Will the Big 12 Survive?!? | Big 12 Conference Deep Dive

All right.

Welcome to the show.

Others receiving votes, Sports Illustrated at SI.

com.

I'm Pat 40.

Here as always with Brian Fisher and Kevin Sweeney, my colleagues at SI.

And, uh, this week, we're talking Big 12.

We've been going through the power conferences week by week.

Uh, if you want to catch up on that, we did the ACC, we did the SEC, we did the Big 10.

And now we are doing the Big 12.

We're taping this Monday morning.

The Brendan Sorsby eligibility injunction hearing is underway in Lubbock.

Uh, so we probably won't have any update on that in this show, but stay tuned for developments there.

We'll hit it.

Uh, and gentlemen, just very quickly right off the top, why is everybody so pissed off at Texas Tech?

Well I, I'll, I'll throw that back to you.

I mean, uh, it seems like, uh, the, the entire league and, uh, not only the entire league, the entire entirety of college athletics seems to be hating on the Red Raiders.

I, I, I, I don't know.

I don't know, Pat.

Yeah, it's uh it's something.

Kevin, why is everybody so mad?

I'm actually sort of surprised this hasn't come earlier, right?

Like, not, not only are you the sort of outside the power to structure, throw money at the problem, we're richer than you, we can, we can, we can buy our way to to success.

Then you have, like, Cody Campbell on all these committees and uh running around, like he's sort of act like actual, like, he has a real job in college athletics, you know, like, he's not an athletic director, he's not a, it's there's no, no offense to Cody Campbell, like, it's.

The guy, the guy, the guy's like part lawmaker, part athletic director, part, you know, part lead booster, part general manager, uh, so I, I guess I'm not surprised that this has come and sort of expected it would come sooner rather than later, but, yeah, add in this, the gambling saga and, uh, yeah, we've, we've just got, we've got quite the, uh, quite the mess down in Lubbock, it seems.

Yeah, I, I think Brett Omar actually came out at one point and said Cody Campbell is not the commissioner of the Big 12, because he was somewhat comporting himself like he was.

Uh, so, yeah, a little bit of a Lubbock power trip.

It's interesting.

Things are, they're feeling so chesty, and Cody in particular, that Friday night on Twitter, he was, uh, challenging some loudmouth Texas fan to an Oklahoma drill in his backyard, as he said, all I need is a jockstrap and Miller Lite.

So that is definitely I would, I would pay for some streaming of, of that, like, you know, you talk about some of those things that media rights revenue that holy moly, do we pull that one or how does that work?

Good question there.

Yes, Cody Campbell, the champion of pooling media rights.

Um, anyhow, uh, fascinating times in the, in the Big 12, is, it's kind of they just have been perpetually, it seems like , since the, uh, the departure of Oklahoma and Texas.

Uh, the league is just, uh, it's, it's certainly, it's maintained, it survived.

There were questions whether that would even happen originally.

Um, it added members, it's solidified.

I'm not sure it's elevated.

So that gets us to our first question here, gentlemen.

If I can find my rundown.

Uh, state of the Big 12, where is it in the hierarchy?

Going up, going down, holding steady.

Kevin, what do you think?

Yeah, I, I, I think it's 4, of the power 4 at the moment, um, just behind the ACC.

I, I think.

The lack of true kind of legacy brands is hurting them, especially on the gridiron.

I think basketball is, is certainly a strength, um, of theirs that they've been able to, to leverage, and I think will continue to.

They have some incredible programs, some well-resourced programs, uh, in that sport, and, and programs that have continued to elevate here of late.

But, yeah, I, I do think you start to feel the, the lack of quality at the top in football, um, pretty substantially, and, and as you said, like, I, I think they, they made survivalist plays, maybe more so than, um, you know, grand gambles that could have either, you know, brought them to the top or left them out of business, right?

And I think as a league, I think you feel pretty good about that, like, there's a lot of schools in this, in, in this league they're probably are pretty happy to make whatever it is, $30 million in television revenue and play on big networks and have a chance to make the college football playoffs, and have a chance to make the NCAA tournament, go deep in the NCAA tournament, like, I, I think for the majority of the Big 12 membership right now, the, uh, the situation is probably, uh, as you would hope, um, whether that changes in the future as, you know, there's another round of realignment or, you know, the TV money continues to skyrocket, maybe for the power too.

I think that's an open question, but, um, I, I don't think this spot, even if it is, you know, certainly 3 or 4 and, and probably more 4 than 3 in the power conference hierarchy.

I don't think it's bad for the majority of the Big 12 membership.

Uh, it's just maybe not the most exciting place to be, uh, in, in the current world of college athletics.

Yeah, I, I would agree with that kind of assessment.

I mean, look, you know, in, in terms of the metrics, like, all right, if we're talking revenue, they're behind the ACC in that, and, and obviously, you know, it's quite a distance away from the power two in terms of the Big 10 .

In the SEC, you know, in terms of, you know, national title contenders in football.

There's really only kind of one in Texas Tech that is spinning at a level that is capable of not only maybe making a semifinal, but, you know, kind of contending for a potential football national title.

We're talking about national brands, you know, really, there's kind of BYU and kind of everybody else, so a little more regional of a conference.

I think that kind of puts them behind the eight ball, um, even in terms of comparing them to the ACC, which is obviously their most direct competitor, not only in the Power Four, but I, I think nationally in terms of, all right, there's going to be jockeying.

Yes, they are, there's some, some success.

I mean, we're seeing it in, in softball, we're seeing it certainly in basketball with the way they've been able to build their brand, but Um, you know, I, I think if you would objectively look at the league as a whole, um, it has done well to survive, like you mentioned, Pat, but, uh, you know, survival does come at a cost in terms of , you've lost your two biggest flagship brands that have been there from the beginning, um, you know, 25 years ago now, um, in, in terms of where, where the, where the league was in terms of having those kind of, uh, horses you can.

Get your wagon to.

They, they just aren't there.

And I think that's presented some opportunities for a lot of these schools to kind of move up and move up in the pecking order and, uh, kind of rise to the top in the Big 12.

But at the same time, it does kind of put kind of an almost artificial glass ceiling in terms of what this league is ultimately capable of being moving forward.

And that's kind of why they are, uh, to, to Kevin's point, closer to 4 than 3 at this point.

Yeah, I think they're, they're a solid 4, which, again, it, it, I think you guys uh articulate, isn't bad, it's better to be 4 than 5, that's for sure, cause that's when things really drop off .

But, uh, I think it's, there's also some distance between them and the ACC uh in 3rd.

Now, I mean, if, if we're certainly, if, if we're looking at the, the whole thing, they're , they're really good in basketball, and we'll get to that, and several other sports as well.

But football being the, the bell cow that it is, and There's a lot of parity there outside of Texas Tech, and going into 2026, Texas Tech is looming as a giant question mark, depending what happens in Lubbock District Court.

So, you know, uh, it, it's fascinating.

I think there's so much potential fluidity.

In the league.

And we've seen it, you know, Arizona State won the championship last year, 2 years ago, Texas Tech this last year and Texas Tech elevated up to become a, a top 4 seed in the playoffs.

But BYU's been there, Utah's been around, um, Iowa State, when it had Matt Campbell, it doesn't now.

We'll get to that.

Uh, there's, there's, Colorado had a, had one season that was really good.

Um, there's, there's competitiveness week in and week out, I think.

They're fun, it's a fun conference.

You, you don't look at them and say, well, they're gonna put 4 teams in the playoffs or anything like that.

But if you want it week to week drama, um, close games, unexpected outcomes, I think the, the Big 12 is gonna deliver, continue to deliver that, um, pretty consistently.

So, you know, it is what it is.

The Brett Yourmark, I think he's been a good commissioner for them.

He's different.

He thinks he's off the wall sometimes.

He's got the big ideas, sometimes they don't work.

The infamous glass floor for the basketball tournament, not so great.

They established a, a private equity deal that nobody seems to want.

Uh, they were gonna play basketball in Mexico City, that didn't happen, etc.

and so on.

They, they flirted with UConn and nobody said, no, we don't want UConn.

So, I, I, I, I give you yourmark credit for saying, hey, we're just gonna try some stuff.

And some of it's gonna work, and some of it isn't.

And when it doesn't work, fine, push back at me membership, and we'll go a different direction.

So, I think he's been good for the league.

I'm still not convinced he's a 10-year, fifteen-year commissioner.

You know, he's, he's kind of a college sports outsider, but we'll see.

It's been an interesting run for him and for the conference.

All right, uh, obviously, we're gonna talk football here, uh, specifically.

Uh, Brian, what are the league's strengths from a football standpoint?

Well, you know, in terms of strength, I, I think it's from, from top to bottom, one of the most competitive conferences in the country, and, and, uh, you'll see, hear the coaches say that, you'll see, hear the 80s say that.

You'll hear Brett McAmark say that, and, um, frankly, it's, it's probably true, you know, really, it does feel like every Saturday.

Every Big 12 game is a coin flip, you know, and in terms of the number of games that do come down to a field goal or, you know, a touchdown or one possession game, um, you know, it's, it's, it's as competitive as, as you can get.

And, uh, we , we see upsets all the time in this league.

Um, you know, teams going on the road is, is definitely a challenge, especially some of the environments.

Uh, I mean, going into Stillwater and, you know, the Little Apple and, and Provo, some of these places are, are difficult environments to, to win it.

And, That's credit to their fan bases, certainly, but, you know, also credit to how, how compressed the league is.

There's nobody that really, outside of maybe Texas Tech pulling away from the pack, um, you know, tremendously .

Now, I think that's, that gets you back into the, the, the issue with the Big 12 in general , you know, in terms of not having, uh, the, the number of, uh, college football playoff contenders that you would ultimately like to have out of that group that is so competitive.

Yes, Texas Tech is there.

BYU has been knocking on the door, uh, certainly in the past two years.

They're gonna be back again this year.

Um, And, and I think truthfully, it's gonna come down to, um, you know, whether the Big 12 can get past, you know, one or two bids in the playoffs.

It's gonna come down to some of these new coaches too, uh, getting their, their programs aligned, getting their programs invested in terms of the roster resources and seeing what they can do on the field.

I mean, that's, that's gonna be the big question mark.

I think hovering over the Big 12 moving forward is it's kind of in a narrow transition, uh, on the coaching front.

You have, uh, you know, certainly a big change at Utah, uh, Colin Klein coming in at Kansas State.

Big fan of Eric Morris, but we'll see what he can do there at Oklahoma State after so many years of, of, I would say overachieving there for Mike Gundy.

You know, what is that program gonna look like?

Dave Aranda is on the hot seat for Baylor going forward.

So what is, what is Baylor going to do?

Uh, you know, you, you got the coaching transitions all around, certainly Dion's health issues at Colorado.

Um, you know , top of mind, Scott Satterfield seems like he's outrunning the, uh, The, uh, the old buyout knife at, at some point, uh, seemingly every season at this point, uh, they're in Cincinnati.

Like it's, it's a, it's a fascinating collection.

And then you also have some established guys that have, have a track record, uh, at Sonny Dykes at TCU.

So, um, I, I, I think it's a fascinating league and I think that does kind of end up, um, you know, really making it a week to week.

You, you got to watch the Big 12 because, uh, every game is gonna be.

Competitive and every game is gonna be fun and you're gonna see something on the football field, uh, that frankly, you don't, you don't see, uh, all too often in other leagues and that, that, that can be good for the entertainment value, but in terms of actually nationally contending and, and making sure that Big 12 brand is there at the end of the year come January, um, you know, it's, it's not quite where, where, where they want to be, uh, from the Big 12 country.

Yeah, I, I, I think the Big 12 should be the loudest advocate for a 2014 playoff, because there's a lot of good and not a lot of great, and I do think because there is this power vacuum, maybe outside of Texas Tech that has, you know, clearly established itself resource wise as the, the top bidder in the league, right?

Like, I think, I think there's lots of reasons to invest up and down the league, right?

Like, especially if you get to a point where the playoffs are a little bit bigger, that's a little bit more margin for error.

If you're 10 and 2 in the Big 12 in a 2014 playoff, you're gonna make the playoffs.

Like, I think, I, I think pretty confidently, those teams get in.

I think right now, you know, the challenge is, yeah, on one hand, yes, there's reason to invest because you can win the league and get to the playoffs that way, but, yes, if you're gonna be walking a tightrope, where if you lose one or two games that you probably shouldn't, um, Yeah, we, we, we did all this for a, you know, a trip to the Alamo Bowl, right?

And that's not the most exciting way to live.

Uh, I, I, I, I think, again, I, I, I, I do think that there's real opportunity in this kind of parody environment, and I do think that a lot of these programs still have kind of upside to tap into.

I think we've seen what, what's happened with, with BYU.

That was a place I think a lot of people felt like.

Um, could be really good when it joined the Big 12.

I don't think people expected it to get this good this fast, both in football and in men's basketball.

Uh, Obviously, the money has been a component of that, um, but that is something, you know, that is a program that I think is, is on the rise, uh, certainly, and, and still has real room to grow.

I, I, I like where Arizona is headed, Arizona State as well, certainly.

Um, I think those have been positives, really, the the entire Pac-12 group, uh, what was it called, the Four Corners.

Um, yeah, they, they, they have really been positive additions, um, particularly on the gridiron, I think faster than a lot of people would have expected, and, you know, I, I don't think Utah is going anywhere, certainly, they're, they're, they're part of that group as well.

That's a, it's a really strong football brand.

So, um, I think those are the reasons to feel optimistic and if we are headed to a 24 team.

Playoff environment, which I don't know if it's a guarantee, but I know we've certainly talked about it on this podcast, it's probably more likely than not at this point, um, then, yeah, like, that, that, that, that certainly, um, is going for the Big 12 because there will be opportunity in that league to, to climb and have real access to that, that postseason format long term.

Yeah, a lot of good, not a lot of great, and that, that, that is who, that's the, the 2014 wheelhouse right there, so.

Uh, it would suit them.

Doesn't suit me, doesn't suit a lot of other people, but if you're the Pac, if you're the Big 12, for sure.

Uh, one thing I, I forgot to do, which is, uh, my apologies for this.

Somebody would have complained if I didn't get back to this, I promise you.

Uh, the Big 12 spring meetings with the Omni PGA resort in Frisco, Texas.

They didn't get to an ocean, which leaves them, you know, terribly behind the ACC that was at the Ritz-Carlton and Amelia Island.

Uh, the Big 10 that was at the Tirania overlooking the Pacific, and, uh, the SEC, uh, overlooking the Gulf of Mexico, uh, and the panhandle of Florida.

So, you know, that, that's just a huge, huge gap there, not getting an ocean view, but still, very nice place.

Uh, you can experience the Lexus lifestyle at Nomni PGA Frisco Resort, with exclusive access to elite models like the GX 550 and the LC 500.

I guess you just show up, check-in, and they give you a Lexus to drive around.

Seems pretty cool.

Uh, two championship golf courses, we got a spa, of course.

I don't know whether we have the $340 like, Uh, salt spa thing that, that they had at the Big 10, but plenty of amenities there as well as once again, nobody has any money until it's time to have a meeting for all of the conference, uh, higher ups.

So congratulations , Big 12, on finding a good place for your meeting.

Uh, as far as the guy, like I, everything, uh, you guys said, uh, I think is, is clear and true about the, the good parts of the conference, the, the, the strengths.

Uh, I will say, Kelani Satake and Kenny Dillingham both had chances to go elsewhere for other jobs.

Both stayed at their alma maters at BYU and at Arizona State.

I think that's big for them.

Kelani Satake talked to uh Penn State about that job and said, nope, I'm staying.

Uh, the new hires that were made, younger guys, uh, Eric Morris is 40 years old at Oklahoma State.

Jimmy Rodgers, who was at San Diego State and Washington State, is 39.

He's now replacing Matt Campbell.

Colin Klein, the, uh, the former quarterback hero at K-S State, is back as the head coach at age 36.

Morgan Scally is 46 at Utah.

Um, replacing Kyle Whittingham, big shoes to fill there.

But, you know, I think some new blood, some new energy in the league there in those places at play, uh, certainly at Oklahoma State, K-State, possibly even Utah, you could argue, things have gotten a little bit stale and it was time for something new, and so they've got that.

Um, and we'll just see if they can, they can show up in the non-conference again.

They, they, they kicked the behind of the ACC in non-conference play last year, uh, which I think was significant in kind of helping the league's credibility there.

So, uh, plenty, obviously, I still think going for the league, even if there are some things that aren't, let's get to that, uh, weaknesses.

In the Big 12, and I think it, it, it starts with, with the best team, and with Texas Tech and what's going on with Brendan Soresby, the quarterback they paid many millions of dollars to come over from league compatriot Cincinnati.

Uh, and he is fighting for his eligibility life.

I don't think it looks good unless the, you got an absolute guns up fanboy judge who just says, I don't care.

I'm ruling him eligible.

Um, but as was reported over the weekend by SI and other places, he bet over $90,000 in his college career.

He was still betting when he transferred to Texas Tech.

Indiana, Cincinnati, and tech.

Uh, he placed 40 bets on Indiana football while he was an Indiana football player.

There's a lot there.

There, that is a, all these are all just massive problems.

And when this guy was, he was set up to be the face of the best team, and then by extension, the face of the conference.

And I don't think he's gonna play.

So that is a problem, and that's your Bell Cow team there.

So that further opens it up, but it also further, I think, lowers the ceiling on the league.

What do you guys think?

Oh, absolutely .

I mean, I, I think it's, uh, I, I don't think Texas Tech is in a rough spot.

You know, they do have Will Hammond.

He's coming back off the ACL injury.

Uh, you know, Joey, Joey McGuire this, this past week kind of said that, uh, he should be good to go, you know, maybe not week one, but, uh, possibly right after that, they did bring in a Tulsa transfer.

So I think they'll be OK at quarterback.

But, um, look, if you think you have a roster that's built to contend, not just in the Big 12, but to, to do the damage, you know, the, the, the reason they brought in Brendan Soresby was to get over the hump.

We, we saw the offensive.

Struggles in that Orange Bowl against Oregon.

That's what they want to get that passed, right?

And that, that's why this move was made in the offseason and then to, you know, to lose it, um, you know, before even getting to a spring ball, you know, at this point.

Um, I, I think that's, that's a huge blow to not only Texas Tech, but really the Big 12's, you know, hopes of, uh, carrying that logo, you know, into the semifinals or, you know, at least remaining deeper into January in the college football playoff discussion because, frankly, that, that's what you are being judged on, you know, as a League.

It's great that you do have some, a lot of those head to head non-conference victories against the ACC and others, you know , but it does come down to, uh, those ultimate bragging rights, uh, come bowl season.

And, um , frankly, that's where the Big 12 has to do some work.

You know, if there's one weakness, it, it is making sure that they are more impactful, have more teams in the playoff discussion deeper into the year.

And, um, and, and I think that's why, you know, to Kevin's point earlier, you know, that's why they are probably the biggest proponent of, of the 24 teamer because, um, you know, we, we, We saw it in some of the numbers, you know, they would have had 5 teams in a 2014 team format last year, and, uh, that does speak to the depth of the league, um, you know, especially in, in, in terms of that kind of top half of the league, but, uh, you know, where those, those teams would end up actually winning some of those games, I think would, would be, uh, open for debate, but, uh, that, that's where the Big 12 kind of stands and, and, and probably where they have to do the most work is, is kind of overcoming things in terms of that elite level football teams and, uh, you know, you could probably even extend that into basketball as well.

I mean, I, I was prepared to make a point that, you know, if there's skepticism about tech and how strong they truly are, it will hurt the team that maybe beats them in their playoff resume, and then I looked through, I'm like, I still don't know who's beating them, or, or, or if they will, are they good enough to make the playoffs?

I mean, look, you have Houston at home, Arizona State at home, Arizona at home, I think all of those teams theoretically may have some teeth, uh, all of those teams may theoretically be good enough to make a Big 12 championship game, but like, No one, I, I just don't really see a world where you're building two playoff caliber resumes in this conference, especially if Texas Tech isn't seen as like a, a world beater that you're losing to them in the Big 12 championship game is, is not so, um, so harmful, and so I, I worry that essentially the league ceiling this year, if in a Soarsby list tech world is.

Very similar to last year, which is, uh, a couple of very good teams, uh, the winner of the Big 12 championship game will get in, the loser will be just a bit short, and a team that probably in Texas Tech was never going to win the national championship, and I think, you know, I think Texas Tech can be very good.

I would be absolutely shocked if a Brennan Soarsby less Texas Tech team, uh.

Wins the national championship this year, right?

They, they, it was very clear they didn't have the horses last year.

I don't think they do this year if they don't have their superstar quarterback.

And so, um, that, that is the big weakness, and, you know, how do we, how do we climb out of that hole, right?

Especially if we are, are headed towards an environment with any more structure, um, like Texas Tech seems to be able to buy, buy their way to the top 10 rosters wise in college football.

I don't think there's anyone else in the big 12 right now that has the pockets to do that.

Maybe BYU does, but BYU has, it's much more difficult in football than basketball to build a team like that at BYU, right?

I think BYU could be, you know, a top 20 roster, that may be good enough under Satake, who's a really good coach, and uh they've obviously got a tremendous culture, they're, they're really disciplined, but like, you're not building like an SEC offensive and defensive line at BYU the way you can at Texas Tech, and I think that's the The challenge ahead is, is how, how do you build these, these really excellent teams, and, you know, even when you do, like Texas Tech teams do, you're, you're not immune from, um, potential bumps in the road, like this, uh, like this gambling saga, although we hope that these do not become regular instances, let's make that very clear.

Yes, let's hope.

We don't, we don't want a bunch of Brendan Soursby stories out there, by the way.

Um, I alluded to Art Schlier a couple of podcasts ago talking about Soresby.

Unfortunately, after reading a little more and understanding more of the details, There might be a little more parallel there than anybody wants to, to be comfortable with, but hopefully not for the young man's sake.

Um, we'll say, I, I, I think the line of scrimmage is extremely important in this league, and especially the defensive line, and that's where I thought Texas Tech.

Separated itself last year, and front seven, just speed, athleticism, power that, that a lot of other places could not uh contend with.

And so that's where I think the league still has some, uh, some distance to go.

I, I, I didn't, I was, I didn't mention, but I was, like the quarterbacking in the league is really interesting, OK.

Noah Fafita stayed at Arizona.

He could be a Heisman candidate if they have a great season.

Devin Dampier stayed at Utah.

Bear Bockmeyer's back at BYU, Juju Lewis, Colorado, DJ Lagway comes in at Baylor, Avery Johnson, maybe things finally get right with the new coach there, Colin Klein at K State.

Uh, Keyshawn Henderson, five-star recruit, stayed home at Houston.

I don't know whether he's gonna be ready right away, but that's fascinating.

But again, they, yes, they've got to get better, I think at the line of scrimmage.

Um, they've got to get some non-conference skins on the wall, and the biggest one, just glaring sitting out there, Notre Dame at BYU October 17th.

If you want to try to elevate a team, whether they win the league or not, but maybe to get a second team.

If BYU doesn't win the league, but you beat Notre Dame and you end up sitting there 11-1, 10-2, last year, everybody at BYU was ticked off that they weren't ahead of Notre Dame already.

Well, here's your chance to play them because USC chickened out.

So, that suddenly appears as an opportunity for them, uh, and could be a, a really big one in Provo.

All right, let's talk some hoops.

Um , Kevin, what are the league's strengths in, in basketball?

I mean, they, they've got a lot of them, they, they feel really great about where they're positioned, uh, again, the, the, the realignment moves, I think have helped marginally in football, they've helped a lot in basketball, not that the league wasn't great before.

But, I mean, I don't think anyone could have predicted after, you know, really over a decade of Kansas just wrecking the league, that these newcomers could come in and go toe to toe slash be even better.

I mean , Houston comes up from the American and, and the, the talk was all, man.

Like Houston, this is a different world for Houston.

Like how are they gonna keep up with the big dogs or the Big 12?

Well, they've gone 32 and 5, 35 and 5, 30 and 7.

They're a combined.

Uh, what, 48-8 in Big 12 play.

Pretty good.

They have been ridiculously good.

Uh, Arizona has, you know, oh, the Pac-12 basketball was very weak, this is gonna be a real step up to go hang with the big dogs.

Well, uh, 16 and 2, 14 and 6, 15 and 5, or excuse me , just only 2 years, so 16 and 2, 14 and 6, so 30 and 8, we'll take that.

A Final Four, a Sweet 16 will take that.

Um, they've been excellent.

So, um, the league.

It is different now, right?

When you, when I think about the old Big 12, if you will, it was, it was the depth, it was the double round robin, um, everybody's really good, Kansas is the only great.

Now, we've got a lot of great, we've got a softer bottom.

Um, it's been fascinating to watch that emerge, but, um, yeah, the league has a number of powers and in a world where I know Brett Ymark has spoken quite a bit about how he believes basketball is sort of an undervalued asset in, in, in the state of affairs in college athletics.

Uh, I, I, I agree with him.

Um, I, I think there's a real opportunity to build with what they have, because it's not just really good teams, it's some, some great brands and, uh, again, a league where you feel like you get some high, high-level games, pretty much every week, uh, in, in the basketball schedule, which is hard to pull off.

Yeah, I mean, you know, big money in the Big 12 is, uh, you know, must-see TV certainly in, in the season because there is always, it seems like a great top 10 matchup.

And I think that does speak to the, the depth of the league, but you also you have probably, I would say 2.5, you know, truly elite spenders, um, you know, with, with what, you know, you're assembling and then the, the collection of coaches.

I mean, um, you know, yes, you have the the Bill Selves and, um, you know, certainly it was, it was big for Arizona, uh, to retain Tommy Lloyd, but like, you know, you look at BYU and, and what, uh, Kevin Young has been able to do.

Um, you certainly, there's new, a new change, you know, bringing in in Randy Bennett at ASU if Scott Drew at at Baylor.

I mean, this is a, a league where every week, you know, you're gonna face up a, a, a good coach.

And I think that does speak to, um, you know, how difficult it is almost to, to break through.

I mean, if you're a, a Utah, Kansas State, uh, Oklahoma State, some of these teams that do have decent collections of talent, pretty good coaches, you know, it can still be difficult to kind of break into that upper tier in the Big 12.

And, um, you know, I think it does.

Uh, make it difficult probably for, for some movement within the conference, but, um, the, the strength is right there in terms of these teams, you know, there's gonna be 3 or 4 every single year that are not only in threats to win, you know, get to the Final Four, but, but really win a national title, you know, if things break their way.

Especially how, how we've kind of seen the, the top of college basketball be compacted just a little bit, um, in terms of returning guys, how you, how you build your roster, that sort of thing.

So I think the Big 12, certainly well positioned and, and I would agree with big, uh , Brett your mark in terms of maybe things are a little bit undervalued.

Um, I, I, I think the, the roots of this conference is certainly in Texas, but, um, you know, there's so many big basketball fans, uh, throughout these, these fan bases, and you see this in a, in a lot of those environments as well.

Um, and I think it's gonna be interesting to see how, how the Big 12 product moving forward can kind of manage things where you're trying to, trying to raise that bottom up a little bit while also, you know, catering to your elite teams that you know can, can continue to, uh, to carry that Big 12 brand deep into March.

Yeah, it's, uh, I mean, it's an outstanding league, obviously.

I do think it's important, Tommy Lloyd, as you noted, Brian's staying at Arizona, but also TJ Otzelberger at Iowa State.

Two guys whose names were certainly, at least in the, the speculation for North Carolina and other places, and I'm like, Otzelberger has made Iowa State a destination.

It's, it's, it's fascinating to me that the rock solid stability there.

Uh, Texas Tech is very consistently good in hoops as well.

We haven't mentioned them, but.

It's good.

And Brian, I, uh, Kevin, I'm sorry, I have one question for you.

Mila Momsillovich, who, who may also be deciding any minute now where, what he's going to do, is not gonna go back to Iowa State, with, he, he came out of the draft, uh, and now, you know, Kentucky and Louisville and the state where I live are all the, every fan is like, just pounding refresh on the internet, like to find out where Milan is going to go.

Was going back to Iowa State not an option for him?

If not, why?

Uh, my understanding was essentially that I, I think both sides sort of acknowledged, like, they couldn't deal with the uncertainty for a few months, like Iowa State couldn't, if, if Iowa State was gonna make a semi-competitive offer financially, which at the time probably would have been like 3 to 4, and now the market is like 6 to 7 for him, um, which is, you know, rich, but let's, let's just say like, OK, Iowa State would have tied up $4 million on April 1st for, for Milan, like.

You know, and then he didn't come back.

He wanted to go through the draft process pretty aggressively, and I think there was a feeling, like, all right, like, if you're gonna do that, we gotta part ways and you gotta go get paid somewhere else if you're gonna go come back to college.

So I don't think it was a criticism of anybody, I think everybody leaves happy with the with the outcome.

Iowa State signed replacements within a week, uh, but they like to get their work done quick.

So I think that was the, the, the, the, the cause of that and why he'll be at a uh a Blue Blood next year.

There we go.

All right, Milan, my apologies, not Milan, Milan, uh, Momsillovich, and, uh.

67 million, he's a good player.

He is not Larry Joe Bird, to the best of my knowledge.

Being the last guy available for a great team is, uh, is always a, someone gets paid very handsomely every year in that spot.

Coleman Hawkins a couple of years ago, I'm trying to think of who it was last year, but there's always one who's like, all right, and you look back, you're like, wow, that guy really got overpaid relative to the market, but supply and demand, baby, supply and demand.

Absolutely.

The last good looking person in the singles bar at closing time.

Somebody's gonna, somebody's gonna take a big swing.

So it's good for Milan for getting paid.

Congratulations.

All right, weaknesses in the league, Kevin.

Yeah, I mean, I think as great as the coaching crop is, there is, um, you know, some ends approaching.

Bill Self is probably not long for the game.

What does Kansas look like without him, um, it's the, it's a great program, they will win, I have no question about that, but Look, there are other teams on the same playing field as them now in this conference, and that will only get more challenging when they don't have a Hall of Fame coach potentially on their sideline.

Kelvin Sampson is probably also end approaching the next couple of years.

They have a lot of confidence in Kellen, his son, to be the successor.

We have seen the succession plans go not so great in the past.

We'll see how that goes.

Um, Baylor has slipped a little bit under Scott Drew.

Uh, they're not at the national championship caliber, uh, that they have been at, uh, in the past.

We'll see if uh the return of Jerome Tang as an assistant maybe helps with that.

Um, he was very important to that.

Uh, entire infrastructure.

But yeah, I think that would be, if you're laying out the concern, it's like, could you end up with an ACC style brain drain of coaches, especially, again, you mentioned TJ and Tommy turned down jobs this past spring or turned down interest from jobs.

Does that happen forever?

Um, Kevin Young is supposedly on the Early shortlist for the Bulls job.

I do not expect from my sources that he ends up being the guy for the Bulls, but, like, if he continues to have success at BYU, um, NBA teams will be circling.

Uh, and so that would be the risk is that, what, in, in, in 2 years, you look around and it's a dramatically different, uh, collection of coaches and Quite frankly, there are not a lot of the market has been somewhat tapped of coaching replacements because there has been so much turnover in the sport over the last couple of years.

So, it would not be the time I would want many of my top programs to be entering the market, and that's, that would be my concern at Big 12 Live, but otherwise it's, it's in a very strong position, uh, going forward.

Well I, I, I would just say the, in terms of the weaknesses, you know, it, it kind of shared amongst the rest of college sports at this point in terms of what's the resources that are gonna be devoted to basketball.

You know, you, you look at a lot of these places like I mean, Utah is just, if, if they're gonna have a dollar to spend, it's probably going to go towards football, you know, the same at places like TCU.

Um, you certainly have people coming up that have made this transition in the Big 12, finally getting, uh, full shares of, of, of the revenue, uh, this, this, uh, you know, upcoming year, uh, fiscal year in terms of like UCF, you know, how, how much are they actually going to spend on basketball to try to make that leap from mediocre to OK to, to, to be even better.

Um, you know, certainly Johnny Dawkins, he, he just got an extension, uh, other places like TCU.

Um, you know, certainly, uh, we, we've seen what Kansas has done.

What's Kansas State going to do in terms of some of those roster building mechanisms, uh, for these schools and, you know, how, how much truthfully resources are they going to devote to being good at men's basketball?

You can have all the great coaching and, and all the great development and all the great scouting that you want, but, uh, this is still a sport much like football that is gonna come down to, uh, can you spend an elite level in the, in the, in the rosters?

And, um, that's gonna be the, the big choice for a lot of these, uh, you know, Big 12 schools, Big 12 athletic departments in terms of, all right, where are we going to put our Resources to where we know that we can compete at a high level.

Um, you know, given the, the, how compact things are in the, in the football, uh, standings, I, I think they're, they're gonna probably end up devoting a little bit more towards that, that in outside of places like Arizona and Kansas that, uh, we know are not only traditional powers in, in, in, in that sport, but also want to invest at a, at a high level in men's basketball.

So I think that's gonna be the, the push and pull for a lot of these Big 12 programs moving forward is how much are these coaches, as good as they are going to be able to spend on their rosters moving forward.

Yeah, good points by both of you guys.

Uh, turnover coming, and are the dollars going to keep coming?

And Uh, I, I look at the eastern wing.

I would add a couple of more aging coaches, uh, who have done good work, who may be about at the end, Kevin and Johnny Dawkins and Tad Boyle, as well at UCF and at Colorado.

Uh, for what it's worth, Tad Boyle was the stud high school player in Colorado when I was like a freshman basketball player.

He was a senior and everybody thought, man, he's the best.

He's going to Kansas.

Yeah , didn't play much at Kansas.

It tells you how good the rest of us were.

Um, anyhow, no, that I think coaching turnover, obviously, and, and, yeah, people like, really think highly of Jacques Vaughn, but is he gonna win like Bill Self?

People think highly of Kellen Sampson, is he gonna win like his dad?

That, those are massive shoes to fill at those places.

So, we'll see how that goes.

I also, again, I look at the, the, the eastern wing, and I want, I want a little more out of Cincinnati and West Virginia.

And I think Cincinnati made a good hire in Jared Calhoun.

I think he will get them going there, but that's a good basketball school and a good basketball area.

They shouldn't wallow as badly as they have.

Uh, West Virginia, a lot of pride in the program there as well.

Uh, I think they're getting up off the mat, but can they, how, how, how far up can they climb in a league this difficult?

All right.

What is the tentpole Olympic sport?

I'm going to ask you guys, can you guess what I'm going to name?

I'll give you one guess for both of you.

Go ahead.

Are you, are you gonna, I, I was gonna say swimming, uh, maybe given ASU, but in, in your, your proclivities, but I maybe, maybe softball would, would be one I'd throw out there.

Kevin.

I was thinking about potentially volleyball, but I don't know how great the top is there.

Skiing, of course.

Utah and Colorado are the two best skiing programs in the country.

They are an absolute dynasty.

Between the two of them, they have won every championship since 2018.

Most of them Utah, Utah in 2019, 2021, 202022, 202003, 2025, 20206, Colorado in 2024.

Uh, shockingly, where the mountains are is where the good skiing is.

The only school outside of the Rockies that's won a championship in like forever is Vermont in 2012.

So, Utah, which people, if people want to get uptight, and I don't think you should about international athletes coming in and taking scholarships from the Americans, well, that, that, that whole team, they're all from like Europe somewhere, but But they win.

They're really good.

Well, that's not, that's not a conference sport, Pat.

I think we, we need to make the adjustment, and, and I, I would just say it's funny that Utah is so dominant and like BYU is, is nothing.

Like they, they might have just as, as good access to, to, to getting up to Park City as, as you, same mountains, right?

They're right there.

Might make you, it might be harder to do it on the weekends though.

That might be.

No Sunday skiing there.

No, yeah, good call.

Good call.

Uh, softball, we'll see if Texas Tech ends up winning the softball when they're not like provoking fights or maybe, I don't know if they're provoking or being provoked, but the, the crossfire with Florida and now with Tennessee, uh, again, this is like Texas Tech versus everybody right now and, uh, baseball is not bad either, you know, baseball's not bad either.

No, baseball's good.

I mean, they're, you know, they got a lot of good sports, frankly, golf, they're good.

Like Oklahoma State's good in a bunch of different stuff.

Um , all right, how secure is the commissioner, Brian Kevin Brett Ym?

Well, you, you know, you spoke to it earlier in terms of, you know, is he, is he gonna be a guy long term, you know, and I think, uh, you, you don't get that impression, you know, from, from Brett in terms of, is, is he gonna be like, uh, you know, come in, you know, 567 years at, at this point , and then, uh, you know.

To a kind of bigger award, you know, better job outside of college athletics, and I think that's probably the, the thing that's, that's top of mind for a lot of people around the Big 12 is how long is, is gonna be around.

Now, we probably could have, could have said that about somebody like Larry Scott and he ends up staying, you know, a decade plus, you know, in the Pac-12.

Is it gonna be like that?

So I think there's kind of the question marks around.

Does he want to do something else, you know, long term?

You know, I think that's, that's probably the, the thing hanging over him.

I, I, I think generally he's pretty well liked around the league.

I, I don't think they're looking to move on from him.

You know, he does try to push the envelope, um, that does run into problems like, you know, when, when it comes to expansion and targeting, you know, programs like UConn, he did not have the votes, even though he wanted to do that.

He did not have the votes from the board.

Um, you know, I think he is trying to push some pretty conservative presidents to, to do more, um, you know, certainly the athletic directors as well, um, you know, to, to be innovative, uh, do things outside of the box to, to draw attention to the Big 12.

I think a lot of people like that around, uh, around the league, but also understand that, um, you know, progress in college athletics sometimes moves slowly, and I think that, that kind of push and pull.

Between Brett wanting to go 100 miles an hour and the league wanting, wanting to assess their options, uh, as best as they can, how it fits their own individual schools, um, is probably where, where any conflict comes from.

And I, I think that's normal.

I think it's probably healthy at this point for, for the Big 12 to do that given, uh, how, how the league has been assembled these last couple of years.

And, um, you know, frankly, it's, I, I think it's still pretty good in terms of where he's at relative to the league.

I think everybody likes him.

Uh, they like how he communicates, you know, back and forth, and I, I think I, I would say he's, he's safe, uh, certainly from, from, uh, uh, you know, he, he's not under threat like, uh, you know, Dan Beebe was years ago, uh, when everything was going down.

I, I think, uh, he certainly solidified himself in the position, but, ultimately, how long is he going to be in that?

I think it's the, the one thing that kind of hovers over everything related to Brett Yourmark and his tenure at the Big 12.

Well, I think it's also a question of like, what's next?

I mean, they've they've tackled a lot of big weighty stuff, um, you know, obviously, you never stopped thinking about TV deals, but, you know, they have a few years before that's a a real conversation, um, you know, private equity is, is not that like he, he's made his move there, at least his initial one.

Um, and that hasn't seemingly been an overly drastic shift, but it, it was a deal nonetheless.

Uh, I don't imagine they'll be taking on private equity deals left and right.

I think you, you, you only get so many shots at that one.

So, yeah, I think, I think that's the real question, like, what more does he feel like he needs to accomplish or wants to accomplish?

What more can he accomplish because he has been so aggressive pushing big ideas.

Um, and then from there, like, yeah, like, what is the appetite from the presidents and the athletic directors to continue to kind of ride the, the your mark roller coaster, and if, if it, if it's starting to, if, if, if everybody's ready to slow down a little bit, then does Brett say , I'm gonna go find a place that'll let me, uh, can push the envelope pretty consistently, whether that's professionally, uh, or wherever wherever else that is, um, in, in the state of , you know, global sports.

Yeah, there's no telling what sort of options he's looking for for himself, but I do think this has worked.

Uh, I think better than, than maybe I anticipated at the beginning.

And I think, again, I talked about it earlier.

He's been willing to try to do things to move the needle with the Big 12 and move the Big 12 up in the hierarchy.

It's not easy, and he hasn't always been successful, but he's worked at it.

And so, I'm, uh, I'm willing to, uh, to, to think that, that, He's, he should be fairly secure there.

I, I can't imagine there's too much of the league that's looking and saying, we gotta get rid of this guy.

But we'll see.

All right, uh, along those lines.

Who swings the biggest stick within the league, and this is an interesting one.

I think much like, much like the basketball, or I'm sorry, the football situation, there's a lot of parity.

I don't know who the bell cow is.

They hated the last bell cow, that was Texas, although they liked the revenue that came with having Texas in the league.

Texas was the big dog and acted like it and drove everybody crazy.

Uh, since then, and since Oklahoma leaving, is I, I think there's A lot of different voices from a lot of different places.

And Linda Livingstone, the president of Baylor, I think is probably the most important or prominent administrator.

She's really, uh, I think, stepped into a, a big spokesperson role for the league.

Unfortunately, the AD there who had been kind of the, the most important AD Mac Rhodes, resigned.

Uh, amid some, I don't know if the scandal is the right word, but some personal issues last November.

So, I think there's a, uh, a little bit of a vacuum as far as who actually does swing the biggest stick in the league.

What do you guys think?

Yeah, I would say so.

I mean, I think there's kind of like 3 distinct groups, you know, in the, in the Big 12, uh, and each kind of, uh, is, is interesting in terms of how much power they wield.

Obviously, you have the, the original members, you know, your, your, your Texas Techs, your Iowa States that have been around the league for, forever.

They've been through these, these wars in terms of trying to keep the, the league together.

Um, you obviously have the, the new influx, influx of newcomers, the BYU's, the Houston's, the Cincinnati's of the world, and, uh, certainly kind of the, the four corners block as, as Kevin termed them from the Pac-12 that.

Certainly gotten used to things in, in the Big 12, but they're also used to having a say, you know, in, in terms of, uh, they, they came into the league, Arizona State, very vocal in terms of what they wanted, uh, a very vocal president in, in, in particular, uh, there at ASU.

You had Arizona, you had, um, you know, Utah, strong ADs as well, uh, well respected by a lot of their peers.

So I think it's, it's, it's pretty flat in terms of the, the swinging the biggest stick, but I, I would certainly point to Texas Tech.

They have a region that is very outspoken, very prominent in terms of Any conference committees, any, uh, you know, national, uh, we're, we're gonna save college sports committees, anything, uh, having to do with, uh, going back and forth with the commissioner or, uh, running TV ads.

I think just Texas Tech right now is, is, is the, uh, school that is swinging the biggest stick.

That can change, um, you know, it certainly was Baylor a couple of years ago, but I, I think right now it is Texas Tech is the one that is trying to kind of pull , you know, the, the rest of the Big 12 forward with them.

Well, I think that's, that's sort of the, the central question, right?

I, I think it certainly, Texas Tech is attempting to swing the biggest stick.

I, I think we don't know yet how that will be received, and I do think the pushback, and again, a lot of that has been, uh, maybe more specific to an individual team or an individual player, or to Cody Campbell himself, like, I, I do think that the pushback at some point is probably coming to Texas Tech as a whole, uh, and, and will the rest of the Big 12.

Try to win that race and play the game that Texas Tech is playing, or will they say, hey, like, we, we ain't doing it this way, man, like, you, you, you, you can't bully us into doing what you into running the running the show the way we run it in Lubbock, and I think.

That that to me is sort of the the central question, and again , you know, there's all sorts of politics at play there with, with, again, Cody Campbell seemingly having real ties to um the president, to, to potentially to Ted Cruz, to the people that are attempting to shape the conversation legislatively about the future of college sports, and You know, I, I, I think, and it's funny because on one hand, I think Texas Tech is viewed as, like, the ultimate renegades and um we're gonna, we're gonna spend like it's going, like, like it's going out of style and we're gonna be the ones that, you know, break the rules and uh don't wanna sign CSC participation agreement.

And and all these things.

And on the other hand, like, they're the ones working, maybe closest with uh the government on a school to school school level, at least, to put legislation on the table that , you know, changes the rules of the game.

I I'm I'm I'm fascinated by that dynamic, certainly.

Yeah, yeah, I, I, I was thinking or answering more along a straight linear, like, university administration lines, but Cody Campbell definitely, if it's, if this is a money equation, Cody Campbell, and, and, and volume, noise, then yes, Cody Campbell and Texas Tech probably are at least attempting to swing the biggest stick.

They are the disruptive force, for sure.

Uh, within the league.

We'll see again, yes, it's, it's sustainable or not, um, we'll find out.

But for now, that, that's where, that's where the noise is coming from Lubbock, way out there on the plains.

Uh, all right, let's get down to brass tacks.

Brian, how many college football playoff bids will the Big 12 get in 2026?

Well, I think the default is just the one, but you, you can definitely see a path there for two, you know, and I think they're, they're kind of right there with the ACC in terms of, you know, kind of jockeying to get more than just your conference champion, and, you know, a lot of it is going to come down to the non-conference schedule, you know, we, we mentioned the BYU Notre Dame game that really looms large just in terms of not just the Cougars' perception, but, you know, the Big 12 perception overall.

Certainly, there's, there's Texas Tech, which, you know, even top to bottom, separating the, the issue of the quarterback, um, you know, has, has the best roster at this point.

So I think, you know, you kind of look at those two teams being in a class of their own, and then you, you have a number of contenders that, that could be coming and, and potentially, if, if they get the right breaks and a lot of those coin flip games could end up being not only a threat to make it to Arlington there for, uh, the conference title game, but maybe even for the college football playoff overall.

You have Arizona, you know, a lot coming back with, uh, Brett Brennan there after a big year last season.

Um, Houston, uh, 10, you know, 10 wins last year.

We know how good of a coach Willie Fritz is.

You know, they, they got Connor Wigman back.

They, they've got, uh, I think they, they think they're, they're in a pretty good place in terms of the talent on the roster there.

Um, you know, can they get a big break?

They do have that, uh, Friday night game against Texas Tech that looms large on their own schedule.

You have Utah with a bit of a state of transition, but they got, they got a quarterback coming back.

Um, you know, you, you figure they're gonna be pretty good on both lines of scrimmage just as they've always been, uh, especially, given the, uh, returning talent there in Salt Lake.

Um, and, and you got others that are gonna be a, a factor in this race.

You have Arizona State.

They, they have that, uh, yes, they, they've lost some of the talent that That got them to the CFP bid a couple of years ago, but, uh, they, they've got a great coach in Kenny Dillingham.

I think they like where they're at, especially on the offensive end of things in terms of some of the guys they've brought in from the transfer portal or through the high school ranks.

So, um, yeah, I think it's gonna be a fascinating year for the, for the Big 12 again.

Although I , I just continue to default.

This is going to, it's gonna take a lot to kind of get over the hump to get that more than one bid, uh, especially as the system is designed now.

Maybe they are one of those leagues though that can take advantage of those extra losses on the SEC slate.

Where maybe that league comes down a little bit.

Maybe the Big 10 teams beat each other up.

All right, you got two teams sitting out there at 11 and 1 at the end of the year, and, uh, that, that's the way they can sneak in bids.

But I, I think it's, it's gonna be an uphill climb certainly to get more than one.

I, I think the way you listed off all the teams that have reasons for optimism is exactly why it's a one bid league, right?

That's, that's the issue, right?

At some point, like Arizona State's probably gonna be too good for the league's own good, right?

Arizona is gonna be just pesky enough.

Houston's gonna be just pesky enough, and like, Like, at some point, you needed a, a BYU or Utah or somebody , Kansas State, whoever it ends up being, just kind of rip through it and and win all the games and go 11 and 1.

And I, I just think it's gonna be a really hard road, and that's the, that's the age-old challenge, right?

And this is the, um, you know, this, this will be the, the talk of the uh the SEC versus the Big 12 as, as, as we get into, you know, playoff discussions, is like, how hard a road is it really to go 10 and 2 in, in the Big 12, and You know, the SEC will say, it's pretty darn easy to go 10 and 22 in the Big 12, and uh you still gotta go in like 5 road games to do that, like, it's pretty, pretty, pretty hard to do that, and there will not be, those will not be cupcake road games, they'll be winnable road games, but they won't be cupcakes, and I think that's the, the challenge they face, so I would, I would say 1 as well at the moment.

Yeah, there's no doubt that the, the strength of schedule argument will be used as a weapon by the SEC even more now than it already was with the 9th game.

And uh Uh, they, one of their prime targets will be the Big 12.

As we heard Steve Sarkisian saying that his 2s and 3s could go undefeated against Texas Tech's schedule.

OK.

We see the battle lines being drawn.

But first week, hey, they're getting right in there, all right.

North Carolina, TCU in Ireland, Colorado, Georgia Tech in Atlanta.

Uh, Baylor, Auburn on the Plains.

So some big opportunities immediately, uh, in non-conference play.

If you, if it comes down to it, if, if there's a battle for a second bid between the Big 12 and the ACC go win those games and start making things, uh, look advantageous for you.

Now, they did that last year and it still didn't happen.

I think the biggest problem, BYU just got pummeled twice by Texas Tech.

The BYU that everybody saw in the Big 12 championship game, I think everybody's like, no, that, that is not a playoff team.

And so, you know, if, if they had been competitive in either game, certainly, if they had won one of them, things could have been different, but they were a bit exposed there.

Uh, Iowa State, Iowa, I mentioned the, uh, BYU Notre Dame game.

There's opportunities out there.

Arizona State, Texas A&M.

Second week, so there are opportunities, but they're gonna have to win them, and then they're gonna have to win the perception battle, uh, and the arguments about strength of schedule.

All right.

Last thing on the Big 12 here.

In 5 years, the Big 12 will be blank.

Fill it in, Kevin.

I mean, I, I think it'll be in a very similar place to where it is now, right?

I, unless you're a buyer of some, you know, grand Super League shift where, um, you know, quite frankly, you know, we, we, we're talking about like a top 40 or something breaking away and and doing their own thing.

I think the Big 12 will be.

You know, the, the, the best of the rest, or, or one of the best of the rest, right?

They'll have a bunch of good, proud athletic departments that are very good at basketball and good enough at football, and probably not good enough or attractive enough that they are assets that the SEC or the Big 12, Big 10 is trying to to peel off.

And I, so I think in a weird way, yeah, I don't think the stability is just short term for the Big 12.

I think it's long, both, both positive and negative.

Well, I would say, you know, every 5 years or so, uh, the Big 12 seems to go through a crisis of confidence, so I'll go with that, you know, whether that's, you know, realignment impacted, um, you know, going through where, where are we as, as a league, um, you know, in relation to our national peers, it just seems like You know, dating back through, uh, going back to '96 at this point.

Um, you know, it's say, you know, cer certainly it was in those early years, all right, um, you know, can, can Texas and Oklahoma get back to, you know, being where they were to kind of carry us, you know, what certainly the realignment issues, uh, going back uh seemingly every couple of years.

Um, and, and frankly, and, you know, in 5 years, you know, the Big 12 is gonna hit that window to where negotiating new team.

Deals, uh, the CFP deals up, the NCAA tournament deals up at that, that point, you know, how, how much sway is the Big 12 really going to have on a national stage?

And I think that's gonna be a big thing for, for the league internally and externally, you know, how much are they gonna be able to influence things as, um, by that number 4 of, of the, uh, the power 4 leagues.

And I think that's gonna be something that a lot of, a lot of.

These school administrations are gonna be reflecting on, um, we'll, we'll see what, uh, what ultimately that becomes, but I, I think the Big 12, as stable as it is, it just seems like they, they seem to run into headfirst in terms of these, these issues in terms of crisis of, of confidence, and, and I would expect that to be the, be the same come the, you know, 2030s, uh, when ultimately college sports is gonna go through this process again.

Yeah, I think the two main things for them are, uh, can the Protect College Sports Act become a thing as it is currently written, which I think is unlikely, and can we get a 24 team playoff, which is more likely.

If both those things happen, whoa, it's pop the champagne in the Big 12, because those would be great developments for them.

If one of them happens, I think it's a positive, and you're in a better place.

If neither happens, yeah.

You're a little iffy.

The, the best thing you could say about the Big 12, if it comes down to a, a further splintering of college sports, is kind of what kept it together, is The, the membership as it stands is good, but not all that desirable from the outside.

Like nobody, if they don't have North Carolina, they don't have Miami.

They don't have Clemson, they don't have Florida State, they're not Notre Dame.

So, would you necessarily be, be poached for a bunch of other places?

That's why Texas Tech is doing what it's doing.

They'd love to be poached.

They would love to join the SEC.

Uh, but I think that right now, your strength is also a bit of your weakness.

But if you, if you wanna say there's still gonna be a big 12, 5 years from now, I'd say absolutely.

Just a question of what does everything else look like around it.

OK, last item here, fellas, we got, we have to get a very serious item, of course, at the end.

Uh, little, uh, animal anatomy.

We like to educate the listeners here , always keeping you up to date on various findings and happenings in the science world.

And a great lead here from Adidi Ramakrishnan of the AP.

A surprise gut feeling may help pigeons find their way home.

It is suspected that pigeons, you know, can get the homing pigeons they can find wherever they're going, they use their livers to, uh, guide them.

Strong signal in an unexpected place, the liver.

Specialized immune cells in the pigeon's liver break down red cells, blood cells, and store iron.

Uh, when those were stripped away of the immune cells and let them fly, the birds just couldn't figure out where they were going.

They'd get lost.

So, apparently pigeons are guided by their liver.

Uh, if my liver guided me, it would take me to 10/20 Brewery, which would not necessarily be good.

Uh, we, are pigeons smart or dumb, is my question here.

I, I'm, I'm open to , to debate here.

What do we think, Kevin?

It's never struck me as the brightest bird of the bunch, but, uh, yeah, I mean, this is an intriguing story that I'll have to do a little more research on.

I, I was gonna make a joke that the, uh, we know that those up in Wisconsin are, uh, they're they're they're guided, their liver guides them straight to a straight to a brewery, no question about that.

Oh yeah.

I, I was just thinking since we're talking about the Big 12, you know, are, are, are those, those pigeons in like Provo, like, you know, you, you know, you can count on them, like they're, they're they're gonna find their place, but man, the, the ones from Morgantown in, in, in West Virginia or Oklahoma State, you know, like you might have to send a couple in order to get your message across.

That's, that's my only thing, you know, we're, we're talking Big 12.

Might as well throw in the pigeons here.

How reliable are your pigeons?

Is it based on the general reliability of your student body and or populace?

Great question.

Uh, we can extrapolate that.

Uh, that's the, uh, we'll do that on another show here.

We will talk about who's, whose pigeons are more or less reliable in a future episode.

All right.

Clearly that's enough of this episode.

Thank you guys for listening.

We will be back next year we're talk Notre Dame.

And uh plenty of other schools and conferences as well.

So, stick with us as we plow through May and June here, and we will be back.

Thanks for listening.

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