Deep-Dive Into How Ziegler Could Have Saved the Raiders
HENDERSON, Nev.—As the cool chills of autumn hung over Ford Field in Detroit on Devil’s Night in the Motor City, it was a foreshadowing of the doom on the horizon to the Raiders career of Coach Josh McDaniels and General Manager Dave Ziegler.
What started as so promising had come crashing down after a series of brutal mistakes. Many found Ziegler and McDaniels to have polar opposite opinions, but both were married to errors.
Both men are no longer part of the Silver and Black, and in talking to people around the NFL, both men are presently being painted with the same brush by many.
Ziegler is not employed today by the Raiders because he didn’t do enough to differentiate himself from McDaniels, but it isn’t fair to equate them as peas in a pod.
Great friends, no doubt, but should they be on the same page of responsibility as to what led to the demise of their Raiders careers? No.
Raiders Today talked to numerous sources about their relationship that failed miserably to operate one of the greatest franchises in the NFL.
Standing at a podium on Jan. 31, 2022, Ziegler was asked how important it was for him to work with McDaniels.
Ziegler had been a rare New England Patriot, as he wasn’t close to Bill Belichick. I wrote at the time that a team source from New England told me: “Dave is too nice of a guy to be here.”
But around the NFL, Ziegler was a rising star.
Ziegler answered the question the way he always does; he was frank and calculated.
“I don’t think it’s a prerequisite, but there are some advantages to it," Ziegler said. "I know Josh and my relationship goes back a long time, and our relationship has always been built on honesty and respect, and the ability to be each other’s biggest teammate and the ability to be each other’s critic, too, and to always come back to a place of respect and always come back to a place where we’re on the same page.”
Ziegler didn’t need McDaniels.
McDaniels learned a lot as head coach in Denver. He wasn’t the arrogant young kid he once had been in the Mile High City, convinced that he had learned he needed a buffer.
His great friend, Ziegler, had always been loyal to him. Going back to their days at John Carroll, McDaniels trusted him.
Like a kid lying in bed on Christmas Eve, McDaniels was convinced that it would be different with Ziegler by his side this time.
Ziegler loves McDaniels, and McDaniels loves Ziegler, and like any genuine relationship, they could talk.
"Other than Josh’s dad and Bill (Belichick), I don’t think anyone can talk to Josh like Dave does. Dave has his ear and respect,” a source close to both told me when the Raiders hired them.
Ziegler was asked at his initial press conference who had final authority over decisions. I am not sure Ziegler knew how accurate or prophetic his comments would be.
“I mean, at the end of the day as the general manager and as the one leading the charge on the scouting side and personnel and college and pro, that direction will come from me in terms of the construction of the roster,” Ziegler said.
“Obviously, Josh and I are tied in many ways in our vision of how to build a team, and our vision of what we want in terms of the players that we bring into the building is very connected. Obviously, Josh and I are tied [together].”
However, disagreements started almost immediately, and Ziegler quickly learned that intent is not reality, and that McDaniels would have the final say.
Ziegler wanted to be on the same page, but McDaniels wasted no time trusting his gut; rather than relying on his friend, as he was insistent on getting his way.
One league source said: “Quickly, Josh wanted it his way and wouldn’t budge. I think you could sum it up that Dave wanted to be a team, but Josh wanted it his way, and I think the ambiguity of the relationship allowed Josh to steamroll him.”
Here are the top 10, but not all, of the disagreements.
While the Raiders have moved on, it is still crucial for Raider Nation to understand what happened and put this part of the legacy behind them.
Perhaps a lesson learned and to be avoided with the next regime.
No. 1: Jakob Johnson over Alec Ingold
Moments after their introductory press conference ended, the first signs of coming doom were made apparent. McDaniels wanted Ziegler to sign fullback Jakob Johnson.
Ziegler explained that on his deep-dive evaluation of the Raiders roster, Ingold was a “significantly better option,“ according to a Raiders team source.
“Dave tried emphatically to explain to Josh that Ingold was not only a better player, but respected in the locker room and revered in the community,“ the source said.
The source elaborated: “Josh wouldn’t budge and Dave even explained that dumping a solid player and respected locker room guy, simply for the comfort of a former Patriot was not a wise move to a highly skeptical Patriot-hating fan base, and an emotionally bruised locker room still wounded by Mark Davis choosing not to retain Interim Coach Rich Bisaccia.“
The source added: “Josh had changed a lot personally since Denver, but he hadn’t learned much. He assumed everyone saw football like he did, a cold business, and he couldn’t see how the move would impact the team. He only saw through his own eyes.“
Ziegler was disappointed but acquiesced.
No. 2: The handling of owner Mark Davis
“Josh was fearful of getting fired again just like in Denver, and while he liked Mark Davis, the less he had to do with him, the better. Anytime Mark was around, his tension went up,“ was how one NFL source with direct knowledge of the situation told Raiders Today.
The source continued: “Dave was the opposite. Unlike McDaniels, Ziegler had not been close to Belichick and wasn’t imbued in all of his thinking. He liked Mark, he felt the more Mark was included and involved, the better it would be. He loved it when Davis was around, whereas Josh was uncomfortable.“
Ziegler felt it was better to keep Davis in the loop. He judged Davis with the eyes and respect he had for the New England Patriots owner, Robert Kraft.
No matter how you describe the dynamic, Ziegler, ever the analyzer, knew that the coaches and leaders who had embraced Davis had the most success. He liked Davis and wanted him close, while Josh liked Davis, but did not want him close.
The source added: “It was never that Josh disliked Mark. I think he lived in fear of getting fired by him, and that tension was felt by anyone close. Mark is a big personality, and Ziegler felt like if he had to ask questions that they had failed, that he should have been told.“
Ultimately, handling Davis was an essential part of the failure of McDaniels’ tenure.
The source added: “A lot is made of Mark being different than Al [Davis], and there should be. I know them both. But I also think people fail when talking about how similar they are. Mark, like Al, has always valued loyalty, and can sometimes see disrespect where none was intended.“
No. 3: Fear of failure
While this is not a popular sentiment among Raider Nation, McDaniels learned from his failure in Denver.He had been arrogant and aloof and alienated himself from the entire organization. He wasn’t arrogant in Las Vegas.
I have previously reported that one member of the Raiders organization had described him to me as “clueless,“ but to others, said a fear of failure had gripped him since he signed the contract.
“The failure in Denver crushed Josh, but to his credit, he changed personally," a league source said. "The problem was that it was almost PTSDish in how he changed. There were a couple of times between him getting hired and their first game, and both times, he mentioned getting fired. I thought, f—k, the dude just signed a six-year deal for big dough, so what are you afraid of? It made no sense to me."
For Ziegler, it was different. He had no fear of being fired. He understood the mandate Davis gave them and felt being bold and aggressive was the key. Ziegler saw failure in the Patriot Way, while McDaniels saw comfort.
“Ziegler was vocal in New England when he disagreed," another league source with direct knowledge said. "He would respectfully disagree with Belichick (or the stagnated Patriots group think) multiple times, something that wasn’t appreciated. He wasn’t afraid to fail because he was so excited about succeeding. They were opposites, and it drove Dave crazy.“
No. 4: Jimmy Garoppolo vs. Jarrett Stidham and Jacoby Brissett
After the Raiders decided to move on from Derek Carr, and circumstances had changed with Tom Brady coming to the desert, Las Vegas was in a predicament.
Ziegler knew he could re-sign Jarrett Stidham, who wanted to return, and he was confident he could sign Jacoby Brissett and let the two men compete for the starting job.
Additionally (we will address this in the next point), Ziegler wanted to move up in the NFL draft and pick quarterback C.J. Stroud.
Ziegler was confident in his plan. He was hopeful that Stroud could be the future, Stidham had a firm grasp of the offense, and Brissett would give Ziegler the mobility he felt was missing.
“Josh wanted nothing to do with that plan," according to a league source. "Bill loved Garoppolo, so that meant he would. He was hellbent on Jimmy G, and despite all of the health issues that he had and Dave’s incessant warnings that it was a mistake, Josh got his way.”
Ultimately, Dave Ziegler and Josh McDaniels failed Mark Davis, but the Las Vegas Raiders owner and fans can learn from the past as Davis faces a legacy-defining moment for his term as owner.
© Kirby Lee | 2022 Dec 8
No. 5: Bryce Young vs. C.J. Stroud
The future of the Raiders vs. McDaniels’ fear of failure was displayed during the draft.
Ziegler loved then-Assistant General Manager Champ Kelly, an excellent evaluator and talent. More important to Ziegler was that Kelly wasn’t a yes-man. He was a true team player with a strong voice, and Ziegler respected him.
Entering the draft, McDaniels already had overruled Ziegler at the quarterback position. Ziegler had no faith that Garoppolo could stay healthy and felt he wasn’t the quarterback to take the team into the future.
Evaluating all of the quarterbacks in the draft, Ziegler loved Stroud.
“Dave felt he was a generational talent, and Kelly loved him. Z had done his research," a source said. "He knew the cost to move up to No. 1 and even No. 2.
“He felt the cost was cheap, and he was willing to do almost anything that didn’t include Maxx Crosby. He and Josh agreed that the price of No. 1 was too high, but Z wanted to move up to No. 2 and grab Stroud. He could have made the deal. He also knew Stroud would allow McDaniels to show the fans and the owner that an identity would be established.
"Josh was willing to move up for Bryce Young, but as expected, he went No. 1, and Stroud to the Raiders had long been dead.”
While it is far too early to make final grades on Stroud and Young, early indicators are that Ziegler was, again, correct.
No. 6: Staff
Ziegler was concerned that McDaniels had hired some staff recommended by people Belichick respected, but that Ziegler felt were not a fit.
Ziegler thought that McDaniels had a good staff. He also felt there were two or three weak links and wanted McDaniels to change.
“You can’t have coaches who players simply don’t respect, or even hate," said a league source with direct knowledge. "It doesn’t matter who f—king recommends them. Josh had a great staff of coaches that the players loved, they played for them, and Dave wanted him to upgrade the staff, show the players he was as flexible as he wanted them to be. It fell on deaf ears.
"Edgar Bennett, Antonio Pierce, Carmen Bricillo and, of course, Patrick Graham, are all examples (of great coaches the players love) and not the only ones, but Dave wanted Josh to show the team it wasn’t just about upgrading a roster but the staff as well.”
No. 7: Being personable
Ziegler and McDaniels genuinely love and care for each other. Ziegler wanted McDaniels, one of his best friends, to show his personable side.
The players liked McDaniels as a person, but they struggled with him as a coach.
After the victory over the New England Patriots on Oct. 15, one player told me: “I am so excited for Josh; that was for Josh.”
That same player told me one day later: “F—k man, this game is a battle; it is brutal. He came in and you couldn’t tell that we had even won.”
He continued, “That f—king process sh-t doesn’t work if you can’t enjoy this. It’s a f—king game, man. None of us like people who play this simply for the money. We are risking our lives with CTE and injuries, and sh-t. This is a kid’s game. Enjoy it. I like Josh, but I don’t think he loves this game. He has no fun.”
Ziegler knew that the players liked Josh the person and that he wasn’t the arrogant man he had been in Denver. He also knew that he needed to be more personable. Liking the man doesn’t equate to liking the coach.
That is why when the team had their now-infamous team meeting the Thursday before they went to Detroit: “Josh was shocked at how many issues guys had. It wasn’t a 'We hate Josh’ meeting. A lot of people called out a lot of people. I honestly don’t believe Josh had any idea that there was anything close to what he saw,” a league source said.
It was a little too late for McDaniels. He finally heard that he had to be more personable, but when he finally did, it was too late.
No. 8: Building of the trenches
An NFL team executive told me that Ziegler “wanted to build from Day 1 along the offensive and defensive lines. Josh wanted offensive skill guys. It was clear almost as soon as they arrived that Josh was a head coach who felt he could outscore anyone, and the general manager wanted to build the lines.”
Another source who personally heard a conversation told me that McDaniels said: “If we have to worry about the pressure as much as you say, I have failed as a coach.”
McDaniels was convinced that his offense, with a quarterback who got rid of the ball quickly, could negate a pass rush.
No. 9: Spending of money
Ziegler had made it very clear, to the point that it strained his relationship with McDaniels, that Vegas needed to be more balanced in its spending.
The Raiders in 2023 spent more than $100 million of their salary cap on offense and $60 million on defense.
One NFL GM told me: “That is not how Ziegler would build. It infuriated him. Josh had this supreme respect for his offense. Still, Ziegler understood McDaniels’ offense, minus Tom Brady, would not work without a top-tier offensive line and that no defense was effective without a tough defensive line. That is why what (Defensive Coordinator) Patrick Graham has done is even more impressive.”
No. 10: Playing of rookies
Ziegler implored McDaniels to play rookies. He wanted to let guys who needed NFL reps get them. Ziegler’s vision was always on the future, while McDaniels’ vision was predicated on the present.
Ziegler fiercely supported the entirely revamped scouting department, in which he had brought the Raiders up to an NFL standard, and was Kelly's most prominent advocate. He believed wholeheartedly in getting rookies reps, but McDaniels did not share that sentiment.
McDaniels felt that it was risky to play multiple rookies when the fan base was already restless, and it was a source of spirited debates.
When Ziegler’s fears of an oft-injured Jimmy Garoppolo surfaced early, an ill-prepared Aidan O’Connell was forced into duty.
There was anger throughout the franchise when McDaniels failed to adapt his system to what the rookie had been prepared for. That stubbornness to the “process” cost the Raiders what many thought was a “winnable“ game against the Los Angeles Chargers.
Ultimately, McDaniels and Ziegler’s marriage didn’t work as well in leading an NFL franchise as it had as friends.
But they didn’t disagree on everything.
McDaniels and Ziegler were both aware that Chandler Jones had issues. There were zero misconceptions.
They let Yannick Ngakoue go and brought in a former Patriots star with issues. They were in lockstep with each other. It was a significant mistake, but both men agreed despite it resonating around the NFL as a brutal error.
Another area of agreement that turned out to be a mistake was the handling of Josh Jacobs.
All parties knew where the deal would land and wanted to continue the relationship, and despite communication issues with Jacobs’ agent, the Raiders sat back and waited.
Jacobs had made it abundantly clear he wanted to be a Raider, and the Raiders had made it clear they wanted him.
Both parties knew the parameters of where the deal would finish. The Raiders could have had the deal done before training camp, bur instead, they sat, they waited.
It alienated teammates who wanted their captain back, teammates who knew a deal was quickly within reach.
You can’t pin that on McDaniels alone, as that decision sits in the lap of both men.
Should Ziegler have pushed McDaniels more, to the point of involving Davis, if necessary? Absolutely.
Did Ziegler fail to separate himself from McDaniels? No doubt.
But none of that negates that Ziegler’s instincts were significantly more often correct as he had the premium general manager's seat with the bird’s-eye view. McDaniels didn’t.
Had McDaniels trusted his friend or had Ziegler been more forceful, Davis might still have employed both men.
Their failures make the firing understandable.
But when being fair, Ziegler, the once-rising star, doesn’t deserve to have his NFL future negated by decisions he didn’t want or support.
Davis wasn’t the first NFL owner fooled by the Patriot Way, but he’ll likely be the last.
Ziegler deserves his share of the blame, but also another chance. The Raiders would be better today had he done it his way, and so will his next franchise.
The Silver and Black will return home to Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas to take on the Minnesota Vikings on Sunday, December 10, at 4:05 p.m. EST/1:05 p.m. PST.
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