Bryan Curtis on Russini-Vrabel Scandal, Wrestlemania Letdown, & More

All right.

Joining me now for his quarterly visit to the SI Media podcast.

Always love when he comes on from the ringer, Brian Curtis.

Brian, how are you?

I didn't realize it was, uh, standardized that way.

quarterly.

I just made it that way without telling you.

I like it.

I'm in.

I mean, you know me, I'm always, I'm, when you, when you text me, I'm like, let's go.

I'm ready.

I, I love that.

Makes my life a lot easier too.

Um, well, let me, let me start with one Brian Curtis question before we get into sports media because as a Brian Curtis fan and Brian Curtis observer, I feel like, and you tell me if I'm wrong, I feel like you're going a lot more into the political realm these days .

Is that accurate?

Is it not accurate?

Is it is it a conscious decision because you, you like it a little more than sports media these days?

Tell me what is going on there.

Uh, it's accurate.

Um, I, what, one thing I like about the press box is that we kind of go, um, where the action is a lot of the time.

So we're in a midterm year.

So, you know, we've had politicians come on.

I've had some politicians here in the studio in LA, which has been very fun for me.

I've enjoyed doing those interviews.

I will say that, you know, not every politically themed podcast has Mel Kiper Jr.

on talking about the early days of being a draft guru.

So there's still a ton of sports in it.

Uh, we had kind of a big sports media story last week that I think you are going to bring up today.

Uh, you know, so, you know, with us, it's just to me, it's like, I always feel that there are people out there who want some politics in their lives, and sports in their lives, and just general media, cable news stuff in their life, and they're just interested in a little bit of everything.

We try to bring it all to them.

Would you ever give up the sports media part of it if, if Bill Simmons came to you and said, we want you 100% politics, especially, you know, with an election in 2 years?

Uh, I'm not sure I can say no, uh, to Bill if that's what he really wanted, but no, there's no way like I could, I, I've been, I've been paying attention to announcers like you for way too much of my life to throw away all that intellectual capital if that's the right thing.

Uh, all right, well, that's good.

We need, we need people in this business who remember Dick Enberg and Pat Summerall and those who've, who we've lost, Jimmy.

I mean, I, I, I posted a clip on Twitter last week that kind of went viral.

It was from The local NBC coverage here in New York of the Mets postgame after winning the World Series against the Red Sox in '86.

And in the clip was Al Roker.

Uh, Len Berman, Sue Simmons, Chuck Scarborough, and when I posted, I was like, This is my wheelhouse, like 1986.

That is my, and, and it, it led, so those guys were in the newsroom and then it cuts to the locker room with Sam Marciano with Met players hammered beyond belief, just completely obliterated.

So it's, it's, it was such a great clip and, um, I, I, I, I said, you know, I don't know if, if anyone's gonna like this except unless they're old like, and then it ended up getting like a ton of, you know, likes or whatever.

So.

Luckily there's enough people out there that still like the old stuff that we're into.

Vin Scully called the 1986 World Series.

Yes, it was Vin, but I would recommend it.

Listen, if you're not a New Yorker, you're not gonna have the full appreciation, but you need to see what Al Roker looked like in 1986 doing the weather here locally in New York on NBC before the Today Show, and he's at the very beginning of that clip.

So that's when Letterman would go get him from the Live at Five studio and bring him in.

How great, you know, I was thinking about the.

We've talked about it, the, the, the sort of death of talk shows, um, at night, but We'll get into that at a different time because we have so much to talk about.

All right, The, I, I, there's, so we're taping this right after Mike Vrabel spoke for the first time.

About the Diana Rossini thing.

And I wanted to bring it up to touch on one thing that I found, I, I, I just couldn't believe and I wanted to get your take on it.

On Monday, A bunch of legitimate sites were aggregating a story that said the Patriots tried to have this, the original story in the New York Post in page 6 killed.

And it was like, Robert Kraft tried to get this, the photos killed.

They didn't want the Post to run it.

And the aggregators were all aggregating this story from In Touch magazine.

Now, maybe In Touch magazine has some connections at the Post, which I don't know if you would think if the Post had that information, they'd release it themselves.

I just can't believe anyone would think In Touch magazine would know the inner workings of the New England Patriots public relations department and people aggregated this like it was a legitimate story.

I could not believe it .

Did you see this and what was your take?

I did, as, and as omnivorous as we like to be on the press box, I'm not sure In Touch Weekly has.

Ever come up on our show, before this week.

You know what I think it speaks to is just how little information there really is about the story out there in the world.

I mean, how many times, how many things has Mike Florio pounced on over the last couple of weeks, because there's some little scrap of information here, some little scrap of information there.

Pro Football Talk was one of the aggregators of the in touch story.

Not a shock.

Um, you know, really, our, our old pal Ben Strauss, late of the Washington Post, now of ESPN, I thought had some of the best hard information story that dropped on Friday, because he was really able to tell the whole thing and add to it.

You know, about, you know, what happened inside the athletic and what happened between Vrabel and Rossini before, yeah, exactly.

So, you know, to me, that's like, I think the thing about this story is, first of all, everybody's texting everybody about it.

Everybody in sports media wants to know everything there possibly is about it, but There was a kind of a lack of information and honestly, with a lot of people, just a lack of engagement with it, you know, everybody was saying things on text messages that they weren't saying out loud.

Right.

And so when some little thing, even from in touch comes out, everybody pounces.

Yeah, yeah, I would say.

In the 1 hour after the story broke in page 6, that was probably, I would say probably a top 3 all-time, my phone blew up sports media moment .

Yes, without a doubt, um, it was, it was somewhere on the list, but don't you think I said this last week, I think a lot of people.

Depending who you work for, had to be very careful in how they discussed it because you couldn't discuss it from the premise of they're having an affair.

Because you can't make that leap.

I mean, you can make that leap from the pictures, but not without proof if you're working, you know, like me, Sports Illustrated.

I can't, I can't opine on that story in the early days.

Now I can because of, we'll get into what Vrabel said today.

But the first day, the second day, I can't write a whole thing off the assumption that they're having an affair based on pictures of them holding hands because That's not the proof there.

So I, I sort of get why people were tiptoeing in the first couple of days.

Is that a bad take?

No, I, I think that, no, I think that's totally fair, but that's what I'm saying is like the interest in it offline, that people were, were, were, you know, that people had privately versus what they were saying in public, there was just a huge difference.

Yeah, absolutely, 100%.

And then, um, we're taping this Tuesday afternoon.

Vrabel just spoke about it, and I thought.

You know, she must be very unhappy right now because I think her spin was, everything was innocent, nothing happened, and then his spin, well, not his spin, what he said was, I had a very, very hard conversations with all the people that I love in my life.

So those stories don't sort of match up.

So we'll see now what the next progression is here.

What I thought was notable about his press conference was him standing in front of the media, talking in that opening statement for about 2.5 minutes.

But other than what you just mentioned, not really saying anything.

You know, it was more like.

I want to stand here in front of you and be present.

Be maybe semi-accountable without actually answering the questions that you want to ask me.

Now, again, and you heard him a couple of times in the follow-ups there say things like, you know , I understand why you have to ask that, but I'm, I'm not gonna comment on that.

Right.

And I know people don't like to hear this, but the truth is he doesn't have to give an explanation based on his job.

There's the moral side of it, but the professional side.

That's, you know, it's on her unfortunately.

She's the reporter there, but people seem to get all bent out of shape if people say that.

And watching that today, I was like, that's probably the most we're gonna hear about this, you know, directly from anyone ever again, yeah, though, you know.

The other thing about this story was it led to so many bad takes, and so much conspiracy, like, you know, people like ESPN is covering up the story.

Why would ESPN cover up a story about someone from the athletic?

Like none of it made sense.

Uh, did you have something that frustrated you the most about this story, whether it was the coverage or the reaction to it or anything like that?

Well, I have one, but I'll let you go first.

Well, we, we did like an hour and a half on it, and I think when I came out of it.

The one thing I wish, one of the things I wish I had said was, there are a couple of things here, right?

There's, there's, you know, there's this idea of, you know, is it, was there, was there a relationship?

And then there was a second question, or what was the nature of the relationship, I should say.

And then there was a second question of people's frustrations about insiders.

And the way insiders get news and, and, you know, this, this whole thing that you and I've talked about before.

And the one thing I wish I would have said is, I think those those are different things.

You know, what, they're both concerning.

They're both, you know, we could, we could look at them and both say, OK, this is, there's certain things a reporter can do that, you know, are over the line and, you know, allegedly over the line, and then there's certain things over here with insiders that they do they're allegedly, I think those are just different subjects, right ?

Then you can probably people are trying to fuse the story together and I understand the temptation to do that.

Yeah.

But I think those are different things.

Yeah.

It's so funny the way you put it about after you taped, you wish you had said, and I had that last week after I taped, I wish I had said.

And I, I, and I, I know people do not like to hear this.

And I have seen very few people say this, but this is what the truth is also because there's been so much, there's been, I should say, there's been some defense of Diana Rossini, and usually the defense is, well, look at what Adam Schefter and other insiders do.

And here's the dirty part of this that no one really wants to get into.

Adam Schefter breaks 99% of NFL news.

If Diana Rossini broke 99% of NFL news, I bet she'd still be at the Athletic.

There, you know, it goes, it's the Chicago Bulls, the Jordan rules, like, The production and the output is a factor, whether people don't think it is.

I think it is.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I feel about it.

Like, when people like, oh, Adam Schefter does this, Adam, well, he's gonna be able to get away with stuff.

He, first of all, and he's not doing, you know, that, but whatever you unethical practice you may think he does.

He breaks every story basically, you know, there's a little nuggets here for Ian Rapoport and then, you know, that's it.

So that's a factor.

When, when the, when the Schefter stuff, people start bringing in Schefter stuff, I'm just like, I actually want to talk about that too, you know, like, I don't wanna, like, you know, when we've done segments on him, God knows how many segments we've done on him over the years, right?

When he tweeted a certain thing or something, you know, something came out and I'm like, I wanna hear all that stuff too.

Like, I think that to me is a is also a valid discussion with people like us.

Well, he had that whole Mr.

Editor issue and If someone else does that, maybe they do get fired.

But he's not getting fired for that.

He's too valuable to ESPN.

Yeah, I, I mean, I also think, I also think these are just, again, and I don't want to push things together, but I think these are different companies too, right?

Like the New York Times is just a different company than ESPN.

And I also think what hurts Diana Rossini is, OK, she can, you know, her title is NFL reporter and she writes for The Athletic, but when you're an insider, whether it's her, Schefter, whoever, Sham, like, Their job is really social media.

Like, that's where they break the story, that's where it spreads like wildfire.

And She gets burned because Social media, anytime she's gonna pop up with anything.

You know, we saw it.

She tweeted about the NFL refs, and then the response is just an avalanche of, you know, nasty comments.

That's unfortunately, uh, like, she can't do her job without this social media presence, it feels like.

And now her social media presence has been destroyed basically because that's all anyone's gonna comment about.

So that's where I have some sympathy for her on that one, yeah, and I don't, and then you know, the question is, you know, what she's gonna do next is, is interesting, and I'm, I'm, I'm interested to see how that turns out.

Yeah, for sure, absolutely.

All right, moving on, um, we're taping on Tuesday, Tuesday morning, Marchand broke the story that Mike Tomlin is going to.

NBC Football Night in America, what were your initial thoughts when Andrew broke that story?

I think Andrew had this in his piece today, but, like, Mike's been the number one draft pick of every single network now, for as long as I've been talking to producers, and he was always a star of those production meetings.

That they have the week before the game.

Yeah, you know, that's where they go get guys, right?

That's where they look for their next announcer.

And the thing about Tomlin was always, he's, he's gonna be great, but we don't think he ever wants to do it.

Right.

So this is kind of the end of a long journey in that aspect.

And then I think then I did my second reaction, we just get to the basic question is, what's he gonna say on TV?

What is he actually going to say, you know, is he gonna be captivating?

Is he gonna be Tony Dungy?

Like, what, you know, what are you gonna be able to get out of him, especially if he wants to go back and coach in a year, right.

I also think That it's really hard to make an impact in the studio.

I think the people who get all the attention are the people doing the games, whether it's good or bad, you know, you look at Romo, Aikman, Brady.

No one in studio really sort of emerges as a, look what this guy said.

And I think, I think NBC is tough because I think nobody's watching the pregame show because everyone's watching the end of the 4:30 games.

And I don't know how many people are watching the postgame show because that's at basically midnight Eastern.

So you get halftime there.

I, I, I just don't see a major impact coming from Mike Tomlin, but we'll see how it plays out.

Yeah, and I, you know, like, I think the Football night in America needed a refresh.

Yes, that, that is definitely the case.

Yeah.

I think there's been a lot of, yeah, and I think there's been a lot of failed coaches or just kind of mediocre coaches have been hired by TV.

Yeah.

You know, we know the exceptions, like the John Maddens and the Jeff Van Gundy's, but man, there's just a lot that are just kind of there.

Yeah.

And part of the problem is they want to audition for their next job and they don't want to say anything that's gonna piss off people in the league.

Yeah.

So, it's, it's, and, you know, Mike Tomlin's 54 years old.

You know, he's probably going to coach again.

If he does want to coach again, he's going to be the number one draft pick this year of NFL teams, just like John Harbaugh was.

Right.

So can you get something out of it?

Like, what to me, it's like the, the challenge for NBC is, what can you get out of him?

Maybe he's not gonna come rip people, but what are you, what are you going to get that's gonna really be a value add from him?

He's like, obviously compelling, interesting guy, he's obviously successful coach.

Right.

What's the TV presence like?

Right.

He's also, I mean, listen, what, if you had to bet money right now, wouldn't you say he's gonna be a one and done or 2 and done guy and then go back to coaching?

Yeah, I think that's overwhelmingly likely.

I mean, you hope you have him longer than Doc Rivers.

On ESPN or but actually every former coach hired by ESPN to call the NBA Finals.

Let's just put it in one.

That was , that was too good that Doc Rivers, we could still get mileage out of it.

Every time I watch an ESPN broadcast, I'm like they had Jeff Van Gundy and let him go.

It makes no sense.

So we, oh, let's go there because I was gonna be where I go.

Um, different kind of NBA player.

We're, we're early in the playoffs, but a lot of Prime Video, NBC, Peacock back in it.

Any early observations that stand out to you from this year's.

NBA playoffs and the and the new networks involved.

Kinks being worked out in front of our eyes.

The Amazon stuff has been talked about a lot, uh, NBC with the Knicks game last night with a timeout on the score button.

Um, you know, this is part of, part of what's exciting about new partners, right, is that We all need a refresh, right?

We need, we need new blood.

We need somebody to just break up the old ESPN Turner hammer lock on in the NBA coverage.

But you have new partners and stuff happens, you know, it's not that doesn't have that smoothness.

Yeah, I had a take in my column today.

I'll throw it at you and you tell me if I'm wrong because I always like to know when I'm wrong, but You know, when the, when the In the playing game when the video went out for Amazon Prime, I got all these tweets from people because I, I'm like the anti-streaming guy and people are like, could you believe this?

I have to say, I defended Amazon from this standpoint.

That was a technical difficulty that could have happened to any network.

My, I think what, what I'm looking out for with the streaming is the buffering and the picture getting, you know, all warbled up.

A, a technical difficulty where you lose the full picture, that, that has nothing to do with the streaming part of it.

I think that's just a technical issue.

I think what NBC did on Monday night was a million times worse because they had on their score bug that the Knicks had a timeout.

And then you had everybody destroying the coach for not calling the timeout, and I'll give NBC credit here.

They made poor Maria Taylor had to get on there and be like, data error.

We made a mistake.

They didn't as she was showing the highlights.

That was a bigger mess than the Amazon thing to me.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, exactly.

I mean, misleading the audience.

Has got to be and getting the poor guy killed.

Mike Brown was getting destroyed by.

I saw Nick Wright, even he had a tweet like, I had to delete my tweet because they didn't have a timeout.

Yeah, you, you, you caused Nick Wright to delete a tweet.

That's how serious it was.

And it's always magnified when it's the last play of the game.

See CBS's coverage of the Masters the other day, right?

If you're gonna get something right, make it the climactic final play.

Yeah, I mean , that was not where you want to mess up.

On the plus side, I felt 2-3 years ago that we were in a golden age of NBA play by play, where you had Green, you had Iron Eagle, and you had Kevin Harlan as your big 3.

So we've taken that and we've added Mike Tirico to that.

Yep.

In his prime, Mike Tirico, not to mention Noah Eagle.

Yeah.

I mean, man, it, it did not used to be this good.

If we can, if we can be the guys who remember the '86 World Series for just a second, it was not always this good in the NBA.

We are running deep with play by play .

It's not, and I'll put Ryan.

On that list too, man.

And Michael, Michael Grady is very good too on Amazon, I think he's just like a really, I mean, we are, it is embarrassingly deep, and I like, look at that.

And by the way, NBA analysts, they'll never keep up with the play by play guys because it's such a, it's a play by play announcer sport.

But I just think I'll look at it now and it's like, When almost all the time, first round is a little different cause there's a lot of games going on, but as soon as we get deeper in the playoffs, I'm like, there's not really an announcer I don't want to hear.

Right, right.

It's the analysts sometimes that I struggle, but yeah, for play by play in the NBA, it's, it's a, it's a, uh, what is it, what's the expression, blank of riches.

It's an embarrassment of riches.

Yes, exactly.

Thank you, um, and I'll give Amazon credit for this.

I think Amazon has its best score bug by far.

I'm a big fan of the Amazon.

I'm gonna defer to you on the score bug power.

I, I, I don't wanna make it sound like, you know, it was, it was totally, excuse me, totally great that Amazon lost their picture at a key moment of the game, but That is not because it's a streaming service.

That's the point I was trying to make.

Like that was a technical glitch that would have happened anyway.

But NBC, oh my God, you can't have the wrong timeouts on the scoreb.

You just can't.

I know I was like you said, it was, and it's like Knicks fans are, are, uh, I don't know if you know this, Jimmy, a little bit louder than your average, you know, NBA Twitter.

So we, we, we heard it, you know, right?

If it had been a Hawks timeout, I don't think we would have heard it in quite the same way.

I've been putting this out there today cause I just noticed it when going through the schedule.

So for the NBA playoffs on Thursday, which is when this podcast comes out, and Friday, all three games, both Knights are Amazon Prime.

Just so happens you have the NFL draft on Thursday and Friday.

So for the people who like to flip around, I think they're gonna get a big taste of what I have complained about with streaming is that.

If you're watching the NBA playoff game on Prime and you wanna, oh, let me see who my team's picking, you better have an iPad or a phone at your disposal because you're gonna have to go through the steps and to go back and forth, back and forth.

Is that your workaround because that's mine, like something on the TV and then the phone in my hand.

No, I have 2 TVs, so I'm fine, but I feel bad for the people who don't have two teeth, you know, not if you're just saying this for Joe Sixpack out there on the couch.

You, you, you do not have this problem yourself.

I do not have this problem, no, and I said this, um.

I did Deutsch's podcast this week and he asked me a question.

I'll get your take on it.

I, I'm not a big, I don't think the NFL draft to me is not the, for me personally, it's not the big event that it is for other people.

Because I just, just tell me who the picks are and tell me how this pick fits into the NFL team.

I'm not interested in the backstory.

I'm not interested in the, what this player had to go through.

I'm not interested in how high he jumped or how far he jumped.

Just tell me how he fits into the NFL team.

So, you know, Deutsch was amped up because there's like three networks covering this, which I wanted to ask you too, but we'll, you have the NFL Network now owned by ESPN.

So ESPN is basically doing three drafts, which seems a bit excessive to me, but we'll see what Brian thinks.

Well, here's my thing.

I've, I've been like an NFL draft fan forever.

I think I remember my favorite story about this is I wanted to get Mel Kiper's guide.

This is back in the early 90s before there was an internet.

Did I ever tell you the story?

And no, I didn't have Mel Kiper's phone number.

Right.

You know , I was living in Texas, right?

So I found out Mel Kiper was coming on local sports radio, but he was coming on after I was going to be at school.

So this is what I did, Jimmy.

I put a cassette in my recorder and I pushed record, and then I went to school, and when I came back, there was a.

Mel Kiper segment taped to this cassette.

Oh my God, that had that had Mel's phone number.

So then I call it and there was an answering machine.

I left my mom's credit card number on the answering machine, so that Mel would mail me his blue draft guide.

This is about 92, 93, 94, somewhere in there.

And so that that's how, that's how big a fan I've been in the NFL draft, and I used to go to like the sports bar, Bobby Valentine's as it was in Arlington and watch the whole draft.

Here's the thing.

I don't know that we've improved on the draft all that much, to your point.

Like, the old school idea of like, OK, you have Mel, you have your draft expert, whether you prefer Mel, Daniel, Jeremiah, whoever it is, you have your host, Boomer Eisen, whoever it is, uh, now Mike, now Mike Greenberg, and maybe you have another, another guy, a booger, a Joe Theismann back in the day .

What have we done to improve on that?

I actually think we've heard it from this standpoint.

What I used to like is I used to like the live element where maybe something crazy could happen, you know, Chris Berman, a couple of bloopers.

I remember him one time like throwing his finger across the screen because maybe people are walking in his way or something.

A good fight between two people on the panel.

Bill Tobin going at Mel back in the day, 100%, yeah, but Jets fans going crazy at the Marriott marquee.

I feel like we get none of that.

I feel like it's so buttoned up.

You have Mike Greenberg, who's never gonna make a mistake, never say anything interesting.

And I think if there was a fight on the panel, ESPN producers would probably tell them to not fight because then the clip will go viral.

Like, I, the live anything can happen anarchy of it, I feel like is not there anymore.

Yes, and I totally agree.

And if you watch, you know how they have the, or they've had in previous years, the little mini sections of fans all cordoned off with each other.

You have a little cowboy section and a little Steelers section, a little Jets section.

Yeah.

I, Jimmy , I don't like to use the term crisis actors because I feel that that's the conspiracy theories, but you'll watch and they're, like, one of these teams will pick a player in the 4th round and all these fans are jumping up and down, like, going crazy, and I'm like, excuse me, you've never heard of this guy.

There's just no way you've heard of the person they just picked, and you were having the identical reaction.

Whether they had just picked Fernando Mendoza, like, it doesn't, it doesn't make any sense, and so you've actually like.

You've taken what you remember the cool part about the old draft was like, angry Jets fans in the audience who were pissed off that they took Mitchell, whoever it was.

And I agree, they've they've drained some of the thing, but I'd also say that, like, all that backstory stuff that's usually on ABC and all that stuff, I don't want it.

I just want Host Draft analyst, maybe one more person.

Right.

And then like, maybe an insider telling me about the trades and stuff.

And how about our pal Peter Schrager and his Peter Finch and network moment about not tipping the picks?

Did you see that this week?

I did see that and he's right, like it's stupid.

It's just, it was a, it was a fun magic trick like 1015 years ago, and now it's just, it's pointless.

There's no point to it.

I, well, I think from what I, I could be wrong, but I think the people who tip the picks now are not affiliated with, like, I think ESPN has told their people not to tip picks in the NFL Network.

But if you work for another outlet, you're under no obligation not to tip that pick.

So, adjust your Twitter following for the night is what I would say.

It's weird though, but see, that's the thing is I want to be on social media.

But it's hard to do that, and then you realize like you, somebody just tipped 3 picks ahead and you're like, oh man.

Well, if you do, I do just enjoy it, especially the first round, it's just a television show.

Right, right.

And again, I just don't like, It's, and maybe there's something one of these networks, well, I guess it's now all ESPN could invent to make it better, but I just don't really think we have.

I think it's the same show.

I do remember last year watching the McAfee draft special because Schrager was on it and he had just gotten to ESPN and I have to say I enjoyed it.

I'll probably put that on for a little bit this year, although, you know, again, you have NBA playoffs going on here.

We'll have Yankees, Red Sox, um, but, At least, you know, with the McAfee thing, you don't know what to expect.

We, you and I could sit here right now and tell you everything that's gonna happen on ESPN and ABC and the NFL Network on Thursday night.

Yeah, maybe, maybe Schrier is the answer.

Maybe we need more Peter.

I think, I would just like more people.

We'll be tuning in.

I honestly think just more people being like that was a terrible pick.

Like that's to me, because those were what you always look for from Mel.

When he would just get pissed off and be like, well, that was horrible.

That was a huge reach.

Like, I, I do want some more of that because what are we doing if not arguing?

This isn't that important, right?

We're not gonna know the answer for years anyway, so we might as well just hot take a fight a little bit.

Here we go.

Did you, did you listen to my podcast with Deutsch, because that's the exact answer I gave.

I said to Dyke, I said, number one, nobody ever says a pick is bad.

Ever.

And I, and I, I said, this is not the Iranian war right now.

Like you can say like that's a bad draft pick.

He's not gonna fit into this team well.

There's nothing wrong with saying that, you know, and people, you know, God forbid you , you, oh, he's 18, he's 19, you shouldn't say bad things.

All right.

My other workaround is I listen to my local Dallas sports radio station.

Right.

And I'm often turning up the volume on them and turning down the volume on the TV because they're a very cowboy-specific draft show.

Makes sense.

I'm listening to them too.

I, I, it's, there's a lot going on.

Yeah, I, yeah, I, I, I just feel like it used to be one of these live events, like award shows almost like you would put it on.

And you would wait for something crazy to happen, and nothing crazy ever happens anymore, but we'll see.

Yeah, I do think there's something about, I was thinking about this a little bit during WrestleMania too, that like, the bigger you make things, the more you supersize them, some of the fun and anarchy, as you put it, leeches out.

Like, is, is anything ever gonna be anarchic and anarchic, is that the word, um, in a giant, in a giant place.

You know, in the way it would be in a tiny place like the Marriott Marquis Theater.

Yeah, you know, WrestleMania, right, if it's happening over two nights in a football stadium, is it ever gonna have the kind of looseness and energy that Raw as a warhead and, you know, an 8000 seat coliseum in Corpus Christi, Texas in 19,900.

That's a great point.

And you know what, I think that point fits WWE and I think it actually fits the draft too, like.

Obviously, the NFL you want to put them in these stadiums and it, it's been a success from that standpoint.

But if I'm in charge, put it back in Radio City, because that is where there was the chance for something crazy to happen.

I remember going a couple of years when we had the office in Midtown at, at Sports Illustrated and there was this like energy where you could feel like something like, and there would be people walking in the lobby of Radio City, NFL media people and it just, you know, now it's at a stadium with 100,000 people and it's, like you said, they've got the fans roped off and I don't know.

Very sanitized.

It's in a bigger venue yet seems sanitized that, yes, and, and like, like, is it, it's cool that it's in places like Pittsburgh.

That , that's, that is cool.

I just think it should be in like, you know, the tiny municipal auditorium in Pittsburgh that isn't, that's, you know, isn't even being used for a wrestling show anymore.

That's where I want it.

I don't want it.

I don't want some giant outside venue.

Yeah, I agree.

Since you, you mentioned WrestleMania, I'll, I'll end it with this.

I have to say, I You know, you scroll through Twitter and people say, oh, I laughed at this, or I laughed out loud at this.

I, I did laugh out loud when I saw that there was a post that Stephen A.

was at WrestleMania in Vegas, got booed.

That wasn't What was notable.

What was notable was all these people who are like, he's in Vegas at WrestleMania at the same exact time that the Knicks playoff game is starting, and then he's gonna go on First Take Monday and act like an expert.

Uh, listen, I get it.

Like ESPN has to go all out for WrestleMania and they paid a lot of money and they, they have promoted it in a way that, I mean, I'm sure you have thoughts about how many hours they've spent from it.

That's a terrible look for Stephen A.

Smith.

I'm sorry.

You're inside of Allegiant Stadium when the Knick playoff game is starting, and you're Mr.

Nick, and I know you, I watched it on my phone, it'll be the excuse.

Sorry, that's a terrible look.

Yeah, and it's just funny too, just thinking about where do you want Stephen A.

at that moment in time.

If you're ESPN, right?

Like, where do you, where do you, you know, does Stephen A.

standing up and getting booed in Vegas add to the occasion?

I can understand having him there on Friday, you know, or something, or, you know, figuring out a way to get him there in some way to kind of bless the occasion.

By the way, I gotta say this too, WWE has done such a good job of getting wrestlers on every single conceivable program that we now have people interviewing wrestlers.

Who make Arsenio and Regis back in the day look like Dave Meltzer.

I mean, these, we're just like, oh, here's this, I, I, I got a wrestler here, we're gonna talk about, this is just, I mean, they've, they've almost been too successful at infiltrating every walk of American life.

You know, there was a morning last week where Joe Tess was in, in one of the ESPN studios with Mike Greenberg, and Joe Tess is like trying to, and he goes, and this match will be unsanctioned, and I'm like, OK, you have like one of your top lead college football voices.

Trying to sell a match that's quote unquote, unsanctioned, which, like, it's not a real thing.

It's not like I know wrestling is scripted, but like, even like having him do that, I was like, I, I, I felt so embarrassed.

I was like, well, we were, my kids and I were watching that.

My son kept going, what, what does unsanctioned mean?

I was like, well, I think that means they can use a toolbox to hit each other on the head, but the WWE doesn't allow it.

That's it's happening at WrestleMania.

It's just unsanctioned, right?

Exactly.

The WWE is not approving.

The behavior, but it's a match on their pay per view.

We cannot possibly take responsibility for what's.

Yeah, um, yeah, uh, you know, I, I, I saw a little bit of backlash maybe, but there was too much WWE promotion.

I don't know.

I think it's WrestleMania.

ESPN paid a lot of money for it.

They, you know, there's always these disasters.

You hear about people trying to sign up and get the app and then, and promote it, do what you gotta.

It's fine.

We'll be OK.

OK with like 10 minutes less of NBA talk on the morning shows.

Like I, I, oh, totally, and I don't blame, I don't blame WWE at all.

No, not at all, not at all.

People can say no.

Well, maybe people at ESPN can't say no, but, but people can say no, and they're just, they, and they've done something really interesting, which is make this thing a part of American culture in a way that it had kind of fallen out of, you know, it's like, there was a moment, I think, I don't know when you put it, maybe like, 5 to 10 years ago, where it was, it was big, but it wasn't like right in the bull's eye of the things that a talk show would talk about or the guests that people would book, and man, it's back there now.

Sure is.

Yeah, ESPN and Netflix, you can't really get better partners than that if you want to promote something.

That's absolutely.

All right.

Speaking of promoting Brian Ringer, the Press Box podcast, I suggest you check it out.

Also over at the Ringer.

Appreciate you coming on.

Always a great conversation and be well.

We'll see you for the next quarterly visit in 3 months.

Thanks as always, Jimmy.

All right, take it easy.