Atlantic Coast Conference Deep Dive | Others Receiving Votes

OK.

Welcome to the show.

Others receiving votes.

I'm Pat 40 joined as always by Brian Fisher and Kevin Sweeney, my Sports Illustrated slash SI.

com colleagues.

And uh we're gonna do something a little bit different for the next few weeks.

It's that time of year.

It's Complaint month, and it's also not much Happening Month, which is why complaints tend to fill the vacuum.

But, uh, so what we're gonna do.

As the major conferences have their spring meetings, we're going to do a like state of the conference show for each of the four power conferences, and then we will probably tack one on at the end that's like Notre Dame Palooza plus the other conferences, including the Zombie Pac-12, which has come back to life, and others.

So, we're starting.

This little, uh, theme, I guess you would say, with the ACC as they are meeting beginning today, Monday, May 11th, in drumroll please.

Amelia Island, Florida at the Ritz-Carlton.

Remember, nobody has enough money in college sports.

That's the bottom line.

Everybody is scrambling for dollars, but check out where all of these uh spring meetings are happening.

We'll just start with that one.

We'll get, we'll, we'll touch on every one of these meetings and where they're located as we go along.

So, Ritz-Carlton, ACC baby.

Uh, guys, the, the, the interesting times in the ACC.

A year ago, it was kind of like, uh, they're gonna make it.

2 years ago, really was, are they gonna make it?

So far they're making it, but what exactly is the state of the conference?

Uh, where does it sit in the national hierarchy?

And is it trending up or down or steady?

Brian, what's your read on the big picture, 35,000 ft view of the ACC?

Yeah, you know it, it's always interesting this time of year, you know, uh, being in the Ritz-Carlton's and, uh, some of the other places that are even nicer than that, uh, at some other conference meetings, but, um, you know, it's a good time to, uh, to connect, uh, as a conference, and I think that does seem, seem very valuable for, for a lot of the, uh, administrator.

that go to this, the coaches that go to this, these things, um, because there's a lot going on in college athletics and the ACC is right in the thick of it, right?

You know, I mean, you talk about, uh, they've kind of gotten over realignment at this point, you know, I think they've, they fully integrated the, the likes of Cal and Stanford and SMU into the league, and they, they do feel like more, Uh, ACC schools at this point.

But, you know, it's still kind of, it seems like a conference caught in the middle, you know, in, in terms of, you have the pressures kind of above them from the Big 10 and the SEC and certainly some of the schools that have been agitating to kind of get up, back up into that group.

They, they're fresh off those, uh, all the legal, legal wrangling from Clemson and Florida State, uh, last year that, that finally got settled and hopefully put behind them.

But it does, it just seems like it's, it's a conference that's also facing, you know, pressure from, from, from below as well in terms of how, how do you amalgamate.

Uh, this, this coast to coast conference that has a lot of different schools with a lot of different backgrounds and a lot of different focuses, uh, both athletically and, and academically.

Um, and, and I think that that's the big challenge from the ACC.

It's, it's, it's a league that's kind of been, been bolted on, you know, you got certain parts bolted on and, and, and trying to adjust to that.

That it's, uh, it, it's a fascinating test case, you know, in, in, in college athletics of surviving and, and advancing, uh, to the next day, but, uh, we'll, we'll see, uh, what the, what, what ultimately the ACC has, has in hand.

But, uh, it seems like, uh, uh, one of those leagues caught in the middle, um, with, with the pressure from above and then, uh, pressure from below as well.

And I also think you just start to feel as the money has skyrocketed for the SEC and the Big 10 and the gap has grown.

I do think as we hit, you know, a couple years into Rev Share, several years into NIL at this point, I think you start to feel in the ACC maybe a little bit of pressure of, like, we know we need to keep up with the Joneses paying players, but it's harder for us to raise the dollars because we don't, we're not starting at 70, we're starting at 30 or or wherever it is, and, and.

I think, I think you feel that in basketball, certainly, um, maybe not for Duke, but for, you know, some of the middle middle tier programs that have a lot of aspiration, you know, the Syracuse's of the world, etc.

I mean, I think Pittsburgh and, and not firing Jeff Capel was a good illustration of that.

Um.

You know, and then obviously in football, I think you feel that as well with, with, with the Florida states of the world, and, and, and how are we keeping up?

We have, we, we have the expectation we always have expected to be at the level of the elite, uh, and we don't have, it's going to be harder for us to keep up financially with the, with the elite in, in college sports right now.

I think that's the challenge that the ACC faces is.

As we head towards maybe a second round of realignment here around 2030.

But for now, it seems like at least there's a little more stability and you can try to solve those problems internally, uh, over the next couple of years before, before that next wave comes.

Yeah, I mean, I think they're, they're a solid 3 at this point, you know, clearly, they're, they're well behind 1 and 2, which is the Big 10 and SEC in that order at this moment.

And I think they're ahead of the Big 12.

Um, you know, they're, they're not far ahead of the Big 12, but they're ahead.

Uh, they, again, they, they survived, all right.

They avoided the, the nuclear option after being sued by Florida State and Clemson.

They patched that up.

They went with an uneven in revenue share agreement, which I still don't think is a very good idea, especially when, if it's if it is truly success-based, fine.

When it's Ratings-based as part of it is, I think that's a bad idea.

Um, Florida State has been hot garbage on the football field for two straight years and is probably cashing the biggest revenue check.

Part of that, they, they earned by being very good the years before that, 2022 and 2023, especially, but still, uh, I think, You're rewarding the wrong things there, and they did that in an attempt to keep the house together.

Um, is the house further splitting with Duke's Amazon deal with its non-conference games?

That's, uh, that's another element to this.

Um, another place that has most favored nation status when it comes to basketball.

And the issue of Of whether everybody in this league is in it together or not, continues, I think, to kind of simmer underneath.

For now, look, I think, I think you sit there and you say, we're #3, and we're trending up a little bit, because look what Miami did in football.

They made it to the national championship game and were very competitive in that game, and getting Miami up off the mat was hugely important.

Basketball, Duke has had some ghastly finishes to the season, but is one of the top, you know, 234, year in, year out brands right now in the 2020s in basketball.

They've got some underachievers in both football and basketball, and we'll get to those in a minute.

But I think in general, if you're sitting down there in Amelia Island saying, how are we doing?

If you're at least realistic about being behind the ACC uh the SEC and the Big 10, you're, you're feeling pretty good.

So, let's get into it a little bit here about from a football perspective.

What are the league's strengths?

Let's start there.

Uh, Brian, what, where, where's this league hanging its hat right now from a football standpoint?

Well, you know, you have teams that are, that are spending, you know, in, in football, and that's, that's been a big change, you know, for, for the ACC in general.

And I think that has been the, the most notable change, uh, under Jim Phillips these last couple of years is, uh, the league has finally taken football seriously, uh, which I, I don't think you could, could have said, uh, was the case, you know, conference-wide.

Um, and, and there's still certainly, uh, some schools that are still a little bit of a laggard in, in that respect, but you are seeing obviously Miami, uh, making it to the national.

championship game.

That is, is first and foremost.

You have football centric programs that continue to want to spend, uh, like those, those peers in the Big 10 and the SEC, um, at places like Florida State and Clemson, you know, that, that do think football first and foremost.

You're seeing, um, you know, Louisville, uh, come along.

You're seeing SMU certainly, uh, making the playoffs a couple of years ago, uh, right, and, you know, in, in their first year in the league.

You're seeing other situations too, you know, I, I, I think Cal and Stanfo.

have started to take, you know, spending on football, spending on football rosters more particularly, uh, a lot more seriously.

You're seeing, um, now you could question how, how well they've spent it, uh, in terms of North Carolina, but you could understand the, the change from a university standpoint to take football more seriously.

Um, at that school, obviously, Duke winning the league, um, and, and sweeping both the football, men's basketball and women's basketball titles , um, this past season like that.

It was a big thing for that school, um, and they've certainly dipped their toes into, um, you know, spending in the, in the transfer market.

So, um, you know, it, it's, it's not there yet and, and certainly the depth of, of programs is not there compared to some of their peers, even especially in the, in the Big 12, which they're gonna be directly compared to.

Um, but they have, you know, national championship caliber programs that, that could win CFP titles.

And I think that's, uh, something you could probably question in terms of the big.

12 at this point, um, that the ACC has, you know, there, there's no Miami in the, in the Big 12.

So that's something that I think that is, is working for the league and, uh, I think, uh, from the athletic directors, from the coaches themselves, from, um, you know, even the, even the presidents, there is a kind of a, a realization that you have to be football first in this environment and, uh, the ACC has finally come around to that.

So that, that's good for the league in general when it comes to everything going on with, with football.

Yeah, I mean Look, where Clemson and Florida State and North Carolina have been the last couple of years, for the fact that the ACC can still look back and say, we had a team play for the national championship, um, I mean , it's good, it's a great sign, right?

It's, it's, it that, that, that I think is, makes you feel good about where things are.

The other thing I would point out, and I think Brian summarized it well otherwise.

I think the SMU edition, which was sort of questioned and maybe laughed at a little bit just financially, has been a really positive thing, especially for football in the league.

I mean, I guess they, they, they handed out a, uh, a not great loss, uh, I guess, nearly, you know, could have, could have taken Miami out in some senses, but at the same time, I think SMU has proven to be A very solid program to add to this league, uh , and help keep things afloat as some of the bigger brands in the conference have, have ebbed and flowed.

And I, and I think from that perspective, I think you feel pretty good, uh, about what SMU can bring to the league moving forward, especially as they continue to get their kind of, uh, feet under them as a, a true power conference program.

Yeah, I think it was uh really a pretty good offseason in terms of retention for the ACC.

Start with the coaches.

Brett Lashley still at SMU.

A lot of people thought he might be going to Arkansas or somewhere else.

Brent Key is still at Georgia Tech.

He was highly thought of by some people that were hiring.

Jeff Bromm is still at Louisville.

He had some dances elsewhere.

So, you retained three very good successful coaches, and yes, to your point, SMU, I would argue that SMU is the biggest.

University winner of realignment of the 2020 so far.

That they have maximized, they've made the biggest jump up and have maximized that opportunity better than anybody.

I'd say BYU might be a close second, but going to the playoffs.

Uh, in 2024, going to the NCAA tournament last year in men's basketball.

Uh, they, they, look, they, they paid for it, literally, they bought their way in, but they're putting their, they're backing up the money so far.

Um, additionally, I think, um, they added a couple of good coaches, James Franklin, Virginia Tech is a net ad.

We'll see about Tosh Lupoi at, at Cal, but I think that can be a net ad.

They certainly needed a change at Cal.

Justin Wilcox era just gotten stale.

After years of being just a little above 500.

The quarterback retention in the league, Darian Mentz is still in the league.

Duke didn't retain him, but Miami got him, a little lawsuit involved there in a settlement, but Uh, can be a potential star.

CJ Bailey staying at North Carolina State, Kevin Jennings at SMU, Gron Keaway, Sagapoateelli at Cal, Mason Henschel at Pitt.

I think they did a good job keeping some talented quarterbacks there.

Miami, uh, having Mark Fletcher and Malachi Tony back on the skill position players, I think really sets them up well.

They've got Some holes to fill on the lines, but boy oh boy, can they be explosive.

So, I look at What, what the, what the league kept in place, uh, and I think that they put themselves in a good position.

So, uh, a pretty good year of retention there.

Now, uh, what are the weaknesses from a football standpoint?

Kevin, why don't we start with you here?

I mean, I mentioned it off the top, like, you you, you have to have your best programs competing at the highest level, right?

Obviously, last year's Clemson season, a big disappointment, we've talked a lot about Florida State, uh, in , in the last several weeks, and I think obviously that's a situation that is tenuous at best for Mike Norvell and certainly not producing at the level uh that they expect, uh , ever since that, uh, undefeated, undefeated season.

Um.

You know, the Carolina investment is great, but the Carolina football product is not very good at the moment.

Um, and I, I think that, you know, you do wonder how much maybe some of the rises of, oh, here comes Georgia Tech, here comes SMU, etc.

are driven by the fact that there has been this vacuum.

Like, how, how great have those programs been versus how mediocre has some of the rest of the conference been.

And, and I think, look, it At the end of the day, it's great that, yeah, Florida State's making money because they're on TV and people are watching their games, but, like, Florida State's gonna need to start making some money by winning some football games, and, uh, you know, for the Miami of the world, for, for, for, for the other teams that are looking to be competitive at the highest level in this, in this sport, like, they need marquee games, and I think the worry, and, and, and I think we'd probably say this about the Big 12, and the reason that the Big 12 is number 4, as you put it, Pat, is that There's just a lot of blah, you know, it's like, oh, look, Oklahoma State's playing today, who, who's excited about this, right?

Like, you worry you get into that spot, oh good, we've got the Wake Forest Pit game on the CW, like, what, what, what, what are we doing with this?

Like, you, you worry you get into that spot quickly if you can't have some monsters with the Florida State's and Miami's of the world.

And there's, there's a lot of catch up, you know, for, for a lot of these programs and, and, and it's funny you say that.

I mean, like I, I feel like if any program, uh, deserves to be branded as the CW program, it is wake and Pit cause it does seem like every Saturday they are in that, uh, 3:30 uh CW window or whatever it is.

Um, it seems like, uh, that they are regulars in that, uh, package, and I, I mean that's, that's part of the problem too, you know, like in terms of like actually tapping out, uh, and, and maximizing investments and, and maximizing, um, your, your donor bases.

It's, it's tough for some of these.

Schools, you know, just in terms of, you know, what, I mean, Wake Forest is the smallest school in, in, in all of FBS, right?

You know, in terms of, you know, student enrollment, what they have to tap into, yes, they have some, some wealthy donors and whatnot, but, um, you know, getting enough of them, uh, to start investing in, in your program, how it needs to be like that's, that's a big challenge, you know, at a lot of these places, you know, and, um, frankly, you know, a lot of these schools are just having to play catch up to, um, not spending on, on certain programs, especially in football, uh, these last, really the last decade plus, you know, in Syracuse, having to constantly reinvent the wheel and, and it seems like they've, they've never been able to get over that hump, uh, kind of like they were, uh, you know, certainly back in like the 90s.

Uh, you know, other programs are, uh, trying to play catch up as fast as they can, but, uh, you know, there's a kind of a limit in terms of how, how you can kind of slowly churn those gears over, uh, as, as an institution.

And I think that's probably the biggest challenge for, you know, a lot of these schools, you know, moving forward.

And, um, maybe that limits the league .

Um, it certainly makes things more interesting in terms of kind of that middle of the pack.

And, uh, really, anybody can kind of rise up from, from year to year, but, um, at the end of the day, Providing a challenge, providing a platform for some of the others, you know, that, that are capable of really carrying that flag into the CFP, uh, you know, it's kind of the big thing for this, for, uh, the ACC and, um, not having, you know, Florida State, Clemson performing to what their resources would say they are, are, uh, certainly investing at and, and what they are historically been, uh, these last couple of years.

That, that's gonna be the big thing, uh, for them moving forward.

I'm here for that CW 3:30 slot, man.

Uh, you know what, when you, when you call, when you fire up the YouTube quad box, you inevitably get that game in there.

You know, you, you want, you may not want it, but you're gonna get it.

And so by God, give me that Wake Pitt game or Wake Virginia Tech, I think SMU Wake.

It was maybe like the worst football game I've ever watched last year.

There was like 9, there was a possession change every minute.

There was always a turnover, no one could score.

It, it was a wild football game and perfect, perfect for the CW, perfect for the CW.

That is CW programming right there.

That's what we want, it's what we need.

Um, no , I mean, to me, I think the, the weaknesses right now are, are fairly glaring, and it's, it is the Florida State malaise, and it is Clemson's slide.

Both those things can be reversed, maybe quickly, maybe soon, but Uh, for the two programs that had put themselves out in front, whether completely justifiably or not, it's at least in Florida State's, uh, case, uh, they've got to live up to it.

They've got to back it up, they've got to do better.

You know, 7 and 6 from Clemson, no good.

Florida, Florida State in the last 9 seasons is 56-54.

They had a run of mediocre, then they had two great seasons, and then they've been flat out bad after that.

And the fact that they're still kind of anchored with uh Mike Norvell there is an issue.

We'll see how long they're anchored to him, mid-season, I don't know, depends how things go.

But I don't have a lot of faith in.

The roster rebuild.

They played a lot of freshmen, maybe those guys step up and do better.

They retained Deuce Robinson, wide receiver who's really good, but I don't, I'm not sold on the quarterback, Ashton Daniels, who was at Stanford, and then Auburn.

And I'm not sold on Mike Norvell.

And the latest.

Uh, rebooting of the coordinators and what they've got going on there.

So they need Florida State, they need Clemson.

One thing I think that they have, that the ACC has going for it, and certainly helped it last year, those games against Notre Dame, because Miami beating Notre Dame was the The uh price of admission to the playoffs, and they get a chance to play them again, they're gonna play them in South Bend in November, which will be interesting.

But those games against Notre Dame give you a chance to really buttress your non-conference profile, and to get some big wins outside, some games, you know, games, those games are never being on CW at 3:30, cause they're big opportunities for the ACC and if they take advantage of them, it helps the whole league.

So, Uh, plenty to do there, yeah, I mean, you guys are right, they're spending more on football.

Everybody is spending more on football, everybody is trying in football.

Not everybody's gonna succeed, that's the way it goes.

The North Carolina thing will be fascinating this year, uh, year two of Belichick, it's got to get better.

If it doesn't, uh, you know, that could fall apart in a hurry.

But Beyond Miami, who, who else is stepping up this year?

I think there are several candidates, but it would sure help them if two of the candidates turn out to be Florida State and Clemson.

So, all right, let's take a look at basketball, league strengths in basketball, Kevin, go.

Yeah, I mean, it was, it was in really dire straits in 2025, and, you know, they got 4 bids to the NCAA tournament out of 2018.

I think 8 teams were outside the top 100 in Ken Palm, and it was a disaster, and bounced back really nicely this past year with, with 8, and I think You know, look, no conference felt the kind of leadership transition of, of all these older elite coaches than the ACC.

I mean, you lost.

Coach K and Tony Bennett, and Roy Williams, and Jim Boeheim and Rick Pitino, and Jim Larranaga, and, you know, the list goes on and on and on, right?

And You know, that was always going to be difficult to deal with, but I think a lot of those, those places didn't necessarily stick the landing with their, with , with their new hires, and or wound up in a spot where those guys' tenure dipped towards the end, like, Tony Bennett didn't win an NCAA tournament game after the national championship, uh, Leonard Hamilton's Florida State teams kind of flopped down the stretch.

Larranaga had a brutal final year before, uh, calling it quits at Christmas.

Um, it, it was a difficult place to be.

Syracuse hasn't gotten back, but I think the positive is, again, you double your bids in, in year one, you make some really nice hires.

I mean, Jay Lucas has done a great job so far at Miami, that's a program on the upward swing.

Ryan Odom has been phenomenal, uh, early at Virginia, 30 wins in year one, you can't ask for anything better than that.

Um, Louisville and Pat Kelsey, that obviously had to get right, uh, and I think they've been good, they haven't been elite, but I think all things considered, after the Kenny Payne debacle to win 51 games in 2 years, you gotta feel great about that outcome for, for, for, for Louisville basketball, and we'll see if they can get back to competing for championships here, uh, in the near future.

So, you know, NC State gets bumped with the Will Wade thing, that wasn't ideal.

Uh, we'll see if Syracuse can, can get it going with Jerry McNamara.

I feel pretty good about that.

Uh, I think Jerry's really, really sharp and really smart, but at the end of the day, This was, this looked really bad about a year ago at this time, and now there's some real momentum and some really good young coaches to go with John Shire and Duke, which has been the best, it's been the best program in the country the last couple of years, it just hasn't won the big one in the in the NCAA tournament.

Yeah, I mean, the winningest program in the last 3 years for sure and then, uh, you know, just not with the trophy cabinet to, to kind of show for it, in terms of bringing in all that talent and look, they're, they're going to be continuing to be right there as far as one of the elite programs.

And so I think when you have that, you know, you have at least something to kind of build off, but I, I think it's also been pretty apparent when, you know, Duke only loses 2 games in the last 2 years in conference play.

That is an issue, you know, that, that's, that's It's not, uh, any kind of sign of, of conference strength and especially , you know, given how Duke has also run through the, the conference tournaments.

I mean, this has been a, a very top-heavy league.

And, uh, you know, I think the biggest issue certainly is, has been North Carolina not kind of pulling their weight and we'll, we'll see if that ultimately gets turned around.

I know we'll talk about the kind of the, the subtraction, uh, issues there, uh, going forward, but, um, you know, it is, it is an improving league basketball-wise.

And obviously, there's so many.

Uh, fans out there, administrators that, that do live and breathe this sport.

So I think if anybody can figure that out to, to get back to , um, you know, producing, you know, the majority of the conference going to the NCAA tournament and, uh, having more bids, it's going to be the ACC.

And, and I think you're starting to see that, you know, you're, in addition to some of the investments that we've seen on the football side, you're, you're starting to see it in, in basketball now.

Um, and I think, uh, others are, are coming around to that, um.

It's gonna be interesting.

There's gonna be a little bit more of a push pull in terms of where those resources are being invested, uh, nowadays around the ACC programs, but, um, you know, you can understand, you know, look, just look at Louisville, you know, going into this upcoming season and what they've been able to do.

Uh, I, I mean, I, I think Pat Kelsey, after the, the depths of the Kenny Payne era, you know, to, to not only turn around that program, but to really make them a, a national contender, uh, these last couple of years, uh, that he's been able to do that.

I think that's a big.

Positive for the league to have some, some sort of counterweight, uh, to, to what Duke is doing, um, is good.

And I think that's something for the ACC to continue to build on.

They've obviously changed to their conference schedule and reduced that a little bit, uh, done more things out of conference and going to certain MTEs, um, for, for a lot of these programs that they've been able to find more success this past season.

So I think it's, it, it's another kind of positive momentum story for the ACC, but it's not where they want to be, uh, ultimately.

Yeah, I think they, they made coaching changes that had to be made.

Um, some tough ones where you're, you're, you're telling Hubert Davis at his alma mater, and a guy that took North Carolina to the Final 44 years ago, that, that he's got to go.

You're telling Adrian Autry, who was the handpicked successor to Jim Boeheim, he's gotta go.

Not, not pleasant, but had to happen.

Boston College made a change, Georgia, Georgia Tech made a change.

All those places, have historically had some great times in, in basketball, and should be good.

Um, and especially, I think he's the first two.

Carolina, obviously, but Syracuse as well.

That has been a major, I think, missing element to the league is having Syracuse being really good again, and I think would help so much.

And I do think Jerry McNamara has a great chance to make that happen.

Uh, there was embarrassment at NC State with their coaching change, they might be better because of it.

I love the offseasons for Louisville, Miami, Virginia.

I think, you know, they did what they needed to do in terms of uh either adding players or player retention, and they had very good seasons last year.

Kevin, you mentioned, I think Jay Jay Lucas hire is looking phenomenal so far for Miami, and really excited to see what they put on the floor here again this next year.

They've got places that are gonna spend.

I mean, Louisville is a prime example, but They're gonna, they, Louisville wants to be a top 5 program in basketball, and expects itself to be.

And so they're gonna spend like it, and we'll see if Pat Kelsey can put the product on the floor that gets them there.

They have improved dramatically his first year, and then again, year over year, second year.

So can they keep that going?

Can they take the next step?

Can they be a Sweet 16, Final 8, Final Four kind of team?

We'll find that out.

But, Uh, you know, I think that with the, the amount of underachieving that have been going on in the league, they've set themselves up to turn it around and, and to be one of those leagues that's not getting 5678 bids, but gets 9, 1011.

Especially in this glorious new era with 1000 bids for everybody.

Hooray.

So, that's another rant for another day.

I think maybe we did that last week.

Um, all right, weaknesses, where's the league, uh, weak in, uh, basketball, Kevin?

Yeah, I mean, we, we talked about kind of the, the glut, and that's in football, and that's very real in basketball right now, right?

I don't know how committed Georgia Tech is to winning in basketball.

Boston College is Boston College, Notre Dame is spending every dollar it's got on on its football team, and is struggling under Micah Shrewsbury.

Wake Forest probably is the cheapest basketball roster in the power conferences for next year.

Um, Virginia Tech's kind of motoring along, and, and it, it gets dangerous in a hurry when you've got, like, a bottom six, because you have a couple others fall off, things get difficult, and I think that's been certainly the story for, you know, the 22, the two big kind of Big East basketball schools that ended up joining in Syracuse and Pittsburgh, right?

They, they've been in that bottom tier far too often, and You know, they have to get it right.

I think, as we, as we mentioned, I think with GMAC, it's, it's a little, there's a clear vision than where Pittsburgh, and Pittsburgh ran a basketball coaching search this spring.

They just selected not to end up using it.

They did, they talked to a lot of people, they did a lot of work behind the scenes on who was gonna replace Jeff Capel, and they realized that, there's nobody we can get that's worth us buying out Jeff Capel.

So, if you want another year, Jeff, you can.

Here.

And so, they, they're very much stuck in the mud.

I think they have to get those programs right.

I mean, look, even, even, even Louisville, I mean, Louisville made it to the 2nd weekend, the 1st year being in the ACC under Pitino.

Since then , they have not made a 2nd weekend of the NCAA tournament.

So, the ACC has not gotten the best version of Louisville basketball by any stretch, and I do think, again, like, with, with, with the situation, you know, financially that the ACC is in compared to its peers.

It's really hard to be spending big in both, right?

Like, if you, like, look, Tennessee has a $20 million basketball roster or thereabouts, they're also, I presume, spending quite a bit on their football team, right?

Oh yeah.

If, if Syracuse was going to try to find a way to get to a $20 million basketball roster, I imagine their football roster would suffer quite heavily, right?

And, and, Yeah, I think that's the, with the way that the money continues to escalate, I think it's been challenging for, for some of these ACC schools that are trying to be good at both, to be really good in either.

And I think that's a difficult place to be, right?

If, if Syracuse has the 50th best men's basketball budget for their roster, I mean, they're probably gonna get 50th level results, and that won't make people very happy long term.

Yeah, there's, there's the problem and, and the disconnect between the brands that we know, especially in basketball, compared to what they actually are, you know, nowadays, like, I mean, and you mentioned Georgia Tech.

I, I'd throw Notre Dame in there in particular, like, I mean, that's, there's no way that that program should be as bad as in basketball in the ACC as, as they have been these last, you know, really the last 10 years almost, you know, I mean, yes, there are some, some Heights there in the, in the Mike Bray era and, and certainly, uh, you know, they, they had their moments, but in terms of the consistent success at places like Notre Dame, at Wake Forest, that certainly Syracuse is what we've been talking about.

I mean, there's, there's no reason for, for them to be this bad.

And so, maybe this, maybe there is some, some jolting out, you know, I do think the administrators have made some pretty good hires in terms of the coaches.

They're, they're trying to pull things out, but Um, you know, it is going to come down to that commitment and, um, you know , Kevin, you're, you're spot on in terms of balancing that for a lot of these schools, you know, and I, I, I think it'll, it'll be interesting to see, you know, what, what is, what is it, where is Virginia Tech?

Like, where is that in the hierarchy of, of these programs moving forward?

I think that's something that, you know, the school itself is, is trying to sort out as they make these big investments in football, you know, where does basketball fit into that?

And I think that's, that's a league-wide, you know, issue, you know, that, that the ACC is having.

To sort out and deal with is, yes, we, we want to be football first because we understand where, where the dollars are going and where we get that return on investment.

Um, but it's just such a rich history in, in terms of basketball that I think a lot of fans are gonna be, uh, a little bit upset if you go, you go a couple of years without missing, you know, missing the NCAA tournament.

Um, that, that's a big issue, you know, in the ACC territory and something that, uh, both the conference office and a lot of these schools are, are having to sort out with in terms of where we actually direct those investments.

No doubt about it, that that that's part of being.

In the middle, as we've kind of labeled the ACC here, um, Is you, where do you allocate your resources?

Where can you succeed?

And if you try to do a little of everything, you probably do a lot of nothing.

Um, you know, I'm thinking about the Bay Area schools, Stanford and Calal.

They're, they're just kind of there so far in football and basketball, both.

They're, they're not NCAA tournament teams in basketball.

They're not factoring into the football races.

They may pull a few upsets, perhaps partially due to teams that are jet-lagged from flying to the West Coast, but they're just kind of there.

Florida State right now is treading water.

They, I, I think Vuk Lou Lou's higher in basketball could turn out good.

Uh, they got much better as the season went along last year.

But, again, how much are they gonna donate or devote in terms of financial resources at a football-centric school?

And you've, you've got the Notre Dame, you guys mentioned, Pitt, Wake Forest, um, Virginia Tech, those, they've had success in basketball, but can they have it and still put all the eggs in that they wanna put in, in football?

Those are tough decisions that The administration's gonna have to make, and a lot of them are probably just gonna say, we're all in on football, we'll ride it out and just see where we land in basketball.

So, that's definitely a sign of the times, uh, there.

All right, uh, this, I threw this one in cause it's, uh, something I, I would, I would throw in.

Uh, what's the tentpole Olympic sport?

We are gonna touch on that stuff a little bit, sorry, in this little series that we're doing.

Uh, the answer for the ACC is almost all of them.

It's a phenomenal Olympic sport conference.

It was already really good.

Adding Stanford and Cal made it that much better.

Outside of like a hockey, which they don't play other than BC, uh, and Notre Dame, they, they, it is, they're, they're good at almost everything.

And we're gonna see, I think they have 3 of the top 6 right now in the Learfield Cup standings, um, 7 of the top 20, 6 of the top 13, Stanford's on top and may well get that crown back this year .

They, um, they, they won it like every year for like 25 years in a row, the pandemic came.

Things changed.

Texas started winning it.

Right now, Stanford is on top, and I would be kind of surprised if they don't end up winning the Learfield Cup.

So, uh, I, you know, I want those sports to continue to succeed.

I want them to be funded, and in the ACC they're in really good shape there.

All right guys, uh, how secure is the commissioner Jim Phillips?

Wonderful man, great guy.

How does he stand as commissioner, Brian, what do you think?

Well, massive upset there for you, not, not to just specifically say swimming for the ACC, uh, your, your background swimming, absolutely, yes, 1st and 2nd, Virginia Stanford.

Um, as for Jim , you know, like I, I, I think he's well respected around the league.

I think he's, he's finally found his, you know, sea legs and not dealing with, with lawsuits and all the craziness going on, you know, I, I think it's much more of a I don't wanna say fully kumbaya type of league, but, uh, I, I think he, he's definitely made strides there.

And, um, I, I know there are certain segments of certain fan bases that, um, you know, do not, uh, appreciate his commissionership, but I think on, on the whole, uh, things, things have been pretty stable and, and certainly given the, the external, uh, challenges the, the conference office has faced, I, I think he's navigated them, you know, pretty.

Well, um, and certainly put, put the ACC in, in a better position to succeed than, than say, uh, early in his tenure and even 5, 10 years ago, you know, where, where the conference was.

So I think it's, uh, it's pretty positive.

Um, you know, I don't think it's, uh, they're, they're ready to, uh, to, to run him out of the building.

Uh, I don't think they're just everybody in, in, in the entire league and given their, you know, you're talking about schools from all over the country and, in vastly different positions in terms of what they want.

Yeah, you know, there, there might be some, some Florida State fans, some Miami fans, some Clemson fans that think Tim Phillips is kind of holding the ACC back a little bit, um, but I, I think in terms of actually managing such a diverse, you know, cast of characters, if you will, uh, in terms of these schools, you know, small private schools, uh, big state institutions, uh, you know, schools in, in major metropolitan areas and others in, in very small, uh, you know, college towns, like it's, it, it can be a difficult league to actually manage and, and get your hands around and Uh, he, he, he's a people person and, uh, I think, you know, he has connected with a lot of people throughout the AC ACC footprint and done a pretty good job of that and, and, um, you know, there's, there's certainly some, some challenging waters ahead and that's, that's gonna be the ultimate test of him as a commissioner, but, uh, I, I would say overall pretty positive and, and, uh, moving forward, I, I think you can understand where, where the league is and, and be happy with, uh, having him as, as their commissioner.

Yeah, I don't know if I would say he's a dying breed, but I definitely think you feel the transition in what the resumes look like for people in these roles, and it is not what Jim Phillips' resume is now.

Jim Phillips is a lifetime college athletics administrator.

He got Northwestern going, uh, he was the AD there for most of my time at Northwestern, did a phenomenal job.

Like, that's not the Brett Yourmark, Tony Pettitti, you know, even AD searches now, I think you see this, you know, with the, the Miami AD job, like, people want business guys, they want revenue generators, uh, etc.

etc.

So , um, I, I think that is probably the, the risk for, for Jim, is probably that things kind of come around on him from, from that standpoint, and we say, we need someone who's who's aggressive, who's think, but quite frankly.

To me, like, it's, it's exactly what you need and want, and like, I, I think for, for college sports, it's good to have a voice who's like a college sports lifer in this thing, and he certainly is that.

Yeah, I mean, I, I think he's done very well to navigate through tremendous upheaval, you know, when it looked like the league was fragile, like it could be poached, he He managed to convince people on expansion, which I think did need to happen.

And yes, you can still say Stanford and Cal are not adding a lot in terms of the revenue sports.

I still think you had to get them and get SMU.

I think that's a net positive.

Uh, I think, again, I, I'm not a fan of the uneven revenue distribution, but it's probably a step that they had to do.

The, um, Uh, you know, the, the, the fact that he can still keep a room together that was as fractious as the ACC's was, uh, speaks, I think, well for his interpersonal relationships and, and, and the personal dynamics involved there.

So, I, I agree.

I mean, look, yes, we need, we need more lifetime administrators, I think, with decision-making input, as opposed to less and more guys that are like, You know, here's where your profit margin needs to be better.

I , I'm, I'm tired of those guys.

I, I don't see them making the product better.

Sorry, at least not right now.

Um, all right.

Which school swings the biggest stick within the league?

Who's, who's the boss, uh, Kevin?

It's a great question, because, you know, I think the loudest are certainly the, the Florida states and, and the Miami's, but I do think that Carolina and Duke will have a lot to say, particularly Carolina as, as we head towards, towards realignment.

I know there's been a lot of talk that Carolina could be maybe the best asset still available because of the brand, because of the Uh, major markets it's near, etc.

So, uh, I do think in a lot of ways, if, if, if Carolina can start winning, it's certainly, it will, it will, it will swing a, it will swing a bigger stick, but it just carries, carries a pretty big one now, I would say.

Yeah, I mean, if we asked this question 15 years ago, you, you would have automatically gone to, you know, Duke of North Carolina.

Just, just the tobacco road, you know, center of gravity in, in this league was so strong, but it, it definitely has shifted.

Um, and, it's gonna be curious to see for, for, from my perspective, like where, where things go from here, you know, uh, Clemson's president was hugely influential in the, in the league, uh, in, in the sea.

and just kind of general national matters.

Uh, he, he's retiring.

Obviously, you have a changeover at Miami, um, in terms of that administration, new AD is gonna come in, you know, who, who's speaking up for, uh, Miami, uh, Florida State, Probably loud, the most loud, uh, program, if you will, it would be Florida State, just in terms of, uh, the saber rattling that they've done and, um, how aggressive they've been.

Um, but, you know, you, you probably could, could circle those three as, as kind of the, the, the, the focus, especially in football, but Um, do not overlook, uh, certainly the influence of, of Duke and North Carolina, both historically and just like, you know, just in general, I think, um, recently, you know, they, they've, they've been speaking up in these matters.

They've maybe been more of a follower than, uh, than a true leader, but, um, they have some, some significant sway, uh, in, in the ACC and I think that's gonna continue to be.

Case.

And, um, you know, I think there are others.

I mean , I, I don't think, uh, SMU is necessarily taken a backseat, uh, despite uh coming into the league.

Um, they're probably a little bit more quieter about things that they, they, they want to accomplish, but, um, you know, they're, they're, they're not gonna be told no, uh, by anybody, uh, given the, the folks at that school, and I think they're probably gonna be even more aggressive moving forward.

I think you're gonna see.

Certainly some, some leadership transitions at other schools, uh, you know, Virginia Tech is, is going through a wholesale, uh, leadership change.

How does that impact, uh, their status within the league?

So , um, very interesting, uh, kind of times for the ACC, but, uh, I, I would definitely circle Clemson, Miami, Florida State as kind of the, the ringleaders, uh, of everybody, and then, uh, Duke, North Carolina being kind of the, the quiet partners in, in that, uh, in terms of running the league.

Yeah, I think that's a pretty good um character characterization of it.

We do have some major AD transition there.

Bubba Cunningham is uh on the way out at North Carolina.

Dan Radakovich is on the way out at Miami.

He's mentioned, uh, Virginia Tech as well.

Um, you know, in terms of like the stability there, I think that like Carla Williams is a very important voice at, uh, Virginia, a place where right now, their athletics is doing really good things in a lot of areas.

Um, I, I, you know, Miami, to me, has the, the opportunity, I think, to, to really continue to exert itself there.

I, I expect them to be the best team in football again this year.

I think they're really good in basketball.

Uh, they've got, depending how the, the transition goes from Rakovic, uh, they've got an incredibly energetic, persuasive, business-oriented president, um, who wants to, to make an impact there.

So I, I think Miami is kinda The school to watch in terms of are they going to move the center of gravity off of tobacco road and perhaps be a little bit more forceful here.

We'll see, we'll find that out.

All right, last couple of things here.

How many CFP bids will the ACC get in 2026, Brian?

That's, that's a big question.

I, I think Miami, you can pencil them in right away, you know, just in terms of how top-heavy they are, and I think what they have returning just in terms of skill position, talent, having a quarterback that has won the league already, you know, I, I, I would definitely put, uh, Miami in there for sure, especially given their schedule.

The question is who can join them?

And I, I think there are a number of candidates.

Out there from the ACC, it wouldn't shock me if, if this is a, a two-bid league, uh, to the CFP and, uh, whether that's, you know, SMU, whether, uh, somebody, you know, returns to form like, uh, uh, Louisville rises up and, and ends up, uh, making the CFP.

I, I think two bids kind of is where the ACC should be, um, going into the 2026 season, um, just in terms of who's joining the, the Hurricanes.

That, that's gonna be the big question, uh, really hovering over the rest of, uh, rest of the conference play.

Yeah, I was, I was just looking at the, the odds, and the best odds for anyone other than Miami to make the playoffs are is SMU at 440, which is not optimistic.

I do think you're right, Brian, that like, look, there's a lot of good, and you'd like to think somebody finds a way to, to kind of cobble together an 11 and 1 season and sneak in on the kind of the back end of the playoffs, but.

I, I don't know that I feel confident in saying that there's a second bid here, so I, I would lean one at the moment.

Yeah, I, I think they can get to, uh, and I, I think that the Notre Dame games will be immensely important.

Miami plays Notre Dame, SMU plays Notre Dame, both those in November.

So those, I think loom large.

Uh, Louisville's on its 4th.

Straight transfer one-year quarterback.

They actually, Lincoln Kienholz, who's the backup at to Julian saying at Ohio State would be more than one year, uh, theoretically, but they, they have been in quarterback rotation.

I think if they get that one right, they have a chance, and then, You know, Clemson, can they, can they put the formula back together and get it right.

Um, new offensive coordinator, Chad Morris, Back to the Future, uh, there.

So, I'm gonna say they've got a, a genuine shot at 2.

Depending how hard they have to swim upstream against the 4th and 5th teams, probably from the SEC and the Big 10.

Well, it certainly helps too that like, you know, the SEC is moving to 9 conference games this year.

You know, I think the Big 10, the top of the Big 10 plays each other a lot more often than they have, say, in the past couple of years.

Like, schedule-wise, if you're just kind of looking objectively, you know, across the country.

I think the ACC could be a beneficiary of things.

And, and I think it doesn't help anything in terms of the Big 12, you know, really, you know, beating each other up, if you, if you will.

Just the margins in that league are so small and you, you look at the Texas Tech, not having their quarterback going into the season.

So like, there are external factors, I think, beyond just the level of play in the ACC that could help it, you know, really get over the hump and get those two teams.

OK, here's the money question.

In 5 years, the ACC will be Blank, fill it in, Kevin.

It will look a lot different, I think.

I, I don't , I, I do think that around that kind of 2030 timeline, it, it's going to be harder to kind of keep the whole ship together.

I do think the ACC.

Well, still, like, I don't think it's going the way of the Pac-12.

Like, I think the ACC will, will certainly exist, and I do think there's actually some decent backfill candidates now emerging with the way that South Florida's moving.

Maybe Memphis at some point gets the, finally gets the call.

They've been the bridesmaid for years.

Um, maybe UConn if football continues.

To, to, to trend in a positive direction there.

Oh my God, there's 19 million heartbeats just fluttered in the Northeast.

The UConn fans are insane.

They, that's totally getting clipped, um, but yes, yeah, look, I, I, I, I do think it'll look different, but I do think, I do think it'll, it will exist.

It will probably just have solidified itself even further as a second tier power conference, whatever that means.

Yeah, you know, I, I think limping along would , would kind of be my, my phrase if, if you want, you know, in terms of, look, they, they have a lot of programs that have agitated to go elsewhere, whether that's the Big 10, the SEC, whether they have a home and whatever, you know, potential leagues are out there that could offer them, them more money, um, you know, certainly.

Programs like Miami and North Carolina, we've already mentioned, um, Florida State is certainly agitated and tried to sue themselves out of the, out of the league already.

Um, you know, whether they ultimately follow through on that down the road, we'll, we'll see, but, uh, obviously, Duke is out there as well as a, a potential marquee addition for, for some leagues, so.

Yeah, you gotta contend with that, uh, certainly if you're the ACC.

Yes, there are some, some big backfield candidates, you know, like you, you kind of wonder, you know, would you just, you know, straight up merge with the Big 12 at some point, you know, in terms of kind of being the best of the rest, you know, and kind of creating a, a super conference of, of your own , um, that is separate from the Big 10.

In the SEC, but, uh, still has enough, uh, cachet and marquee programs to where you can kind of cobble things together.

You know, I think it's , it's a difficult position for the ACC to be in.

The, the good news for them is they, they at least have the connection with ESPN, which is obviously, um, you know, certainly behind the scenes, played a big role in terms of conference realignment.

And, uh, you know, I, I think ESPN would, would move to kind of protect the ACC.

Uh, with whatever goes down, comes down the pipe, uh, moving forward with conference realignment.

And so I think that's, that's probably a positive, you know, in, in, in their, uh, in their corner, if you will, um , whether that ultimately ends up holding true and what we see in terms of the ACC, um, kind of remains to be seen, but, um, definitely a fraught time, uh, for the league going into the 2030s and all the changes that could happen to college athletics in terms of being impacted the most, you'd probably say the ACC, um, is kind of right there first line in terms of possibly getting raided.

They are certainly on, on the fault line if there is a next round of, of realignment, and.

I, I, for some, for reasons I can't even fully explain, I'm holding out hope that the leaders of college sports who have let me down 9 million times will actually not blow everything up and completely nuke the entire landscape.

If they do, which you wouldn't put it past them, then North Carolina is absolutely, that is the first draft pick.

They are going to whatever.

If there's a super collection entity that exists, of 40 schools, whatever, 50, um, North Carolina is the first draft pick out of the one, beyond the ones that are already in the core of the Big 10 and the SEC.

Virginia is gonna be right there.

Uh, and then you figure out what you're going to do with the Dukes, Florida State, Miami, Clemson.

There's another reason where Miami helping itself recently could very much change its future trajectory there.

I, you know, it's very possible that that 5 or 6 schools that I just mentioned are not part of a future ACC.

And everybody else that's still there is, or perhaps we even go back to an old Big East.

I mean, if the whole thing blows up, a possible merger with the Big 12, yeah, I think that's, that sort of scenario exists.

Or if you can, you just go in and poach the eastern segment of the Big 12 and take them to your league, you take West Virginia, you take Cincinnati, you take Central Florida, whoever else.

So, they're on the fault line.

They're the most likely to be hurt.

By a major realignment, but I don't think they'd be killed by it.

That's my prognostication.

No freaking idea what these folks are gonna come up with.

Well, it's also different nowadays for the ACC.

Like, you know, like North Carolina and Duke used to be tied at the hip together.

Virginia, Virginia Tech used to be tied at the hip, you know, literally that was an issue, you know, in, in certain rounds of conference realignment in terms of splitting up some of these schools, I think they are much more likely to go their own way and look out for their own.

Own self-interest, you know, in a number of situations around this league than, than that has ever been the case, you know, in , in terms of ACC history.

You know, you would have said, all right, Florida State and Miami, you know, they're, they're probably a package deal somewhere.

Um, I, I don't think that's necessarily the case anymore.

If Miami can, can get on the raft boat on, on the way out, um, they're, they're gonna take it and they're gonna leave whoever else behind.

That's, that's probably the, the biggest change.

Uh, I think moving forward into the 2030s is that, uh, some of these programs that you look at as historical rivals, look at as, as being really tied together potentially, you know, by, uh, certain, uh, legislatures, uh, in various states.

I, I don't think that's no longer the case, and I think that's probably the, probably put the ACC in a little bit more tenuous position than it was, um, say, 5, 1015 years ago.

Yeah, I think that that's a good point.

I'm glad you made it because the Yeah, the legislative ties that bind could be untethered.

Uh, heck, they're redoing all the voting districts anyway, you know, they, I mean, this fall right in with it.

You know what, we're uncoupling Virginia and Virginia Tech.

Sorry about it.

That's the way it goes.

Um, anyway, that 5 years from now, we'll see.

I'm sure we'll be pulling up this clip as evidence that we were.

Extremely insightful into what was going to happen.

Uh, one other topic, non-ACC, and then we will get to a great, uh, closing segment here.

But, uh, the Nebraska College Sports Commission arbitration situation.

The ruling, I think is expected to come down this week.

Nobody's sure when, may not happen, but, but I think the belief is it's coming this week.

This is, could be fairly significant.

Does the CSC have any teeth or not, is the question there.

Uh, I'm, I'm not asking anybody to predict what's gonna happen, cause that's like trying to predict an NCAA ruling.

You're stupid if you try.

But Brian, how important is this for the viability of what came out of the house settlement?

Well, it's, it's massive, you know, I think everybody kind of circled, all right, who's gonna be that first case?

Who's gonna be the one to challenge the system and obviously it is Nebraska in this case and look, this, this arbitration process was put into place by , by the lawyers of the house case, like this was, this was designed to be the, the test, uh , kind of, kind of ring of honor, uh, to where everybody could go in and, and, and battle it out, uh, involving plenty of, of legal fees and, um, it is going to be a huge Test case in terms of how you pay rosters moving forward and whether this ultimately ends up being, being upheld.

There's state laws that are gonna be impacted in this particular case with Nebraska .

Like if this had been a, a, a Duke or some other school in a, in a different jurisdiction , like there's, there's even other layers that could be added on to, um, this particular case in terms of actually challenging, uh, you know, the, the, uh, tenets of the CSC agreement.

And uh that's not even agreed to by, by schools at this point.

Um, you have certain schools that have signed on to, uh, the participation agreement, others that have not, um, and a lot of them are very interested in looking at how this case is going to be treated.

And, um, it, it, it definitely plays a huge role in terms of not just these Nebraska players getting paid, but for, for how you build rosters above the cap.

You know, this is going to be a serious test and a serious Challenge to how schools do that, um, both on an actual like day to day, like, here's what we're actually giving out to our athletes and also like when you're talking with uh, uh, a quarterback or you're talking about, uh, you know, landing a power forward, you know, how, how are you going to actually say, this is what you're gonna end up getting paid and um this is going to be a massive test case for the system and it's gonna be interesting to see how everybody reacts to whatever the ruling ends up being.

I don't know, I, I'm sort of mildly skeptical.

This feels like I don't know, it feels like we've stopped 1 out of 100 runners here, uh, and, and caught, like, I, I, I just don't know how we live in a world where most basketball teams are committing 10+ million dollars to their roster .

Most football teams are, are certainly a significant portion of football teams are at the 20-ish cap already themselves, like, it just, I don't see how all of this is getting put to a stop just because Nebraska loses an arbitration case of like a specific loophole with which they tried to pay over the cap.

I do think it's important again for, for the people writing these contracts and for for agents, like that, yeah, all right, this is the first real test of like, all right, this is what you can't do if, if the, if, if the CSC wins the arbitration battle, or it is, you know, even more emboldening if they just, we can do whatever we want, but I don't know.

There, there, there's a part of me that thinks that the, the CSC, at least from a cap enforcement lens, is already relatively toothless at this point.

Yeah, I, I will say, given the amount of energy, money, brainpower, and everything that went into creating the house settlement, and the CSC and NILG.

If this ends up being completely useless, it's the biggest failure in the history of college sports.

That's all.

I mean, it would just be a colossal miscalculation of the market and market forces , and what schools are willing to do to get players.

And, you know, this is one of the endarounds.

We're gonna get Play Fly Sports to pay these guys.

We're gonna get Learfield to pay these guys.

And that's what, that's the narrow scope of what's trying to be.

reined in or adjudicated here, but the bigger picture is, yes, do we have a cap or not?

And so far, we have no cap.

And where this thing goes, I don't know.

I, I agree with you, Kevin.

I'm not sure a victory here completely changes the day, but a loss is bad, because then it's like, all right, we got nothing.

The CSC has nothing.

And Brian Seeley is sitting there saying, I gave up a decent job to do this, to work with these freaks in college sports.

Are you kidding me?

So, that's what's on the table there.

We'll see what comes out of it when it happens this week , if it happens this week.

All right, last thing, gentlemen.

As you know.

Fall has many, there are many rites of fall, turning leaves, pumpkins, college football, and also the fat Bear Week, right, in Alaska.

Well, well, well, well, spring, a rite of spring in Wisconsin.

Fat Bird Week.

Yes, birds can get fat too.

They can plump up, uh, you know, whether it's with eggs or just eating a bunch of food, I, I'm not sure.

But the Natural Resources Foundation of Wisconsin wants you to vote during this Fat Bird Week on the fattest birds , and they got a bracket.

It's a complete rip-off of Fat Bear Week.

But it's awesome.

Uh , we have, we have like an 88 round or 88, competitor, uh, bracket here.

We've already had, uh, 22 results.

The Chunggu Cardinal beat the massive Meadowlark, 51% to 49%.

And the ginormous goldfinch, which is truly ginormous, you gotta see the pictures, uh, defeated the bluebird couple who let themselves go.

A very clever captioning by our people here.

The current vote is the wood duck with a dad bod against the whopping widgeon.

I've already voted for the dad bob duck.

He looks like I do .

He definitely needs to hit the gym, but, uh, we have got a fat bird week.

Is this better or worse than Fat Bear Week?

Where does this, where would you rank Fat Bird Week?

It's a knockoff, but it's pretty clever.

Somebody, anybody, I mean, I, I, I, I just did not know birds could get this fat.

Although I will say this.

I mean, the pictures do it justice, but, like, I need, we need to incorporate some video into this.

I, I need to see how they fly, because I need to know how the ginormous goldfinch, who, as you said, is ginormous, how that thing's flapping away.

I mean, I, I'm looking back at history, uh, last year's winner, the spherical white-throated sparrow, I mean, I have no idea how that thing's staying in the air.

We, we need that guy from sports science, you know, who always did the sports science segments, uh, on ESPN and like SportsCenter.

He needs to be breaking this down.

Like this is, this is what he was designed to do, like, he has a 4-foot wingspan , but he weighs, you know, like X X amount of, you know, like and show, show me the flight paths of some of these birds, like truly the, the, the vote that's up now, like those ducks, if they are ducks, I'm, I'm not so sure at this point.

But then they, they look like they could house, you know, a full loaf at this point.

Uh, so, you know, kudos to, uh, to the state of Wisconsin for, for doing this.

I, I think we need more of these.

I think we need to, to go regional, like, uh, like, are the birds in the south a little bit, uh, a little bit heftier than some of those birds in the north, or, or where, where, where's the beef, uh, in this one?

So, uh, kudos to the state of Wisconsin.

I, I, I need more of this.

I, I want more of this, uh, give me more of this.

Yeah, yeah, the, the, the other first round matchup is the jiggly junko against the tubby tree swallow.

But again, today's, if you wanna vote, and, and everybody should, Natural Resources Foundation of Wisconsin, uh, just, just Google Wisconsin Fat Bird Week.

I'm sure it'll get you there.

Woodchuck, Wood duck with a dad bod versus whopping widgeon, uh, may the fattest bird win.

All right, that's clearly enough for this show.

Uh, we will be back next week.

We're gonna look at the Big 10.

So join us then.

Thanks for listening.

Give us a review, subscribe, watch us on YouTube, and we'll talk to you later.