Lakers Sale Drama Gets Messier & More Offseason Trades

Welcome to Sports Illustrated's NBA podcast.

We are Open floor.

I'm Liam McEwen and I'm back with Blake Silverman to discuss all the latest news, rumors, and transactions around the association.

In the last week, we've had another, another round of news and trades and things of that nature.

We actually didn't get a real trade that matters.

Uh, we're really excited to discuss that.

But first, we wanted to start with the Lakers drama that has unfolded even in the wake of last week's very, very big Lakers drama.

For those who may not be caught up, the Lakers were sold by Dodgers owner Mark Walter for $12.

5 billion about one week ago at this time, to an ownership group led by Bob Iger and Joshua Kushner.

Such a massive transaction with so many moving parts was bound to create complications of varying sizes.

Us on the public side of things, we'll probably not even know 10% of those problems.

But one of those problems has leaked into the open arena of public opinion, and it involves the Buss family.

On Monday, it was revealed that the Buss family had voted by a majority vote to sell their stake in the Lakers.

The Buss family owns a 17.8% stake in the franchise their father, Jerry founded after they sold to Mark Walter last year.

Uh, on Monday, they announced that they had voted to sell that stake.

On Monday, they announced they had voted to sell that stake.

With 5 of the 6 bus siblings involved in the family trust voting to sell, and they all voted yes.

But there was one glaring absence from the voting process, Jeanie Buss.

Jeanie Buss abstained from voting to sell the shares, and she, as you might know , is probably the most well-known of the Buss siblings.

She's been in charge of the Lakers completely since 2017 and was in charge of their business side of things starting in 2013 after Jerry Buss passed.

Um, she is contesting the decision to sell, as Chris Mannix reported on Tuesday with a letter from Buss's lawyer.

Jeannie's siblings believe they have a right to sell based on a provision that was included in the deal to sell it to Walter originally last year.

Jeannie is arguing in court, or will be arguing in court, it would seem, that they can't vote to do so without her approval based on a 2017 court ruling that said that they can't sell without the say-so of Jeannie, Janie, and Joey Buss.

It's quite a lot, and neither Blake or I have a JD.

So we're not gonna get into the legalese of it all.

We wanna give our legal team a break and we also don't wanna confuse anybody who's listening to us, but we can discuss the varying consequences that can come from such a messy ownership decision.

And what it, the biggest question to me is, well, overall, what is it going to mean for the Lakers?

I think the biggest question right off the bat is, is the Buss family still going to be involved?

Is Jeanie Buss going to remain the governor of the team, which she had a deal in place, the Buss family retained the over 15% of their stake, which is required by the NBA for Someone to operate as the team's governor, and Jeannie worked out a deal where she would remain in that role, which her father Jerry named her as his successor following his death in 2013, and obviously, if the Buss family sells their shares, Jeannie couldn't be governor anymore.

She is arguing that based on a court order in 2017, like you mentioned too, they can't do that without her buy-in.

Um, so, uh, but based on this precision in the, uh , sale to Walter, the other bus siblings think that they have the ability to do so, so it's gonna be a ton that's presumably gonna be worked out in court.

That we won't uh get into too deep, but after that, whether Jeannie is going to remain in a forward facing role with the Lakers.

If she's not going to do that, like, what does that mean for someone like Rob Polinka, who has a long standing relationship with Jeannie and the Buss family?

Does it mean anything for the roster?

We talked about it last week when the sale from Walter to Iger and Kushner was first reported, uh, neither of us think that this will have much of any impact on the Lakers on the floor.

It shouldn't, it's worth noting that Lukaancic has, this will be the 5th ownership group that he is a part of from his time with the Mavericks, from Cuban to the Adelsons and Patrick Dumont, then to the Lakers with the buses, then Walter, now Eger and Kushner, so it's a lot.

Lucas said that he's excited to work with the new ownership group.

I don't think it means a ton.

I think you can go to 2 years from now when Luca can become a free agent, if he chooses to opt out of his massive player option, I don't think it will have anything to do with the ownership group.

I think it will be strictly due to basketball reasons, if this new iteration of the Lakers can't put a contender on the floor, and he wants to go off to greener pastures elsewhere and compete for a title, that would be, that would be totally separate.

I think the biggest question is, if Jeannie is no longer the governor, what does it mean for Rob Polinka?

He'll probably have more eyes on him anyway with a new ownership group after he retooled this roster, LeBron James leaves, you sign Austin Reeves to a max deal, make a big trade for Walker Kessler, and hit the free agent market to round out the roster with some nice additions, but what if, what if it doesn't work in A stacked Western Conference against two powers like the Thunder and the Spurs, could there be changes in the front office as a fallout from that?

It's all interesting, it's like a wild version of HBO's succession, like Christian Kristen Wong wrote on Sports Illustrated.

com, which was a great comparison, and I would love to watch a documentary or some sort of a show about this one day, but it's, it seems like it's going to be a long battle, um, that we'll find out who, if the buses stay involved eventually.

They just gotta bring back Showtime.

That's what everybody wants.

That at least one HBO employee who listens to this podcast, you know what the people want, and it's to bring back Showtime in the modern era.

Uh, the Palinka of it all does seem to be the biggest consequence.

Um, Sam.

And Dan Weike reported for the Athletic on Wednesday that their multiple sources told them there isn't much anticipation that this whole um kerfluffle will affect the Walter sale to Kushner and Eiger, so there won't be any.

You know, significant ramifications, but Polinka might, you know, this might really affect his job status.

At the very least, it will affect his job security, because Polinka is Jeanie Buss's guy.

She's the GM that she hired when she forced out her brother and Mitch Kupchak back in 2017 in what ended up leading to said court order that she's using to contest the sale now.

And You know, Polinka was a former agent.

He wasn't really, he had front office experience in the sense that obviously agent, mhm, exactly.

He really, you know, had no real experience.

It was a questionable, you know, it felt like a questionable hire at the time, and it's, I would say he's done a good enough job to justify keeping his role for sure.

I think whether LeBron would have gone to the Lakers no matter what, is certainly a question that is fair to ask, but ultimately, what matters is results, and the results are that since Plinka took over, the Lakers got LeBron, they won a championship, and they flailed in between those two things, but those two things are ultimately what matters.

Um, that's not a body of work strong enough, I don't think that.

Guarantees that he's going to be safe if his biggest advocate in Jeanie Buss is out of the picture when it comes to a decision-making, uh, when it comes to decision-making capabilities.

And in particular, as you highlighted, Polinka did a lot of work this offseason, and he presumably did all that work with the sign-off of the guy who used to own the team.

And the new guys might have different thoughts on how wise it was to spend that kind of money on Walker Kessler, or, you know, whether Quentin Grimes was really the best use of that money, but I would anticipate that this ownership change is going to take a while, and it's going to be probably at least a year until Eiger and Kushner, based on timelines that we've seen previously, it's gonna take at least a year for Kushner and Eiger to really start making big decisions to institute their vision of what the team looks like, which means that it feels still needs to be approved by the board of governors.

By the way, I think that process when the transition from the Buss family to the Walt, uh, to Mark Walter took like Uh, a matter of months, so we still have some time ahead of us.

Yeah, if I recall right, it was about 6 months from when we first heard of the agreement to when it was officially approved by the board of governors, and that obviously was a deal that had been going on for a while.

There were a lot of people knew it was coming, this deal, people found out within a 4-day span, reportedly, that it was coming down the pipe.

So, it does feel like this year is a tryout of sorts for Rob Polenko, because he Again, we don't know how much of a, you know, a role he played in the Lakers' decision to not heavily pursue LeBron James is how I would frame it.

They didn't tell him they didn't want him.

But they also didn't really indicate that they really wanted him, which is saying goodbye without saying goodbye, and you don't wanna be the guy who told LeBron to pack his bags and take off.

But that's more or less what the Lakers did, and that's more or less what Rob Polinka did, and that, and then what he did after that was completely retool this roster to make it more of a fit around Lukadoncic, to add players who accentuated his strengths while covering up his weaknesses in a way that they missed last year, in a way that LeBron didn't necessarily to, yeah, the way that In the way that LeBron didn't necessarily do, he's obviously a tremendously talented player, but Luka Doncic doesn't need a third point guard out there when he has Austin Reeves already.

He needs someone who can shoot 40% from the corner and guard their yard and grab the, you know, defend the best opponent, and LeBron lobs, yeah, and catch lobs.

Very important to be able to catch lobs.

LeBron can still do that, but all that other stuff, it's not so much his forte anymore, and it never really was in terms of that being his isolated role.

So, Polinka went and did what I thought was a pretty smart, well-executed series of trades and signings.

The Walker Kessler deal was expensive.

They signed him to a contract that'll pay him over $30 million annually upon giving up multiple draft picks for him.

But he's a guy who lobs, and he catches lobs, you know, that's important, and I mean, you wanna talk about a tremendous upgrade over at the center position over last year.

DeAndre Ayton, when he is dominating, when he is one of his various, um, personalities that plays well, was, you know, a good fit, but when he wasn't playing well, he was, his, the bottom out was brutal, and getting Kessler alone makes that a successful offseason for the Lakers, I would say in general, but How this works, how these pieces fit together is going to be probably The most dramatic factor in whether or not Rob Polinka keeps his job.

Like, the new owners could come in and be like, we want our own guy, and that might just be that.

Like, that has happened to much better general managers and much worse general managers than Rob Polinka.

But If the Lakers are a legit contender this year, if they can claim like the 3rd seed, because I don't think anybody's expecting them to run with the OKCs and the Spurs, uh, I don't think anybody's expecting them to run with OKC in San Antonio in the regular season.

But if Luca can maybe win his first MVP or at least get consideration and the Lakers play well, and it's clear that the moves that Polinka made, the roster decisions that he made, were paying dividends, it becomes a lot harder to get rid of him.

On the other end of that, if, if things go south, I think it could get murky pretty quick.

Um, like you said, this process, this transition, this Uh, assume legal battle that the buses are going to be in, whether they're still involved , will take time.

So that gives Polinka some runway, like, I don't think he's, he's gonna get the time to see if this new look team that he built specifically for the superstar guard that he traded for works.

That said, if it goes south.

You gave up a lot of draft capital, 21st round picks, 21st round pick swaps, and signed Walker Kessler to a huge contract.

This team is going to be difficult to break apart, uh, like , this is, this is what, what it's gonna be for the next couple seasons at least, and what if it's just not good enough?

We are both insinuating that.

The Lakers roster on paper, can't really compete with the Thunder or the Spurs.

I think that's a huge challenge, it's one that the entire league is trying to figure out, or at least the entire Western Conference, like the Knicks figured out the Spurs in the in the NBA Finals, but being where the Lakers sit as trying to get over these two behemoths, like, what if it's, what if it's not good enough?

What do they do?

Um, I mean, I think.

Obviously, this team is brand new, we haven't even seen it on the floor together, they're gonna get some time to see if it all works out, but If it's an underwhelming season, or in a year from now, especially, like, in 207, 28, if they fail to get out of the first round, or in the play or something like that.

I think it's gonna be really, really difficult, and you already gave up control of your draft.

So, um, there could be some changes, it could be based on ownership, it could be based on performance, it could be based on a combination of both, which is the most likely outcome.

Um, but yeah, this, this all just makes the Lakers even more interesting than than they already are, which is, which is saying much cause they are still the Worthy of a Showtime, the Showtime show, like you insinuated earlier.

If I were Rob Polinka, I would just print out every single online and newspaper article that called the Luka Dacic trade one of the craziest in NBA history, and just like tape it around the ownership walls for when Iger and Kushner show up.

Because it doesn't matter.

Does how much credit do you give Rob Polinka for it though?

Like, do you, or that's what I was about to get into is that it doesn't matter that anybody would have said yes.

He was the one who said yes, and I think if you actually are really looking at it there .

It is kind of a weird argument to be made that the trade doesn't happen without Rob Polinka because Nico Harrison was only comfortable doing this in this way because he knew Rob Polinka personally from when he was a Nike exec.

So it is a little bit like, you know, Would this, like, if, if I don't know, Brad Stevens was in charge of the Lakers instead of the Celtics, like, would they, they have Luka Jacic?

Probably not.

I don't know if Nico Harrison cold calls Brad Stevens, which is actually, we're, we're making a great pitch for Rob Polinka right now, I would actually think.

Yeah, I mean, it's similar to me when you put, like, give Polinka a feather in his cap for the Luca trade, it's like, hey, I'm not, I don't give Nico Harrison much credit for drafting Cooper Flagg, number one, like, you or I would have done that, like, same thing with with Wendy in San Antonio, but I think, I think where Polinka should get credit is And I meant to point this out earlier, but I think he's doing the right thing and catering this Lakers roster specifically around Luka Dacic.

I think when you have a player like that, you put the right pieces around them, make sure they have complimentary folks who Can help out on defense, because we know that's not Lucas's strong suit, can be a good pick and roll partner, space the floor, um, it would be a good rim runner, catch lobs, everything like that.

So I think that's the right thing.

I think his process is fully correct in this, it's just.

Is this roster good enough, which is a really hard thing to accomplish that we'll see play out.

What is good enough?

Like if we're accepting that the Thunder and the Spurs are.

You know, the two best teams in the NBA who aren't defending champs, and on a, you know, nightly 82 game basis, they are probably the two best, like the two teams to beat in the NBA.

If everybody accepts that, then what, where, where, what, what would be an acceptable Lakers finish to be like, oh well, Rob Polinka did his job.

Like, is it, like I mentioned the #3 seed where they push whoever's #2 to a close second round series, and then they, they, they're out.

Is it the only thing that, you know, qualifies the season as a success is in a conference finals run is like the bare minimum .

Do they just want Luka Doncic to be fairly healthy?

Like, I think the, you know, internal , both from our perspective and internally, what measures as success this season is going to vary a little bit, and it's going to be a little bit in the eye of the beholder thing because I, you know, not thinking about Polinka's job, if you're asking me.

If they play, you know, if they make a playoff run that wins them at least one series, and it's obvious that the young guys that they got to flank Luca are long-term fits around him.

That's almost as good as you can get from a non-championship perspective, but number one, this is the Lakers and championships are the standard.

And so, if it doesn't matter that the Spurs and the Thunder are awesome, if the Lakers don't win the championship, the fact of the matter is they don't win the championship, and I think it's not fair to, uh, I don't think it's unfair to view things that way, because when you have a top 3 player in the entire world, and Lukadoncic in the middle of his prime, in his mid to late 20s here.

You gotta, you gotta take advantage of that.

But there is the reality that retooling this Lakers roster around Lucas specifically was always going to be a multi-year thing.

It wasn't gonna be able, they weren't going to be able to do it in one offseason in one fell swoop.

Polinka came pretty close, I will admit.

He fixed, he got a 3 ID swingman and a rim running center in one offseason, and it cost them a lot, both asset-wise and money-wise, but he did a pretty good job there.

But It all comes back to.

You know, that standard or the standard of success for those transactions in a vacuum is now a lot different, I think, than what it's going to mean in light of the Lakers' new ownership.

Yeah, I don't think, I think this team will need a seat, like, you can't expect them to go out and win a title that, I mean, I think it's, it's the Lakers, you have one of the best scorers in the league, like, you should go into the season expecting to win a title, but realistically, when you have this new group, I think this season is more data collection, seeing if this new experiment works.

Uh, but to your point, if next season in 27, 28, and after that, like, at some point push comes to shove, and this, if this team is not making runs to the finals or winning a title, like, there are gonna be some sort of changes, it's, it's the NBA and it's the Los Angeles Lakers, so the question is, like, how much time.

With this ownership change, will Polinka get to see if this experiment works?

I'd be pretty surprised, given the time all the changes will take and how new the roster is if he doesn't get at least this season, to see what happens, unless they totally bottom out or something like that.

Um, but yeah, after that, I think you, you gotta start, you gotta start winning at some point, and I mean, the Lakers were.

Had injury troubles, they still got to the 2nd round last year, totally new roster.

Um, so we'll, we'll see where it goes.

Definitely one of the more interesting teams to, to watch next season, even when, before you consider all the off the court drama in the franchise, I'm excited to see how this roster gels together.

I think they'll need some time, but I think, I think it's definitely suited toward Luka Luka Dacic's uh needs.

But on that off the court aspect of it, if all this comes to pass and Polinka's in trouble and all that, it'll mean that there's not a bus family member involved in the Lakers decision-making process for the first time since 1979.

That's pretty unbelievable.

And, I mean, what, what are you, if, if this is it, if this is the end of the Buss family running the Lakers, what are you gonna remember from their ownership tenure?

Uh, I mean, one of the most iconic names in sports that built this brand that is the most valuable sports franchise, really, um, and obviously, neither you and I were alive for the start of Jerry Buss's tenure, but doing research on it, watching Showtime, like, and all the other Lakers documentaries, it's incredible that He built this empire that has lasted this long.

I mean, It's, like, I understand Mark Walter is selling this franchise at a valuation that's 2.5 billion more than he bought it for the year before.

When you consider, or when you put aside the The relationships and like falling outs between the bus siblings, I can see how they'd want to cash in on this experience, but Jeannie wants to live out and like honor her father's wishes, which For all we know, for what, how he built his trust is for his family to still be involved in the Lakers and have a big say.

So, it, it would be, it would be sad, um, I mean, honestly, like I said, I don't think it would impact that much of the basketball we see, we see being played, but like, the Lakers are the buss family, the buss family is the Lakers, so.

It's, it's the end, the end of an era, so to speak, if it turns into that, and it would just be a little bit of a bummer that.

It, it's messy.

Like, I'm sure, I'm sure Doctor Buss wouldn't, wouldn't have wanted that, but obviously there are a lot of factors.

I mean, how else was it ever gonna end though?

This is the Buss family, these are the Lakers, like they are.

The, the Lakers are, the reason that they were showtime wasn't just because of the on-court stuff.

The Lakers were embedded in the cultural fabric of like Hollywood and America in a way that almost probably no other sports team ever has been insofar as how spectacular the highs can be and how disastrous the lows can be.

And all of the things that you think about when it comes to the Lakers, you're like, Kobe Shaq, dynasty, really messy off-court situation.

Magic and Kareem dynasty kind of petered out near the end there , a little bit of a messy off-court situation, the LeBron thing, it's, it's just, it is, it, it, it was one of the most successful ownership tenures in sports history, and the crazy heights that they reached are unbelievable, but you can't think about it without thinking about the lows too, and they, that dichotomy is what makes them so interesting and why.

It is no surprise that something's happening again.

There's always something, cause it's Hollywood , baby, it's showtime, it's, it's, you know, it's show business.

It's everything that the Lakers have ever been and will continue to be.

So, it'll be interesting to see how that unfolds.

I think we're in the very early stages of what might be quite a long process.

So, we'll turn our attention to more on the court matters, where we got a trade, the rare August trade in the NBA involving people you have heard of.

The Cavaliers traded Dennis Schroeder to the Hornets in exchange for Trey Man.

The Cavs threw in some cash to grease the wheels of the deal.

Um, Cleveland cleared about $6.5 million in salary in as part of the trade, and the Hornets get another point guard after they traded away Lamelo Ball.

Blake, you were the one covering this for us over on the SINBA team, so, what's your read on how things went down here?

I mean, the obvious thing that stands out is the Cavs are trying to clear money off their books.

James Harden is still unsigned.

The presumption that has been ongoing for a while is that he's gonna return to the Cavs on a new deal.

So, more, more wiggle room to make that work.

After missing out on LeBron James, the Cavs have also been at the top of the line of rumors surrounding.

A potential sign and trade for Peyton Watson out of Denver, or potentially uh Jonathan Kainga suitor.

So, this gives them some wiggle room.

Um, I mean, they still have Max Strus and his close to $17 million expiring salary on their books, which they could try to offload to create even more room to make a, make a splash, but From the Cleveland standpoint, it's pretty, it's pretty clear to me, um, actually, before I go to the other side, I'm interested to hear your thoughts, like, does Trey Man do anything for you, uh, roster-wise in Cleveland?

He does not, but that's OK, that's, that's mostly, that is not a Trey Man comment, that is a, you know, for, that is a Cleveland comment because for all the criticism that the Cavaliers have been on the receiving end of after their epic burnout in the conference finals to the Knicks.

They have an extremely talented roster.

They got a lot of great players there with Donovan Mitchell.

Obviously, James Harden is all signs pointing to him coming back as almost a basically a sure thing.

Jarrett Allen, Evan Mobley, uh, I love Sam Merrill.

There are, there's a lot of good players there and Trey Mann doesn't, uh, he gives them another body for sure.

Um, and I think, particularly during the regular season with the, uh, the injury problems that Mitchell and Harden have both kind of battled on and off over the last couple of years.

And the fact that these guys are two of the NBA's most decorated scores, which means that they have an enormous amount of miles on their legs, means that having a body is, is good, is good for keeping them healthy and having, especially if they end up getting rid of Max Strus for one reason or the other, they need some guys who are, you know, a little bit more capable on the wing.

Uh, the real question to me is what they're actually gonna do.

I think Watson and Kamena make a lot of sense as far as connecting dots goes, and there's been a lot of inside reporting there.

Um, Watson seems like the better option because he's a I know, it's hard to say he's more proven than Jonathan Kainga is kind of my problem with that.

Because Watson had one good year and it was a spectacular year.

I mean, the guy shot 40% from 3 while averaging a block a game, which only two other players in the NBA did last year who qualified for the leader boards, Andrew Wiggins and Jayden McDaniels.

So that's real, and he, Andrew Wiggins had more attempts per game, but Watson actually had more attempts per game than Jaden McDaniels and is a similar level defender.

McDaniels is definitely better right now, especially given he has more of a body of work, but If the Cavs can basically get their version of Jaden McDaniels, like that is a huge, huge swing for a team that's high praise.

Yeah, Jaden McDaniels is incredible.

No, he's incredible, and that the numbers say that Watson can be a guy who's like on the level of that impactful.

Watson has a lot to prove before he can become the McDaniels, but he is also a young guy, and so betting on him to develop into something like that, if they have a, you know.

Game-changing, disrupt or not game-changing rather, but like a disruptive 3 and deep wing.

That's everything that Cleveland's been missing in theory, but he's gonna be expensive.

He's looking at, uh, he doesn't want the deal that Denver offered him, which is 4 years, $70 million and so he remains, uh, reportedly, and so he remains an unrestricted or And so he remains a restricted free agent, and that's why he's even available for trade in the first place.

The Cavaliers are already extremely expensive with Mitchell and Mobley both on max deals.

Harden is about to get another lucrative deal.

Jarrett Allen is paid well, as is Max Strus, like you mentioned.

There's, um, so, I mean, it becomes, in terms of roster building, Kinga then seems like a little bit of a better option, but on the court, he doesn't have nearly the body of work Watson does, but like, neither of them have a huge body of work.

It's kinda, you know, It's, the Cavaliers are trying to change something.

Re-signing Harden just means that they're running back the same team that got crushed by the Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals, and they did make it to the Eastern Conference Finals.

So that does count for something, and it really does.

And especially given the questions that I think were fairly asked about the defensive capabilities of a Harden-Mitchell backcourt, they got their two game sevens with it, and that is, you know, the results are what matters.

And Adding something, adding a wing guy like Watson or Kainga would be, would be huge, but it, you know.

It's gonna be a lot.

It's gonna, it requires a lot to go a very certain way to even make that happen.

And the Schroeder trade was one step of the process for sure.

Kainga is more reasonable of a target to me for Cleveland, compared to Watson , just.

If you, we know what Watson turned down in Denver, we know what he thinks he's worth, he wants that Christian Braun 5 years for 125 deal, uh, which Denver is not gonna be able to get off their books anytime soon, and the Braun deal went so well for them, they're not really eager to give out another one, I would imagine.

And they're the only team right now that's over the 2nd apron, so it's a messy situation that Cleveland could potentially.

Take advantage of, but the question is.

How many, like, what kind of assets do you wanna send out for that, given Denver's situation, when you'd also presumably be committing to a player who's proven, but also still kind of unproven, like you mentioned, at a considerable deal, um, and whereas Jonathan Kamena at this point is an unrestricted free agent, the most likely option is he takes A one year deal, kind of bets on himself having a good season, and then runs it back next summer and gets a long-term deal, I mean, which is interesting because that and then uh the Lakers thing ends up kind of playing a role here, because the two teams that were connected to Kainga were the Lakers and the Cavaliers, the only two teams that have been really strongly connected.

The Lakers seemed like probably an inevitable destination for a while.

But now, I mean, if ownership is selling, it feels like maybe, you know, things are gonna be put on hold there in terms of making large financial commitments or long-term asset trades.

So, if that takes them off the board, then does Kainga indeed take the one year prove it deal?

How much does that decrease his, you know, bidding war value when it comes to convincing the Hawks to do a sign and trade, because that's the only, the only reason they're even being talked about.

Coming is an unrestricted free agent, but Cavs are over the first apron.

They need to sign and trade.

They can't just sign him outright unless he agrees to sign for the minimum.

Yeah, so Uh, the, the question here is like, so if you can get Kamena on a one year deal via uh like a sign and trade or whatever, whatever he's agreed to, it.

It opens some more like flexibility down the line, but that said, like, maybe this front office isn't really concerned about that right now, considering, as far as we know, they are about to re-sign James Harden to a long term deal and commit to this.

Expensive roster, you haven't had a full season of James Harden yet, um, so what, what does that look like next to, next to Donovan Mitchell and Jared Allen, who was great in the playoffs, by the way, and really like, carried them to the Eastern Conference Finals on top of Mitchell's scoring.

Um, so, I, I don't know, part of me is like, don't.

Don't overcommit here because you're already so far committed, and you'd also have to give up some sort of assets for Watson.

I don't think it would be as much as the Lakers gave up to go and get Kessler, but it's totally, yeah, too totally point it feels like maybe a like a couple protected draft picks.

It feels like Strus would be the real.

Prize, I suppose is the word you would use of a Watson deal for Denver, and really what that would mean is rerouting him to some 3-point needy team who would be willing to send back a cheaper player, but Denver being over the 2nd apron, there are a lot of restrictions there in terms of what they can do with those trades involving multiple players, and it's just, it's complicated, but the shooter thing was the first step, and I think I agree with you that it doesn't seem like the Cavs are giving much consideration to the future.

I mean, they signed Donovan Mitchell to an absolutely massive extension this summer.

That it was worth $273 million that locks him in with the Cavs through 2031.

And this is for a guy who is not young, not old, but not young.

He's 29, he's gonna be 30 before the season starts.

It's a depressing thing to say for a 30-year-old.

I hate sports sometimes, but He's gonna be 34 when that contract runs out and you were paying him so much money annually, and they did that deal on, at the first available opportunity.

Like, the moment he became eligible to do that, they offered it to him and they signed him, which is not really how NBA teams have been doing business recently.

It has, there was a lot, there was an error there, like around Kevin Durant's free agency with the cap spike 10 years ago, where if a player was worth near max money, they were going to get max money.

Because the alternative was daring teams to not offer that and watch them walk in free agency for nothing.

Lots of people scarred by that happening to the Warriors with KD, that happening with LeBron James, with the Cavs, um, But this is a reversion back to that where it's just sign on the dotted line, we love you, we want you here forever, and That combined with what is likely going to be a deal around $100 million for James Harden, who is 37, certainly suggests that the focus for this Cleveland team is right now, this year.

Who gives us the best chance to compete this year?

And it's hard to blame them for thinking like that.

Like, yeah, they got steamrolled a little bit by the Knicks.

But that's still there's everyone did, yeah, 1, everyone did.

Number 2, how badly your butt got kicked in the playoffs has no standing on the fact that there's been a different champion every single year since not by analytics, might I add, shout out to Kenny Atkinson.

Shout out Kenny Atkinson, analytically, the Cavaliers are already undefeated.

Um, I want your thoughts on what, uh, And I want your thoughts on what adding Dennis Schroder means for Charlotte, because my, my takeaway with that is Charlotte gets an upgrade from Trey Man, the guard room before was, uh, obviously there's no Lamelo Ball anymore.

They commit to Kobe White, they draft Christian Anderson in the middle of the first round.

I would think before this trade, Christian Anderson was going to have a serious role immediately on this team who traded Miles Bridges, traded LaMelo Ball, is committing to this young group of Brandon Miller and K Knippel, and by the way, they added.

Naz Reed and some great depth pieces, and Grayson Allen and Royce O'Neal, like, before, it's crazy to say, but.

Before this trade, I was curious on what the Charlotte Hornets would look like this year, because they come off this awesome season where they were one of the best teams in the NBA after the All-Star break, they fall just short in the play in tournament, don't get into the playoffs, you trade Lamelo Ball, you trade Miles Bridges.

I was like, All right , maybe we're gonna see a little bit of a gap, but if Miller and Knippel take even greater steps, then maybe they can get somewhere, be a little like frisky with the depth that they have, but Adding Schroder puts a veteran next to Miller and Knippel when Kobe White is off the floor, allows you to give Anderson some more runway, so he's not thrown to the wolves right away as as a young rookie.

So I think Charlotte.

is trying to make a push , and I realize how crazy it sounds, like saying that based off of adding Dennis Schroder, I just think it, it speaks to what the team's plan is this season with this new roster.

No, the most important thing is that Dennis Schroeder steps onto the court wearing a Hornets jersey, because that would make him, that would make it, because that would make it hit 12 teams for Dennis Schroeder in the NBA, 13 if you count his brief, brief, brief stop with the Jazz where he never donned a uniform, that doesn't count, yeah.

I strongly contend that that does not count.

You gotta play a game in the city in order to be able to add up to that count.

Um, the trade definitely counts.

He's now the second most traded player in NBA history behind the one and only, Trevor Ariza, everybody's favorite 3&D wing from the mid 2000s NBA 2K days.

Um.

It is a little crazy for you to be saying that about the Hornets with Dennis Schroeder.

I think he's, I, I understand.

He, he is, he's, he is fine, obviously.

He's a good enough player to stick around in the NBA and play serious minutes, not good enough that anybody wants to keep him, and he's usually used as trade fodder, which is a very interesting place for NBA players to live because I think it is undeniably a reflection of their skill and kind of how that skill set exists in the vacuum of that, the basketball of the time.

For Schroeder, I like the addition for the Hornets because I don't think that Christian Anderson is super ready for, like, running the offense stuff.

The kid has a sweet stroke from 3, really good chance he becomes, you know, non-top 3 edition , best 3-point shooter in the draft, and putting him with Knipple is gonna be some real nasty business for defenses to deal with.

But rookie point guards have it real tough in the NBA, particularly if they have no backstop.

It is a huge learning curve to be able to step into an NBA offense and run it successfully while also not getting confused or flustered or attacked by what the defense is trying to do, and then there's all the other things that a point guard has to do in terms of making sure everybody gets their touches and managing egos , blah, blah, blah blah bla.

He could have done that, but it's always better to make sure he doesn't have to, in my opinion.

And I think that adding Schroeder is a smart move by their front office, which is filled with a bunch of smart guys who are not afraid of taking a swing, which is the other part of this is that now they have a little bit of a salary.

Salary to work with if they do want to trade uh if an opportunity comes up next season because we know they're opportunistic they know we know now for sure that that front office led by Jeff Peterson is not going to say no to anything.

They're gonna pick up the phone if they traded Lamelo Ball they'll trade anybody kind of thing, and I don't think they will.

I think that's probably Brandon Miller Con though, probably definitely not Con.

I don't think Brandon Miller is untouchable.

I think his.

There's a lot of in theory with him that hasn't quite translated to in practice yet, and the shoulder injuries kind of freaked me out, but I mean, he doesn't have an extension yet, but no one really gets, unless it's super obvious, like no one really gets an extension right away.

Only the Victor Wambayamas get rookie extensions on the floor.

First eligible day now.

Um, but yeah, so now that, now the Hornets have kind of the reliable, steady hand who even though I would not call Dennis Schroeder like a true point guard, he's definitely a score first guy.

I think he's a little bit more of a true point guard than Kobe White, who is, his whole game is streaking and shooting and Extremely valuable, maybe not so much from an organizational perspective, getting everybody in the right place.

I think Schroeder might be able to do that, but the more important thing for Charlotte feels like, number one, this is basically a, you know, Trey Mann wasn't gonna get serious minutes with the Hornets, and if he does, the replacement level is not huge there.

So they, they gave up, uh, you know, a zero asset for Dennis Schroeder who It is not gonna be the difference between 35 and 40 wins, but is a, as we said, kind of more reliable hand and $6.8 million dollar deal to flip if they ever find an opportunity to use it.

So, I love it for an August trade.

It's perfect for August.

It gives us something to talk about, but it's definitely not a needle mover for me, for my expectations for the Hornets next year.

Right, I mean, Dennis Dennis Schroeder, obviously he's Him and his family have been through the wringer the past few seasons, like, first off, feel for him, like, I remember when he briefly got traded to the Warriors, and he was talking about how his son's favorite player was Steph or something, which, which is hilarious, and then he was traded a few days later, but you're forgetting the best part, his son said that he's so excited his dad gets to play for a good team now, and the Warriors traded him months later, not even months later.

I think it might have been less than a month later, it was a dual deadline flip.

But yeah, and that's uh what.

What I mean, like, Detroit went and got him, and he was huge in their run to the playoffs two seasons ago, um, on a super young team, he was sort of that steady hand and um helping keep things afloat while Cade Cunningham was off the floor, he gets signed, uh, signed and trade to Sacramento over the offseason, gets a payday because of that, and then the Cavs go and get him at this offseason , so, To me, like, this is a guy that playoff teams go for to kind of keep things afloat.

Obviously you have to consider, he's only getting older and things of that nature, but I think it's a, it's, it makes sense for where this team is, because I think they're Sneakily going to try and have their own say in the Eastern Conference after we've been talking about all these other teams, and also like you alluded to, they have a number of players that are making enough salary that you can put together to get a needle mover potentially, like, could, would this front office want to take a shot on Anthony Davis, like, I'm not sure, but they could.

In theory, so, and poor Schroeder, like , he has 2 years left on his deal, around 15 million a season.

I will not be shocked if he's traded again total, right?

Uh, no, he's Yeah, he, he makes, um, I'm sorry, I just had this pulled up, he'll make $14.

8 million next season and $15.

5 million in 2728.

Um, so that was, he signed the 3 year, $44 million dollar deal with Sacramento last year, so does Charlotte want that on their books for the next two seasons?

I think obviously they're They want to use him right now, but what if things change, change, they use him in another deal, and assuming he plays for the Charlotte Hornets when the season starts, uh, which is all but guaranteed right now, if he gets traded again, then he, when he plays for his next team, if it's a team he hasn't played before, played for before, he will tie Ish Smith for the most franchises played for in NBA history, which Um, I don't know if that, what a guy, great, he, yeah, he had his like longest stretch with the Pistons and the Wizards, and so I watched him a ton when he was in Detroit, but I don't know if that's history really like want to be on, uh, I know it's been a lot these past few seasons, cause I think the Hornets will be like his 6th team in the matter of 3 years.

Um, but like I was saying, it's a, it's a compliment in some ways that you're good enough to be traded that many times, because it not only suggests that you're good enough to play in the NBA for that long, because you need some longevity to have that opportunity, you also have enough of a skill set that other teams are interested in acquiring you.

What it says about you that they then turn around and trade you so often, it's unclear, it's unclear, but it's, I think it's salary in this like, oh, it is in this in most cases that's exactly what it is, it's a numbers game.

Yeah, 100%, and I think obviously like front offices talk to each other, like this is a veteran that everyone in the league is familiar with.

I'm also sort of convinced that his like FIBA is Schroder runs sort of get teams excited and be like, oh, what, what can this do for us down the stretch?

He's a beast for Germany and all international play.

And I think he's talked about how much he values those opportunities, and it's really obvious when he plays, and I have, even I have sometimes dreamed of like, what could that version of Schroder look like on this contending team.

Unfortunately, I don't think we're gonna see too much of that anymore.

He's a little bit past his prime, but he has something to offer, and I think overall this reflects Charlotte's place in the NBA now is like.

You wanna get a deal done, maybe you should call Charlotte.

They're willing to facilitate, you know, these kinds of mini transactions where they didn't really have to give up much, and in exchange, you just give them some cash and like, kind of call it a day there, and that makes them, you know, super interesting because it means they could end up being involved in all sorts of transactions over the next year or two, but it also makes them really unpredictable.

I think the Thunder have, you know, the treasure trove of assets that Sam Presty has accumulated.

But the way that the 2nd apron works now, and how restrictive it is for teams accumulating several large salaries, it kind of feels like they're not gonna be first in line for the next big superstar to become available.

They didn't go after Giannis.

They haven't gone after any of, they haven't gone after any of the big names, like it's questionable if they would have gone after Luca if they put that on, on like a bidding war, because Sam Presty not only believes in his program, and it's hard to disagree with those results.

But also, the reality is that you can have maybe 2 max guys if they match perfectly, otherwise, it needs to be one max contract guy and a bunch of different useful players.

And so, the Hornets no longer have a max guy.

The Hornets now have a bunch of assets.

The Hornets now have a collection of very interesting young talent who are all good at different things, and if you have a centerpiece for those different things that isn't LaMelo Ball apparently, then Maybe you're working with something, maybe you're cooking.

And in particular, Naz Reed could end up being an extremely valuable trade chip, an extremely valuable trade chip.

I don't think that the Hornets acquired him with the purpose of flipping him later on their mind.

I think that they traded LaMelo for reasons, you know, that they explained a little bit in terms of This being the right move to make sure the team's long-term success is established.

But Reed wasn't a throw-in.

He was, he's not only as a, you know, a great guy who's beloved in the Minnesota community, he has a very unique skill set for somebody who's as large as he is.

For being a 6-11, absolute dead-eye from 3, who can rebounds well enough to play center, even if the uh defense isn't really there.

But you put him next to any of the ground-bound centers who have become more and more popular in the NBA over the last couple of years.

You know, guys who can't, you can't stretch the floor with like your 7-foot behemoth, but puts this guy next to him and that is a massive front court.

It's why the Rudy Gobert thing worked so well, first with Karl-Anthony Towns, and then when Reed kind of took his place, took his minutes, didn't really take his place cause he still came off the bench, but took his minutes to stretch the floor.

That's a guy that teams would be willing to give up a ton for, particularly if he Particularly if he has a great season in head coach Charles Lee's system, which I think he's very much primed for.

Charles Lee is from the Joe Missoula school.

He's from the Mike Budenholzer school.

Those guys love getting threes up.

Nas Reed is really good at shooting threes.

So I could see him averaging over 20 points a game this year for a Hornets team that will probably struggle to stay afloat, all things equal in the east.

Um.

But once February rolls around, that trade deadline, he could become incredibly interesting as a possible target.

Yeah, I, I'm with you.

I think Charlotte got Naz Reed to keep him as part of what they're currently, what they're currently building, um, and I mean, they're putting him next to the centers they have there, like, I think the center position is their biggest question mark.

I mean, uh, Mussa Diabate and Ryan Kal Brenner were both great, specifically Diabate last year, but Is that center room good enough, uh, is that where they look to upgrade at some point, because, I mean, I think Naz Reid makes a ton of sense next to, next to Diabate specifically, who started, cause he doesn't shoot the ball, he's incredible at at rebounding and getting looks near the rim, but, um, the Nas like stretches the floor, which is important for Khan and Brandon Miller, so.

I think I'm interested to see how this team meshes together and where they ultimately shake out.

I'm with you.

I wouldn't put them near the top of the Eastern Conference, but I think they could be frisky and just like they were last season, potentially a team you wouldn't want to draw if they make it to the playoffs.

Thank you listeners for tuning into this week's open floor.

I am Liam McEwen, he was Blake Silverman.

Thank you so much for listening to us, and we can't wait to be back next week.