in high school basketball, he shot 34%.

I mean, even Caraban, like, Caraban's an incredible shooter , he only shot 37 this year, like, UConn could have shot it better, they were cold all year, it's strange, um, but no, I, I think that the game is in a beautifully healthy place.

I think the style of play is, is in, is in great shape, like, you wanna talk about the off the court stuff?

Yeah, all, by all means, we got concerns, we got worries, we got things to fix .

The on-court product is damn good right now, Final Four, notwithstanding.

Um, the other thing I would say, uh, and maybe this is a bit of a tangent, but You know, think back to, like, after that Final Four in New Orleans, and Coach K is done, and Jay is done, and Roy was done the year before, and there was this clear kind of, like, vacuum of who is next, and our last 4 champions is who's next.

Dan Hurley, it's Dusty May, it's Todd Golden, we'll see if Tommy Lloyd ends up in that conversation soon.

I'd imagine they'll be right, right back there soon.

Nate Oates has made a Final Four, his teams have been phenomenal.

Jon Shire has made a Final Four, he, he seems like he will be a guy if he can, you know, figure out some of the, the, the struggles in, in March in closing games, like, we have this healthy new wave of elite coaches, and I think that's very exciting for the college basketball product and the macro, even if the micro of, yeah, I mean, UConn and Michigan played a played an eye bleeder on uh on Monday night.

Yeah, you know, thank, thank, thank goodness that we didn't get all the think pieces about, uh, oh, why are we playing this in football stadiums, you know, we, anytime there's a bad shooting title game, you know, it's, it's like clockwork.

Somebody wants to write that, somebody wants to say that, uh, we , we did not get that this time at least.

So, uh, maybe there is progress being made, uh, because everybody did see what, what went on this year, and I, I mean, I, it was interesting too, like, you know, you, you mentioned the pace, Kevin, like I, you know, this was definitely the, the, the, this was the everything going UConn's way.

In terms of what they wanted, you know, we're, we're gonna slow it down.

There wasn't a fast break point by either side, I think in the entire first half, you know, which kind of tells you, all right, this was leaning into how UConn wanted to play.

And I, I, I didn't get the sense that Dusty was like uncomfortable with that.

He was fine with that.

He, he wasn't saying, all right, push it, you know, he, he was saying, OK, you, you know, we wanna, we want to play a half-court game.

We'll, we'll play a half-court game.

We can win that way too.

And, um, you know, certainly they did.

I, I mean, it was interesting to see, you know, like, UConn did not shoot well and, and we'd obviously seen them just have it in spurts, you know, I think this this entire tournament was about them shooting well in spurts, you know, you know, against High Point in, in, in the first half, you know, they were hit or miss there, but then they hit, you know, they, they would get going and they could go on a run and, and then they close the gap and then they kind of take control from there.

Same thing in the, in the comeback against Duke, you know, this is kind of just their, their MO.

They, they would just kind of go on those runs where they would get hot for, for just they hit, they hit a couple of 3s and that would lead to a couple more and Um, but it, it, even, even if the basket was, was 10 times the size, uh, they were, they were having trouble and they were getting open looks.

I mean, it was open looks for, for the vast majority of this Final Four.

UConn got the open looks, they just didn't fall, you know, I, I mean, that was, that was the thing that struck me in the Huskies' locker room.

After the fact, like, it was, you know, usually, especially in the national title game, man, guys are crying.

It was so more, you know, it's always morose and you just, you know, the emotions are so raw and there was a little bit of that, but like there was also a very much an understanding amongst the entire team that like, look, we were, it was a six point game, we could have had it, we, we, you know, I think that layup at the end, uh, there by ball, that could have changed things, that could have cut it to one position.

Uh, with, with under 3 minutes to go, that, that maybe that changes things a little bit if that goes down, but The the iron was unkind for him, right?

And, uh, you know, I think they were, they were recognizing that, um, you know, after the fact that it was, um, you know, it was a great run, but the shots didn't fall in the end, and, and that's why they kind of came up short there.

Yeah, for the, the, the, the crowd that every time there's a bad shooting game in a football stadium, that's, that, you know, we've got to change it.

First of all, A, it's not changing, all right?

1996 was the last time the Final Four was played in a non-football stadium.

They like selling 70,000 tickets as opposed to 20,000, so that's gonna continue.

Secondly, it overlooks, I mean, Michigan was 12 out of 27 from 3 against Arizona.

44%.

That's a very good percentage, and that's plenty of 3s, 27.

So, You know, the, the idea that, uh, You know, the, the, the people tend to overlook things cause they wanna see what they wanna see.

Uh, the Final Four is staying in football stadiums , and sometimes there's gonna be games where people miss shots, that, that happens.

Um, But , uh, on the whole, uh, I, Danny Hurley, I have to say.

Um, was the more gracious UConn losing coach of the two who played in the Final Fours this weekend, which isn't necessarily always the case with Dan, but, uh, I think, I think there was a realization, first of all, that, yeah, he didn't have as good a team as Michigan.

He took that team as far as he could, and they played very hard, and acquitted themselves nobly, certainly, in Indy.

Uh, Geno Auriemma, on the other hand, The legendary women's coach, winner of 12 national titles, which is still just an astounding number.

Uh, had himself a bit of a meltdown, as everybody, I'm sure listening knows, on Friday night.

Uh, late in the game against South Carolina.

Geno's team was undefeated, looked like they were just gonna wagon their way to title number 13, and then South Carolina got into them, and everything changed.

And suddenly they're losing, and Geno does an interview, live interview during the game, I think after the 3rd quarter, and, you know, says that, basically alleges that the refs are ripping them off in South Carolina, Dawn's getting away with intimidating the refs, and so on and so forth.

And then, of course, after the game, Uh, well, not quite after the game, very near the end of the game, he gets quite, uh, Snippy with Dawn, and Dawn fires back big time, and uh the best thing to come out of the weekend, I, I will, we will see this on t-shirts, I think all over South Carolina, Dawn saying, I will beat Gino's ass, which ended up on the marquee of a sports bar in Columbia, South Carolina, and yeah, I think that will be all over the place.

It was, I, I thought it was a terrible moment for Geno Auriemma, who, again, like, best, maybe the best all-around basketball coach we've ever seen, but Uh, he acted very poorly.

He apologized poorly.

He did not reference Dawn Staley's name in his apology.

And the reason why that was important, people are like, well, he apologized to the staff.

He personally took it to Dawn Staley, not to the staff, he took it to her and her face, and alleged that she was uh intimidating the officials, and so it was directed at her, and so the apology should have been directed at her.

Fortunately for everybody involved.

Uh, Dawn put out a statement today, Tuesday, that, uh, I think helps, should help everybody move on from this.

I'll read it real quickly.

Uh, with the college basket women's college, college women's basketball season behind us, it's time to move forward and close the chapter on how our semifinal game with UConn ended.

I spoke with Geno, and I want to be clear, I have a great deal of respect for him and what he's meant to this game.

Our moment doesn't define a career one moment doesn't define a career, and it doesn't change the impact he's had on growing women's basketball.

The standard at UConn is what is beca is what it is because of him, and that's something this game has benefited from.

So I'm asking everyone to turn the page.

Let's refocus on what matters most, continuing to elevate our game.

Creating opportunities and pushing it forward.

That's always been my mission, and it's not changing.

Uh, Brian, we're in an era where sometimes like sports leagues invent peace prizes and give them to people.

Uh, do you want to give Dawn Staley a peace prize for trying to bury this, or what's your reaction there?

Well , you know, kudos to Dawn, you know, I, I, I think she has taken the high road throughout this entire episode outside of like that, that 30 seconds when she, you know, I like, I, I will beat Geno's ass, yeah, which, which, let's face it, you know, they're, they're playing in the, in the regular season next year, and so like I'm hoping like there's some card stunts or something like in that arena by the South Carolina fans that just, you know, like I will beat his ass, Gino or, or something, you know, maybe a lot of t-shirts can go on.

Uh, with any of those various t-shirt printing companies, um, so hopefully that is the case, um, come this, because that, that clip is going to get replayed time after time when, whenever, number 1 and when everyone's basketball is being discussed, but especially when those two meet, and those are the two.

You kind of gold standard coaches right now.

And, um, you know, I, I, I give credit.

I, I think outside of, again, outside of that like 30 seconds where it was just kind of pure reaction from, from both coaches, like, like Dawn has has hit every right note in terms of trying to move on.

I, I think she does like, you know, like her statement, so she understands the role that Gino has not only in the past, but, you know, this tournament right now in terms of developing women's basketball, that's, that's a cause near and dear to her heart, something that she wants to get this sport.

On an even higher level than it already is.

Geno has been the one that's, that's been pushing and prodding for, for decades now and continues to do that.

He was advocating in, in this tournament several times about some of the issues that, that the women face, uh, in terms of how their tournament is run versus how the men are, are, um, men are run, and, uh, you know, Don, Don is right there with him in terms of pushing for, for more coverage and, you know, a better access and making sure that the, the sport itself is, is healthier, so they can continue to coach and and thrive like they have.

And, um, it, it will be a A, a difficult chapter.

I'm, I'm sure that that will, will never truly get buried, and Geno certainly comes out looking worse.

I, I think after that statement, um, you know, maybe he might have need to have a talk with, you know, the UConn sports Information department because whoever approved that statement going out without Don's name in it.

Um, probably need to get the, get, get some, some more media training at this point because that, that was a huge mistake and a huge oversight and it probably, this whole episode probably could have gotten buried if, if he had just mentioned Don's name in the, in the statement, if he had done it to , you know, in camera, you know, just walking along, I wanna apologize to Don.

We, we, we, we could have moved on and especially with the title game being a blowout, we could have put this everything behind us, but this continues to be a story because of the way they acted and Um, you know, frankly, that's, that's gonna be, that's gonna be on Geno's legacy for, for, for a while, you know, that, that, that's just such a visual image, you know, that, that you cannot get away from it.

No matter how many times he's cutting down the nets, no matter how many times he's holding up the wooden trophy, you know, that, that is now part of the Geno record, and I, I think it's gonna be for, for a lot of people as well out there that kind of feel, you know what, he, he was in the wrong.

I don't know, I, I, I, I think he was obviously in the wrong.

I also think he's, you know, it's tough to judge someone on their worst day, um, you know.

I do think maybe he could take some lessons from the, the always calm, uh, Danny Hurley, you know, he, he, he, he, he knows how to, how to handle the refs and handle himself uh under, under strain, so maybe, maybe Danny can can give him some pointers, but, no, I mean, it was, it was a really bad look for someone who I think is kind of universally lauded as a pretty classy guy and someone that has Looked out for the growth of the game, looked out for um the image of of women's basketball as a whole, um, and as Brian said, I, I think the, the real self-inflicted wound was, was the statement, um, you know, you handle, handle that one better and uh this is, this is all gone by, well, long gone by Tuesday when we're recording this.

Yeah, the um You know, I, I don't think that's a media relations.

Error on the statement.

I think that's Gino saying, this is what the statement's going to be, and probably somebody mentioned to him, do you want to put Don's name in there?

And he's like, no.

I think I, nobody is telling Geno Auriemma what to say or not say.

This is where David Benedict, their AD or their sports information that, they need to step in.

Like, I, I, I am tired of step in on Geno Auriemma.

He's not, no, I'm, I'm, I, I am sick and tired because they're, they're, you know, ADs are gonna complain.

00, what, what am I gonna say, you know, to, to the most successful coach in school history.

Well, that's your.

Job.

You know what, that, that's also the athletic department's job is to tell Gino what to do sometimes, and Gino has to get that message, you know, and that that's why, you know, Geno being unchecked for, for however many years, you know, like that, that's what causes, you know, some of these incidents that, that showed up against Don Staley because you, you know, and I think the emotions definitely got to him.

He had to.

Undefeated team, uh, to, to lose in in that manner.

I, I'm sure things were running high.

And, and it wasn't just because she didn't shake his hand at the appropriate time whenever, uh, pregame.

Like, like we, we, we can throw that excuse out of the way.

He was just running hot because of the, because of the nature of that season, because of the pressure that I'm sure he felt, uh, to, to go back to back, to have another undefeated season.

Uh, after it's been so long that, that he hadn't had one of those, uh, and I can understand that, but everybody knows he was in the wrong, and frankly, you know, the administrators that are tasked with guiding the program, looking out for the greater good there in stores, they, they should have said something too.

Yeah, well, the AD is the only one who's going to say anything to him, and I, I, I'm still not even sure the AD tells Geno Auriemma what to say or not say.

So, uh, especially that AD, um, well, as it turned out , Dawn got her ass beat by Corey Close and by UCLA, uh, in an absolute murder blowout .

And it led to the Big 10 winning the men's and the women's titles, with its Pac-12 annexation of UCLA and, of course, winning the football title.

Uh , Brian, does the Big 10 rule the world, and is this going, how long is this going to happen?

Is this in perpetuity now?

Is it over for everyone else?

Bow down to the Big 10, Pat.

We gotta bow down.

We, we, we gotta give them credit if we're, we, if we were chanting SEC SEC all those years, now we're gonna, we gotta chant BIG BIG, although it does not sound.

Nearly as catchy, um, you know, for, for, for those Midwesterners, uh, to, to say that, but like, you know, give, give credit to the league, like, look, you know, the investment that a lot of these programs have made these last couple of years is paid off.

All those media dollars has, has flowed down to a lot of these rosters, a lot of these coaches, um, you.

You know, and, and it's, it's coaches that have taken over recently, right?

You know, it is Kurt Cignetti in the last couple of years, it's Dusty May in the last couple of years, you know, Corey Close is the outlier, and not only because she's, um, from Pac-10 territory, but, but, you know, she's been there for, um, nearly two decades now, and now in Westwood, and, um, you know, give, give credit to her.

I mean, she evolved to as a head coach, you know, like throughout the season, like this was a, a senior laden team, but, but really got the most out of this roster and Um, you know, I mean, afterwards, you know, you, you Martin Jarman, the, the AD there was like speaking about, all right, well this, this is great, you know, now we're, we're gonna get interest in terms of our donors, you know, contributing to women's basketball, on a level that we've never seen before.

So I think in terms of sustained success, we're seeing that in Indiana.

Saw that with, uh, plenty of those well, well, uh, well-informed Michigan fans that were either on the court last night or, or scurrying around the hallways that, uh, have, have some extra cash to give not only to their football program to the, but to their men's basketball program now as well.

Women's basketball had it going like, this is, uh, one of those things.

You, when you get that momentum, it, it can be hard to kind of slow down or or get derailed, and that's probably the task that, uh, Greg Sankey is going to have to, uh, to take on, uh, with, with a lot of his memberships, uh, Jim Phillips, certainly at the ACC, Brett Yarmark and, and more on the, on the hoop side in in basketball.

But, uh, man, I, I, I, I'm, I'm gonna be very curious to see what, what else if, if this causes other programs to get even more invested, you know, like we, we've seen it with Nebraska and in basketball, Iowa now investing, not only finding new coaches, but saying, all right, well, we, we, we have a chance to win actually right now.

We, we, if we make the right hires, if we make the right investments in terms of support staff hires, rosters, uh, you know, we, we, we can keep this thing rolling and, uh.

Uh , credit, credit to the Big 10.

Uh, the, the only hope that I have is that it just does not go to Tony Pettitti's head because, as, uh, Pat and I have, have both discussed, uh, previously, he, the man has never met a bad idea that, that he didn't want to, uh, to take to, to the rest of his membership.

So we'll see if that, uh, gives him further encouragement to keep doing that or if maybe this will say, hey, this is the Big Ten's new era, we don't have to do anything else new.

Look, the one thing I would say, um, and I, I can't speak to football, and I think obviously in football, like there's been massive investment, and this is not to say that Big 10 schools aren't invested in basketball, they are, but, like, If you went by, like, average roster budget in college basketball this year, the SEC was number one.

Like, the SEC, it was hard, you're hard pressed to find schools in the SEC that were under $10 million like, pretty much everybody was, was chips in and, you know, part of that is, you know, it was coming off an incredible season, right?

And so, you know, I think it's, it's, it's easy to raise the dollars when you have kind of proof of concept and belief, but I think there's, I think there's more here than just the Big Ten's flush with cash, right?

I think the Big Ten's flush with really excellent brands, like Michigan, like, Like, Dusty May could have left for North Carolina today if he wanted to, right?

Maybe we, we wouldn't be in this spot, right?

Like, Michigan is a, is a powerful brand, uh, it's a powerful institution with access to, not, you know, Jordan brand and to, you know, Larry Ellison and everyone in between, like, it's like a, it's a pretty big time place, and I think a lot of these big Big 10 institutions are, are big time places and Uh, UCLA certainly would, would be among them.

Um, so I think it, it was only a matter of time.

I , I never necessarily bought into the, oh, the Big 10, Big 10 basketball is, is inferior based on its lack of titles, but it's nice to, nice to get one over the finish line, and, uh, certainly, uh, I'm, I'm sure Tony Pettitti can can rest a little better at night, if nothing else, knowing that his league has, has ditched one of the kind of worst, uh, worst labels that it could, could have chasing it around.

And, and I do wonder if, like, the, the The renaissance of the Big 10 that we've been seeing is, is in part due to really that it's, it's the bottom of the, of the league that has improved so much, you know, that the floor has been raised, you know, quite a bit, like, you know, um, you know, I'm, I'm thinking, yes, obviously the Nebraska and, and the Iowa are, are easy to cite, but like, You know, for part of the season, you know, USC looked OK.

There was, you know, Washington has, has started to improve a little bit compared to where they were, uh, certainly, uh, those last couple of years in the, in the, in the Pac-12, like, you know, you, you're actually getting tested quite a bit more in, in conference play, certainly so in the football side.

I mean, obviously, Indiana is, is, is proof positive of that, but like it, it does feel like the, the Bottom of the league, even the middle of the league has elevated itself a little bit, and that's in turn caused, you know, the, the teams that want to be elite, that want to have those , those maximum resources, the Ohio State's, the Michigan's of the world, you know, to, to raise their game even further, you know, and, and so I think it's kind of that, that virtuous cycle that the SEC has, has talked about so long, you know, in, in, in that conference that has come up north to, to the Mason-Dixon line and said, hey, we'll, we'll do it in the Big 10 as well.

What if, gentlemen, what if we needed to actually give credit to Kevin Warren?

If you think about the contract, the media rights contract that was constructed on his watch, maybe that wasn't constructed all that well originally, but, you know, look at the money, the, the, the record-setting revenue contract, right, or media rights deal.

Uh, the bringing in of the West Coast, which I still hate, and I hate the demise of the Pac-12, and I think it was a terrible development, but if you're looking at this from a Big 10 standpoint, Hey, UCLA just won him a pretty big chip.

Uh, as Brian said, some of the other schools out there, I mean, Oregon has been a major impact in football right away.

USC is trending the right way in multiple areas.

So, Uh, and Washington's doing fine too.

So, what if Kevin Warren, who was a punchline, Uh, during his hit and run tenure there, actually did some things that have worked out pretty well for them.

I do think, to, to the point both of you guys were making, this is not just a money whipping.

It's mostly, I think it's a great hiring, great coach hiring situation.

I mean, Kurt Cignettti's turned out to be one of the greatest hires in the history of sports.

Uh, Dusty May, may, may end up going that way.

I mean, incredible in two years, what he has done.

You mentioned Ben McCollum at Iowa.

Uh, we're gonna see, you know, if, if Penn State improves its football situation with what they have done there.

Brad Underwood's done great in, uh, basketball at Illinois, uh, so on and so forth.

I, I think that, I think the league has done a very good job.

For the most part of identifying good coaches and bringing them in, and then giving them the resources to do their deal.

Uh, notable exceptions might be, say, Indiana basketball, but we'll see.

Uh, somebody who's gonna get Dusty May, whether it's Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan, somebody in that league quite likely was gonna get him.

Louisville tried to, uh, Michigan won out.

But, uh, I, I, I, I think that it's, it's noteworthy that right now, that league seems to be Finding the best people to put in charge of their programs.

So kudos to the Big 10 on that.

Um, we'll see, you know, you'll have a hard time though, Pat.

You'll have a hard time actually finding somebody that wants to give all the credit to, to Kevin.

Oh, I don't, no, I mean, I'm not, I don't necessarily want to give all the credit, but I, you know, I think we at least need to bring it up.

I, I, I, I will acknowledge that at least.

I, I will say though that like the, the amount of Big 10 presidential turnover, uh, in the last couple of years, notable athletic directors, same, same thing, you know, it's, it's not just that the guys with, with great.

Here that have been in the role for 15 years anymore.

Like I, I, there, there's been enough new blood in the Big 10, not just in terms of realignment, but in terms of actual people on the ground that are making those hires, um, you know, recently, that, that I think that has been the biggest change in, in terms of the Big 10 perception, um, you know, they're just operating, you know , far differently from they were as a league 55 years ago, you know, and, and I think that has made all the, all the difference in the world.

Yeah, well, uh, I, I, we lauded the Big 10 for their hires.

What are we now, what are we gonna say about the North Carolina basketball hire?

Uh, this, so to set the scene for everybody, Monday afternoon, there's the US Basketball Writers Association banquet, awards deal.

And we're all there.

Kevin Sweeney, our Kevin Sweeney is being honored as the Rising Star Award winner, great honor, happy for him to get it, well deserved.

And we walk out of there, and it's like, OK, we got a few hours to get ready for the championship game, do a little pre-writing, whatever, and all of a sudden, boom boom, Fammill breaks the news that Michael Malone is the coach of the North Carolina Tar Heels.

Nobody saw that one coming.

Uh, he was the coach of the Nuggets until he was fired almost exactly a year ago.

He did lead them to an NBA championship.

Uh, mostly he coached Nikola Jokic.

Uh, we'd all like to coach Nikola Jokic.

Now, he probably played a major part in making Nikole Jokic as good as he is, but, but still, uh, you know, that's, I, I likened it in my column, you know, Bill Belichick had Tom Brady and Michael Malone had .

Nikola Jokic.

Uh, anyway, nobody saw this coming, but it's happened.

Is this a good hire , a bad hire?

What the heck should North Carolina fans be thinking, Kevin?

Well, I, I, I have two people that saw it coming.

One person who texted me the day that the job opens, was like, keep an eye on Mike Malone, his daughter plays volleyball at Carolina.

I was like, well, congratulations to her, I guess, you know, I hope she has a great year.

Uh, and then Saturday, I know that that the clip went viral afterwards was, you know, that the Tyler Hansbrough sat on Field of '68 to keep an eye on Mike, Mike Malone, but Hansbrough and I were talking the night before and I said, Like, what do you got?

Like, what are you hearing?

He's like, I think, I think Malone's in there, and I was like, oh, I'm sure that I, I, I don't know, Hansbrough, I don't know, so, Tyler, Tyler Hansbrough is coming for all our jobs cause, cause he knew something we didn't, um, but look, I was, I was surprised, I think the timing of this is really challenging, right?

And and part of this is that Carolina obviously went so big, big game hunting, the Tommy Lloyd's, the Dusty Mays, the Dan Hurley's, etc.

and I think it got to a point where they panicked and didn't feel like they would know something definitively from Billy Donovan in time.

Obviously, at the same time this was happening, Billy Donovan was um sort of orchestrating his own coup uh in in the Bulls' front office and getting the people out that he did not uh want in the organization, so that, that helped and may have contributed to this.

And I think at the end of the day, what Carolina decided was We do not want to pay a premier buyout, you know, $10 million give or take, for the Mark Byingtons, the, you know, I don't think Ben McCollums is quite that, but , like, that tier of coach, that Mark Byington, Grant McCaslin, like, very good college basketball coach who probably doesn't win you the press conference in Carolina, let's go get a guy with a ring.

And that's not what I would do, personally.

Um, but I do think it's kind of emblematic of where Carolina is right now, and chasing a lot of flash and hoping that everybody can play catch up to this new college landscape, uh, as professional coaches.

We obviously saw the struggles that Bill had.

I think, in some ways, Mike Malone walks into a harder situation.

Um, obviously, Carolina basketball, Eon's better a job than Carolina football, but I mean, literally getting the job hours before the portal opens, with no real connections to college, um, needing to build a staff, has an existing general manager , and Jim Tanner, who has been working, but, quite frankly, Jim Tanner's fingerprints are all over the roster that got Hubert Davis fired.

So, how excited am I about that?

Not very.

Like, I just think, I mean, Guys are committing today in the portal, like, this is not a thing where, oh, well, you know, we, we can sit around for a couple of weeks and get our feet wet, like, they're gonna need kids on visits on, like, Friday, and Mike Malone's gonna have less than a clue of what he's doing, the players that he's trying to recruit, he doesn't know the pool, and that's to me, what's concerning is, is how badly does this go early and If it goes bad early.

You know, can he build back the momentum late as he finds his footing?

Cause I think he's smart enough to be a good college basketball coach.

I don't think that's a question.

Um, but, look, the question to me early on is, is can he keep Henry Vasar?

Vassar was a superstar this year for Carolina alongside Caleb Wilson, uh, he's a Lithuanian big man with skill, um, that's not quite Jokic, but I'm sure that there will be enough comparisons made if he comes back.

If he comes back and Carolina has the money to make him, you know, a very rich man in college basketball, They'll probably be all right, but if he can't keep Vasar.

I think year one could be very ugly for for Mike Malone at Carolina, and I would be very worried about what the what the future holds if that happens.

Yeah, I mean , you, you said panic hire, and this, this seems like, like exactly what it is, you know, and certainly talking with some, some folks there in this triangle, that was, um, that was kind of the sense that I got and even, and it did seem like they had Mike Malone in, in, in their pocket at least, you know, like that, that was always, we could turn to him, like you said, Kevin, they could win the press conference a little bit.

Um, it, it does kind of stink after all everything that happened with, with Bill Belichick.

Uh, they understood the optics that they were gonna get hit with, you know, I, I think both internally and externally, but I, I, I'm not necessarily worried about Mike Malone adjusting to, to college basketball, you know, in, in terms of, you know, when he does play, you know, those games against John Shire or especially in the ACC where, let's face it, it's, it's pretty winnable in terms of the league itself.

Like you can finish in the top third of that league pretty easily by just rolling out the ball if you're North Carolina.

And, and that's not, not necessarily like, you know, the greatest boost if, if, if you're the Tar Heels for year one, but like this is gonna come down to ultimately.

The Jimmy's and the Joe's, not the X's and the O's.

Like that, that, that is a phrase that has rung true at North Carolina more, more than any place right now, uh, lately.

I mean, they're, they're gonna be on the verge of their first, you know, top five draft pick in, in more than a decade, right?

You know, and that says a lot about where the program was, certainly says a lot about what's gonna happen and, and let's Face it, Mike Malone, the reason he got ran out of town in Denver was issues with the front office, you know, like how, how does that play out with Jim Tanner, who is, I believe, one of the highest-paid basketball GMs in the country right now.

And of all the people that carry a GM title, uh, let's face it, some of the football guys got, uh, got some, some, some salary bumps lately.

You know, how, how does that dynamic work and, and, and how, how is going from scouting, you know, overseas European talent, going to scout some polished, uh, you know, guys going into the NBA draft, it's a lot different from landing a guy in 24 hours at the portal.

It's a lot different recruiting a guy out of high school who, who maybe does need some more development.

That, that to me is more curious, and, and I guess if If you are in North Carolina, at worst case, you can probably pull the rip cord for not a huge amount of money in 4 to 5 years.

So I think that might be the only saving grace from all of this.

Everybody could say, all right, well, this has run its course, but the fact is , you know, expectations are what they are in Chapel Hill, and that's to, hey, you gotta be competing with Duke, you gotta get landing the right talent, and you gotta be making deep tournament runs, and I'm just not sure that.

Anybody is gonna be capable of, of that unless there's that synergy with the front office at North Carolina with the synergy with their GM, uh, and and their AD and, and, and the president on up.

Yeah, 4 to 5 years is a long time in this day and age.

I think he's got to do, do well sooner than that, um.

And and this is the tension, especially in the modern era where rosters just are.

Made or collapse in no time at all, but, uh, stand on the court.

Uh, waiting, you know, trying to interview people, getting some people waiting on other people, and Hakeem Misdean, the, uh, assistant coach for Michigan, looked at his watch and he said, 16 minutes till the portal opens.

Uh, that was on everybody's mind, even while you're winning a championship there.

I'm sure it was on North Carolina's mind, uh, but I, I would hate.

To have one portal class dictate a hire that is destined to not work out.

And I don't know whether it's gonna work out.

Nobody knows.

But if, if the chance was there to wait for a week and get Billy Donovan, who I, is a demonstrably excellent college coach, And you chose Michael Malone because you didn't wanna wait a week.

I, I, I question that as a strategy.

Just one more thing, Pat, sorry, I, I, I guess the optimist case I'll lay out for Mike Malone would be.

North Carolina's brand and money will get them players.

Mike Malone is probably a better basketball coach than a lot of the people he will be competing against.

Like, if you're, if you're asking me to lay out, like, how does this end up working, which I think there's a real chance it does because it's Carolina, it's, you essentially make the bet that the All the other stuff that we talk about college basketball coaches being really important for, like, that's not that important .

What's really important is, can we acquire talent, which Carolina should, can we kinda put our ring on the table a little bit to close the deal, and, like, that, that, that, that to me is to sell.

Now, the problem is, is, like, does the Carolina brand matter as much, right?

If you can go to Michigan and play for Dusty, if you can go to Florida and play for Todd, if you can go to UConn and play for Hurley.

Like, does it matter?

I mean, Raylan Mullins was a five-star recruit, I talked to him this week and I said, like, why, why UConn , you know, he's a Midwest kid, and he was like, look, I, I, I saw the standard, like, that was what I wanted to reach, like, the other people are catching up, there's a lot of people playing this game now, and if the hope for Carolina is we're just putting rings on the table and showing people pictures of, of Michael Jordan and, you know, everyone in between, like, I'm not buying that, but I think that would be the optimist case for it, that's what I would say.

Yeah, that's, I mean, clearly, they are gonna need their brand to, to, to carry some weight for them, I think, here, until there is some proof of concept from Michael Malone, and or just enough money to get a bunch of guys.

So, uh, very much TBD there, whether Carolina's second pro swing.

After bringing in Belichick, works out better than the first one, at least in the first year for Coach Hoody.

Uh, one other thing, let's hit quick, and then we've got a closing story.

But, um, When Dusty was in the process of not becoming the North Carolina coach, uh, uh, Pete put out a tweet that said that he had communicated to Michigan that he is not interested in any other college jobs.

Didn't say any other jobs, any other college jobs.

Kevin, is there a chance that Dusty May is going to the NBA?

I do think there's a chance, I, I think there's a, I think there's a lot of these guys that kind of have thought to themselves, man, if I can win one in college, like, Let's, now, well, let's talk, like, now, let's see what I can, let's, let's really test myself.

I do think his demeanor would be very good for the NBA.

Um, I know one job that people have kind of floated to me is, is the Magic.

Uh, they're an organization that has, you know, an existing cops that is underachieving, um, is that a job, you know, he has, he's he's been down in, in that region of the country, um, spent time in, in the state of Florida.

I'm relatively skeptical that this is , like, an immediate thing, and next year, Dusty's off to wherever in a month, but I wouldn't rule it out, and I wouldn't rule it out for a lot of this next wave, and that's probably the big threat that I talked about a bit ago of this group is that they could have other shooters.

And there was, the John Shire Bulls rumor, uh, I think Dusty would certainly entertain it.

I don't think Dan Hurley has completely closed the door on the NBA and if the Knicks came calling, like, I think Danny's going to the Knicks, or the Celtics game called and I think Danny's probably going to the Celtics, so, um, I, I do think it's real and certainly the wording was, was, was essentially an advertisement, hey, I would love to talk to you about your, your, your impending vacancy, but it is a good reminder, it is really hard to get an NBA head coaching job.

There are a lot of good candidates out there.

And, you know, maybe an owner falls in love with the college name, but like everybody else in the organization in the NBA is not gonna be all that thrilled about bringing in some some outside blood, as good as Dusty May may be.

Oh, much like football, you know, I think just the line between NBA head coach and college basketball coach has, has, has blurred much more than it was 5, 1015 years ago, and, you know, certainly the, the same is true on the football side, you know, just the bouncing back and forth.

I, I think we're gonna see that.

We're gonna see that in the front office.

We, we already have, we're, we're gonna see that on the coaching side, um, you know, the, the, the sports is just merged together, you know, a little bit more, you know, than they have certainly from an X's and O's standpoint too.

I mean, I, I think NBA teams are gonna be a little bit more interested as much as everybody's driven analytically by, you know, 5 out and shooting and being like Joe Missoula with the Celtics, you know, like, maybe, maybe.

A little bit more physical, zigging where everybody's zagging, you know, it, it could come back into vogue for, for some of these franchises.

You know, you mentioned the Magic.

I mean, they're another team right there that, you know, has, has some size and could maybe be a good fit for somebody like Dusty.

And now, whether that ultimately ends up being the case this cycle, I don't know, but I can also say that, look, you know, we, we saw last year, last offseason in the NBA when, uh, the Knicks were trying to hire.

To replace Tom Thibodeaux, like they were striking out with a number of candidates that, uh, they asked for permission, #1, and then they, you know, ultimately ended up, let's face it, probably settling, I would, I would say for, for Mike Brown, you know, after, um, you know, he, he's bounced around the league, uh, and that's what his 4th head coaching job, uh, now in the NBA like, it, it's much easier to sell an owner on, on a big flashy name coming out of the college ranks now than.

Either taking a chance on some, you know , up and coming assistant in the NBA ranks or, uh, you know, another kind of retread, uh, that, that has passed, you know, warts to, to, to say the least in terms of what they wanna run and how, how they've operated in the past.

So, it's, um, you know, football also is kind of facing the same issue, you know, in terms of who are those attractive candidates, and I think some, some owners are, are probably gonna fall in love with guys like Dusty May and, and others, whether it's this cycle or the next one.

Well, I, I like Dusty, I like covering Dusty.

I hope he stays in college, but I, I would not be shocked if, if he does have eyes, uh, on the next level, so to speak.

We will see how that plays out.

Coaching carousel never sleeps .

Uh, neither do conspiracy theories, guys.

We're gonna close with this.

Greg McElroy, former Alabama quarterback and ESPN analyst, and I think a phenomenal analyst .

I think he's outstanding.

Um, And I, I like him personally, I think he's a good, really good guy, and I enjoy talking football with him, but he's a, he's a conspiracy guy.

He said on his, uh, his radio show with Cole Kublick.

In Alabama.

That uh on Friday that that.

That humans had never landed on the moon.

So he was discounting the uh the Apollo landings, the alleged fabricated faked Apollo landings, apparently, and saying that the Artemis 2 landing would be the first time humans have been to the moon.

I haven't kept up with the Artemis uh journey.

I, I don't know whether they made it or if they're coming back or anything.

I hope they're all safe up there flying around.

But, uh, that was the discussion point.

And Cole Kublick asked him, do you honestly believe we've never been to the moon?

I honestly believe we never went to the moon, McIlroy replied, then doubled down.

There is a 0% chance we went to the moon, 0, total genuine propaganda.

So, we've got that.

Uh, I don't even know how good we were at like elaborate ruses back in the 1960s, but maybe we pulled one over.

Uh, Brian.

Did we, have we landed on the moon?

And is, is Greg McElroy crazy?

We, we, we have landed on the moon, number one, I, I would like to establish those, those bona fides, and uh we're on our way back actually, uh, the Artemis crew, I was, was walking looking at some of those, those photos that they took from, from the dark side of the moon and, um, you know, the, the funny thing about this, like if, if you know enough people, like, number one, somebody's gonna tell, uh, if there was this grand conspiracy and It is so difficult to pull something off amongst like 5 people, like the amount of people that it would take to pull off faking the moon landing, and I, I, I, I get the conspiracy theorists, but like, go to, go to, go to, he's in, he's in Alabama, like they, they have the rocket, uh, facilities there, and I, I think it's in Huntsville, yeah, so, uh, you know, go to Cape Canaveral, go, you know, go to Houston and, and, and like, you know, walk through or, or just open a dang book, but like.

Uh, you know, I, I, I wanna say this is, uh, you know, since, uh, since Greg beat me in high school, I'm, I'm gonna say this is just a byproduct of his South Lake Carroll education there, um, you know, in, but, uh, I, I, I just don't.

The simplest reason is always uh the the easiest one to explain away, and I, I don't think uh Greg is on board with that.

I, I, I think if you're gonna be, that's great, that's big, yeah, I think if you're gonna be in on the, the moon landing conspiracies, like I don't know why Artemis 2 is the one that's convincing you.

I know they're streaming, but like.

It would be, I feel like it'd be easier to fake a moon landing now than it would have been in the 1960s.

0 yeah.

It would be way easier to do now, right?

So I'm, maybe we should be questioning the Artemis, uh, deal, right?

Everything's AI.

That's what I've been told.

So that's probably fake, right?

It's got let's flip this on its head, yeah.

Meanwhile, the old moon, the old moon landings were real.

The new, the new one is fake.

Uh, you know, I, I will say like, um, you know, it's, it's 2026 right now, and we can't even get the, the working wireless at the Final Four, you know, on courtside.

So like I, I will say that might maybe that's in, in, in Greg's, uh, you know, maybe that's another tick on Greg's box, that like if, if we can't get working Wi Fi at the at the Final Four.

Then, you know, maybe those calculations they had to go do by hand, uh, in, in the pre-computer age, uh, is, is another point for Greg, but, uh, I'm, I'm not believing it right now.

Maybe.

I, uh, I have to say, so I went, I went to like junior high with the daughter of an astronaut.

Uh, Jan Irwin was her name, very nice girl.

Her dad, Jim Irwin, 4th human lunar lunar landing, Apollo 15.

He was the lunar module pilot.

I kind of don't think he was lying.

I think he actually did it.

So, I'm gonna say that there, there has been, there have been humans on the moon.

Uh, I like Greg, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll turn to him for football analysis, we will not turn to him, uh, for conspiracy theory analysis, so.

Everybody's free to think what they want though.

Uh, thanks for listening.

Appreciate it.

We will, uh, probably be back next week.

I don't know, we haven't thought about it, but leave us a nice review.

Thanks for checking in with us throughout the basketball season and the football season.

Offseason, well, there'll be plenty to talk about, more coaching mayhem, more portal mayhem, more angry people, bad rules, whatever the case may be.

So, uh, thanks for checking it out, and we will talk to you later.