This Series Just Got Real for the Spurs

The Knicks certainly have to hope that they can close this thing out in 4 or 5 games because exactly what they would want to have happen in the Western Conference Finals is happening.

And this is what I say all the time when people talk to me about like, Oh, you know, if you take over this team, like , are you really a championship team because you're not as good as Oklahoma City or San Antonio?

Well, for starters, only one of those two teams comes out of the Western Conference, and whichever version of them comes out may be beat to shit.

And that's kind of what it looks like right now with Oklahoma City.

Oklahoma City and San Antonio tied up at 1.

And both of these teams are injured.

You've got De'Aaron Fox and Dylan Harper injured on the sideline for San Antonio.

You've got Jalen Williams having another hamstring issue with Oklahoma City.

So AJ Mitchell dealing with something as well.

Um, I guess I'll frame the question this way as we head to San Antonio, which of these two teams would you want to be?

Which, which, who is a supporter of which of the two teams would you be most comfortable being right now?

Are we, are we talking about injury-wise or in general?

Are we just talking about like the position that they're in?

Yes, San Antonio's got home court advantage, but Oklahoma City's still got the experience.

Like which of these two teams, if you're like, who's the favorite at this moment tied up in one, I think the Thunder is still the favorite even though the Spurs took one from them at home.

I don't think.

This series is going to go to chalk on home games.

These teams are just too good and just too close.

Um, and I think that the Thunder are more capable of making up for their injuries than maybe the Spurs are.

And the Spurs are down, literally down to Stefan Castle, and then they're going to go deep on the bench at backcourt, and I, I just, the, the Thunder, I mean, this is what the genius of Sam Presty and the coaching staff over there in Oklahoma City.

AJ Mitchell's the story we were talking about mid-season, they find guys to play at a super high level who you didn't expect it from, and, and that continues to happen and they've shown all season they can play without Jalen Williams if they have to.

Um, you know, I think it's, it's hard not to have a strong lead guard.

Um, if you're the San Antonio Spurs, and Castle keeps turning the ball over like crazy, and you know, I, I admire him as a player and I think he's got tons of potential, but he's got to stop that, and I, he's got to stop that in this series because if he is the only guy and he is doing, you know, this many turnovers, I think it's 22 in the first two games.

I have it written down, um, that, you know, it's just, just, you cannot be that guy.

If you're giving up the ball that much, Oklahoma City scored 55 points off of San Antonio, turning over the ball 44 times between the two games.

Castle was responsible for 20 of those 44 turnovers.

11 in game 19 in game two, yeah.

I mean, that, that's, and that was, that's why I think the Thunder right now are in a better position despite the injuries on both sides because the Spurs don't have as deep a reserve to go through and that it's showing at one particular position, which is always really tough as well.

I mean, look, I like the Hartenstein adjustment that the coaching staff made over in that series.

You know, he was kind of matching.

Back and forth, the playing time didn't seem like he was like platooning in a weird way, trying to match certain players on the Spurs, and they just said, oh, maybe he should actually just play.

To his ability and the time that he's able to and take the challenge against Victor Webayama, which I thought he did excellently, and he was , he was Greco-Roman wrestling with Wembayama.

Like the Spurs after the game, they were pissed.

They were pissed.

Uh, I mean they thought, they thought he got away with Oma City, you know, now for a few years they're the most physical team in the league.

That though, that though felt like a all right.

Isaiah, you're gonna play and here's how you're gonna play.

Like that, that felt like Lou Lou Dort, Lou Dort plays this way every game.

Like Lou Dort is constantly playing.

I don't, I don't, I don't know that Harttenstein is, Hartstein is that physical every game.

I feel like that was an intended approach to the game where Mark Dagnall said you need to do this.

You need to bang, grab, hold.

You get 6 fouls, big deal.

Like we'll deal with it, but the way you get more than 12 minutes in this game is by playing physical, and that's what he did.

Again, this has been Oklahoma City's MO.

It's part of what won them a championship.

It is part of what might win them a championship this year.

They play as physical as possible, and they basically dare referees.

You can't call me on every play, and that has a Physical toll on their opponents.

In Lou Dort's case, I've said this to you in the past.

I think he plays very recklessly, and I think you can be someone who says, hey, I'm not playing dirty.

It was just recklessness.

If you are reckless over and over and over again, that is playing dirty.

I'm sorry.

And I have seen the effect of this Oklahoma City team on other teams when they exit a series, a game with them, you have more injuries.

I mean, I'd be very interested to see which team, sort of the opponent exits with more injuries.

It might not be Oklahoma City, but I bet they would be up there.

And We have lionized teams in the past for playing this way.

The Detroit Pistons bad boys, baby.

Like it's, it's not as if this has never happened in NBA history before, but it is something that the league kind of has to look at and you know, we get tons, you said, oh, the people in San Antonio weren't happy.

We, how often do we hear that after Thunder games, that the opponent is pissed and calling the league.

Yeah, a lot.

We hear a lot from, right , and the NBA, I think, is reaching an inflection point to me where the NBA either has to decide, and maybe they have, and we just don't know it.

You know what?

Them's the brakes, kids, and we think it's within the rules.

You could play that way too, and we're not doing anything about it.

Or say to the officiating crew, hey, a point of emphasis is, and start fouling guys out of the game and being like, yeah, this is not acceptable.

The way I know with your other job, you know, officiating gets a fight under control, and, uh, certainly we've seen officials in the NBA calm a game down when they think tensions are high from a previous game.

Um, I just.

I'm, I'm interested to see where that part of the storyline goes because they're doing it right now to the Spurs.

And if you're a Thunder fan, you're saying it's within the rules, and if you are the fan of each of their opponents over and over again, you're saying not like this, it isn't.

We'll see what happens.

I think in San Antonio, it's going to be a lot harder for Hartenstein and others to get away with some of that stuff that they did in Oklahoma City.

Not both because, well, because, because you're in San Antonio and because attention is going to be drawn to that style of play.

I think the referees will be more cognizant of it.

You think this is the first time?

No, it's not, but like, specifically with, with the way Hardenstein played, like with how he played and all the grappling.

Like he didn't do that in game one.

You didn't see that from, you saw Oklahoma City play a lot smaller.

You saw them play Caruso.

For long stretches on him like this, I think there'll be an adjustment in how the Spurs play.

I think there's gonna be an adjustment in how the game is officiated.

I don't think he'd get away with it quite as much.

And frankly, like Mark Dagne may try to zig again and go straight small one more time and play Hardenstein, uh, smaller, uh, lesser minutes.

There's a lot of things you can do.

It's a chess match out there between these two teams.

Um, a couple of variables to me in this game, like, obviously, what is the health of the Spurs' backcourt.

Like Dylan Harper, I, I don't know what was going on with him.

Like he comes back.

But he comes out of the locker room, looks like he's ready to go back in.

He's listed as questionable for tomorrow night, which was interesting because most guys when they get a hamstring injury are not questionable.

They are day to day, and teams are so protective now of those hamstrings because it can lead to an ongoing problem.

On the other hand, he is 20 years old, Chris, and the hamstrings are more of an issue for older players and maybe you have to be less protective around a twenty-year-old.

Well, which, which means like.

De'Aaron Fox gotta get out there.

Well, that's a high ankle sprain, yeah, I mean, it's tough.

I, I get it.

Look, he, my theory, it's just my theory.

It's not based on anything really, um.

You know what, he was obviously hurt going to game one.

I think the Spurs, you know, you sit him out.

And I think after winning game one, maybe they thought they'd get away with it again.

Maybe like, look, we already took one game in Oklahoma City.

We already, we did what we set out to do.

Yeah, we, we, we stole home court advantage.

Let's see if we can steal another one without De'Aaron Fox.

Give him a few extra days to rest.

I mean .

theory will be blown out of the water if he sits out in game 3.

Like that's, that would obviously make that a moot point.

But I'm, I'm very curious to see him play and how effective he is because now you really need him.

You've got Harper hobbled or not playing.

Castle, in some ways playing great, in some ways playing horrible with all the turnovers.

You need your lead guard with playoff experience out there doing some things, especially when the other end.

You know, Jalen Williams in the same boat.

Like, again, questionable, uh, going forward as he's dealing with a hamstring injury of his own, the same hamstring injury that cost him weeks, you know, before.

I think that's a different scenario because he has had so many problems with the same hamstring.

I think you judge that as a medical staff differently than , you know, a 20 year old Dylan Harper who, you know, felt like he pulled something in the moment.

Hey, well, what y'all have 20.

3.

Like, what is Jalen Williams like?

He's got 3 years older than him, I think.

I just mean, but, but it's, it's not the age, it's the, the progress of the season or, or, or lack thereof, um, for him.

I mean, you know, you said about the Cavs Knicks series, this is what they got James Harden for.

This is what they got De'Aaron Fox for this right now, this is it, playoff experience, a guy who can punch through in the last 5 minutes, you know, who, you know, a big man can't always do that no matter how talented he is.

And he's got to be on the court to make that worthwhile.

Yeah.

Uh, and the last thing on Oklahoma City is, I, I, I just harped on James Harden and him needing to do more.

Chet Holmgren needs to do more.

Like Chet Holmgren had a better game two than he did in game one.

The bar wasn't very high.

Um, he still has yet to have a breakout game.

Um, I thought he was more physical in his matchups with Wembayama.

Yeah, he stepped on his foot at the foul line.

Did you see that?

That's not.

That's bad.

That's, that'll like and tried to like kept it on there to trip him.

That's not good.

That's, that's cheap.

The Thunder are so talented.

Shaikh Elris Alexander is legit a superstar.

They don't need to do this crap, and I think it is frustrating for a lot of fans who might otherwise root for them.

Do you think that's ordered?

Like, that's, do you think the code red was ordered on that one, or is Jet just doing that shit on his own?

I, I think it's an ethos around the team.

I, and I'm not sure if anyone has to say it.

They all play.

I mean, I don't wanna say they all because everyone's an individual, but there is a culture of playing that way.

I mean, there are all sorts of clips around the internet of look at Lou Dort doing X, Y, and Z, look at Hardenstein doing X, Y, and Z, look at Chet doing X, Y, and Z, and I, you can't make those compilation clips of almost every player in the starting five on all the other teams.

This is an ethos around the team.

And again, the NBA clearly feels OK about it as to this point, because they have all the information.

It's not like they didn't see the clip of Chet stepping on Wemy's foot at the free throw line, I mean at the foul on the side of the foul line, trying to keep him from moving for the rebound, trying to keep, you know, trip him on the, on the, as he finally got free.

it's, it's, they don't need to do that stuff.

They don't, and it, it's, I find it very frustrating because They're a really good basketball team without it.

I'm surprised you think that anyone thinks you get away with it with all the camera angles and all, all the got away with it.

But like I'm saying in the broader sense, like you're getting away with it in the broader sense.

I, I'm saying, but like we now, we are now talking about that particular play.

Like, OK, great, but we've talked about so many particular plays with the Thunder, and certainly their opponent, as I said, every opponent after they play them is like, Hey, X, Y, Z, this happened, this happened, this happened.

I'm sending tape to the league.

Like, it's not just one player, it's not just one game.

It is part of the ethos of this team the last few seasons.

And it's one of the things we praise them for the season before they won the title, right?

Gritty, physical, when you don't, you know, you're a young team without as much talent, like, be physical, effort on every play, all of that stuff.

But there's a line between reckless and dirty, and if you're reckless enough, it's dirty.

And there's a line between physical and like Trying to, you know, intend to injure might be strong, but not that far out of the side of that box.

And again, I, I just don't think they have to play that way.

They're so freaking good.

And Shay is a, you know, rock star.

And it's just be nice to, to see some of that die down again for their sakes, because I think around the NBA both in locker rooms and certainly in fan bases.

There's, you know, who, who, who does, who does everyone trot out the unethical basketball title to?

You, you don't need to be that team.

You're so talented without it.

I don't know.

Well, uh, I, I don't disagree with, uh, a lot of that.

Um, I, I think ultimately for, to, to bring it kind of full circle, ultimately for Oklahoma City to win, Chet cannot be like the sixth-best player on the floor.

Like he is, you know, measurably like a peer of Wimpanyama.

They are 1-2 in Defensive Player of the Year.

They're competing for all-star spots.

They're competing for all NBA spots.

Like they are supposed to be.

Peers, they're right around the same age.

Uh, you can't be getting your ass kicked on a regular basis by this guy.

And he had some good moments.

He had some good moments, made a big three, I think in the first half and, um, played better in game two, but you've got to be a lot better for this team to win this series, especially if Jalen Williams is gonna be sidelined for any significant amount of time.

I was gonna say this rivalry goes back to when they were teenagers, but I think they're still teenagers, certainly, Victor, but he's what, 20?

Um, but, uh, this.

It goes back till they were like, since I mean, there's footage of them 1213, right, playing in like Team USA Team France stuff and, you know, the under whatevers under 16, like, they do not like each other.

Victor really doesn't like Chet and finds it a point of pride very clearly.

Run him through, right?

I mean, who was it with was it Gobert and Karl-Anthony Towns or?

Luca and Gobert, Kat and Joe Joel Embiid for a while, uh, yeah, just to sort of like I'm going to embarrass you.

You get that from Victor when this is probably worse.

This is probably worse than all that.

Like maybe Luca and Gobert might be a a good comp, but other than that, like, and this stuff, Luca and Gobert is more recent.

Like this, this goes back to like.

The USA basketball international games.

That's what they played, yeah, 1213, 14, and the under 16, and it's just, well, I wouldn't want to be an enemy of Webayama.

Like he, that guy can carry a grudge, man, or at least he remembers everything for seemingly an interminable amount of time.

And by the way, you say, oh, they're peers, they're peers.

He's won 2, he's won 2, he's competing, whatever.

There can be a lot of space between number 1 and number 2, right?

I mean, Michael Jordan was number 1 for a very long time, and the next guy was not almost Michael Jordan.

So, I, I'm interested, and this is on chat, just as you said, prove yourself, man.

Are you a close #2?

Could you even fight for #1?

Or in the end, are you always gonna be #2?

Yeah, I, I agree with you 100% there.

I think this is a, a big series for Chet Holmgren to prove himself or at least to You know, not get completely overshadowed by Victor Webayam for the rest of the series.

All right, Rachel, just like you, uh, often hear from, uh, the LA Clippers folks about some of the things that I say, I will wait to hear from Matt Tumbleson of the Oklahoma City Thunder about some of your takes about his team.

I, I, I'm only talking about what is on film.

I wanna, I do, I wanna stress that because I think it's hard when anybody talks about something that is visibly on film, and then it's like, ah, you're a hater.

I'm not a hater .

I really like this Thunder team.

That's kind of my argument.

They're good.

They're very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very good.

So you don't need to do some of the stuff we have physically watched them do.

I mean, Matt reached out to me.

I, I made some point, uh, I think when Lou Dort, when he was doing his like tripping Jokic and all the stuff.

And I mentioned sort of the list of good players who have either been injured by him or gotten to, you know, sort of obvious trips or, or things that have been like sort of categorically not OK.

And I put Wembayama on the list and Matt immediately because he's very good at his job was, you know, hey, what, what are you talking about with Yama, which game?

And, and I, you know, first of all, it was like late at night, I was with my family, but the next day I was like the Christmas game on national TV buddy.

Like it's, it's just, I, I am not talking about literally one thing that is not on tape, not one thing, and I, I, I just think the ethos of physicality there, and I'm not saying the ethos of dirty play, the ethos of physicality there which takes it.

Not just up to the limit, but a little bit past it.

And again, we have lionized teams for this in the past.

This is the bad boys, baby.

I mean, this is teams we are, they're tough.

Teams don't play that way, tough enough anymore.

So, I, I'm not saying, man, like this is, this is, they should be cast out of the league.

It's just something the NBA needs to make a decision on and maybe they already have, and it's OK with them.

Friend of the podcast, Matt Tomelson, avid listener, regular listener, regular listener to the show.

I'll pass along his regards.

I'll pass along.

I, I, I, you know, I love Matt.

He's great.