Vince Morales: Life After the UFC and the Fight to Get Back

What's up guys?

This is in the Corner with Destiny McCovin.

I'm Doug Vasquez, and I'm super excited today.

We are joined by a very good friend of mine, somebody who is a veteran of the game, done a lot, seen a lot, accomplished a lot, Vince Morales.

Thank you, thank you.

It's good, it's good to be here.

Good to be here, of course.

Thank you for being here.

I know you're busy.

You got a lot going on.

You're going to.

I think we're gonna check out Tokyo where I was last time.

Yeah, we're gonna meet some more family and then, uh, we're hiking Mount Fuji.

Oh, it's gonna be, what is that like?

Like, do you know, like the, the, the, the time or what or, uh, I think it's like a 2, it's like broken up between 2 days.

I think we stop halfway up at some lodge or something up there and then finish the hike in the morning.

sick.

You gotta vlog that.

Yeah, I will, I will.

Yeah, that's the one time I'm gonna bring that back for sure.

Is that near where you're gonna be?

Is that near where you went when you did competed for Risen?

Um, I think we're gonna spend a little bit of time over there and then we take the bullet train to her hometown and then the train from there to.

The base of Mount Fuji, I believe they did all the planning.

I'm just there for the ride.

Have you been to Japan?

I have not.

No, I have Tokyo is on my list though.

It's the best, and, and they have such a big fighting culture over there, right?

Yeah, it's like the martial arts motherland.

What was it like being over there competing?

I was over there for like a month and a half or so training for the fight, uh, with Kaya Sakura.

Shout him out.

Uh, he's the man.

Uh, he took me over there.

He needed a training partner.

He had a big fight against Juan Archuleta coming up, and, uh.

They got me on the card as like a thank you and I was like, OK, hell yeah.

And, uh, that was one of my favorite martial arts experiences, any experience of all time, dude.

Just the, the people were all great.

The food was every meal was like my favorite meal I ever had.

That's why I wanna go to Tokyo.

The food's great.

Food's great.

Yeah, and uh that was, uh, New Year's Eve, right?

Yeah, that was on the New Year's card.

Yeah, it was sick.

And from beginning to end, like it was sold out.

The crowd was there for the whole thing, not like in the states where they're waiting for the main card.

They're there for the whole show.

It's so sick.

What was the walkout like?

Oh, I was, oh man, it was, it was epic.

I had a like a half samurai mask just to kind of jump, jump into the vibe.

I, I started dyeing my hair again, which I hadn't did, I hadn't done since high school wrestling.

Um, still went with the same OG like yellow and red color.

Um, that was our high school team colors, and, uh, I did that for the state tournaments and brought it back for that, and I haven't stopped doing it since.

Hell yeah, um, what did, what, how did you like fighting in a ring?

I think I like it better.

I think it suits my style a little better just because, uh, I got a bit of a pressure without the takedowns, so like easier to cut off because it's square right versus, uh.

Bigger steps, more room in the cage.

So, um, I think for my style like I was able to unleash like combination on combination and it just seemed to complement it.

Speaking of resin, do you plan on any, uh, insight on maybe going back over there?

I would love to.

I would love to, uh, hopefully I can meet up with Kai and some of those guys when I go back and see what I can get stirred up.

How long will you guys be there?

I think just 1 week, yeah, so 5 days because there's like 2 days of travel or something.

I mean you've got 27 fights under your pro belt, right, on your, your, you're as a professional, so you went pro in 2015.

How, what's the, the ride for 27 fights like what, uh, if I had it my way there'd be more like, like, or injuries and just like a certain point I couldn't get fights for a long time like, so I, I try to get as much as possible.

Like we can only do this sport for so long, so the more I can get done the better for me.

So I would like more, but Yeah, since starting kind of late, I think I was 24 when I started fighting , started training 23 somewhere around there, and, uh, got kind of a late start, so I was trying to gun it.

What made you, uh, go turn to fighting at such a, you know what, being so old, well, not old, but older, you know, 23.

What were you doing before, like before that when you were at 23 or whatever, uh, just kind of working some odd jobs a little bit like, uh , uh, I wrestled in high school and I just really missed competing, and, uh, I think wrestling in high school kind of saved me and like.

Made me the kind of person I, I grew in to be and then without that I was kind of just, I was partying a lot and just I was working a lot but partying a lot and working and working out like just kind of hanging out small town, small town stuff, yeah, yeah.

My town's only got like 10,000 people, so there's Ontario, Ontario, Oregon, yeah, and, uh, and it's, there's just not a lot over there so it's easy to get caught up in some BS and, uh, then I finally stumbled my way into an MMA gym that we had practiced once or twice a week.

Um, and then I did my own training.

I learned some stuff on YouTube and I just ripped out drills on the bag until I got decent enough to where I was like, I'm gonna get in some fights.

OK, so it wasn't a part of the plan.

You just kind of, you, you know, you, you picked it pretty much and you just were good, good at it.

I was , I was like kind of natural, I guess, yeah, like, uh.

Um, I always in high school I always envisioned like dude, if I could do something athletic for like my career I'd be so happy and I think that pushed me that way a little bit and then when it finally started happening like I had one amateur MMA fight and I was like that was pretty cool.

I'm gonna go do some boxing so I did like 10 amateur boxing and then uh.

I lost one of those and I was doing pretty good and I was like, dude, I think I can do something good with this and I just kept sending it every time.

Yeah, I feel like when you watch you compete, you're definitely more a well rounded fighter, but you wrestled in high school.

So would you say, did you, would you say that that you, you took that with you when you started training, or are you more of a boxer because you have great striking?

Yeah, I think, uh, I think I took the mindset and like athletic approach that I had that I learned in wrestling to.

Boxing and fighting and uh I think boxing just came a little more natural and then at the time when I was starting everybody had bad hands.

Nobody could strike so I was like in the day, so I got a little bit of boxing, dude, and I was like, dude, I'm way better than these guys.

So I didn't even do do jiu-jitsu until I was like 4 pro fights in.

Oh wow, OK, um, did you, so you had better hands, but did you feel, did you notice that you had like your wrestling came back, uh, every night like a common theme real early, I'd hurt him on the feet and then take them down.

I'd hurt them and then take them down just because it made the takedown so much easier.

So like.

I got a few.

I ended up getting a few submissions as an amateur and then my first pro fight, I subbed a purple belt and I was like, bro, I don't need jiu-jitsu.

This shit's easy.

So I like I had a, I had a very, very like rough understanding of jiu-jitsu and then I lost by a submission and I was like.

Yeah, OK, I gotta go learn it.

And now you have a pretty good submission game.

Yeah, now it might be too good to where like, now I don't strike as much because I'm looking to get to the, so like it's all about the balance and uh, I, I just go back and forth on it.

What is the biggest difference like to the casual fan wrestling versus jiu-jitsu if you could sum it up in like a couple sentences, uh , wrestling.

In a couple sentences, how do you, so, um, looking at it for the layman's like wrestling is the top control, being on top, moving around, or being able to get off the bottom.

Jiu-jitsu is being on bottom or being able to put somebody in a spot where they want to tap out.

That's like those are the two things because there's no tapouts in wrestling .

So, so since you started late in the jiu-jitsu, you know, game, what, at what point were you like, damn, I'm actually, I'm good at this?

Uh, that wasn't really.

Until I think I got my boo belt right before I came to syndicate.

This was like 20 I don't even know my years, dude.

This might have been 2020, I think it was 2020.

I think it was like right after COVID.

I tried to go during the start of COVID and like.

tore my Achilles, so that put me off till like till like the beginning of 2021 is when I really started training over at Syndicate and then uh .

Yeah, I just, I just started really getting acquainted with how jiu-jitsu works and kind of fell in love with that.

And yeah, now, now like that's a big part of my game.

You know, your wife, she's, um, big in jiu-jitsu.

She's a brown belt.

Uh, did, do you, did that help, you know, like being able to train together and stuff can help your, your own game?

Yeah, for sure.

She's my favorite drilling partner.

I, I barely drill with anybody else.

I drill with her.

She's little, but she will roll you up like a pretzel.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Did you start in a gee, or have you done gee?

Is there strictly no?

I've done a little bit of gee just enough to get my purple belt, and then I got my purple belt, and I was like, all right, I'm done with gee because it just doesn't translate the same to, to MMA.

We just had Kenny in here and he says that's a thing in jiu-jitsu like you can't really get that belt unless it's in a gee, right?

Yeah, yeah, but I think a lot of gyms nowadays they're starting to, they're awarding for no gee progression as well.

Yeah, that's what we're doing now at, at syndicate and, uh, and yeah, it's like it's just.

like the, the evolvement, right?

Like that's kind of like a lot of places don't really do anymore.

It's kind of sad for the jiu-jitsu people.

I think they hate it.

G's way different, dude.

Anytime I roll with Shinu in the gee, all of a sudden she's way stronger than me.

Oh dude, she's good in the gi, dude in the gee, she's dirty.

She's armbarred me a few times where like my arm has hurt for a couple of weeks.

She put Shane Shane to sleep once, remember?

Oh, that's right.

Paul, yeah, yeah, she's a monster, uh-huh, yeah, she's, she's, she sure is, um, so coming up in , in Idaho, where did you start?

Oregon, right?

Uh, fighting, so it's very small.

I'm so, so kind of how it worked over there like I trained in Oregon myself essentially.

I had, I had because that's where you're from, that's where I'm from, yeah, so like.

Um, it being so small there's not a lot there, so Boise, Idaho is like an hour away, so eventually I found a gym , uh, well.

Um, my good buddy Casey Johnson and, uh, my old coach at the time Tony Frickland, they, they were starting a gym over there and they hit me up because they'd seen me on the, on the regional scene in Boise.

So I was always the outsider fighting the Boise guys, and then , uh, they kind of caught wind of me and, uh, invited me to come train and then got a pretty good relationship with those guys and really developed like into an MMA instead of a, a wrestle boxer.

Yeah, so you were training in Ontario at first.

Um, is, how is the, the scene out there for training?

Is that where Ricky is?

No, no, Ricky's over in Portland.

Well, he's.

Vancouver, Washington, but, uh, trains in Portland.

OK, so Ricky Simon is his cousin.

Simone Simone, I'm sorry.

I'm gonna tell him you said that.

Yeah, no, he's gonna be I'm never coming on her show.

Yeah, he's moving here.

He gets here on, uh, the day before we leave.

One of my favorite knockouts, I think it was 2 cars ago in Seattle, was his knockout in Seattle.

Oh, where he just, that was insane.

It was vicious.

Javits Javit's really hard to hit clean, and it was just straight through, like took his head off, you know.

I've been telling Ricky for a long time like.

Uh, because his wrestling threats so heavy, like to faint that level change and come up with a 3-2 because he got, he's got a nice left hook too, and that's kind of did that and pulled in with a big 3 and crushed him with a beautiful, beautiful picture perfect.

Did he start a little older too, or was he kind of in the, in the fight life early on?

Um, well, we were in the fight life together as kids because we were, we're just on little trailer park kids.

So like, so like we were just like they'd come over, uh, to Ontario and, and like we'd just hang out all summer and like bully each other and fight each other and stuff and.

Um, I remember when I found out he was fighting, I think we were both just about to go pro or something, and then we found out that we were fighting and kind of set the message around, bro, you're fighting.

He goes, You're fighting.

I was like, Well, it makes sense for you.

Like, I used to cry a lot, so it didn't make much sense for me.

It's all right, we're all criers here, you know.

Uh, so when you, when you guys, you know, entered your career, uh, would you guys like help each other out a lot in camps and stuff, mostly just through like kind of talking every now and then through camps like, uh, um, we'd be able to utilize each other and really get some training in, but Not as much as we'd like.

Um, thankfully, better late than never.

He's getting this way and we'll be able to train together for a consistent basis for the first time ever.

That's gonna be great.

What do you think that's gonna do for you and, you know, your own training?

I think that's just gonna level me up.

Yeah, I, I think, I think both of us, I think we do, since we know each other so well, I think we, we know how to, we know the fight language too, so we can really help each other understand from a different perspective and maybe just piggyback our way to each other.

You guys corner each other.

Uh, we have, yeah, lots of times, yeah, stressful.

Yeah, I bet more stressful than when you're fighting, probably, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd rather be the one fighting than the one cornering.

It's the worst, right?

Um, so you came up, you made your pro debut in 2015.

Was that with, who was that with?

That was with Myself, sort of, so I had a, um, when the MMA gym in my hometown kind of stopped, it just stopped all of a sudden, uh.

I was just hitting the bag by myself and doing my own kind of drills in the gym and, uh.

I grew up with, uh, there was some boxers in my hometown that I grew up with, and one of them found out I was fighting, and he was wanting to get back into fighting.

So like we coached each other, so, uh, I helped him out with some with his last boxing match.

This is David Lopez.

He's, he's the man, and, uh, he helped get me more acquainted with some boxing stuff, and he was my corner for my first like 3 fights.

OK, uh, when did you start fighting for Front Street?

So, uh, fun story, that's how we met.

Um, my, my second amateur fight and you were already I think we fought on the same card 2015 that that Courtneylood, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was one of my best fights fights.

I think Vita went on that.

That was her debut, I think that was only like maybe the 6th or 7th show Front, maybe not even that far in Front Street used to be.

I think it was like Rage in the cage or something over there um I fought on that show once and then fought some a couple other spots and then I was on I think the first Front Street card and then uh Yeah, I kind of made that my home fighting the being the outsider.

So eventually I won most of those guys over.

So like, yeah, is that when you, uh , when you were with Front Street, is that when you got the opportunity for Bellator eventually that was the next big Bellator actually was coming to Boise.

So since they were coming to Boise, they were looking for the local regional guys, and I was one of them thankfully, and, uh.

That was a rough fight actually.

I think that was my 4th, 4th fight or so, and I was fighting a black belt at 1:45 and I'm like because I never cut weight.

I'm bigger now than I was then and I'm not that big so like so uh.

Yeah, I was fighting this.

I just remember this giant dude, and he, like, I remember he kneed me one time in like the 2nd round or something, and it cut me in three places.

Oh, yeah, just a big old knee.

OK, cool.

That was like your first big show, a bigger fight, would you say?

Yeah, yeah, a bigger fight, bigger fight.

It was still pretty much the same crowd, uh, for the most part.

Was it in the same arena, same arena and everything, I think it was called, uh, CenturyLink back then, um.

Yeah, that, that was my first like big, big opportunity to one.

how many times did you fight with Bellator?

Twice, twice.

OK, RIP.

How, how different was it back then, like in 2015, you said you, you fought this black belt who's a monster.

You're a tiny guy, so obviously there's not like a lot of film on him.

You're not studying your opponents as much as when you're like deep in the UFC or Bellator.

How, what was the prep how's the preparation different when you Don't know much about a guy that you're stepping in there with.

Uh, I try to keep it the same.

I don't really get too acquainted with him.

It's a lot harder now because like if you watch him in the UFC, like you just happen to watch the cars, then you get more acquainted.

But like, uh, even when I'm doing my film study stuff, which I'm trying to be better about now, like, uh, I, I just watch a little bit, like a couple of minutes of the fight.

I'm like, OK, they operate with this speed, about this range .

That's where they're comfy.

Cool, I got enough.

So like back then, like when I fought that black belt, uh.

All he had was videos of him knocking people out and then winning some jiu-jitsu tournaments.

I was like, oh God, only highlights, yeah, yeah.

I was like, Oh no, it's gonna be rough.

There've been a few fights like that where I'm still thinking about it makes my hands sweat.

Like I've had a few that just really, it's like high anxiety.

Yeah.

Did you like fighting for Beltor?

Uh, it was OK.

I mean, it's, it felt like just like any other regional show for the most part, yeah, it's not like it's far from the well-oiled machine that the UFC is.

So like there's nobody really that competes with that, um, say the next top tier that, that I've been on anyways is like.

Rising's pretty was was pretty smooth.

Like they know, OK, it's about this time you're gonna be doing this, yada yada.

They kind of line things up properly.

You're warming up behind like a small curtain and for the Bellator fights.

So I was like this.

So I imagine it was different as it went on because that was still kind of early for Bellator as well, but Yeah, I prefer the well-oiled machine.

Yeah, definitely, um, did you get a chance to ever talk to Scott Coker?

No, I never did.

No, I talked to Rich Chow, I believe, Chow or Cho something, uh, talked to him a couple of times.

He was like the matchmaker.

He was like the guy just under, just under him, yeah.

Uh, Scott Cooker is, uh, starting his, a new promotion.

Is that something you might be interested in?

I'm interested in wherever I can get a fight and get paid.

So, like, so whatever it is, uh, I'm down for it all.

I've already, I've accepted a couple, well, not even accepted.

I don't know if I was really offered.

I tried to get my name thrown in the mix for a couple PFL fights, uh, in the last few weeks, then I got sick.

So thankfully those fell through, but whatever.

Um, how do you feel about the merger?

Uh, I'm curious.

Um , I feel like it could be good.

Yeah, it could, could be good.

I feel like every other time we see that, like they just end up failing.

This is it, so I feel like this is different though .

Just different.

It feels a little bit different just coming off the success of the Netflix card, the Ronda Rousey fight, and then right away they're like there's questions.

John Martin taking over as CEO at PFL and now they're together.

So I think it's, I mean, it's, it's a positive for the sport obviously.

I think so 100%.

So and I think if we can get just more eyes on the sport, then it's just gonna help everybody grow and everybody gets paid a little more.

So yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm just like, like you said, so curious, like, you know, are they gonna So they're gonna have boxing and MMA.

Is it not gonna be MVP MMA anymore?

It's just PFL now.

Like, are, you know, are they gonna host a fight, like an MMA fight and a boxing fight on one night?

They just did a boxing one a couple of weeks ago, didn't they?

Or yeah, they, they had one this past weekend, and then, um, Amanda Serrano's fighting on the 21st.

Would you consider doing boxing?

I'm down for some boxing too.

I'm down for it all dude.

I just like a little.

It keeps me sane boxing.

Yeah, it keeps me sane.

Uh, OK , so you fought for Bellator and then was the next big one, the contender series shot?

I want to say that was the next big one.

I think I was on a couple more front street.

Um, I was bouncing around a little bit, and then, yeah, contender series came along, and I was like on the 2nd season of that, so that was in, yeah, that was that's what I mean, veteran, yeah, yeah, and that, that was when it was in the tough warehouse actually.

They used to have the fights in there and it was we thought the apex was quiet.

That place was quiet.

That was super, yeah, that was super intimate.

No walkout songs.

I was nervous as shit for that one.

Speaking of contender, today's the, the first, uh, day.

Of the new season, yeah, yeah, looking forward to 10 year anniversary right now, I know, yeah, um, how was, what was that like?

Like you said it was, it was scary, but you could hear a pin drop.

But what was it like fighting in like silence like that?

Uh, it was nuts.

It was, it was crazy.

Uh, and I remember the dude I was fighting was this 6 ft 135er who somehow still had muscle on him.

I'm like, bro, what are you doing?

He's like, are they like this everywhere?

I dude, I was, that was a, I remember looking at, looking at him across the cage.

I was like, Oh my God, dude, here we go again.

Uh, but, uh, and that, that was a, that was a sick fight actually.

It was fun.

Like I, I don't think I was in the best, uh, headspace for that one, and I think that showed as the fight went.

Did you ever watch that one?

I don't think I watched it honestly.

Good fight.

Um, I kind of like Domingo Parte was the guy I fought, and he's very good.

Another high-level jiu-jitsu guy.

I was only a blue belt at the time, and, uh, not a very good one.

So like I was like, oh, here we go.

He's a good jiu-jitsu guy, and, and good striking, and, uh.

Yeah, it started good.

Um, I heard him a couple of times, 3 or 4 times in the first round, um, after he was pressuring me and I was just kind of almost Hail Mary left hook that turned the tide and then, uh, I was beaten up, beating him up for that round and then.

I landed my first head kick I ever threw in a fight in that fight against a 6-foot dude , and I was like, bro, and then, uh, second round starts and I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it again, and I popped the head kick up and he caught it, took me down and jumped on my back and choked me up.

Yeah, that was, so that was the first head kick you ever threw in a, in a fight or in a pro fight in a, in a pro fight.

I, I, I, I'd thrown him like train.

I didn't even throw him an amateur, honestly.

So first fight, uh, was that part of the plan or was it just instinct?

Like it was, it was something that I played.

For maybe a couple of weeks before was like because he was southpaw so I chopped the inside lead leg and then go high on the next one and uh I remember the toes just slapped him and uh and uh watching the video Dana goes oh hey yeah let's yeah yeah what was it like fighting in front of Dana the first time um I don't remember thinking too much about that.

Uh, I was kind of, I was, I was kind of zeroed in on the fight and my, my own issues that I had going into it and, uh, and yeah, I think I just at that point I remember specifically.

I was like in the middle of trying to figure out what I was gonna do like if this was gonna be a career or whatever and uh and I just had some external stuff like my coach was bugging me like all kinds of stuff was just like there was just a lot going on and I remember thinking before I got in the fight I was like I kind of hope I lose this so I have a reason to kind of reset and get rid of this coach and maybe start working with somebody different and I think that kind of messed with me in the fight.

Was that before syndicate?

Were you in Vegas already?

I wasn't in Vegas yet.

That would, that would have been the beginning of 2018, so a year later I was in Vegas.

Um, do you feel like that the silence kind of affected you?

Like you said you weren't maybe 100%.

I think, I think it, it's always gonna, I, I like, I like some noise.

I like a little, I like something to get rowdy too, you know what I mean, and, and, uh.

Yeah, that I don't think that that played a role.

Like we still fight at the end of the day.

I just prefer some more noise.

I don't, I don't think that played a role in, in how it went.

That was a question that I had yesterday because we went to the unveiling of the, the new meta Apex, and it's big, you know, they, it's gonna hold like 1100 people.

And so I was like curious.

I was asking some of the fighters that fought in contender, you know, you know, in the earlier seasons, like, do you think that it's gonna be different for these fighters than what you experienced because you guys were in, you know , in silence.

In a very much smaller facility and now these people, they're selling tickets to the contender series now, you know, so you're not really fighting like you kind of like that was like a piece of contender and now you're now it's kind of like a regular it's almost like like a glorified regional one that's exactly, yeah, exactly what it is, yeah , I was curious.

Yeah, I don't know.

I'd be curious to see how people, I think it'll be fine like regardless I mean at the end of the day you're fighting, right?

Yeah, yeah, Apex started during COVID, I think it was the first fight actually.

Uh, when Apex started and, uh, it was really oddly quiet then too.

It felt just like the contenders.

Yeah, you did fight at the at the uh COVID, uh, era as well, huh, um, I wanna just, uh, go back to you said that your mindset in that contender fight, and you don't, if you don't wanna get into specifics, uh, whatever you feel comfortable talking about, and then did you, did that it precipitated a change in camps after that, a change in coaches?

What like what was going on, whatever you feel comfortable sharing?

So like, um, I think.

Because it was such a big opportunity, my, my old coach was kind of, uh, like, OK, cool, we got something here, like, and it was kind of just on me and just constantly like he would call me and talk to me for a couple of hours and stuff, which I appreciated because it means he cared about it, but like I if I'm like done and not training and I'm home, I want my alone time.

Like I like, I like chilling and being alone, and a lot of that was gone, and, uh, I felt it just felt like I was kind of carrying the weight of like the coach relationship and, uh, I think that that was the biggest primary thing I think.

And then, uh, But I had, it was such a good fight that I was like, oh maybe that's not the issue.

Maybe it was kind of just my thing, so I can end up staying with the coach for like another year or so, um, when you, so you are on the contender series, you, you obviously it didn't go your way.

Did that, did that affect you?

Were you like, did that kind of make you lose sight of the big stage, or were you like, OK, we just got to pivot, we're still going?

Uh, not necessarily.

The big stage was never really, it wasn't.

Super established as a goal.

I just, I just wanted to do whatever I could and make some money doing what I love, and that, that's, I'm still in that same boat essentially, uh, but, um, it was a bit like I think that that was my second loss ever and I was like, oh man, I hate losing, and it, I don't know, kind of pulled me back for a little bit and then.

Uh, I just went right back to training and then got a fight as soon as I could, yeah, and then you got the call, right, shortly after that.

Uh, I fought in Bellator one more time, um.

That was my first time going to decision, I believe, in that fight and, uh.

And it was, it that that fight was weird because it was a kind of a fight I was supposed to win on paper technically I think he had a like an even record or something and I had a pretty winning record coming off contender so it's like cool, you're supposed to win this here you go, which I think almost stressed me out more, yeah, yeah, I'm like, OK, cool.

So it's like this weird added pressure, but, uh, went out, I had a good performance in Bellator, and then.

Got signed short notice to fight Song in China.

Song Yong.

Wow, that's a tough short notice fight in China.

Yeah, I remember watching highlights of him too, and it was that same thing.

I was like, bro, he's just knocking everybody out like great.

So and again, like, like for that one, I think my mindset going into that, and I think this goes to show the importance of like.

Structuring our, our mindset for fights and not kind of just allowing whatever's happening to try to ride the wave.

Sometimes we can't ride the wave.

Sometimes we gotta have like a stricter structure to follow so we can lock in, like a lock-in process is kind of what I've been subconsciously calling it, um, but, uh, yeah, my whole goal for that fight was, OK, cool, don't get knocked out.

Let's come, I'm gonna throw down, but I'm not gonna get knocked out, I'll tell you that much.

I did hit hard.

When you get that short notice call from the UFC, is there ever with, with that specifically, there's never any hesitation.

It doesn't matter who the opponent is.

Is it just like, does any thought go into that?

Uh, no, not, not really.

No, but I'm like, I'm the same pretty much for all the fights, like, yeah, let's go for sure.

Yeah, let's go.

Yeah, let's go, which I.

I mean it's something I need to be better about because I, I fought, I, I fought a lot of the, a lot of the best up and coming dudes for a long time.

So that's the, the fighter you are.

Sometimes you need to like fighters need to be safe from themselves often, right?

But at the end of the day it's still us and the opportunities, they come in, in weird ways.

And some, some of me is like, OK, whatever happens, and this happened again when I got re-signed, whatever happens, at least I'm in.

Then I can figure out the next move.

But it, it shouldn't be about that because that fight in front of us is the most important one we're ever gonna have.

Absolutely.

Um, when you, when you, um, you know, start, got into the, into the UFC, how long till you moved to Vegas and started training at Syndicate?

2 months, 3 months, I think something like that, yeah, so you were in Idaho when you got signed, yeah, yeah, yeah, I moved out of Oregon, lived in Nampa, so Nampa is like 45 minutes from my hometown, 15 minutes from Boise, so I was kind of in the close to a middle spot, lived in Nampa, worked in Oregon, drove to Boise to train, drove back to Nampa.

So that was my, that was my day every day.

I did this weird triangle and I was.

I think we all got to go through though.

It's part of the process.

What were you doing as a job?

You said you were working.

I was working, um, at that time I was a, I was a cell phone salesman, yeah, sales rep for Verizon.

OK, awesome.

Um, so you were like, obviously it's all small town, so you were like the hometown hero because has anybody else in the got in the UFC over there?

Ah, no, no, right?

Wow, that's awesome.

Not even really in Idaho there was, uh, Scott Jorgensen.

Um, he was kind of WECEC guy.

Then when they merged, came into the UFC, um.

And then I think I was the next one.

Wow.

And this all kind of happened pretty fast once you like decided to dedicate your, your life to it , right?

Yeah, I, I, I think I'd quit jobs like 2 or 3 times so that I could go train and then like the fight page just doesn't put you off for very long.

So it's like, all right, I'm back to work and I'll just, we're back to the grind again, you know what I mean?

What were you doing?

Do you remember what you were doing when you got the first call?

Uh, I was think I was driving.

Home from the gym is what it was and, uh, and I think I was maybe 5 minutes from the house and my manager called me.

I was like, what's up, dude?

And he's like, You got your passport?

and I was like, Oh, I just got it.

Yeah.

And he's like, Cool, you're gonna go to China.

And I was like, Why is this Lance?

No, this was, this was was Jason at the time.

Yeah , yeah.

Lance kind of took over once I got to Vegas because I just saw him more, so he took over my personal side for the most part, but still aridium banner, um.

And yeah, and I remember, uh, I hung up the phone and just gripped my steering wheels like white knuckling.

I was like, oh my God, punching the steering wheels.

That, that was a, yeah, that's a crazy feeling.

Who's the first person you called?

Uh, my dad.

It was my dad.

And then was it Sheno?

Might have been Chino.

They're my dad.

They're my coach, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Sheno first.

Well, because, so she's so much in the world, she's gonna understand how, how, yeah, yeah, it feels a little bit more first everybody else gonna, they're gonna be excited for me.

It's a great opportunity, but like she's in it.

She knows what it means.

She knows like she knows the, the literal blood, sweat, and tears that it costs.

So absolutely, yeah, um, and you made your, so you made your UC debut in 2022, yeah, you, you wanna know, uh, yeah, my, my return.

Which one was that?

Oh sorry, 2018, yeah, yeah, debuted 2018, yeah, yeah, OK.

And you went on a pretty good, you know, you had a, you had a pretty good for, you know, first good career in the first, yeah, I was back and forth a little bit like a, like a, I almost went the same as my second stint in really as far as, uh, as far as outcomes.

I thought like.

For whatever reason, everybody gets tougher in the UFC, so I get we go to more decisions, but, uh, I think, uh, some of the tactics change as well because now it's, it's our livelihood we're fighting for.

It's not, it's no longer the side gig.

I mean, when it's a side gig, it can be kind of a fun thing because cool, you get an extra, an extra 1200 bucks from a fight.

Like, cool, like that's extra money because I'm working already.

When, when you quit your jobs and everything, and now that's your only source of income, it's a weird.

I think it's, it, it can change the way you approach some of the fights because they are better, so you're trying to make less mistakes.

But since you're making less mistakes, you're doing less going forward some for me personally, this is my experience anyways, and, uh, I think it kind of boxed me in a little bit.

That was what I wanted to ask you, like, do you feel, because I feel like we, we may have talked about this a little bit, sometimes you almost feel like you lose the dog.

Like you, you still have that dog, but you don't fight like that dog because you're worried.

I, I wouldn't say worried.

It's because I'm being, uh, I'm trying like overly methodical, maybe trying to make sure I'm doing the right things.

I'm not trying to get greedy, technical, too, yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's funny too that we say too technical because I think there was a, I read something from Jordan Burroughs years ago that he was saying he had his best performances when he was scared and thought he was.

I thought the other guy was gonna be better than him and, and he went out there and shined and then, uh, as he got better and became a better wrestler, like his performance he was still winning, but his performances went down and as his confidence went up in his abilities.

So like I think like that kind of resonated with me a little bit because I, I did get better at jiu-jitsu.

I, my striking did get better.

I understood fighting better.

But like me understanding more now I understand maybe the risk, the consequences of things, and I, I mitigate those, whereas I'm not as much of a madman as I used to be where I'm only going forward and stuff, so it's this weird balance we play, yeah, absolutely, um, and then you, you, so at this point you're training with John Wood, right?

Uh, no, I wasn't training with John Wood until Um, that was after the Chris Gutierrez fight.

OK, OK.

Would you say that has been like the like where you evolved so much once you started as technically and skill wise and like a fight approach?

Yeah , I think so.

I've learned a lot training a syndicate over the last like 67 years.

Like I think it's really helped me become a better martial artist.

Uh, I'm working on the expression of that in the cage now, so.

Um, you know, obviously things didn't go your way the first stint in the, in the UFC.

You got cut in 2022.

Um, what was that like, you know, because you didn't get, you got cut, and most people just will say, OK, and they'll throw in the towel and give up, but you went on like a five fight tear after that and got back.

So what was going through your mind, your mental, to go through that and to go back and do that?

It's, it's hard to say.

I remember just being a little disheartened at first, but of course, as you should be, it's like, like losing a fight.

You're losing your job, essentially got fired and especially from something that you thought you were good at.

So it's like it's kind of weird to find that balance again.

But for me I just kind of doubled down on like I was in there competing with these guys.

I think I beat a lot of these guys.

It just, I just didn't get the nod from the, the judges, which is still the story, which is it.

I'll get into that, but, uh.

Yeah, like, um, it just, I, I took it as a chance to really go like I hadn't really shown much jiu-jitsu in my UFC career at that point, and I was like, cool, well, I, I've gotten way better.

Let's go, let's go sharpen the tools in some fights that don't mean as much for my livelihood.

As far as monetarily, how many times did you fight because I went, I was like back to back, right?

It took me a while to get a fight at first.

Um, I was trying to, I, I tried to fight like the week after I got released, but nobody was accepting fights, um, and then, yeah, yeah, I, I, I think I had like Three offers in the first month that all fell through and then another 2 that fell through so I didn't fight for a little bit.

Once I finally did, cool, it was off to the races.

We're just going.

Did it ever cross your mind like, OK, I'm done.

Like when you, when you got cut, when that first cut happened, was it like, or was it like, OK, now we're gonna just pivot, another pivot?

Yeah, pretty much, yeah, yeah, yeah, in, in, in my mind like, uh, like I always draw a lot of parallels for fighting in life in general, so.

The fight of life I'm just physically doing and like physically I didn't didn't match up for my fighting career in the UFC at the time.

I'm gonna keep fighting and keep figuring out, keep my fight going, which is actually fighting.

So I just kept doing that and kept trying to refine.

Was it like, was, did you know that the possibility of getting back in was, was, you know, there for you?

Like, did your managers tell you like we can get you back in if you, you know, go do this, this and this?

Yeah, but at the same time I also know how hard it is and like, and every time we do, every time somebody is cut, they're fighting against these up and comers that that's the only thing that they've been thinking about for a long time and they're gunning every time and like.

So it, it's, it's hard but not impossible is how I look at it.

No, it's probably a tough thing to think about, but like, did you, when you got released, were you expecting it?

Like how did, what was going through your head?

You lost that fight, I think it was to Miles Johns, and then like what, what were you expecting the call?

Like how, what was going through your head?

Um, I think that was a couple months after that fight that I got, that I finally got released, uh, and I was expecting it like the whole time just because, just because the way things had, had played out, but, uh.

Um, so I was kind of hanging out in limbo for a bit and so be it, yeah, you know what I mean, yeah, for sure, um , what, so, uh, when did, did it build the confidence, you know, going into all, going to the fights you were going into, you know, during when you were off out of the UFC and getting all these wins, like, did your confidence grow a lot?

When it was time to come back, no, not necessarily.

I think, uh, uh, you know what's weird when, uh, the times I've been more confident I've usually lost.

I don't know what that is, but the times where I'm like, oh shit, oh shit, I've had some of my best performances, that fear will carry you.

Yeah, so I think, I don't know, again, I'm working on the balance that I started working with a sports psych after this last cut, and then now.

Or like again refining the lock-in process.

OK.

Do you, how was that going?

Like, talk to me about that a bit.

It's good.

It's, it's something that like, uh, I'd worked with the sports like in the past that like kind of just gave me some little cue points and like just some things.

I was like, oh, I kind of do this already, so I'll, I'm good.

So I stopped working with them and then, uh, and yeah, I just felt like.

I still feel like I have these in all my fights.

I have like glimpses of greatness like you can see what I'm doing.

Like there's always something that stands out for me and then there, but there's not enough of it.

So like trying to find a way to get that block of whatever it is.

Out of the way so it doesn't just come in spurts.

It's there the whole time .

I mean, um, how long have you been working with them and like is it something you're practicing every day or yeah, there's like we just restructured the way my brain was working outside of camp sometimes, um, and you noticing a difference?

I think so, but I've been sick last like 3 weeks.

I got, I, I got, I got sick for a week, took training off because it's not my first time.

Being sick and I know that if I train it's only gonna get worse so I took the week off and then hit it super hard the next week, which I know better and then I got sick again at the end of the week and I got sick even worse and so I'm like, so now I've been dealing with that for like a week and a half.

So, uh, again I'm just trying to chill for a little bit, but, uh, um.

Yeah, we shout out Dylan with Mindlock.

We've uh.

Just been working on a few things to like we call it fine tuning right we're trying to get the right frequency of of uh Like my brain patterns essentially so that I can really start showing the best parts of me more often.

Do you guys just like talk to each other, or like how does he kind of find this in, in you?

Like how does he study your brain or in a, yeah, so like we, uh, we, uh, we sit there, we kind of just talk about the processes I felt.

We've done some film study too just to watch like those glimpses come out and then figure out, OK, what switched here, what was my approach in this round compared to that round, like just little things like that.

And then, uh, and then it's kind of gave me some.

Ways that I can establish some more short term goals and not only be thinking long term so that those short term goals really support the long term goals.

Does that make sense?

So there's a lot of that and uh started journaling some of my sessions which was hard for me because When I was first , when I first started trying to do that, I was only like, cool, we did this today and we did this.

I was going through like a checklist instead of like I so I was talking to him about it and he's like, OK, well how'd you feel doing that stuff?

And I was like, fucking, I don't know.

He's like, he's like, that's what we're trying to figure out.

He's like, that's what, that's what it's for.

And I was like.

Oh, he goes, you don't express yourself very good, do you?

And I was like, I guess not.

I cry.

You mentioned you kind of like thrive on the fear.

Is he like finding ways for you to like kind of channel that fear in you to maybe help you?

Well, channeling what it is that, that, that, that is like.

The fear is bringing out not so much like more ways to be afraid, you know what I mean, but like, but like what whatever's in there when it's there, like why is that there?

Let's find a way to bring that out with like a , I'm calling it a lock-in process just works for my brain.

So, so this is what you're doing to help, you know, your mental in your training and in your fighting, but I, I do wanna know what do you do, what, because I know, you know, the, the being cut, you know, when that happened and then especially, you know, after the last time.

That was a tough loss.

It was very controversial, definitely a robbery, you know, yeah, yeah, it's, that's that's hard to come, you know, to get over, and you made a video on, you made a video on YouTube, you know, kind of talking about it very, very raw and personal video kind of talking about your feelings, so yeah.

Yeah, I'm asking like what, what do you do for the mental on that side of things, you know, like that, that emotional part and like how do you just keep coming back and showing up every day?

Well, just accepting it for what it is.

I mean, at, at for anybody, I think there's always some points in life that are really gonna try to kick you and hurt you, especially when you're already down.

So like, cool, we, we accept it.

We figure out why, why that even happened, and then we find a way to grow from that.

Like for me, martial arts has always been about the growth, uh, personal and physical, you know what I mean, so.

Yeah, I just kind of take it like that and then, and then accept it and try to understand it and then build on it.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you're, you're fighting, obviously you're fighting in the UFC, so you were fighting in the UC.

It's the toughest level, highest level .

You had some, you know, some crazy bangers.

I mean, Raul Roses was an insane fight.

Also, I feel like that was a robbery.

Like you, you know, he didn't fight you.

He just did jiu-jitsu.

But which ones are some of your favorites, um.

My favorite, I really, I really enjoyed the last one a lot.

Um, I enjoyed the raw raw roll sauce one a lot just because I went to Mexico City and like acclimated for a bit.

I went to Australia for the last one.

I've got to see the whole world doing this stuff, dude.

So like, I mean, at the same time that, yeah, I want more.

I, how can I ask for more, dude?

I'm from a town of 10,000 people and I get to go see these crazy parts of the world.

Never thought I'd go see the Eiffel Tower in Paris.

Never thought I'd go to Japan.

Like I'm getting used to.

I know.

I just did too, yeah, like, like it, it, it's super sick and I'm super grateful for, for everything, and, and, um, I try not to live on the, on the path of regrets.

It's just being better the next time, yeah, and honestly, like, you know, obviously losses suck, but All of your fights, even the losses, are those, those bangers, you know, like you're the fights that you're kind of happy to have on your resume, right?

Like you're not out there getting starts by like, yeah, yeah, thankfully I did get leg kicked the shit out of me from Chris Gutierrez.

That was, that was a brutal one.

I'm not the only one though.

Yeah, no, he's damn good at those kicks, dude.

Um, yeah, but.

I know it, it, and so I do take some confidence in the fact that like these are only by this much margin that that I'm really losing the fights and uh regardless how I feel like optically the judges didn't agree so what can I do to improve the optics and get them on my side, right?

I focused on the controllables instead of the stuff I can't control, right?

And what do your coaches say about, you know, like just falling up short like what, like what is their, you know, input on, you know, maybe fixing things or whatever.

Uh, it's nothing technical.

So, like, like, it's, so I was talking with Coach Wood about it, especially after the last one.

He's like, he's like, dude, like you've done what most people haven't done.

That's get to the UFC.

You've also done what most people haven't done who get there is to get back because you've had a successful career.

I know on paper like things don't always look like that, but like, look what you've done, look what you've seen.

Look how you've been.

He goes, and, and you are, and you have improved as a martial artist over the time.

So like.

I know what more can we ask for?

I just want some goddamn wins, dude.

That's it.

But like, uh, but, uh, he, he says the same thing.

It's, it's, it's some fine tuning we gotta do, and I'm down for the fine tuning.

One thing I haven't done is fine tune.

I just, I, I'm on the, I'm on the side of like.

If there's a wall and all I got is a spoon.

I'm gonna figure out a way to get through that wall, digging some out.

I use the wrong end or something, you know what I mean?

He is right, and I hope you look at your career and are proud of it, honestly, yeah, for the most part, yeah, yeah.

I'm not done yet, so I'll be, I'll be more proud later.

That was my next question, and I'm not saying you're old, but you know, there, um, how do you feel, you know, you're 35.

Like how do you still, I mean, you, you train and move well, like still, so that's what I'm asking.

I'm still in there competing with like the best up and coming young guys, so like.

Uh , we get to train with all kinds of those guys being a syndicate.

Like these guys come through on a regular basis, and, uh, and I know it's, it's the gym, so we don't like, we don't take, we take that with a grain of salt when we do get the better of some of this stuff.

But we like, as long as I'm improving on my decision making and my own abilities in those moments, I'm on the right path, so.

Until, until the wheels fall off, I'm going, yeah, um , do you feel like, like maybe just this, this day and age or this era that we're in, we're seeing fighters be able to have a, a later career like you see it now, you know, like Justin Gitche's 37, just won the title with maybe his best performance.

Vol Volk is like 38, yeah, yeah, yeah, and Volk's still doing his damn thing too, like looking good.

Like he doesn't look like he's slowing down at all.

Yeah, we're the times are way different than what they used to be, um.

I don't think like mid-thirties is, is like it's not that old like it used to be.

Like people say your career is over almost and I don't no, no, no, like we eat better, we train better, we're smarter like with the approach.

I don't wanna say smarter like brain wise, but like approach wise I feel like, I feel like we've got some of that stuff refined so.

Yeah, um, I feel like I keep telling Wood I got like another decade, dude, so be ready.

Well, we just saw Darren Elkins, I think he's 42.

He just had his last fight.

So you want, you wanna fight till, till the wheels fall off into your 40s.

Yeah, uh-huh.

We got Davy Grant at the gym who's like, uh, one of my main training partners, and he's a, he's incredible.

Yeah, as soon as he starts moving, he's like, and with his new hairline, he's like, he's like.

I'm like, oh bro, what are you, 26?

Yeah, yeah, him and John, he looks, he loves it too.

I'm just kidding.

I didn't say that.

How is training with Davy?

I, I hear that he's like the hardest hitter in the gym.

Yeah, bro, pound for pound.

I think he's the hardest puncher on the mats, really, and you don't like, you don't look like it, you know.

No, no, no, he's got like cinder blocks for hands or something.

It's not even trying to hit hard and it hits you.

You're just like, oh dude.

He's like, I'm sorry.

He's so awesome.

Um, speaking of, obviously your body feels good, but do you, do you ever like ever have any notice anything like brain wise like just from, you know, the years of taking headshots?

Nothing new.

I've always had a pretty bad memory, so like, like if I'm getting in trouble, I blame.

On the head, I'm, yeah, I get in the head for a living, dude.

I mean, you definitely got the nose.

I got the nose, dude.

I got, I got horns coming in.

I got bad ears, dude.

I was like looking at me.

I'm like, what is this?

Is that a hematoma?

It's just like there.

The meaner I get, the bigger it gets.

Both of them.

I don't know, bro, yeah, literally, yeah, but it's, it's, it's fighting and like this kind of stuff I signed up for.

It's not like I, I knew, it's not like I thought I'd come out unscathed, right.

Yeah, absolutely, and, um, I kind of wanted to, you know, run it back to, you know, your wife, you know, uh, she, she also competes, um, she's you guys, uh, your whole relationship, has she competed as well?

Pretty much, uh, she hurt her knee, um, a few years back that really put a hold on things for like 4 or 5 years, but, uh, she's trained pretty consistently throughout it regardless and like.

I've learned a lot from her too.

Yeah, how is that, um, like I wanna like give people a pers uh, you know, a certain perspective on, you know, a, a couple that trains together, fights together.

What's that like?

Uh, everything's great.

Everything's, it's awesome, dude.

I, I think she gets all of her angst out in the gym or something because at home, uh, we never fight.

We're just chilling.

We're happy to be there, yeah.

So, uh, I don't know.

I just think I'm super lucky.

Like, uh, I think somebody who understands like the life, right, in, in, in both of us, we, we always know like when the other person needs somebody to lean on for a bad training session or a bad fight, whatever it may be, and like we're, we're always there like she's just.

As much part of the team as anybody else .

Yeah, absolutely, um, when she fights and you have to, and you have to corner her, what is that like?

I try to, I try to take like the whole week.

What is it like?

Uh, the whole week's pretty, she handles it pretty good.

Like she, she's, she's, she know, is a, is a vet.

She's been fighting since she was like 15, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's, she's, she's great.

She, she locks in.

She handles things accordingly.

Nothing really gets her off track, off focus.

Um, I think she's, I almost blame me.

I think I, I've like got some of.

We got some of the same performance issues that like our skills don't reflect really what we can do or I mean the performance doesn't reflect what our skills can do, you know what I mean um so I kind of blame me for that so like we're we're working on that still but uh um I'd rather be the person in there fighting and her on the sidelines than her the one fighting.

Um, obviously the walkout and stuff is scary, but when she's in there, do you kind of calm down and you're just like locked in?

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Everything before that's kind of like I feel like I'm fighting.

Like you're gonna throw up, yeah, like, yeah, I'm gonna throw up.

Yeah, it's pretty bad, but, uh, but no, once she's in there, you know, her face like, oh, she's, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm like, oh yeah, we're good, and she's mean too, and thankfully she gets all that meanness out.

It doesn't leave much for me, so I get, I get all the nice stuff.

Um , does she work with the mental coach at all, because you say like she might have maybe, you know, you guys share maybe a similar mental block almost in a sense, and, and when you go and compete, has she thought about doing any mental coaching?

Uh, not really, but like I, since I'm, I'm utilizing, I kind of share with her what I'm doing with it, and she's like kind of either feeds into it or takes something from it for herself too.

So like, uh, yeah, I think it helps, helps both of us, OK.

And how long have you guys been together?

Too long.

No , no, no, no, no, uh, man, I think we're going on 10 years, something like that, um, 20, yeah , 10 years.

Married.

How old married, I don't know, 23.

It's gonna be, it's gonna be 2 this year.

2 years, yeah, I think it's 2.

But they had the funnest wedding.

Oh, so sick.

Uh, we fought on the same card back in Boise.

Yeah, she was the co-main event and I was fighting her teammates, so she was rooting against me.

Oh man.

That's a yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We met at the after party.

We both won and, uh, took a little victory, cheers to victory shot, and then now she can't get rid of me.

Rest is history.

You knew that was the one.

I kind of thought pretty early on.

I was like, I like her.

Um, in your video that you did post, you know, uh, following the last fight, you had talked kind of about being ready to start a family.

Is that kind of what you're feeling like?

Yeah, I think, yeah, I think so.

Yeah, yeah, like, like me and her are a family.

Like we got a couple of pets.

We got a little family, so like, uh, maybe a little, a little minion running around wouldn't be a bad idea.

Do you think you're, you, you, you'll want your kids to fight?

Uh, I want them to train for sure.

I think there's just so much that like.

Uh, and I think everybody's trained as, as some sort of aspect.

I think there's just so much personal growth and development that really make you a better human just in general, um, that you get from training, so, um.

I mean if they don't want to probably not gonna make them, but I think I think they will, yeah, they're gonna want to.

It's in the blood now literally right at the beginning of our talk you said that wrestling saved you.

How, like how so?

Were you just like a bad kid and it kind of got it's just not, it's not that I was necessarily a bad kid.

I was, uh, um, a rebel without a cause, kind of.

I didn't want to follow the rules because I didn't agree with the rules, not because I thought they were bad rules.

I just like, bro, why can you tell me what to do?

You're just a teacher and you don't even wanna be here.

Like it's all over your face and like and you don't, I know this better than you do like half the time like for math stuff I'm like I'm like dude like it's I don't know I just felt like it was a Where there's not a lot to do back home, like it's, I see it all, I see it to this day.

Like, uh, people just go down pretty, pretty not so good paths, and, uh, and I never wanted that for, yeah, small town stuff.

I never, never wanted that for myself, and, and wrestling kind of gave me that like awareness about myself that like what I can do a little more belief in myself and made me want to chase bigger things.

What do you think about the RAF?

Have you been following that, because I think, yeah, yeah, that's dope.

Whatever they're doing, I think they're like mainstreaming, streaming some wrestling stuff in a very good way, and it's appealing to kids and it's like, yeah, more like, not that the UFC isn't, but there's some extracurricular.

Dealers in the UFC that where maybe parents, but for kids I think it's great, right?

Yeah, 100%, 100%.

I think everybody should wrestle growing up too, dude.

Wrestlings to this day like fighting is hard and maybe I'm just more geared for it now, but, uh, I don't, I don't know if mentally I was geared for the, the hardships that go into wrestling, and that really taught me a lot about life, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I always feel like everybody should wrestle.

I, I completely agree.

Did you ever compete at RAF.

Uh, yeah, I don't know if I'm good enough wrestling now.

Like, I'm, I'm so much, I'm so much MMA.

They have all, I've, I mean, there's some influencers.

I'm down for it.

I'll go ankle pick some, yeah , and they're paying well, yeah, yeah, yeah, just for a wrestling match, which is unheard of, unheard of.

So I think it's awesome.

And I'm so curious too, like how they're paying so well.

They just kind of like came out of nowhere.

Their events are nice.

They're paying well.

They have some funding behind them.

Ironstein comes from the VC world, and it's cool.

That they allow, you know, um, UFC fighters and stuff to still go and compete.

Yeah, 100%.

I guess it's just out, just far enough outside the realm of MMA fights that the contract doesn't get in the way of that.

So that, that's awesome.

I'm down for it, although Armand's had a couple, there's been some tussles where, you know, Dane is sitting there like, like, bro, what are you doing outside of your fight?

Armand, at least he finally got, uh, scheduled.

Oh yeah, yeah, that's right.

Yeah, that's right.

That's a great fight.

That's a great fight, and I've heard Ruvie like.

I've heard through the grapevine that uh Rufie's counter wrestling is way better than what we've seen from the BSD thing because he's been training with Volk and those well there's, well, even prior to that there was some maybe some stuff behind the scenes going on for him for that one but uh.

But yeah, so I'm expecting some fireworks for that one.

It's a 6 scrap.

Raf is actually coming to Vegas, but it is the day of Emily's wedding.

I know.

So yeah, and it's and it's Armand and Dylan Dennis they announced as the oh really?

Oh really?

I was sick.

Hell yeah, yeah, I think it's cool.

I think, I think it's cool for sure.

I wanna actually, I was thinking about getting maybe the wrestling coaches in here to talk a little bit about some 100%, yeah, I remember because, yeah, we wanna start like highlighting raff a little bit more, you know, it's, it's cool.

It's a cool new thing that they're doing.

Yeah, 100%.

I think that there's.

It's got some real potential.

Yeah.

What about BJJ UFC BJJ?

How would you, would you down for that too?

I'm down for it all day.

Yeah, I know, I know my knees, and I do a lot for my age is my knees.

Yeah, and that's like the thing in high level jiu-jitsu is the leg locks, right?

Yeah, now, yeah, yeah, but like, uh, um.

Even so, like, there's good enough people at the gym.

We got the Tackett brothers coming through syndicate and Cody Steele and, uh, Mikey Musumeci train over there, which I get a lot of private work with him.

I could, I could get adequate enough to keep my legs safe.

I think you should do it .

I'm down for it.

I don't see why not if you can't reveal, you just mentioned Mikey Musumeci.

Are you training him in MMA because he's, yeah, how's that going?

Uh, good.

He's learns fast.

He's got a, he's got a very, uh, um, he's so good at jiu-jitsu that everything's kind of black or white for him, and, uh, there's so much of fighting that's in the gray that like.

He's kind of asking black or white questions when I'm like, well, it's yes and no.

He's like, what the hell do you mean?

I'm like, I like, let's play.

We'll see.

Does he hit hard?

Uh, he's got, he's, he might be the strongest person I've ever grappled with.

Well, I was, can you size size is, is irrelevant.

He's so strong.

He's ridiculously strong.

I've never felt anything like that.

Can you put into perspective, like, actually, I don't know if other sports like NBA terms, like how good he is at jiu-jitsu.

Bro, if I watched other sports, I could.

No, no, uh, dude, he's, he's like, uh, remember when Anderson Silva was unbeatable and like they're like he's doing something way different.

Mikey's got some of that and, and he's light years ahead of the game and that's not just with the legs with and it's the brain too, right?

It's, it's the mind like he's, he's very smart.

He's something special slowly, right?

He's something super special.

Um, have you, so you've been training with him, Is it more just like pad work and you guys are just kind of like starting to learn the understandings of MMA, or are you guys done any type of like actual sport?

Like, has he taken a shot to the face yet?

Um, he did some sparring, but, uh, I missed it.

I wasn't there.

He sparred with somebody else, but I've done some like, uh, technical like drill sparring with him just to get him to understand range and like, uh, and some of the techniques that do fit in and where he can fit in, like stuff like that.

Um, a lot of it's real cerebral with Mikey.

So, uh, we're touching on a lot of that and trying to refine some of the reflexes, uh, think about getting him ready for some fights.

OK, is this like real fights?

or like influencer fights, uh, maybe both.

OK, wow, that is so cool and crazy.

Yeah, right.

Obviously we've talked in, in length about how you're, you, you still wanna fight, but how much do you enjoy the coaching aspect of being in there and like teaching the younger guys some stuff, yeah, because you're the army coaches, yeah, yeah, I'll be, yeah, you'll be up, and, uh, uh, it helps, it, I think it's only helped me get better too, like, uh, nobody really understands things the same exact way, so like.

I've got to find 5 different ways to understand the one thing that I only understand my way, and then now I understand it a little bit broader and it connects to a few more different things.

So like my own foundational skill set's getting better just because I'm having to regurgitate the information I know in a different way to these guys so that they can learn it.

It's, it's weird to me how much like.

I do that I don't even think about that does require some thought process and then when you're teaching it, you're like, oh this is, yeah, I'm like, well, I'm like, why aren't you guys doing this?

or, well, you didn't say it and I'm like, OK, well I guess I already knew that and the team is pretty, pretty large.

Like there's a lot of, a lot of amateur on the mat, you know, over the course of like the last like two years, the Emmy's on the mat, like it's gone from like a 10 person class to like I think we had, we had.

Like 40 something on the mat a while back, yeah, we got a lot of Emmy's in there and it's like legit, you know, almost like pros, you know, like you guys are running practice, yeah, yeah, yeah, we, we, we keep you got similar similar structure, yeah, exactly, exactly, and like some of those guys like I got a few under my wing that I've got like really high hopes for and I think they do something great, yeah, yeah, that's awesome, and you're going and cornering them and everything, yeah.

Doing it all at getting close to them, like, oh yeah, yeah, they're like just, just as much teammates.

I train with them too.

Like, like if I need an extra session because their stuff's late at night, I jump in with them.

Yeah, you got some, uh, some girls on the team that are like some dogs, yeah, yeah, 100%.

Girls are scary.

Girls scrap, scrap, you know what I mean.

So like when it's sparring day we gotta like kind of watch them because they'll go off the rails.

Oh man, I know.

Is Destiny ever gone off the rails at the gym?

Yeah, I mean, once, twice.

No, no, she's pretty jealous.

I know I watched, uh, when I watch the amateur practice and I see the young girls sparring and stuff, I'm just like takes you back, you know, I'm like I remember those days because you're right, like you just, when you're like the girls, you just, you go, you go at it, you know, especially when you're younger, like younger and like the, the fight IQ in a sense.

It's just, uh, you know, scrapping.

You're not really thinking you're fighting.

You're not thinking.

Yeah, it's super cool to see the growth from everybody though.

Yeah, definitely, um, being a syndicate, uh, you know, what's, what's some of the, you know, best practices or, you know, best, best work you're getting over there because like you said, you're training with Marab, Cody Still, uh, Andrew Tackett, Stevie Grant, yeah, every day is something, something new and great, you know what I mean, so like.

And honored to be able to just train with the people that are there consistently and the people that do come through like bro, there's so many people.

There's this new kid, a kid on tough, Muhammad Ali, that's been.

I haven't seen him, but I keep hearing people say his name, dude.

That kid's the truth.

He's very good.

He's very, very good, that's so crazy.

You don't like, you know, he's one of those guys you don't look at, you know, he's very good, and, uh.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's so cool to be able to just to get into work with even these new kids that are coming up that are like, bro, they're younger than me when I started and I'm like, how are you so damn good it's crazy.

Um, OK, let's talk, uh, UFC fights.

Um, we've got UFC sack going down.

Do you wanna step back and talk about Quillan's performance real quick?

Sure, yeah, yeah.

What did you, what did you think of that performance?

I mean, I feel like that was in there like against a guy like Gamrock Gamrock.

What, what was your prediction like going in, honestly, I was kind of picking Gamrod just because like I felt like it was just such a huge step up and, uh, and the grappling Gamrod's something that like the wrestling is insane.

So yeah, and, uh , I love Quillan, but yeah, me too.

I'm a dude.

Quillan's Quillan's sick.

We both fought on the, on the Perth car a while back, uh, back in May.

I didn't even know when it was where he had the head kick, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, he had the head kick before that and then, uh, I can't remember who he fought.

I was too depressed.

Uh, oh, isn't it, yeah, I think it was, it was Dar, yeah, yeah, uh, Quillan's Quillan's, he's he's the truth.

That was unreal.

Yeah, that was, that was the fight that showed that he is the truth.

He's something different.

To be able to do that to somebody like Gamra when there's not very many people that have, but not, not even in that way like he's cool and something different that was, uh, so impressive that like quiet confidence about him too where he's not, it's not like, uh, cocky, it's just like, yeah, it's just, yeah, I go fuck this guy.

I mean 5-0 in the UFC 44 1st round finishes like hasn't even seen a lot of cage time.

I know and I, it's a year and a half and they're already like talking about him fighting Charles Olivera that's crazy.

I mean how old is he?

26 , yeah, I know.

Pissed me right off, dude.

It's so good.

He came down here for camp and was at syndicate, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm getting a lot of work with guys like, like Cody, like Tyler Brennan, who's another barely gonna be going pro, but He can't even find a fight, right?

Yeah, yeah, that's his thing.

But dude, he's super good.

Um, I think he fights next week.

Can you move with those guys?

I know they're big.

They're like bigger weight class, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'll be damned if I let him be nice to me just because I know they're bigger than me, so they are being nice.

I still jump on stuff.

I don't care, dude.

You're gonna have to be mean to me, right?

And you're younger than me.

Don't pity me.

No, uh.

Uh, uh, I'm on you, yeah, and then he gets me, but whatever.

Did you get a chance to work with Qui at all when he was out here?

No, I didn't.

No, I wish , I wish I could have, but, uh, um, I get it.

He was in camp.

He needed like, he needed real looks, not like half-size men look.

Him and Cody are the same weight class, right?

OK.

How , how do they do together?

Uh, I haven't really watched them too much, um.

Uh, I know they're scrappy.

I guess Cody's kind of still coming, coming up, so that might might happen till later, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that, that is something, especially being in syndicate, like I've fought people that have came through and, and I've trained with personally.

And then we end up fighting.

So like, uh, some people are pretty, they're a little indifferent about training with people that are stopping by.

Maybe I should learn something from that too, because I just train with everybody.

I don't care, bigger, bigger guys, smaller guys, whatever.

It, it's tough being here in Vegas, you know, like there's just so many people coming all the time from everywhere.

Is that, is that like the inner workings of a gym because I just saw, um, I think it was.

Navo Sterling talking about how like he would never fight any of the guys from City Kickboxing.

Like what do you, what are your thoughts on that?

Like guys like you're in the UFC, you have a fight, but I'm not gonna fight this guy because I trained with him.

So like if they're actual teammates, that's different because we established some sort of relationship.

If they're guys that just stop through, like that's, that's different, yeah, yeah, that's different.

That's different, so.

Because there was some stuff I don't know, like at the at American Top Team, I think it was with the Moicano Chris Duncan fight.

There was some like bad blood there because they were teammates, but then I think Moicano was mad that Duncan accepted the fight or whatever.

So I, I get that stuff.

We're probably always gonna have it like, um, some people are gonna be against it, some people are gonna be for it.

Like I think it's just something that I don't know, it might be the bridge is gonna be crossed differently depending on who's crossing.

Syndicate is known for like their atmosphere, you know, being, being, you know, good.

It's not ever like you don't have to worry about people coming in to kill you or anything like that.

But do you ever, because it's, you know, kind of so transient and people are coming in, do you ever have people come in and like trying to maybe go too hard or something like that where it's an issue?

Oh, speaking of which, this was, um, a couple of months ago.

Uh, DC and his guys kind of like dojo storm us like old school nineties karate or something, yeah, and like, uh, dude, all those guys were going hard and like, uh, I did a round with one.

It was a tech sparring day, so we're kind of chill and, uh, but, uh, one of the guys wanted cadron, so they grabbed a couple of our guys to do cadrons and they were slugging it out and then I did a round with one of the guys and he was like.

Text bar.

So I'm like touching and moving, just kind of working some things.

He's like, Whoa, whoa.

I was like, Motherfucker, bro.

OK.

So we, we started slugging a little bit and then, uh, and then everything's, it's pretty like mutual for the most part, but like, uh, every now and then you do get those moments where people are coming through.

Yeah, that I remember that kid.

He was a, uh, I think he's an upcoming thirty-fi5er, but like.

Like right after that round, because it was the last round we were doing some grappling rounds, and he goes, You wanna grapple?

And I was like, Oh, you think you're gonna get me here?

I was like, OK, let's go then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So like it's, it's kind of mutual.

It depends on again like people crossing the bridge do it differently, but you can see you just have fun with it.

I love it.

Yeah, the, the no, no hard feelings here.

It is what it is, absolutely.

Uh, running back to the circling back to the UFC fights over the weekend, there was, uh, Gigi Canuto.

She looked really good as well, bro.

She throws down.

I like her.

She, she, she fought on her, I think her tough fight was that week too.

So like, it, yeah, well, they, they aired it.

Oh, they aired it, yes, yeah, they aired it, and then, uh, and then she made her debut that weekend, right, which is so cool.

Yeah, it's super cool, but she threw down in both those fights.

They took two girls so far into the UFC from the, from those that's crazy that they did that before the.

The show ended, yeah, but whatever.

Maybe nobody's watching them.

I, I do love the Ultimate Fighter.

Yeah, I, this is, I feel like it's run its course.

I think I feel like I, I like I tried to watch the season and I like the fighter, the fighters are good.

It's just like the structure of the show.

I used to.

There used to be bad blood between the coaches and then the coaches would fight and now it's like DC and Biss being like happy go lucky, yeah, so yeah, more power, more power to them, but I think tough.

They, they need to figure out how to restructure.

Yeah, I just, I, I kind of think it's past its, it's time.

Like, were, were you ever into it?

Like did you ever watch it faithfully, yeah.

Um, what was your one I watched was Kimbo and Wanderley.

That was a great good.

That was good.

I love the strawway season, even, I mean, the Connor and Uriah, that was, it was fun.

That was fun, yeah, that was funny.

Yeah, yeah, I was watching bits and pieces of that.

I never really watched it too much.

I don't do like with the real.

I fast forward to the fights all the time, yeah, yeah , sure.

Um, OK, let's, let's fast forward and talk about we've got, uh, UFC Sacramento coming up.

Um, let's see who's on the car.

We've got Ruffy, Fluffy, Fluffy and Robocop, yeah, Fluffy Robocop.

That's a scrap.

Yeah.

What did you think of Fluffy's, uh, the, obviously the last time we saw Fluffy out there was against Strickland.

Strickland since won the belt back.

What did you think of that performance, because I think Fluffy, a lot of people.

People were picking Fluffy to win that fight.

I think he might have been the favorite actually.

I, I was picking Fluffy.

Yeah, I thought for sure, but Strickland is just that he's just that pressure.

I hate like this ugly weirdly hard to hit, especially for being so ugly.

He's weird.

Like, yeah, he's got like great deflections.

I think like, bro, it's, it's, it's, I don't know how he does that.

a weird style, yeah, and he's leaning.

I don't know how people don't like.

It must.

He's got a crazy takedown defense because like as you're leaning cross his feet all the time and still manages to stop takedowns and doesn't get kicked very much.

I, I don't know how he's gotta be strong.

Yeah, he's gotta be dense, yeah, or middleweight's gotta suck.

Yeah, I was picking Fluffy to win that, so I was real surprised by, uh, by the way Strickland kind of handled that.

And then, I mean, he was, that was, he would be fighting for the title if he had won that fight.

Now he's got to go back to the drawing board, right?

Yeah, and Robocop's no easy fight, right, but he got in a main event after coming off a loss.

That's, that's cool in his backyard too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, hopefully he can rise up to that.

Uh, Robocop does, he's got freaky power, dude.

He scares me.

I know it's like a terminator, dude just doesn't go away.

I know there's that whole thing where Joe Rogan's always like, I don't know how, I don't know how Robocop makes 185.

That giant, it's, he is a specimen.

Like how, how do you see it going?

No, Fluffy does not look like that.

Yeah, you guys got any predictions, um.

I wanna go fluffy just because I'm a big fluffy fan.

Yeah, I like fluffy too.

He's good for the sport and he's he's a super nice guy.

Like always, he's, not when he's in fight camp.

He's a, I, I think everybody when he's in fight week, I mean, when you know, you do those media interviews, he's definitely a different person, but I got the chance to talk to him like.

A week and a half where he's not cutting weight or doing and he's such a nice guy he's cool just likes to smoke weed and when I interview him though, it's like it's like I have to prepare to edit the interview because every other word is fucked so I have to like edit out.

It's like, all right, cut here cut here cut here.

Um, who else?

Oh, it's Cody.

Cody was on the card.

Cody was on.

He had to pull out, and I really loved that fight, him, him versus Gage Young, right?

Oh, that was gonna be a scrap.

Yeah, that Gau Young's good.

I like him.

Yeah, he's he likes a scrapper, uh, and so is Cody, and, and Cody's like, dude, that fight was gonna be that had fight of the night potential.

Yeah, 100%.

I feel like just the way Cody fights and like, dude, yeah, I mean, I, I liked it because it was a very winnable fight for him.

Like it would have been, you know, it would have been a scrap, but I really think he would have walked away, you know, with that win.

I hope they rebook that, you know, because that's, yeah, it's a good one for the fans.

Most of us, if we're booked, we don't wanna wait, so we end up accepting some other fight.

But like, we'll see.

Feel bad for Cody though.

That sucks.

It's like even just the way camp started, there were these little nagging things, and then they just add it up, and then another new one.

It's like, bro, like it can't do this right now.

It sucks when you have to make that decision, I'm sure, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Look, I've, I've been lucky.

Like I've never had to pull out a fight except for, oh no, I did, uh, I got sick in London real bad.

Yeah, that was a heartbreaking one.

Well, tell that story, yeah, so, uh, I, I had just fought.

I just, who I, I had just knocked out Louis Smolka, and, uh, I called out Nathaniel Wood for the London card, which is like a few months later, and, uh, nothing ever happened.

He ended up getting booked or whatever, but, uh, I caught wind on Twitter that his opponent fell out.

So I hit up my manager and I was like, hey bro, fucking like I'll go.

I'll, I'll jump over there right now.

And then, uh.

It was like 2, maybe less than 2 weeks, something like that, and uh, he's like, OK, cool, we'll get it done and then got it worked out, whatever, and then something happened on the, I caught the flu or something.

I got there and like my, I remember my bones were cold.

I was like, what is going on?

Were you feeling it on the way out there?

Uh, I was starting to feel a little funny.

And then as soon as we got there, because it was a long travel to a long layover and then a long flight, and then I was like maybe it's just a plane and, uh, I remember we got to the hotel and like my face was like pale and I was like, fucking what is going on.

That have been 20.

21, 2021, I think mid mid 2021 and uh something like that and And yeah, and then, uh, I went to go do my check-ins and I put my hood on.

I was like, OK, I'm just gonna like, and I was just kind of going through the motions like, dude, I am not feeling good.

And I was like burning up, sweating but cold at the same time and I went and Took like a super hot shower and uh like it made made me worse.

I got out of it.

I was like, oh my God.

And then I went and talked to the PT to go get some stuff scheduled for the week and and Heather, she was looking at me.

She's like, are you OK?

And I was like, dude, I don't know.

Like, uh, they came, took my vitals and did some stuff and they're like, dude, we can't let you fight like this.

And I was like, Oh, I'm good.

I'm good.

Like we'll be OK.

I was like, maybe we can just not cut weight because they were, they were worried about the weight cut.

And uh they're like no we'd like look at you and I was like I don't wanna look at me like was it like a fever where they were like oh there's something or like what yeah like 102 something and uh and I just felt like dog shit and it, it all that whole thing.

It was so weird.

Like, uh, so I had just bought a ring because I was gonna propose to Shino after the fight, and then, uh, um, and then didn't end up fighting, and I was like, Well, I can't do that now.

Now it's weird because I was already in London too, and I, it's like, uh, and then my friend there, he's like, No, dude, just go do it.

Just go do it.

It'll be OK.

Then I, then I was like, yeah, maybe you're right.

So we went to dinner and had a cool view of like the London Bridge and all this stuff, and it, it was, it was, it was super cool, but, uh, she loves London too, yeah, yeah, yeah, she grew up there for a bit, so it, it, it was cool for her to go back and, uh, and then.

Yeah, I was like, so, so I did, and thankfully, yeah, of course she was gonna say yeah.

I mean it's cool, but uh, were you nervous a little?

Oh yeah, I didn't even, I didn't even really ask her, dude.

I just got on one knee and gave her the ring, and she goes, Shut up.

Are you serious?

And I was like, Well, if you want to, if you want to, yeah.

Oh my goodness.

Well that, that, that was kind of cool.

But then, uh, uh, um, and I had a prior to that I had already apologized to Nathaniel Wood.

I was like, bro, they're not gonna let me fight.

So, maybe we can move up a weight.

I was like, I tried to tell him that.

And they said they're just not gonna let me.

And then he caught wind of that and went to Twitter and went on a little tirade and a little shit, dude, like talking shit about you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah .

But it was clear that you were sick.

What did he say?

Yeah, yeah, well, since I had proposed over there because we had posted that, yeah, yeah, he was going off on that.

Oh my God, mind your business.

I, I, I sort of get at the same time, but like now, but now it left a sour taste in my mouth, so I still don't like that guy.

Yeah, for sure.

He seems like a nice dude though.

I've watched some videos too.

He seems like a good dude, but like.

And I get it .

Maybe it's just mad.

So like, what was those?

What are those emotions like, because like, obviously, you know, you felt the emotion of losing and stuff, but like having to pull out like flew all the way there.

That was crazy.

That was, uh, the, um, well, thankfully I got engaged.

That was the only bright thing I could take from it.

That was the only said yes, yeah , yeah, yeah, yeah, no.

Then oh then that would have been the worst trip of my life.

But, uh, no, but, um, yeah, it was, it was.

Shitty.

It just sucked.

Like I'd never been, been in a situation like that.

Like I've had opponents miss weight and I still take the fight.

So like, like, usually it's always came.

I get a fight and that's kind of that's what I'm there for.

And it was kind of like out of your, your, your control, your choice.

They kind of pulled you.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

I, I wish I wouldn't have went and seen him and just fucking hid.

You spend the rest of the week head back home, went, went back like, uh, we, we, we had scheduled to stay an extra day.

So I just went back.

So does that mean you don't get paid?

Uh, uh, no, no, they ended up paying me show for that one because I made the trip, yeah, so that, that was cool.

That was cool, but I think it did count as a fight on my contract, so they scratched one, so like.

Double-edged sword a little bit, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, um, did you get any bonuses?

No, bro, I, I felt like a, like a, I had to knock out a smoker that like was in the running.

I was there and Cheyenne got the bonus.

Cheyenne got the bonus, yeah, it wasn't even that good of a fight, Cheyenne.

No, it was a good fight.

She, she, she'd been on a good fight and then, uh, um, Fazi got a spinning heel kick, so that got a bonus.

I remember being in the back and like we just knew each other, you know, we were like hanging out all the time and I was in the back and I was like, oh my God, when you got the knockout, I was so sick.

Yeah, yeah, that was wild.

And then, um, uh.

And then I thought me and uh Elijah Smith, young kid, um, we threw down, we threw down, um, if it wouldn't have been for my bloody face, that was apex too I think I was out I was that dude.

I, I think that's another one that could have got your way, yeah, I, uh, can we, can we talk about the, the judging because because it's like fighting is like a weird sport, right, where it's like human opinion factors into who can win or lose the contest.

How hard is it to like Accept that like something that you can't change but that I, it's like human error making uh affecting your career, your pay, your livelihood.

So and , and that's one thing that that really sucks like this last one for instance I, uh, um, I was working on a deal with the bands like we were gonna put some shoes together and I had just met the dude like randomly or whatever and, and we were structuring some stuff and, uh, and there was too much to do right before the fight to get it done.

So like we decided on it when I get back.

He goes, cool, you get this win.

Let's figure this all out.

And I was like , OK, that's gonna rely on me getting the win.

So like That could have been a great thing for my career as well, just to go into some other areas with stuff and uh.

The judges who don't have any, they don't have to have any accountability.

There's no punishment for them for doing a bad job.

They don't get cut or whatever like.

They can play their role.

They don't have to do.

Yeah, they don't have, yeah, yeah, exactly.

They don't gotta get quizzed on it, yeah, and like it's so different every time.

It's kind of, it's subjective and stuff.

So like, like it can be the same exact fight watched by different judges and have a different thing, but, uh, uh, it's kind of shitty for it to be relying on that stuff because, uh.

Like it does affect things going forward and, and pretty dramatically now there's half your pay is gone.

Any, yeah, yeah, it can be a major, major life thing.

Like I refuse to be a victim of that though, so I'm aware of that stuff, you know what I mean?

But I like, I, I can't go crying home on that because there, there, I could, I could have done more obviously we, we've seen how it went.

I should have just been doing a little more of what I was doing good earlier and then been fine, so.

Yeah, yeah, I try not to hold too much of a grudge on it, but it does make me a little, yeah, for sure, for sure.

Sometimes like just, just humans like float off into space, you know, sometimes, and sometimes like .

You'll see, like, you'll get scorecards at the end of the day.

You'll get scorecards, and I'm like, I feel like they weren't even watching.

I felt like, I feel like something.

I'm like, bro, are you, you know which guy was which?

Like I swear half the time I'm like, like in the last red and blue bro.

I, I, I went and watched the, I rewatched the fight right after .

I was like, what did I miss?

And I went, we rewatched it, and some of the stats they were showing like in the first round they had him going for 1 submission and me going for 3, which didn't happen because he went for 3.

And I pretended I went for one.

So like, so I'm like, bro, you guys don't even have like the stuff right in the first place.

And, and I, and I've seen the striking stats get super backwards.

Like I was getting outstruck from somebody who didn't throw a punch in a different fight, and I was like, What is?

I was like, bro, I was like, what are we looking at?

So I, I don't, I don't know.

What about reffing?

Do you feel like, do you like, you see, you see all the things that's going on with like the referees and stuff like that.

Have you ever dealt with anything with like Herb Dean or any of them in your, um, about the only one I can think of is, is Herzog stopped the fight when I was getting leg kicked, and I wasn't happy for like a half a second.

I was like, because he, he stepped in because I got hit with the leg kick and then dropped, and then I went to sit up and he stepped in.

I was like, 00, you're right.

So that one was a pretty quick acceptance, but like.

Uh, for me personally, I don't think I've really dealt with like bad ref calls other than, well, in the, in the last one that the dude got some warnings for headbutting and, uh, some warnings for holding inside my gloves or on the gloves or something and uh.

Yeah, yeah, and, uh, and it just got a whole bunch of warnings in the fight and no points taken, so I'm like, OK, what are we doing?

Like, like, is this, are these real things, or what's the point, or yeah, or can you just take a step back and shut up and let us fight?

What's your thoughts on that?

Should it be like a gray area or should it be black and white, because like, and I think with that stuff it's black and white, right?

No warning, right?

Just take the point because like you get warned in the back.

In the NFL, whether the defender means to push the receiver or not, it's gonna be a penalty.

It doesn't matter about intention, right?

Yeah, and that's true.

You get the warning in the back, yeah, yeah, we get lots of warnings in the back.

Like, I mean, I get, I get it for some things like people zig when they shook when they're, when they were expected to zag, and then you get a nut kick like, OK, we take our time.

Like that was obviously unintentional, but people are sitting there like you see Islam on.

How many times that dude's grabbing inside somebody's gloves and stuff, yeah, yeah, I poke, grabbing the fence, grabbing the cage, yeah, yeah, and, and I, dude, if we start penalizing on like the eye pokes, I'm pretty sure we'll stop seeing them like right away.

Like if there's no, is there one ref you think is like better than the others, like the gold standard, or do you not really pay attention?

Probably Herzog.

I think Herzog's the best.

I think he's, he's, he's probably the most.

Assistant, but I'm, I'm sure he's had his moments too.

Did you see all that stuff when the gambling thing was going down with, uh, Delgarian where, because he was the, he, he got involved in all of that and he had to like he was having Twitter wars with people calling him out for fixing fight Herzog.

Oh, he was having Twitter wars.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Oh yeah, I, I saw that.

I, I was, I was front and center watching all that.

It's pretty crazy.

This is nuts.

Oh man, I'm glad that he kind of cleared.

It seems like he's cleared his name from it.

I mean, people are, or is it just died down completely?

It just, it died down.

It's just one of those things.

They just pop up and then it's, it's it's the next time there's a questionable call in a fight, people bring it up again, and I mean even her.

Dean was getting, you know, he at one point people thought he was the best in the gold standard, and now he's getting booed.

Now he's the, yeah, getting booed at the apex, and so we were waiting because I was at the apex on Saturday for the, for the quilling card, and I forget what fight he was reffing, and I was, we were all sitting on meteor row waiting for the booze, but they were at, then they actually cheered and I'm like, yeah, they already, they're over it, yeah, that's how it goes, dude.

That's rough, man.

You just can't win in this, in this game, right?

It tough.

It is all of them, all of the jobs involved.

Um, so we talked about UFC SA.

We talked about , you know, these past fights.

Um, do you wanna promote UFC Paris here, the watch party?

Oh yeah, so yeah, uh, Sheno knows, we're gonna do a UFC, we're gonna do a live watch party for UFC Paris on Sports Illustrated.

So definitely would like you to come.

Yes, uh, and it, it'll be, it's, it's, it's, well, and it's, you know, morning, a little coffee and violence, dude, dude.

That's my favorite.

Anytime there's we're gonna hang out and watch it's like you know so uh make sure you guys tune in you don't know now you know we're gonna bet 5th on Sports Illustrated.

We'll have that in the next couple weeks when you guys get back.

23rd, I think, again, I'm there for the ride, so I don't know.

I'm pretty sure 23rd though.

Cool.

Well, I can't wait to see it.

Thank you so much, Vince, for coming on.

It was, it, I, I'm, I hope you are proud of the career that you have and you're gonna continue to have, and I'm actually gonna stop ending this because I have one more question that that came to my mind.

I wanted to know, you know, um, obviously like you said, you got 10 more years to go, and I believe that, but what do you have plans for when you are?

Done, do you wanna, you know, be involved in the fight games in some way, shape or form, like, you know, in media or commentary or just coaching, uh, all of it.

Sign me up, dude.

I love it.

Like whatever I can do for, for this sport, like it's, it's given me so much like personally, financially, like kind of all that, let that, uh, um, kind of just wanna keep giving it, keep giving back to it, even the quick breakdown.

I forget you were breaking down one fight in combos and stuff.

I, I, I'm automatically thought I'm like, yeah, you should get on some commentary.

Yeah, I've, I've done a little bit of that.

I, I, yeah, I, I did enjoy, I do enjoy some commentary.

Um, I'm down for that too.

I'm, I'm down for it all, dude.

I, I, I love this sport and it's like there's, there's nothing like it.

Me too.

I appreciate that.

Let's go.

Yeah, you gotta start paving that way, you know, just like I gotta get back on my YouTube videos.

It's a lot of work editing.

Shout out to producers, dude.

This stuff, this stuff kills me.

Yeah, I know that's I'm like, you know, we're in the studio on Tuesdays, and then the whole following week we're editing from the show, and then, then we're getting ready for the next Tuesday, and then it's just, you know, never ending.

Yeah, we love it, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

OK, that was my last question.

Thank you so much, Vince, for coming on.

I am a, you know, obviously one of your biggest fans.

Love your story.

Um, so yeah, thank you for being here in the corner.

Um, yeah, let's go, appreciate it guys.

Thank you.

Awesome, of course.

All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in.

This is In the Corner with Destiny McCuben.

I'm Doug Vasquez.

Real fighters, real stories, real talk.

We'll see you next round.