Big Ten Conference Deep Dive | Others Receiving Votes

All right.

Welcome to the show.

Others receiving votes, I'm Pat 40 joined as always by Brian Fisher and Kevin Sweeney from Sports Illustrated.

You can find our work at SI.

com.

Uh, we got pretty good response last week to doing a state of the ACC show.

So we're gonna continue with that.

We're doing, uh, the Big 10 this week.

Uh, It doesn't, uh, Brendan Sosby doesn't play quarterback in the Big 10, but we're also gonna be keeping our eyes open for any developments in his, uh, eligibility issue with the NCAA as they try to get out from under a potential mountain of gambling issues there for the quarterback of the Red Raiders.

But, uh, today, we're gonna be all about the Big 10, uh, and I'm gonna start with this before I go to you guys.

Their meetings, as we're doing this, we're trying to time this with the timing of the conference's meetings, spring meetings.

Last week was ACC at Amelia Island at the Ritz-Carlton, the Big 10, Palos Verdes, California, the Tirania Resort.

Once again, nobody in college sports has enough money until it's time for a meeting somewhere, and then they are not going to the Iowa City Convention Center or the State College inn or anything like that.

We're at the Tania resort.

There's 8 restaurants there.

It's right overlooking the ocean.

You can get a citrus glow facial.

You can get a honey body bliss treatment.

Only $324 for 60 minutes for that one.

So, you know , they're, they're keeping things tight and tidy there at the Big 10.

They also do have the most money, as we have seen, and lately the most championships.

I think it's pretty good to be the Big 10 right now, that's for sure.

Uh, fellas, tell me, in the conference hierarchy, the national conference hierarchy, Big 10, trending up, trending down, or steady, where is it, Brian Fisher?

Uh, well, well, number one, that is a, it's a lovely resort, and uh I'm headed their way, uh, just in, in a little bit after we're done taping here to, uh , to attend some of those Big 10 meetings.

I'm sure some of the wives of some of those football, uh, coaches and the athletic directors are gonna enjoy some of those facials.

Uh, I have no doubt, as well as some of the, the golf.

Golf courses for, uh, for some of those athletic directors as well, uh, around the area, but, uh, it, it's good to be king, right?

If, if you're the Big 10, you're, you're number one, and, uh, it's not just in football, it's certainly men's basketball, which they finally gotten over that hump for the, for the first time in, in, uh, basically a quarter century, so.

Uh, you know what, in, in terms of the national hierarchy, it's the Big 10 and everybody else, you know, they, they are winning on the field, they are winning in the pocketbooks and, and the checkbooks and everything that, uh, you, you can imagine, and, uh, it's a new era, you know, for, for the Big 10, uh, currently in terms of where they're at, uh, nationally relative to their peers and, uh , certainly on the field, uh, you know, that, that is the case.

Yeah, I mean, you, you, you, in the last year, you've rebutted two of the only arguments left, which is, well, it's just Ohio State and Michigan in football.

What about everybody else?

Well, somebody else just won a national championship, and then, well, that basketball conference, it, it's overrated.

They, they never win the big one.

Well, here comes the Wolverines to dominate through the NCAA tournament and, and get the monkey off the back of the conference in in the NCAA tournament in men's hoops.

So, uh, yeah, it, it has earned the number one spot.

I think it will, quite frankly, take quite a lot to get overtaken as number 1.

I think this is a, this , this is at least for, for the next couple of years, the, the status quo, Big 10 and everybody else.

Uh, I forgot to mention a few other things at the Toronto Spa, by the way, the, uh, signature journeys you can go on a 120 minute Crimson Revival holistic sauna retreat.

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Journey where I know the uh the SI expense accounts are not what they used to be, but do, do we think I should, should test any of these out, uh, while, while I'm down there waiting for everybody?

You know what, you're gonna be there, walk in, sure, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be there for a couple of hours.

So yeah, the sound and silence thing.

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Uh, as for the conferences standing, yes, they're, they are 100% number one, across the board.

As Kevin pointed out, it's not, the football is not just a, Michigan, Ohio State operation now, Indiana just went 16-0 and won the championship.

Oregon was the number one seed in the 2024 playoff.

Uh, they, you know, the old argument was that it was too top-heavy, and you could still say there's a little bit of that, but There's a lot of good teams, and a lot of good programs, and a lot of places throwing around a bunch of money there.

Um, the only other conference that's ever had three different teams win three straight national championships, the SEC did it twice, 2019 to 2021 with LSU, Alabama, and Georgia, and in 2007 to 2009 with LSU, Florida and Alabama.

So , they, they have joined the very rare, uh, Uh, air there of people who can , can show that sort of diversity at the top.

And, you know, with Indiana doing it, that, that's the mind wrecker for a lot of people, is that when you can take what was objectively the worst program in the Big 10 and suddenly become the best, and not just the best in the Big 10, but the best in the country, yo, things can happen there.

Um, Obviously, yes, Michigan totally changed the, uh, they can't win the big one narrative for the conference, winning the first championship in 25 years in men's basketball, and did it in dominant fashion, and has a coach who stands to be really hard to beat for many, many, many years, as long as he wants to coach in college, and is happy there.

Uh, Illinois made the Final Four, had a great season.

Several other teams in that league look in great shape, and their programs are in great shape.

They won the women's championship, and the women's championship drought had been longer than the men's.

It goes back to 1999.

Purdue was the last time they had won an NCAA women's title.

So the Um, annexation of UCLA paying dividends, the annexation of Oregon paying dividends, USC's won some titles.

Uh, Washington has not been a, a negative by any means.

So the, the expansion, while the ruination of the, um, Of the Pac-12 was not worth it for the whole state of things.

It, it was very much uh worth it for the Big 10.

So, yes, number one, Passed out a billion dollars in revenue.

Um, all right, let's talk, uh, football.

What are the league's strengths, uh, right now from the football perspective, Brian?

Well, I mean, you kind of touched on it a little bit there, you know, to, to have Indiana, uh, going into last season, the worst Power Five program in, in terms of losses and, and, and wins, uh, to, to , to win the national title, you know, and, and go undefeated.

I think that speaks a lot to what the Big 10, uh, you know, currently is in terms of, um, you know, not only being top-heavy, but, but having elite teams, you know, right now.

And it's not just Indiana and it's not just Ohio State like usual, it's not just Michigan as usual, um, you know.

It's, it's a collection of teams that are truly challenging for the national title.

Oregon consistently knocking on the door, uh, of being a national title contender, uh, getting to a semi-final.

You look at USC and what they've been able to do, they are back on track as a program, uh, under Lincoln Riley, finally kind of delivering the promise of his hire, you know, number 1 recruiting class in the country.

Uh, they're, they're gonna be in probably the top 15 of pretty much every, uh, preseason poll.

So that's another contender that you have on, on top of.

Pretty, a pretty solid middle class, you know, your Iowa, your Illinois, uh, coming off two really good years, uh, Brett Bielema, your challengers, you know, like a Washington, uh, you know, Nebraska's, um, you know, kind of gotten a little bit over the hump in, in terms of, uh, what Matt Rhule has been able to do there, uh, and get them at least back to, to bowl games.

Um, you know, you have a pretty solid middle class there.

Um, certainly there's some disappointments, um, these last couple of years, you know, Penn State has not been, um, you know, to the level that you want Penn State.

To be, but, um, you know, there's, there's been strides made, you know, I think in terms of having that, uh, depth, um, that the Big 10 that, frankly got knocked, knocked out, you know, for, for past years in terms of not having those teams beyond the Ohio State and Michigans of the world, but, um, you know, I think they've made some strides there.

There's been investment, um, certainly from a roster standpoint, as well as from a coaching standpoint.

Um, we're seeing some of the bottom teams as well, um, you know, turn things around as well.

It's, it's gonna be interesting to see.

Uh, you know, Bob Chesney at UCLA, some of these other hires that have come into the conference brought in, uh, a new approach to some new blood as well.

So, um, football-wise, you know, it's not quite where the SEC was and, and, or quite, quite where the SEC is, frankly, um, in terms of top to bottom depth, but, um, you know, they're, they're pretty good at the elite, uh, in, uh, at the top of the league, and, and, uh, you know, I think they're improving, um, top to bottom.

So, good things to say, I, I think in terms of football and, and where the conference is ultimately, uh, pointing at in terms of their trajectory.

I, I also think about just the, the coaches and the resumes of the coaches that are coming into the conference at this stage, right?

That, that to me is something that stands out when you look at the Big 10 versus the SEC.

Obviously, LSU post Lane, that was a huge deal, but you think about the other top resumes on the move, it's Matt Campbell, uh, going to Penn State, it's Kyle Whittingham going to Michigan, um, you know, even, you know, Michigan State to get fits, like, you go up and down, like, like, you're getting some really proven winning coaches in in this conference as these jobs turn over in a way that the SEC, you know, quite frankly, isn't yet, you know, obviously, like, Summerall and and Golesh, and a lot of these guys have very good resumes.

They're, they're they're strong up and comers, but it's a different world, and I think the fact that the Big 10, uh, with its, especially particularly with its premier jobs, are getting guys that are proven winners at the highest level of the sport, I think is a, a pretty strong endorsement for kind of where the winds are, are, are blowing at the moment and where people wanna be, and I, I think You know, these jobs are, are, are very, you know, the, these jobs are very desirable at the moment, um, because of, you know, not only the access to, to, to resources, but the access to, to competing for championships, um, and, and everything that comes with that.

I also think, like, this is like a, you know, I, I think the bottom of the league is probably a little bit better position than the bottom of the SEC long term because of the Um, desirability of some of the jobs, right?

I mean, you think about like, UCLA for instance, you know, that, that's a, that's a program that, like, has access to a lot of money, has access to, uh, location and resources that way , that, like, a Mississippi State can't compete with, right?

Uh, uh, you know, Northwestern has its academic challenges, but like, if you're asking someone where they'd rather live between Uh, you know, a bottom SEC job in, in Evanston, I think most would probably choose Evanston, right?

You know, like, I, I think you go down, up and down the list of, I mean, Rutgers, Rutgers is, is, is, you know, the shadow of New York City, right?

Like, Maryland's in the shadow of DC, like, the, the, the, the programs that have struggled in the Big 10 in football, I think, don't have it quite as They, they don't have a, a super high ceiling, but they probably have a higher ceiling than the bottom of the SEC's teams, and I think we've seen that now with Indiana's rise.

Not to say that any of these teams are going to become the next Indiana.

I think that is, I think there's going to be a lot of people that get fired over the chase of the next Indiana over the next 10 years, but, uh, I, I think there's a, a clear path to uh energy and relevance at some of those places and maybe some of the bottom of the SEC jobs.

Yeah, there, there, there's no doubt that the, the next Indiana may prove to be nobody and, and the chase to be that, uh, could, could be fool's gold.

What's more likely, next Indiana, next Gonzaga.

What do you think?

Good question .

I like that, that we can, we can discuss that, that thought experiment.

Um.

But yeah, that they, that, that's, that's something that uh that athletic directors aspire to and donors sit around and say, well, if Indiana can do it, we can do it.

But, I mean, the, the, the secret sauce is, is something.

I mean, trying to actually come up with it, and I will say, so one of the, I think one of the great strengths of the conference is a guy like Kurt Cignettti goes 16-0, and it's like, yeah, I'm staying here.

I'm not going anywhere, and I'm keeping my coordinators, both of whom have done phenomenal work for him.

Uh, Brian Haynes, defensive coordinator, Mike Shanahan, offensive coordinator.

They lost a couple of other guys who are talented coaches, strength coach went to Tennessee, but to keep the core of that group together, You know, shows that they, they, they, they do not look at Indiana as a stepping off point, or that that was a one-off or a blip, or anything like that.

They, they feel like that's a place they can just keep winning.

Um, Dan Lanning has made it very clear, he wants to stay at Oregon, if he's, if he's coaching college football.

So , having him there has been, You know, the, the, the continuity there, Ryan Day, if he ain't going to the NFL, he's staying at Ohio State, and having him there, and yes, to you guys' points, I think there were some very good hires.

Uh, of coaches within the league.

Matt Campbell had taken Penn Iowa State to a Big 12 championship game.

Pat Fitzgerald had taken Northwestern to a Big 10 championship game.

Bob Chesney took, uh, James Madison's College Football playoff.

Kyle Whittingham.

Has won championships and had undefeated seasons.

So, you've got guys, as you said, Kevin, your point, I thought was good, that, you know, like the Summeralls and the gold rushes, they may turn out to be good.

They just haven't, they don't quite have as much proof of concept as all of the, uh, the Big 10 guys maybe do to this point.

So, I think that the, one of the great strengths of the league is not just where they've been, but where they appear to be positioned to go.

And we've discussed, um, You know, significantly, I think the, the, the, the potential, you know, donor pots of gold at these schools tend to be bigger than anyplace else.

You've got larger alumni bases, you've got maybe a little bit more affluent alumni bases, and if they tap into them, Uh, good things can happen.

It doesn't it doesn't, they don't have to all be Mark Cuban or Larry Ellison.

I mean, you, you can find enough other people that are filthy rich that wanna see their teams win, so.

Things are good.

Uh, any weaknesses, Brian, anything you, you don't like about Big 10 football at this point?

Well, you know, I think there's probably the, uh, reputation in terms of, uh, the style of play, you know, generally, that you could say it's, uh, certainly a little bit more, uh, you know, rooted in, in that, those Midwestern roots in terms of, uh, a little bit slower, you know, pace, and I think there has been, you know, certainly some changes to that, um, you know, recently, you know, I, I, I don't think Illinois is, is, is plodding along, you know, like, like normal, and you have seen some.

Uh, certain schools, uh, come out there and, and, and really kind of make an emphasis in terms of finding more skill position, talent, uh, than, than there certainly historically has been, uh, in, in the league.

But, um, you know, I think you can also point to just to the bottom of the league, you know, the, the Rutgers of the world.

And, you know, when, when those teams bottom out in the Big 10, you know what, they, they bottom out pretty bad, you know, whether it's a, a a Ruger.

Rutgers, uh, you know, UCLA these past couple of years, um, you know, certainly there's some other, other test cases there, but, uh, you know, the , the bottom of the league cannot not pulling its weight.

Um, maybe, maybe compared to some of the others, you know, that's, that's probably the one thing you would circle, um, certainly in football, you know, I, I think the, the case that could probably be made, uh, there in basketball as well in terms of, uh, you know, the, the, the bottom of the Big 10.

Uh, really being the, the, the issue, and, and it's not probably for, for lack of funds at, at this point, um, you know, given, given what these athletic departments are able to spend, um, you know, it's just, uh, you know, the combination of missing out on a coaching hire or missing out on certain roster decisions, and, um, you know, that really affecting, uh, some of the league, but, you know, the, the flip side is that, that's almost OK, you know, if, if you are the Big 10, and some of the others in terms of, all right, that at least gives us , you know, a, a break in, in that conference schedule if you are an Ohio State football, if you are.

Uh, of Michigan's men's basketball.

If you are a UCLA, uh, women's basketball, you know, you can, uh, almost ease off a little bit in, in certain games.

So I think there's, uh, that, that weakness of the Big 10 can, can also end up being a strength in, in some ways, um, in terms of not being that consistent week in and week out grind, uh, in terms of league play that, you know, frankly may have, may have put the Big 10 behind, uh, you know, in past years, you know, where, where it was the bottom of the conference was a little bit better that , you know, historically compared to, uh, kind of the middle and, and the upper.

Tears, um, that maybe affected them in terms of those national title races, um, you know, maybe that this can come around and, uh, certainly allowed uh some of those teams to get a little bit of a breather in conference play, but, um, you know, outside of that, you know, I, I think in , in terms of weaknesses, this is still, you know, 18 programs strong, you know, trying to compete, and I think, uh, investing the resources, uh, you know, relative to, uh, what they have and, and, uh, going, going about that, uh, and that's, uh, that's certainly improved things top to bottom and, uh, kind of taking away some of those weaknesses as well.

I mean, look, I, I think the weakness remains that the best talent in college football comes from the SEC footprint, and not from the Big Ten's footprint.

And the Big Ten's footprint is, is national at this point, but it's lacking the South, and, you know, I, I think there's a, there's a race for, you know, there's a ton of competition for those California elite players , um.

You know, again, there's a lot of, there's a lot of wins that benefit the Big 10, right?

There's the, you know, the fact that, you know, teams aren't, you know, the Alabama's, the Georgias can't stack their rosters 3 deep with the best players from, you know, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, you know, those guys are on the move in the portal now.

Um, there's also, again, the fact that, um, the, you know, the money and, and you can pay and, and, you know, overpay in some cases to make guys come to a situation that may, they may view as less desirable, but That is the one thing that the Big 10 cannot buy their way to, right?

You, I mean, it would take quite some time to, to, to, to spend enough money to make the, the, the athletes feel a little bit better from Ohio and Michigan and, and, in that region.

Yeah, yeah, no, fair point.

Um, what, I view this Big 10 strength as an overall weakness for college football.

I'm veering a little bit here, so work with me, but, uh, The fact of the matter is, they have, they are on the verge of winning the ultimate boardroom power play here.

If they have gotten almost everybody, everybody but the SEC turned in favor of a 2014 team playoff.

In a matter of months, because in January, everybody was in favor of a 16 except the Big 10, and now all of a sudden, everybody's in favor of a 24, except the SEC, which is an important exception because they have to go along with it for it to happen.

But I am no fan of Tony Pettitti, I've pretty well made that clear.

I don't think he likes college sports very much, but if he's pulled this off and gotten everybody over to his side, congratulations on that.

I'd say it is myopic, it is disastrous, it is offensive, it's gross.

I don't want a 2014 team playoff.

I think it would be ruinous to the regular season and a lot of things that people hold dear about the sport.

Uh, I think that we would be rewarding mediocrity with playoff bids.

I think it would be nothing more than playoff bloat, which we've seen with the basketball tournament.

Uh, I, I think it would be a terrible development, but, I mean, if Petitti pulls this off, I've got to give him some, some level of credit here for somehow buying off everybody else to say, look, hey, you're gonna get more teams in too.

It's gonna help you.

Fine, what does it help you actually do?

We could debate about that for the next 2.5 hours.

We won't do that to the listenership, but, uh, I, I, so I view their myopia as a weakness, but it's actually worked out as a strength to the, the Big 10, if you will.

All right, league strengths for basketball, uh, and there are many, but Kevin, go ahead there.

Yeah, it, it just feels like at the moment, a lot of the programs that have, you know, ebbed and flowed a little bit in history are peaking at the right time, right?

I mean, Michigan is, is as high a point as it has been, certainly since the Fab Five.

Illinois, which I think people have always viewed as like a program that It is good but not great, it's certainly knocking on the door of great at the moment and has every, I mean, talk about a place that has aligned things incredibly well and has all the resources behind the head coach and Brad Underwood, has everybody buying into a plan that is working, um, that is a place that could potentially win a national championship.

I think in the next, you know, 3 to 5 years.

Um, obviously, Purdue has maintained a very strong level.

And really, the, the one you're missing is, is Indiana, and can Indiana basketball get , get going at the level that you would expect.

But I would say for the most part, that the brands in the Big 10, I mean, Wisconsin's been very, very good consistently.

Um, the brands in the Big 10 have been, have been great, Izzo and Michigan State.

I mean, I, I, I think, I think you have to feel really good about the top of, of that conference at the moment, in a way that, you know, look, I, I think, When we talk about the title drought for the Big 10 in basketball, a lot of it was, in, in my opinion, the league had a lot of good and maybe not enough great, and I think part of this is NIL, part of this is coaching, part of this is, you know, luck and, and just kind of cyclical, uh, cyclical wins, etc.

but I think the Big 10 in the last couple of years has had a lot more great at the top, and that has given them a chance to, to kind of keep knocking on the door and, you know, finally break through here this year.

Oh yeah, definitely.

I mean, they, they've had really, really good teams.

And, um , you know, I, I think in the, in the past, certainly conference play, you know, there, there was that separation between conference play and, and the NCAA tournament experience, right?

And uh so, so many times the, the Big 10 kind of came up short, but um they've, they've consistently gotten great coaching and, and now, now the rosters to come with it.

And, um, you know, kind of to, to Kevin's earlier point, you know, it kind of felt like, um, you know, for From a talent recruiting standpoint, like, yes, the conference could, could lean into their Chicago roots and dip into New York City and go to, go to certain places, but, but now they truly are, you know, kind of a national conference, and I think that has helped kind of maybe, uh, some of those other middle tier, uh, and, and lower tier programs in terms of talent.

We, we've seen what Illinois has been able to do, uh, across the pond, you know, they, they're, they're searching and, and getting talent, getting good talent, um, you know, from other places that.

Some of the SEC programs maybe are a step behind, um, you know , uh, certainly this past year, uh, that was the case, maybe not, uh, two years ago when, when the SEC was, uh, you know, overly dominant, but, um, you know, this, this is a Big 10 program that or Big 10 conference that, you know, frankly has, uh, you know, come around to understanding success in, in men's basketball, certainly women's basketball as well.

It's, it's been, um, you know, a notable turnaround, you know, I think in terms of top to bottom, how, how much better, uh, the, the.

The Conference has been not just in league play but nationally, you know, in those marquee games, uh, in, in the non-conference, and, uh, certainly the NCAA tournament, you know, they've, they've made strides in terms of beating the teams that they, frankly came up short, you know, in the past.

And so I think it's, it's been notable that, uh, they've been able to not only get the national championship and kind of get that off that monkey off their back, but, uh, you know, really make some strides, um, you know, top to bottom of the league in terms of, uh, what, what they've been able to do on the court.

Yeah, they're in great shape in basketball, um, for the points you guys mentioned.

I, I would, uh, Michigan, Illinois, Michigan State, Purdue, but I would throw in UCLA as a good addition too.

I know, you know, despite the Mick Cronin complaint fest that accompanies every road trip, uh, across the nation, that, that, that program's in good shape with Mick.

They are.

They win games, they get to the tournament, they advance in the tournament, um, and they're, they are a net ad.

Uh, that's been really good , uh.

Indiana, you just get the feeling it's, it's coming, right?

I mean, they spent a lot of money uh in the portal, so we'll see how it translates onto the court, and I get the feeling they're gonna be there, but Uh, you just look across the board, and, and that is a league that should have You know, 89, 10 bids, and, and out of that group, half of them have a chance to go to a Final Four, you know, uh, go to Sweet 16 for sure, and then, you know, a cup 1 or 2 a year should be able to, to get to a Final Four, and then maybe one of them wins a title.

So we saw Michigan breakthrough, uh, so I'm, I'm very bullish on Big 10 basketball, but this is a podcast, we have to throw some negative in there too.

So, Kevin, what are the weaknesses of the league?

I mean, look, the, the, the one thing I would say is, I think the expansion to 18 teams.

You feel it more in basketball than you do in football, and you feel the way the schedule just sort of doesn't feel quite complete.

The champion feels somewhat arbitrary because the schedule is so unbalanced, um, you have all of these travel complaints and quote unquote, schedule losses, where, oh, you know, we had to get out west in 2 days, and, I mean, look, Mick complains a lot, um, he is not the best messenger for, for these things, but, like, His complaints are valid, like, it it it it is objectively very hard to win and, and we've, we, everybody does the sports science, these things, they, they know the difficulty of the travel, uh, and again, like, the lack of some of the rivalries being two time a year games now, uh, obviously , your best rivalries, your Purdue versus Indiana, you know, across Michigan, Michigan State, you'll get two of that, but There's a lot of really good regional games, you just don't get as regularly anymore, and I do think it contributes to a watered down regular season product in the Big 10.

Um, again, Is it worth the trade-off?

Probably, and, and I think the Big 10 does a great job of, you know, playing games and basketball almost every night, because of the TV deal and they have multiple partners, they're able to play, you know, there's like a Big 10 Network game on Monday night, and there's, you know, a couple of games on Fox on Tuesday, and there's a Peacock game Wednesday, like, I think that's been great for the league, cause it gives it a ton of exposure, but that adds to this sort of , like, weird watered down scheduling thing, and, like, yeah, like, I'm excited that, like, on a Monday night when there's not a lot of college basketball, that there's, like, a Rutgers Washington game, but, like, I don't know if everybody else is, I don't know if the fans of Rutgers are overly into the Rutgers Washington game, so I do worry about that long term, especially once teams are kind of, you know, seasons look sort of on on the ropes, like, how much do people care about the, you know, Oregon versus Penn State game in in in late February.

Yeah, I, I, I think the travel component is, is definitely, you know, leaning into the weakness for, for the league, and, and, and how can it not, you know, frankly, it is difficult and As, as a veteran of, of going in, you know, back and forth across the country, you know, uh, quite a bit, I, I understand those concerns that the, uh, the coaches bring up, the athletic directors, and I, I think the league is, is cognizant of that, you know, they, they have been trying to mitigate things as best they can to where, you know, if, if you are, you know, uh, a team on the East Coast and you're going out to, to the west, you know , you are spending a couple of days there, you're, you, you're staying in LA, you know, between games, um, not necessarily even in if you are playing, uh, USC or.

UCLA back to back , but, uh, you know, you're trying to mitigate those things as, as best they can, and, you know, frankly, it is difficult at times, you know, given the, the TV concerns of the league , you know, they do have a lot of mouths to feed from the inventory, and I think that does, uh, you know, contribute to, uh, you know, those, those random 10:00 p.m. Eastern games that, uh , you know, frankly, uh, you know, the, the teams do not show up for, you know, at times, and that, uh, contributes to some of the, uh, you know, middle and lower tier losses, you know, in the league and.

Uh, kind of, frankly, compacting, uh, kind of the middle tier and, and the lower tier of the league a little bit, uh, probably more than it should be, um, going in, going forward, but, um, you know, frankly, you know, it's still a good in a good position , right?

You know, I think in terms of, uh, that balance for the league in terms of having a league contenders that are still gonna be regular national title contenders as well as, uh, some of those teams that are, you know, are quote unquote rebuilding, um, that you kind of need on the schedule as well to, to kind of.

Uh, mitigate some of those things in, in conference play where it's not just every single game, uh, is, is a terrible grind.

And, um, yeah, I think that, for, for the most part, the league has come around, you know, to, to mitigating things as best they can, and, uh, we'll certainly see if that's gonna be going to continue to be the case, um, given the challenges that they have, you know, in terms of having 18 teams in, in general, and, and all the, all the ills that come with that, um, uh, on top of, uh, you know, frankly, a lot of programs and, um, you know, different, different points in their journey, if, if you could say that.

Yeah, I, Kevin, you mentioned that that it's a league strength, and you're right, that, that, that like they're, they are on TV every damn night, right?

I mean, there is a Big 10 game all the time.

I would like to be.

Uh, like at one of the meetings, if, if you're the guy, and I would be the guy, and I would be laughed out of the room when I bring up, so we're playing on Monday, we're playing on Friday, instead of playing on Saturday or Sunday, we're missing an extra day of class.

Uh, nobody gives a damn about going to class anymore.

So, that, that's the thing there is that, that I've, I've always wondered, hmm, you know, how exactly are, are, are we working this out academically, other than, again, the, the great miracle that nobody's ever ineligible anymore.

Um, and beyond that, beyond that, uh, weakness is, not a lot.

You would like to see, um, Ohio State get a little more traction, you know, they, John Deebler.

This needs to, I think, do a little more work there, uh, and, and get the Buckeyes back up to speed.

Uh, Indiana, we've talked about chronic underachiever there.

They have spent the money.

If they don't get it right this year, I don't know what the heck they're, you're gonna do there.

Greg Guard needs to get deeper into the tournament.

He's had some very good teams, very good seasons, and they get bounced early, fairly often.

USC continues to accumulate a lot of talent and doesn't necessarily do a lot with it, so I'd like to see a little bit more from them.

But it is a zero-sum game.

You got 18 teams, and when the Nebraska rises, somebody else gets pushed down the ranks.

Uh, my other thing too, like, at some point, I don't really wanna see it happen because I love having him around, but at some point, Tom Izzo is gonna stop coaching at Michigan State, and what happens there?

I don't think there's a, you know, clear cut.

Uh, succession sort of plan that you can come up with there, um, and he's just been an absolute superstar for 25 years, longer than that, really.

So are, are we sure that he won't keep coaching forever?

I mean, he might try, you know, I mean, what is he now, 70, something like that, 71, um.

Uh, it's possible, him and his accordion could be around for 10 more years.

Uh, there's no, he's probably sitting there saying, as long as Pitino's going, I'm going, you know, that sort of thing.

So, it's possible.

Um, all right, the tentpole Olympic sport, I'll handle this one.

I did my research on this.

Uh, it's very easy, it's very cut and dry.

They're good in a lot of sports, but wrestling, 19 straight NCAA championships, 5 straight from Penn State.

Uh, in that span, they've also had, uh, the runner-up 12 times.

So that is, uh, wrestling Central there in the Big 10.

It's, it's Penn State, it's Iowa, it's Ohio State, uh, a lot of good programs there, and they have totally dominated in that sport.

Uh, next item here, how secure is the commissioner, Tony Pettitti.

Uh, Brian, what do you think?

Well, I would, I would just follow up and, and say women's volleyball in, in particular too.

Another, uh, big people.

The final was two SEC schools last year.

I, I'll give you that, but you know what, the, the Penn State's and the Nebraska's and the, you know, in terms of spending, like you, you look at some of the, the spending, uh, in terms of some of those non-revenue sports, um, you know, women's volleyball is up there, so that's a big team product nowadays for.

Big 10 Network and others as well.

So, throw that in there, but uh in terms of Tony Petitti, I mean, um, you know, secure is an interesting, uh, you know, phrasing there, there, Pat, because, you know, I think in terms of the league itself, you know, he's, he's extremely secure and, and probably more well-liked internally, uh, inside the Big 10 than, than I think any, any commissioner at this point in terms.

The Power Five in terms of, you know, kind of unity, uh, amongst its members and, um, seeing what, certainly some of that has to do with the checks that are rolling in and, and the, and the strength of the league, uh, on the field or on the court, um, you know, generally, that, that has a lot to do with it.

But, um, you know, there's, there's definitely a dichotomy in terms of the perception of, of Tony Petitti.

Uh, externally outside of the Big 10 stakeholders and internally, and I, I think it's, it's pretty positive internally.

Now, externally, yes, like there's, there's been some slings and arrows, and those, a lot of those are self-inflicted on Tony Battti's, uh, behalf, you know, he does not speak to.

Uh, the, the media like us, as often as some of his colleagues, you know, I think that contributes to an image of, of him kind of in, in his high castle, if you will, a little bit, um, and, uh , kind of pulling him away from, uh, the, the day to day, being the day to day face of, of a lot of issues.

You know, you go back to, uh, that presidential committee that met in Washington DC, you know, Jim Phillips is out there speaking, uh, you know, uh, Greg Sankey is out there speaking, you know, uh, some of, some of the other commissioners out there, and , and Tony Petitti, you know, he, he's, he's, he's happy to be silent and happy to be behind .

and, um, you know, it is, it is funny because I think there is, um, you know, you, you talk with folks about Tony and, um, you know, internally, they say, oh, he's, he's such a great guy and, uh, you know, they talk about how personable he is and how he's, you know, he's always following up and he's on the phone and talking with a lot of people and, um, you just do not get that sense publicly, you know, it is definitely much, uh, very much a, a dichotomy between his, his internal persona in the Big 10 and, um, kind of his, his external perception and frankly, pushing NCAA tournament expansion, pushing college football.

Playoff expansion like he has.

Um, you know, I, I don't think that has helped his image, uh, you know, in terms of outside of the Big 10, in terms of how fans, you know, just regular fans, you know, view, view Tony.

So, I think that's, um, you know, the, the interesting spot that he has put in that is, is much different from a lot of his peers, but, um, you know, in terms of how security is, um, pretty secure at this point.

And I think a lot of it too has to do with, there's been a pretty big amount of turnover in terms of his actual bosses, in terms of the Big 10 presidents.

Um, I think that's important to keep in mind there's, there's been a Um, you know, uh, pretty hefty, uh, turnover in terms of some of those names and faces that ultimately hired him, uh, back in the day to, to what, uh, what the group is now, and, um, you know, he, he's probably pretty secure in terms of, uh, relative to his peers, and, uh, I think that shows up in terms of, uh, these, these big, big 10 meetings that we're gonna have, um, you know, this week.

Uh, I think it's just gonna be a lot of kumbaya and a lot of praise for him, even though externally, uh, especially this playoff push, um, that, that has not been, been the case around Tony Pitti.

I, I'm probably more interested in, like, what is Tony Pettitti's long-term plan, and does it involve the Big 10, right?

I think a lot of these guys that come in from, from outside and, you know, his predecessor, Kevin Warren is probably a good example of this, like, wanted to achieve one or two massive kind of tent pole, like, I did this, this is my lasting impact, now it's time for me to get back to professional sports, right?

And for Tony Pettitti is that And college football playoff expansion, like, what, what, what, what are the goals for him?

Does he view this as his last job?

Does he want to be here, um, for the long term, or is he plotting to, you know, either a commissionership in professional sports or a team president or something like that?

I think I would, I would be intrigued to see kind of the Tony Pettitti long-term vision, cause I do think, particularly as long as things are going well in the Big 10, it's gonna be hard for him to lose the type of support that he seems to have internally at the moment.

Yeah, I mean, it's all rolling his way right now, uh, clearly.

And, and I think there was, even as recently as last summer, it's amazing how fast these things change.

But last summer, there was some frustration within the league that basically, Tony's big stratagem was to promise both Fox and the, the AD's, hey, we're gonna make a ton more money cause I'm gonna get this 2014 playoff through.

And it wasn't happening.

But now, woo, turn it around a year, it's on the verge of happening, it may, it still may still get blocked, uh, and we can talk about just the, the.

The incredible circumstances that led the leaders of college sports to give the entire Uh, shape and form of the playoffs to two leagues to decide, incredible.

Uh, the same people who, you know, also gained control of, of expanding the NCAA tournament cause they threatened they were gonna go do their own thing.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

But the, uh, the, no, there, there were people, there was a lot of frustration with Tony as, as at last year's.

Uh, football media days.

I thought both internally and externally, and it's, I guess he's, he's been very dogged in trying to get his, uh, his vision to come to reality, and is apparently now close to having it happen.

So, you know, for whatever that's worth, he's at least, he has shown some perseverance and some, some persuasiveness, I guess, that, that, as you said, Brian, it doesn't come across publicly, but Uh, in, in back rooms or whatever, he must be good.

Um.

And in terms of, yes, like what's his long-term play, I, I, you know, I looked at him like a lot of guys, I thought as a potential hit and run commissioner.

Uh, just like you were laying out, Kevin, he is in his mid-60s, I believe.

And so what, you know, what is there a next move, or is this the kind of thing you say, Oh, you know, Rob Manfred is, you know, his, his contract is up soon at, at Major League Baseball, and he's obviously got a tremendous, um, you know, been, been in the league office for a long time.

I think that's, uh, something that is definitely on a lot of people internally in the Big 10, uh, you know, footprint in terms of the radar as, as being a possible option, uh, for him.

So that's, that's gonna be one to keep an eye out for sure.

Interesting.

Well, yeah, when you, if you, if you bump him into him there at the spa, uh, give him, ask him, while you're all are getting the facials and the sound therapy and, and all that, uh, see if we can find out what, what Tony Pettitti's next plan is.

Um, all right, moving down the list here.

Uh, what school swings the biggest stick within the league?

Kevin, what do you think?

I mean, I still think it has to be Ohio State, you know, arguably the best football program in America, year in and year out, uh, just a massive brand , a massive property, uh, from a TV standpoint, um, that I think every one of the Big Ten's many TV partners wants as much a piece of as possible, and Uh, I, I, I know there's been a lot written about how it won't be easy necessarily for, uh, someone to mimic what Duke basketball just did with Amazon Prime and found a little carve-out and squeeze some extra money their way, but, you know, Ohio State seems like the program that would have the most power to try something like that, and try to um sell off the individual rights to, you know, maybe one or two monster neutral games in the next several years, and You know, be fascinated to see what a number would look like for that, because they certainly, um, when, when Ohio State football plays, people watch, I think the, the ratings numbers are pretty evident with that over the last uh, many years.

Well, I, I think we can also point to the recent, uh, you know, uh, private capital deal, you know, that the Big 10 was involved with us in terms of who are those power players.

Well, yes, in terms of pushing it, it was, was Ohio State, and, uh, they, they did not get their way because of Michigan, and USC, you know, one of the, one of the newbies, you know, I think that has been the, probably the most interesting development of these last couple of years is, uh, certainly, Michigan has been, uh , overly active in, in terms of conference matters, uh, compared to maybe You know, setting things aside or, or letting Ohio State take the lead, uh, even though they might agree with the, the, the Buckeyes across state lines there, um, you know, it's definitely been, uh, a top-heavy in terms of it's been Ohio State, Michigan historically, but, uh, I think you are seeing more voices, uh, you know, step to the table.

Uh, USC has has certainly spoken up.

You've seen Penn State be a little bit more active, so, and not just, uh, kind of , uh, a one conference school, uh, if you will, in terms of, uh, following the lead, and I think that's been.

Uh, a notable development in these last, um, say 5, 1015 years or so, uh, that, that wasn't necessarily the case.

It was, it was as Ohio State and Michigan go, uh, so does the league, but, uh, I think that that's changed a little bit, um, you know, in, in recent years, and part of that, you know, just strong personalities at a lot of these other schools also speaking up, you know, you are more, uh, you know, an Illinois president here or, uh, an AD at, at various places, uh, you know, stepping up and, and, uh, speaking a little bit louder, uh.

than, than the historical norms.

So you've seen Indiana, you know, uh, another school, um, you know, certainly in football has, has certainly helped their case, but, um, they, they've been more involved in, in conference matters, and, uh, coming to the table with ideas and, and things to do and, and, and whatnot.

So I think it's, it's been different, you know, for, uh, the conference overall, but it's still, let's face it, you know, this is, uh, still gonna be defined by, uh, that Ohio State, Michigan, uh, duo in, in terms of the top of the league and, uh, where, where they're ultimately driven to.

Yeah, it's interesting.

I mean, I think that without question, Ohio State still is the center of gravity, um, if you, if you will, of the league, even with the transitions that have gone on.

I mean, Gene Smith was As much of an institution of an athletic director and had the gravitas and was on every big NCAA committee, and I felt like you just kind of looked at him as, as the, the, the wise voice of the league, and he's gone.

Ross Bjork is in , uh, they've got a new president coming in, that there's been a lot of turnover, but I still think Ohio State just has that institutional momentum.

And obviously, the change from Urban Meyer to Ryan Day was significant in, in terms of just keeping the football uh going.

But, you know, I think that you look there, Michigan, obviously, a, a good Good point, Brian, that, that they were as, as important as anybody in knocking down that private equity deal.

Uh, USC did play a role, which was interesting, but USC should be one of those schools that has a big voice.

It's an important institution in general.

Uh, you know , I think Oregon, Rob Mullins has been there for quite a while and has really established himself as the athletic director there.

So I think that's, that's another.

Uh, it continuing to, the rising, uh, impact, I think, probably in, in league sayings.

So, you know, I, I, It's, it's, it's still Ohio State's league, so to speak, if you gotta cut it down to just one school, but there's probably a little more diversity just for the fact that there's more teams in the league.

OK, brass tacks, football-wise, uh , Brian Fisher, how many college football playoff bids will the Big 10 get in 2026?

Well , I feel pretty confident, uh, that, that it's 4, you know, at a, at a minimum.

The question is, can they, can they get a 5th?

Um, you know, you, you definitely look at that kind of Indiana, Ohio State, Oregon trio as, as almost locks at at this point, um, you know, given how strong they are, what the, the teams they have coming back.

Um, I, I think that the calculus for the Big 10, has changed a little bit, uh, in terms of that playoff bid, in terms of what that ultimate number is, simply because the SEC is, is moving to 9-conference games and, and they have evened up on that front, and so I think there's gonna be certainly more losses to those middle tier SEC teams that, um, you know, instead of being a 10 and 2, they are 9 and 3 and then that pulls in a Michigan, USC, and Iowa, you know, some of those other teams right there right now we're debating strength of schedule.

Now we're debating how good your quarterback, now how good are those offensive defensive lines.

Yeah , I think there's, there's gonna be a little bit more of a test for the committee, uh, this year, and frankly, it probably helps the Big 10, uh, too that a lot of those top tier teams in the, in the league are playing each other a little bit.

More often than they have been, uh , in the past, you know, there, there's certain, some, certain scenarios where teams would be ducking them in terms of the schedule, and, uh, you wouldn't quite get that apple to apple, uh , comparison.

So I'm gonna say 5.

I think that's going out on the limb a little bit, um, you know, especially given the strength in the SEC and what they got coming back, uh, at places like quarterback, but, um, I think it's, it's gonna be a strong year for the Big 10, and I think we're gonna see that reflected and in terms of the number of college football playoff that they get.

Who's the 4th and who's the 5th?

Uh, you know, I, I think Michigan and USC are, are probably the, the, the best candidates, uh, right now in terms of what Kyle Whittingham has coming back.

You have, uh, you know, an established quarterback in Bryce Underwood, um, you know, I think they, they like what they've gotten at, at the skill positions, um, in terms of, uh, you know, what they've inherited and what they've got out of the portal.

Some of the freshmen have stepped up in, in terms of Michigan.

Obviously, some big test with that Oklahoma game, uh, in the big house, you know, that, that's a big one to circle in terms of that college football playoff viability.

That might, that game itself, you know.

Might determine in terms of which one of those two leagues, whether it's an Oklahoma type of, type of school or a Michigan team, uh, ends up getting an extra bid.

Um, you look at USC and the strength they had, they, they have a much more difficult schedule, um, and even, even a Penn State, uh, out there, which does miss a lot more of those top tier teams, um, you know, with Matt Campbell coming in, I know expectations are a little bit lower there, uh, you know, in Happy Valley, but they've got continuity in terms of some of that roster that have played together at Iowa State that is moving to a new league, but, uh, Um, you know, that they, that they seem to like, and, uh, you know, the schedule does set up well for, for them to maybe be a team that surprises, um, and in terms of, you know, your, your Washington's, um, you know, of, of the year, uh, you know, what, what Nebraska is coming back, you know, you can maybe say, uh, they, they're a team that does is on the edge.

Illinois has certainly been building that you expect them to take a little bit of a step back.

Minnesota continually, uh, surprises under PJ Fleck in terms of the level of play that they, uh, have been, you never know what, what they're do, they, they're able to do, uh, in terms of the.

And so, um, you know, it's gonna be a very interesting year in the, in the Big 10, and, um, frankly, it's probably gonna come down to those marchs.

I, I would tend to lean towards Michigan and USC being those two teams, um, that, that could also, uh , you know, sneak into the college football playoff race, but, um, you know, it's, it's, it's gonna be a fascinating race.

I, I think overall, just in terms of looking at this conference, you have those kind of big three, for sure.

Yeah, those next tier of contenders, and then, um, you have some, everybody else after that, uh, makes for a fascinating year in, in the Big 10 for sure.

I mean, I think the league, I, I've got 4 bids, um, you know, the 3 big ones and the 4th floater, which I think, you know, I, I think Michigan's a good bet for , I think USC is also a good bet for.

Like, I, I think the league needs the top 3 to lose a couple games, right?

Like, like, I think about last year and looking at schedules and, and people plotting out, oh, well, you know, could Illinois be a, a, a playoff dark horse, you know, they have this big home game against Ohio State, it should be a massive one.

You know, like, the league needs the Illinois of the world to win that game occasionally, and I, I think, quite frankly, the last couple of years, the best of the best in the Big 10 have been too bulletproof, and, you know, I, I think for, you know, for for the league's sake, both from an interest standpoint and also from a playoff standpoint, like, like, you need tier 2 and tier 3 on your home field to be able to pull off the quote unquote, unthinkable once, once, once in a while, and, and that's how, uh, you know, Whether it's a a Penn State this year, or USC even working further, further down, you know, these teams with manageable schedules, Washington is, is a great example of this, I believe.

If you look at Washington's schedule uh for this season and, and, and the opportunities that they have, the schedule looks really light.

And then all of a sudden it's like, all right, well, we've we've got a huge one at the end of the year at home against Indiana on November 21st, like, those are the games that get you in the playoffs, those are the games that make you allow you to leave, no doubt, and I think when you look at Uh, some of the teams in, in this conference to, to, to, for it to really consolidate bids and take 456, it's gonna take some, some upsets and some, you know, all right, we're, we're 7 point dogs at home.

What, what, what do you got?

Uh, what do you got, Demon Williams?

Yeah, I guess, I think that's a, a, a very good point that, that.

You need a second tier of teams, uh, that, that can win enough games with the chips down and everybody watching, uh, to, to all of a sudden get yourself that 4th, 5th team in the playoffs.

I'm gonna say they get 4.

I do think Ohio State, Indiana, Oregon are the obvious 3.

I waffle, I, I, I like Washington a bit in that spot for the 4th spot, uh, it, but USC and Michigan certainly will be there.

We'll see if somebody else can rise up.

You know, and, and butt their way in, but that's kind of where, where I'm seeing things there.

The, uh, The, the, the, the, you know, the, the regular season continues to, to be just hard to pin down when nobody plays.

They, they, you know, there's just not enough cross-pollination of who's playing each other to know for sure who all your best teams are, but that's, that's what conferences sign up for when they go to 18 teams, is, is you just have a hard time coming up with balanced schedules.

All right, uh, last thing here on the Big 10.

In 5 years, the Big 10 will be blank, Kevin.

I'll go with rich.

Um, yeah, the, the, the money, the, the checks are gonna keep flowing.

I think there will only continue to be more opportunities for, for the league to continue to, um, build up massive revenue streams, whether that be through kind of the traditional.

Uh, TV rights, and I think their deal is up 20/30, correct me if I'm wrong, or that, or thereabouts, um, but also, again, the opportunities that, that, that they'll continue to have, um, with, with some of the, you know, 2nd and 3rd tier, um, financial opportunities, I think the Big 10 is, is well positioned to cash in on.

Again, this is a national conference that is dominated.

The top of the big revenue sports, I think this is still an opportunity for, for growth, and it does seem like, you know, again, criticize Tony Pettitti, however you like, they're finding ways to, to continue to tap into more revenue streams, playoff expansion, etc.

uh, that will make the Big 10 coffers even, uh, even a bit richer than they were before.

I, I, I would say still locked into a, uh, a war with the SEC, you know, this is, uh, this is still, you know, the an SEC Big 10 battle.

Uh, we, we've seen that these past couple of years.

I, I think we're gonna continue to that , that be the case, you know, these, these two conferences, it is a power too in terms of the resources, in terms of You know, the coaching talent in terms of the rosters that uh you're building.

You wanna talk about 40+ million dollars dollar football rosters?

All right, there's, there's gonna be quite a few of them in the Big 10, and, uh, that, that's gonna continue to be the case in, in men's basketball in terms of big spenders, you know, this is going to be Big 10 versus the SEC.

That, that's a, that's a narrative that has certainly developed, uh, these last couple of years as, as expansion has taken hold, but, um, it's, it's true on the field, and I think that we're gonna continue to see that be the case.

Um.

Uh , curious to see, you know, certainly there will be some impacts in terms of, right, what is the size of the playoffs, you know, will, will that impact the Big 10 in terms of actually winning it all, um, you know, the same, same in men's basketball, especially with, uh, NCAA tournament expansion coming and, and potentially some extra, uh, pass there, uh, for, for additional teams from the conference, but, um, you know, all signs point to this continuing to be a conference that's right there in terms of the top and, and, uh, battling it out from the SEC for ultimate superiority in college athletics.

Yeah, I mean , they, they should still be at the top of the heap.

Uh, my hope is that there is still an actual full unified heap, and that we have a You know, 130 school FBS and we have a 360 school NCAA Division One, and that the Big 10 has not been Uh, vital in wrecking all of that.

I, I am pessimistic about the way things are going, but that's my hope.

We'll see.

Uh, the Big 10 is gonna be fine no matter what, which is another reason why continuing to take a wrecking a ball to things, uh, drives me crazy.

Like they, they're doing this when they don't really need to do it, but That's where we are.

So we will see all things Big 10.

Uh, we'll see what comes out of the spa treatments there in California.

Brian will have updates, so be looking for his stories from out there.

One other thing, one other story we've got to get to, fellas, because we always got to get to one more story here.

Uh, this is kind of Big 10 adjacent, if you will.

And Brian, this is your sport, this is soccer or football, as they say over there.

The telegraph.

UK reports that William Salt, a first team performance analysis intern.

was found loitering next to a tree recording Middlesboro training.

He's got, we've got a Connor Stallions of English soccer.

This is the next thing.

This is, this is Connor Stallions in in Europe.

So the Southampton analyst at the center of Spygate has been unmasked as more rivals launch investigations into feared espionage.

So Salt caught in the act, they got a picture of him standing behind a tree with his phone, uh, like trying to, trying to get video.

Not very, you know, not all that stealthy, but then again, neither was Connor Stallions.

Uh, Brian, this is your sport.

Tell us what the hell is going on, if this is uh an epidemic, if this is a scandal, what, what, what's happening over there?

Well, it's, it's certainly, it's not the first time that we've had a kind of counter stallions type of, uh, scam, you know, scandal for spying, uh, in, in , uh, involved in, in European soccer and then certainly not in the UK and it, it, it's funny like there is like a, there, there, the, the, I think it's the athletic published a picture of the guy like by a tree, you know, just holding up the back and it, it, it's a big deal.

Look, this is a big deal because this is both teams are involved in the championship playoffs, you know, if you go through that, uh you can get into the Premier League, that's, you know, it's worth hundreds of millions.

Dollars for uh your, your football club.

So it is a big deal and uh I mean, there's, there's been talk of certainly Middlesbrough's called for Southampton to, to be suspended for that and, and not end up playing and to be kicked out of the championship playoffs.

So it, it is a massive deal.

I think the, the, the best detail though is that, uh, the, the, apparently the guy went to a coffee shop or whatever and like that's how they know that it was him, and so they, he, he like used his credit card at a , at a coffee shop, at a golf club that the Middlesbr owner, uh, Uh, ended up owning.

So like it, it, it's, it, it's a big-time scandal, uh, across the pond, certainly, and, um, you know, rightfully so, uh, I, I think Middle Middlesboro has, has a right to, to be upset about this one, even though in terms of what are you actually gaining, uh, you know, from, from filming and training, I don't think it's that much, uh, but, uh, at the end of the day, they, they are right, as this is like Spygate number 2 or 3, over, over across the pond.

Uh, they, they're all, all, all, uh, understandably, uh, upset about uh.

And we'll see what ultimately ends up happening because this is a, this is a pretty big deal in terms of, uh, you know, where these two teams end up playing next year.

Yeah, Kevin, what do we do with William Salt here?

I mean, I, I, I want this guy in the media.

I mean, Connor Stallions, Connor Stallions has, has positioned himself well.

He's, he's made quite, quite a career.

He's, he's, he's had his statements.

I need to read this guy's manifesto.

I need, I need, I need to know everything there is to know about this guy.

And I also need to know, like, what, like , what defense does he have, you know, he says.

You, you, you, you just mentioned it, Brian, that you bought the coffee on the golf course.

I mean, I need to see, like, did he play 9?

Does he, does he have clubs?

Uh, I mean, Connor Stallions would have purchased golf clubs and been carrying a golf bag with him, so no one would have, would have noticed.

I, I think this guy's a little sloppy and could, could have learned a thing or two, from, from our favorite Michigan man.

Yeah, yeah, of course, Connor, you know, he wasn't all that stealthy with the ticket buying himself, but, uh, Yeah, we could have, and a little bit like a disguise or something, you know, Connor, when he, when he disguised himself as a Central Michigan staffer, this guy, he, he, he needs to learn, he needs to read Connor's manifesto and or talk to him and say, you gotta teach me how to be a better spy.

So, uh, some, some good nostalgic, uh, talk there for, for the Michigan fans.

They love the Connor Stallions, uh, era.

They loved it because they won a championship, but Uh, we'll see what happens with old William Salt.

Um, we'll, we'll keep you apprised on that.

That could be an ongoing saga here.

That's the show.

Thank you for listening.

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Oh boy, is it gonna be a big week for the SEC.

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