In the Corner: Cutman Stitch Duran Reflects on His Iconic Career

What's up guys?

This is In the Corner with Destiny McCubbben, and today we've got a legend of the game, a true OG, somebody who's been around and seen it all.

Jacob Stitch Duran.

What is up?

How are we doing?

Hey, OG is good, legend, kind of a little embarrassing.

Just say OG.

You always say that.

You always say that.

OK, OK, fine.

I will keep it to myself.

I think you're a legend.

I do.

I do as well.

I appreciate it.

No, I know.

I mean, you are somebody that has become a very important piece of the fabric of fight culture.

Talk to me about that.

We were kind of talking a little bit about, you know, how it began for you.

We, we're drinking these waters which are veteran, uh, company waters.

You're a veteran yourself.

That's kind of how it started for you, right?

100%, you know, I, uh, I grew up as a farm worker in the Central Valley of California, right?

And, uh, my goal was always to play baseball.

So I walked down to Merced College, which was 9 miles away from my little town of Planada and, uh, walked down and started practicing with the team, and I didn't have a car.

So I would go to school with friends and then they would leave and I'd hitchhike home and, you know, I didn't know about grants and scholarships.

We're real naive.

So, I joined the military and uh.

First I wanted to go into the Navy because my brother and my father were in the Navy and I went to Fresno for the physical and the guy popped my knee and uh you gotta get surgery.

I said, well, my knees always pop, I didn't know, now that I know, right?

But the marine recruiter tried to get me and my buddy Marshall to go into the Marines.

This was during the Vietnam War, and I said, man, I don't want to go to Vietnam, I just want to serve my country.

So he is the one that sent me to Oakland and said just don't say nothing about your knee.

And I passed and I joined the Air Force and uh they stationed me in Missouri and then my second tour was in Thailand.

And I said if I ever went to the Orient, excuse me, I don't want to study the martial arts.

That was during the Bruce Lee era.

So, I get to Thailand and I knew nothing about Thailand.

I'm as naive as you could get, but I had friends that were already stationed there and they were there like 2 or 3 months, so they took me downtown to Banchan to see some fights.

Well, you know, thinking I'm Mexican, I'm thinking boxing, right, man, I see this one guy throws a kick and knocks this guy out, and I said, Oh, what is that?

So on the base, I, uh, I, I walked on and there they had the Koreans.

They had taekwondo, but taekwondo sounds like Thailand.

What do I know?

So I trained with them and then they left and then the Thais took over and transitioned us into the Muay Thai system and that's how I got started.

And then I got back to the States and, uh, got into boxing at King's Gym in Oakland.

Uh, and, uh, that's where Andre Ward was from, and, uh, we worked with Pete Alvarado, and we ended up with our first Golden Glove champs out of King's Gym, and then I moved out to the suburbs to Fairfield and opened up a school of kickboxing with just a credit card.

Crazy, yeah, crazy as could be, right, but I, I was already known as a top trainer, and, uh, so it was top of the line.

But then I worked for RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company.

That was my main job, right?

And they, uh, I was with them for 23 years.

But I wanted to move to Vegas to be a cup man, right?

And I put in for a job transfer.

And I waited and waited and waited and finally I get a call and they say, look man, there's an opening in Vegas, but you gotta be there in 1 week.

There's no traveling and all that.

And I said, 1 week?

I can't be there in 1 week.

I talked to the manager in 2 weeks.

I swear to God.

I transferred my school to a student, put my house on the market, lost some money, put my family in a U-Haul, drove 9 hours to Las Vegas, took a $25,000 a year cut and paid with RJ Reynolds.

Called my mom, said, Mom, I got a new number.

It was that quick.

But I followed my dreams.

Followed your dreams.

You come out here and become a cup man.

What, so was that always the, the, the plan was to be a cup man, or did you, did you acquire that dream during the training and everything that you were doing?

Yeah, I was a trainer first, you know.

I had, did you ever compete, uh, in Thailand, you know, and then in Thai, yeah, well, I was there.

It was kickboxing only.

It's for the GIs, right?

But then in the states, uh, I was stationed in Rapid City, and I went, I went into a tournament.

And then 3 kicks I won the championship.

I fought 2 guys and one guy says, You kick too hard.

That was because they're their points, right?

And tie the boom, and yeah, and, uh, so that was it, you know.

But then I got into boxing and Yeah, and that kind of changed and you just like the style more of just boxing.

Well, I, I, I wanted the whole complete package, you know.

I was good with my legs, elbows, knees, all that, but, you know, but in taekwondo we, they showed us power kicks, sidekick, front kick, and all that, spin kicks, and you attribute that, you put that into, uh, m Muay Thai, it was non-existent at that time, right?

So that's how I started, but I, I, I was a trainer before I was a cup man, but I was learning to be a cup man.

And I figured that kind of floated to the top and I said when I moved to Vegas, I said, I went to be a cup man, not as a trainer, because all the great trainers were were here, but I'm in the gyms, I'm looking and I said, man, I could do that.

I could do that.

I used to do pads, and that's how I started being a trainer and but Cup man floated to the top, OK, and what being a cup man like that.

Obviously, you know, everything has has its own skill within and of itself, right?

Being a, being a fighter, being a trainer, but being a cut man is like how, how do you handle like the pressure because obviously a cut can end a fight instantly, you know.

So how do you kind of pay attention for what to watch for and know when it's time to stop a fight or keep a fighter calm when they're going through a, uh, you know, a scared state.

Psychology is a major thing.

That's a good question, and I'm glad you brought it up.

But let, let me go back.

When I was learning to be a cup man, Bone Crusher Smith fought Marvis Frazier, the son of Joe Frazier in Richmond, California.

Never forget, and I had my school of kickboxing, but I was learning to be a cup man.

So I went to the fights and this guy did a good job on one of the earlier fights, and I went up to him and said, Hey man, I'm, you know, trying to learn to be a cup man.

Can you tell me what you did?

He says, fuck you.

He goes, I'm taking this to my grave, and you gotta learn like me.

He walked away.

That was a mentality.

No, that was a mentality of boxing at that time.

It was competitive, yeah, yeah, but I see, you know, it was there's secrets now that I know there's no secrets.

And, but I said, I'm never gonna be like this guy.

So my job has always been to teach, to teach, to teach, and you know, that's what got me here.

Amazing.

So you kind of have you taught a lot of the people who are in the game then?

Would you say I've taught a lot of people, and you know I get questions all the time and I've done seminars throughout the world in Mexico City, like 120 people, and I've been to Greece, I've been to Hamburg and And all that.

And, but traveling is, you know, it's hard.

So I put a video together.

It's called Giving the Fighter One More Round.

It's only 50 bucks, but it shows you everything that I do.

It's at stitch Duran.

com.

And, uh, yeah, me too, yeah, yeah, because, you know, yeah, but it shows you how to wrap hands for boxing, for MMA, how to work on swelling, the medications we use, and everything that I did in the seminar I did in the film.

And it's not to make money, it's only 50 bucks.

I give the money to my kids when, you know, every quarter when it comes in , I'll pass it on to my kids, but it's just to teach.

That's the legacy I want to leave behind, Destiny.

And, you know, I, I made this game safer and better.

But you're talking about these questions.

I've had fighters cry.

I've had, you know, I'm wrapping their hands because I know it's time to go to war.

Frank Mear says, when I see Stitch walking in the dressing room, my stomach drops because I know it's time to fight.

And then Vitor Belfort, you know, he had said, when I see Stitch walking into the dressing room.

Even though I know he's working the other side, he brings that calming effect, you know, and, and that's so important because I always say these guys, they're modern day gladiators, but deep inside they're all babies, and, and, and my job that's so true, especially in that those moments, yeah, 100%.

So when you got to Vegas, did you jump up?

Was it boxing and MMA, or was it just boxing when you got here?

100% boxing only.

Yeah, 100%.

And then when did you make that transition to MMA?

Well, there, I was doing a K1 at the Bellagio and, uh, kickboxing.

And Dana was in the honors.

I knew Dana way before the UFC.

I used to see him in the gym.

He was doing the pads for the, for the housewives and the executives.

He was making more money than us, right?

And, and, I mean, I knew Dana when he had hair, right?

I mean, way back, so I'm doing the K1 and he asked for my card.

And then the next day he says, hey man, we bought the UFC.

Would you like to be one of the cup men?

To work.

And at that time, it was Leon Tabbs, the original cup man from UFC number one.

They brought him in.

So it was him and I, and Burt Watson.

Burt Watson was a coordinator.

So, that program that we put together, it's used worldwide now, international where, and, and Dana had to give him credit because MMA was such a new sport, the guys didn't know how to wrap hands, they didn't know how to work cuts, so Dana brought me and Leon Tabs in, which was smart.

Now they use like 5 guys, and, uh, but, yeah, that's how we started and that's how I started with the UFC for 15 years, you know, and uh I was like the primary guy.

And people still stop me all over the world.

I've been gone 11 years.

You have, I mean, you have, people see you on TV.

You have such a raw.

Hey man, UFC guy, huh?

Yeah, yeah, Theo Stitch, yeah, I'm at the airport.

I'm going to Cleveland for the 4th of July fights and Three guys came up to me.

Hey man, you're still, you're from the UFC, huh?

And he's real loud, and I'm saying, Well, you know, I've been gone 11 years.

And, uh, but yeah, they stopped me.

Being gone like for so long from the UFC.

Do you still talk to any of the cuts that they have, you know, you got Cman Tate who's very popular.

Are you friends with him?

Yeah, well, Tate, they, uh, everyone else I talked to, Tate came in under false pretenses.

He came in, he was a paramedic and kind of chiseled his way in, and I had a, I had an issue with that because I'm, I'm telling these guys, why bring this guy in when other top cut men are trying to.

You know, fill that position, but yeah, Rudy Hernandez and Michael Fisev and all these guys, I helped bring him in.

That's awesome.

When you went to, when MMA became a thing, and were there, are there any differences at the way you approach MMA fights versus boxing fights?

No, they're all the same.

A cuts a cut .

A fighter's a fighter and You know, I, I, I treat him with the utmost respect.

Let him know that I'm there to cover your back.

And, and a good story, I tell you, I got stories.

Vladimir Klitschko, when he fought, uh, Anthony Joshua, I was with Vladimir Klitschko for 8 years, and, uh, he was a heavyweight champ of the world from Kiev, right?

His brother Vitali , and, and I didn't see Vladimir and Vitali till Friday before the fights at Wembley Stadium because my daughter Carla had gotten married in, in the island of Crete.

So I'm in the dressing room and finally I put my hand on Vladimir.

I said, Look, don't worry about nothing tomorrow .

I'm gonna take care of you like you're my son, and I leave because you know these guys can't sleep at night.

I'm putting the final Vaseline on him before Michael Buffer does the announcements.

It's like 90,000 people at Wembley Stadium, and between him and I like this, he says, You could call me son.

Oh my God, look, I give you chills just now.

But I knew, but I knew I got into his mind.

And the last time I saw him in person was like 3 months ago later, 3 months later in, in Munich, and I said, Vladimir, that one moment, why?

He says, Stitch, he goes, there's very few people I trust in my life.

You are one of them.

That says so much, so much.

Oh my gosh, because my children, yeah, exactly, and it's like you're there in the corner when it is, it is.

I have to trust you with my life.

Yeah, well, this was in this going back to my first fight with him.

I, we did Ocean's 11 together.

That's when they robbed the casino.

He's fighting Lennox Lewis.

It was like 4 days of film, but I got to work with him, and, and when it was time to fight, uh, Emmanuel Stewart says, Hey man, I wanna talk to you about Vladimir.

And I talked to my friend, said, so he called me the next day, he said, Vladimir wants you to be a scout man.

So, in his first fight was outdoors at, uh, Caesars Palace, and he had just come back from losing his title to Lehman Brewster, and I didn't know how important this fight was to him, you know, but in the 1st 3 rounds, he won, didn't look great, but he won.

The 4th round, he gets dropped.

So I always look at rounds as a judge who's ahead and what's the score.

So I still saw him lose 3 points to 2.

When the 5th round, he gets an unintentional headbutt and you pop that big vein that we have.

He popped that, and I've worked those with Forrest Griffith, and, and they're tough to stop.

So at that point, I whispered to him and Vitali, and Emmanuel Stu's on this side.

He didn't hear it.

I said, Look, you got a bad cut.

You're winning the fight.

I'm gonna have the doctor stop the fight.

So when the doctor came in, Doctor Goodman, she knows me because I work all these fights.

She goes, what do you think, stitch?

I go like this, I opened the cut.

So, it's pretty bad.

Stopped the fight.

He went to the scorecards.

He won the fight.

He became heavyweight champion of the world for 8 years.

Yeah, the, the cut was a result of a headbutt, or, yeah, unintentional.

Yeah, yeah, it was further enough in the rounds that they, they went they went to the scorecards.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, but that's knowing the game.

What was the name of the cut that you said that that are the worst ones, that big vein that you have when you laugh, you know, that big vein, they pop out of.

That's the one.

That's the one Tim Zu had when he, it popped, uh, Badu Jack, and it bleeds like a pig because.

Let me explain the medications, the adrenaline chloride 11,000 that we use on the, on the swab on the cuts, that is a vessel constrictor.

So when you, you normally I'll clean up the cut, take the little blood out of the veins, I'll put the swab.

It absorbs into the veins, and they'll close it.

Well, that one is too big because it, it continues throwing blood out, so it doesn't absorb.

So the opportunity to win a fight was right then and there, and I made that decision .

You knew, I knew 10%.

I worked with Forrest Griffith.

I've worked with all these other guys.

And the best chance of him winning that fight was right then and there.

But then in this documentary they did on me, we interviewed him in Kiev.

They did.

But he says, you know, at that point, Stitch was Thinking of me, of my career, and sure enough, I changed his career.

Absolutely.

Is it hard for you when you do it when you're in the corner and you realize I've got, got to stop this, this fight for this young man or you know, this fighter?

Is it hard for you to do that?

No, it's, it's, it's a calculated thing.

Nate Diaz, of course, when you fought Mike Perry, right?

And I've worked with Nate and Nick throughout all their career because we're all from the 209.

But in that situation, Nate was taking a beating, a major, major beating, and Mike, Mike, after the weigh-ins, he comes up to me, he says, you're working with Nate?

I said, man, well, you got my number, you know, you know, first come, first served, you know, but I would have done Nate anyway.

Anyway, but Nate comes down, he said, man, I can't see.

But he This cut right here, this vein that he popped, it just kept bleeding and bleeding, and he ended up with 15 staples on his head and 20 stitches throughout all his cuts.

But at that point, I said, mate, Nate, I said, I'm not going to let you go out, man.

I said, I'm gonna have the doctor stop the fight.

And he says, OK, you know, so then this is between him and I, you know, that, uh, then the referee, come on, come on.

I said, nope, he's not going out.

He's, all right, stop the fight, he says, thank you, Stitch, you know, in the dressing room again, thank you, Stitch.

His dad, thank you, Stitch, his team, thank you, Stitch.

But you gotta take care of these guys, they're gladiators, but I tell you.

They're all babies.

They need somebody to take care of themselves because if you didn't stop it, he would have went out there.

Oh, he would have gone out there and got seriously hurt, you know.

So the probabilities of that winning, I did that with Andre Dorell when he fought Jose Esquiigi in boxing.

He was taking what I consider long term damages here, coming out there, and I'm looking at the doctors and they're talking amongst each other and When Andre comes to me, I'm working on him.

I said, look, man, the doctors are thinking of stopping the fight, do you wanna continue?

It's just him and I.

He goes like this, real small no.

I said, no, stop.

And the corner didn't know, no, one more round, one more round.

As long as he said no, he's done.

The next day, him and his wife called me about 8 in the morning.

Stitch, I wanna thank you, man, because I had nothing with me, you know.

But these guys are gladiators.

They'll fight to their death.

How much discussion goes on when you're, when you know a fight needs to be stopped?

Do you consult with the coroner, or is it just kind of like you, like you're the guy, you're gonna make that decision?

Yeah, yeah, well, it depends on the fights, you know, and, and the situations, and Caleb Plant, I think when he fought Benavides.

You know, he was, they were, uh, the corners talking about stopping the fight.

I hear him, right?

Well, this and this is going into the 12th round.

I said, man, I can't let this guy go out, you know, on the 11th round.

So I start working on him.

I said, look man, your corner's thinking of stopping the fight.

Just stay off the ropes and just keep moving around and finish the round of the fight.

He finished the fight, lost the fight, but he finished it.

So his credibility, yeah, exactly, and, and he thanked me for that.

Um, would you, do you ever, do you ever have fighters where like you kind of know, OK, they're gonna get cut like Nate Diaz, he's got a lot of scar tissue.

Are you're like, OK, yeah, are you like, OK, this is gonna be a job for me tonight?

100%.

Yeah, you know, the thing that's a good, good point, but I always prepare for worst case scenario, and I teach all these young men, always prepare for worst case scenario.

As you can see, we've got the swabs here, right?

Well, they're loaded with adrenaline, with the adrenaline.

I'm.

If, if I don't use it, I don't use it, but that's the cost of doing business is you got to eliminate seconds, and, and seconds are extremely important because for the most part we got 50 seconds to work with these guys, right?

And if you, so obviously we talked about the fighters going through that moment where like they see stitch and it's like, OK, it's time to get down to business.

Do you get nervous too?

Do you get that, that feeling in your stomach when you're going out there, or are you just like, all right, it's time to go to work?

You gotta love it, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's.

That would have been.

I, I worked with this one guy, uh, from England at the MGM.

This is when KSI fought, and, uh, I, I worked with a guy and then after the fights in, in the locker rooms, in the dressing rooms, the coach to the other fighter comes up to me and says, man, when I saw you walking in that ring, I knew we were gonna lose.

So yeah, you know, it's because I understand.

Have you ever been back in that locker room wrapping someone's hands and like you kind of have a feeling the guy doesn't want to be there or he might not be ready to go out?

Have you had discussions when you're wrapping like, hey, are you sure you're ready to do this?

Well, pretty much, you know, the not so much are you ready to do this, but more of the motivation.

I've had guys, I'm wrapping their hands and they're crying.

Yeah, but, but I understand.

I just stopped them.

Let him cry and they said, look, you know, try to give him that word of encouragement and at the end of the, you know, give him a hug.

He ended up winning the fight, you know, so go out there and psychology is like major, major for these guys to keep in mind they're all modern day gladiators deep inside they're all babies.

I feel like it's when you're feeling those deep emotions like that to where you're crying is when you really go out there and perform.

It's crazy.

Oh, it is.

I'm telling you, these guys, it's, it's a trip, man.

You know, this was Destiny's question, but we just mentioned Nate Diaz, obviously the legendary scar tissue.

What's the worst cut you've ever had to work on?

Where, where you were able to get the guy to get back out there, yeah, uh, Raul Marquez was my coming out fight in Vegas.

He, uh, your first fight or your, well, my first big coming out fight in Vegas.

I was a, he was that's when Oska de Loya fought Macho Camacho and Thomas and Mack.

Raul Marquez was the IBF middleweight champ.

He fought Keith Mullins, and nobody knew who I was, you know, but, uh, he ended up with like 60, 70 stitches.

Like 4 cuts, you know, and I kept him in the game, and he's in the documentary, and he's saying, yeah, you know, Stitch kept me in the game, and, you know, he ended up winning the fight on, on a split decision, and the doctors had thought, but he had that big cut there.

So yeah, that was my coming out party and Chuck Bodak, the legendary cup man that used to put the tape on his head, work with Cesar Chavez and with Oscar, and he comes up to me and says, hey man, good job, you know.

So he's the first guy to ever welcome me to Vegas.

Amazing.

You've also had your time in the cinema world, obviously we talked about, uh, what was Ocean's 11 and then the Creed movies, right?

It's been like 7 movies, girl, yeah, OK, and I'm not an actor.

I, I, you have your SAG card.

I got a SAG card.

I get a pension now from them.

You kind of just do your thing when you're in these movies, yeah, it's simple to do, yeah, and you, right?

The first one I did was, with Woody Harrelson and Antonio Banderas.

Oh wow, that's awesome.

That was the last day I took an early buyout from RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company.

So I'm working with my manager.

And I have an audition like at 3 o'clock, right?

And that's the only time I ever auditioned.

So I'm nervous and I'm nervous, and about 12 o'clock I said, you know, Aggie, I said I got an audition for a movie.

Hey, I'm just here to sign you out, sign me out, and I went and did the audition.

I got the part, but I wanted to be with Antonio, uh, because he was Latino, right?

Well, Chuck Bodak got in front of me, the legendary Chuck Bora, so I ended up with Woody Harrelson.

But during the fight, Woody's the one that gets cut, and don't worry, you got the best cut, man.

Boxing and so I got all the accolades, right?

And that was my first one.

And then the second one, what year was this?

Do you know?

No, I don't know.

Shoot, I, I've been gone.

I don't know.

I'm not good with dates, you know.

And then the second one I did was, uh, Ocean's 11 with Vladimir Klitzko.

And then I did Balboa when Rocky fought his last fight, and I turned it down because I, uh, they called me.

Joe Cortez, the referee called me.

And uh I said no I can't, man, because I got a big world title fight in Paris, France with Fabrice Ozo, and then the week later I was gonna be with Audley Harrison, the Golden Glove, uh, heavyweight champ from England.

So I was thinking economics, and I called my wife at work and I told her, she goes, Are you crazy?

I said, you have to.

Rocky's an American icon.

And I thought about it and I'm thinking, wow, he's, he's right.

So I was already negotiating with the people in, in England.

I deleted.

I hope you understand, so and so, and they did.

It turns out that the fight in Paris got canceled.

So I called Joe up and I got the assignment and yeah I was Antonio Joe Tarver's.

I was a light skinned brother, Antonio Tarver and uh you just said you were negotiating.

Did you have an agent for any of these movies or you just negotiating all your own stuff?

Uh, well, you know, working with RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company for 23 years, I did a lot of the corporate, uh, meetings and all that, so I understood, you know, and so I've been my own the middle man, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I've been my own agent, you know, and then, uh.

And then I did Kevin James, uh, Salma Hayek, Here Comes the Boom, and see, when you get lines, you get residuals, that's just right, so I didn't have no lines, right?

And, uh, but I'm thinking I gotta think of something, right ?

But when it was time for me to, and this was like 2 weeks before I even got there, 2 weeks when it was time for me to do my scenes with Kevin James, he pulls me aside.

He goes, Stitch, we gotta have you say something.

All right, well, you know, I always tell the fighters, uh, welcome to the UFC.

Oh man, that's great.

So, when, when it's time to, I'm working on them, oh, Stitch, I can't believe you work on me, man, I'm a big fan of this and that, and I slap them.

I walk to the UFC and I walk out, they didn't know I was gonna slap them.

That was my only take.

Everybody loved it.

You didn't know you were gonna.

No, nobody, no , no, nobody knew I was gonna sign because I didn't want him to flinch, right?

But when you do, he's all, yeah, yeah, uh, I was, I walk up to the UFC and I walk out.

Uh, that was my, my million dollar line, you know.

Yeah, that was awesome.

Then Creed 1, Creed 2, Creed 3, yeah, yeah.

Was there a favorite any shows?

Yeah, Creed 3, Creed, yeah, but I mean, you know, Michael, just to work with Michael one on one was special for me.

Every day I'd wrap his hands.

It's just him and I.

So, but I treated him like a fighter, and he understood that, right?

He was doing actual training for them.

Yeah, 100%.

Are they really sparring and stuff ?

Yeah, he was doing everything, all that, and, and he looked like a fighter, but I treated him like a fighter.

Nothing that I said, but I told him, Michael, if you ever change, I'm gonna kick your butt, you know, stay the person that you are.

And then in the second Creed movie, I'm wrapping his hands and I'm telling him how proud I am of him and Tessa and Ryan Coogler that directed it, and well, Steve Cappel directed number 2.

He looks at me like I'm looking at you, Doug, and he says, Stitch, we went from being actors to writers, producers and directors.

He says, I'm directing Creed 3 and you're with me as long as you want .

Amazing.

Yeah, amazing.

When they're, when they're, when they're training, when Michael B .

Jordan is training and you know they're, they're gearing up for sparring, does he get nervous like it's a real fight?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.

And then obviously he didn't come up doing that.

So did you have to kind of walk him through that?

I, I did a lot of that, you know.

And then, but even, uh, authenticity, you know, they come up in the 3rd movie and, uh, well, Ryan Cougar would always come up to me and in the, in the, when the crews fighting Drago, uh, Tessa, and, uh, Bianca at that point.

I guess if we hit them low, take a point away, take a point away, she yells, and Steve Caboy says, you must have got that from Stitch, because she asked me, what, what do I say, what do I do?

Take a point away , you know, yeah, all these crazy moments, but Michael asked me who should give away the WBC belt.

And we're in Atlanta, right?

And I said, well, you know, the history of Jose Suleiman and the father and Mauricio and, you know, Mexico City and all that.

There's one Mexican guy and his wife, the other side of the ring, all these extras.

I said, see that guy over there?

Have him give the belt away.

So he ended up getting a, a little spot, you know, but the authenticity, right, exactly, yeah.

Now, obviously, you're, you've done all these things, but I wanna kind of go back to your roots, you know, you, you wear the, the farm working um badge on your, on your Cutman jacket, you know, proudly.

What was that like coming up during those times and what do you, what would you say like it kind of shaped you into the person you are today?

100% shaped me into who I am, you know.

I, uh, grew up as a farm worker.

I was born and raised in a migrant camp.

I heard you say once, you know, if, if you ate it, I picked it.

You go from a, let's see, A to almonds, apricot.

That's, I didn't do berries, yeah, I do carrots, yeah, I did that, peaches, nectarines, almond, cotton, figs, huh, Cotton, yeah, I picked cotton and, uh, I did it all, but I was on my birth certificate, my address is CPC number 12, California Packing Company number 12.

So those are the roots and, you know, what happened with this documentary they did on me from the fields to the garden, being the fields, I grew up as a garden.

I grew up in the fields.

The garden was my go to Madison Square Garden, but what was happening with ICE when they're sending all these farm workers back, it really bothered me that I, I talked to the producers to let me go back home, and I, everybody I invited that we grew up in the migrant camp and, and school.

The school is only 300 people, but all farm workers.

I invited them.

We rented the hotel, rented the theater, and I showed them the film just as an inspiration, you know, so.

Yeah, never forget where you come from.

Absolutely.

And that was with you and your parents, siblings, everybody , right?

Well, my parents were gone, but you know, my mom always said, you know, when you give, you always get it back 10 times, and that's always been in our mentality.

You give, you give, never do it for the money.

If you do it for the money, you do it for the wrong reasons, you know, it's, don't be stupid.

It's a business, right?

But, but don't do it for that 100%.

And like you said, from the, from where, from the field, from the fields to the garden, so then you chase your dream.

You start chasing your dream, you make it up, you get to the UFC.

What was that like when you got to the big was great, you know, I knew nothing about MMA.

I, I, I knew nothing about Eminem, so you just jumped in and kind of learned the game.

Yeah, I didn't know about grappling.

I knew kickboxing.

I knew boxing, but I didn't know about it.

So how did you feel about it?

I liked it, you know, I liked it, you know, the, the first guys that I rapped with Jens Pulver and Dave Mone.

I mean, that's going way back, you know, and I remember, uh, uh, Shamrock, Shamrock.

I'm in the back wrapping hands, and I look at him.

I say, Man, you look familiar.

I didn't know he was a superstar, right?

Everybody starts laughing.

He was like the face of the promotion at that point, yeah.

Everybody starts laughing at me, man.

But yeah, Tito and Chuck, every one of those guys I worked with.

And when I worked with Nate, I saw, uh, uh, Anderson Silva and Burt Watson, and I haven't seen these guys in.

Poppy Anderson Silva, Poppy, I love you.

I love you.

Just great, great feelings, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it changed my life.

Absolutely .

What, what would you say is like your favorite, maybe some of the best favorite, your favorite fighters, your favorite fights you've worked in the UFC?

I mean, Forrest Grifffriend's gotta be up there.

Well, well, Forrest, you know, Forrest was, uh, That's when he fought, uh, Shogun.

It was the first pride fighter versus the first UFC fighter, and Forrest ended up with his, that cut, right?

And it's in the video game too, by the way, uh, so I worked on it and I'm sitting next to Dana's dad and Don House and we're looking and I'm using Avitine.

Avitine is a coagulant.

It looks like, uh, cotton candy.

So I, I put the medication on the cut, then I plugged it up with the Avitine.

And we're looking.

I said, man, it's not bleeding.

It's not bleeding.

And he ended up winning the fight.

Wow, it worked, yeah, and it worked, yeah, big time, but I used everything, he said it's like cotton candy, so it's like, like, like it's that texture, OK, and it just soaks it up, kind of, yeah, well, it, it coagulates the blood, and my wife said, yeah, it's more like cotton candy.

Does it hurt them, huh, stink.

No, no, no, they don't feel it, you know.

So that was nice, but Forrest ended up sending me a nice gift certificate to a restaurant.

And thank you, thank you.

So we love Forrest.

He's awesome.

He was our first guest on in the corner.

Yeah, he's a good kid, man.

Yeah, he's great.

He's hilarious too.

Oh, he's crazy as hell, you know, Stefan Bonner, that was the, the fight that made you change, change the course, and I was working with Stefan, uh, with, uh, Forrest, and he ended up with that big old cut and kept him in.

And, and at the end we're standing there with a decision.

One of his coaches standing next to me, and he says, Stitch, I'm not gay, man, but I gotta give you a kiss, man .

Thank you.

So those are moments, you know, like I say I've done so many, so many, so many fights that it's the fights are important, but it's the stories.

Yes, the relationship that, that, that, yes, the bond that you share between the two of you.

I always say that it is, it's something that you, you can't explain.

You just have to have been there, experience it.

Yes, absolutely.

Um, would you say that you, you noticed the same, the same, or is it different, you know, when these fighters or these boxers versus UFC fighters experience that, that, that scaredness or whatever coming out to the arenas?

Is it kind of the same thing?

100%, yeah, it's just the same, same warrior in there, same warriors, and I remember Chuck Liddell, uh, no, uh, he fought Chuck Liddell, uh, I can't remember who it was .

Anyway, I'm walking out and his father's crying because I helped his son out and, uh, but you could see the emotion on the father.

Um, my question too is, what, what would you say is more dangerous, MMA or boxing?

Good question.

You know, I, uh, and we talked about this film I did 25 years ago, Boxer's Nightmare, dealt with all the stuff that fighters went through with dementia, with dehydration, with even something as simple as aspirin, right?

So, As I got into the MMA world, none of that was existent.

But now that I've been gone for 11 years, and I see a lot of these guys that I had worked with.

Then there's been a change in their deme in their speech pattern, in their dementia, you know, all this.

So it's what was happening to boxing then is now happening to MMA, right, kind of like a punch punch punch punch drunk syndrome, syndrome, and then they deal with substance abuse issues and just mental health issues, mental health issues, everything, you know, but even taking punches, you know, dehydration and, I mean everything that affects the body, and you know, you're a fighter.

Everything that affects the body affects the mind.

Yes, it ends up kind of taking its toll.

It might not.

It might like these fighters competing right now might not experience it even just from the weight cutting, but later down the road because they say that the weight cutting affects the brain, right?

100%.

You're dehydrating your brain.

I, I went to, uh, I went to Japan with Frank Trigg.

And he lost 18 pounds in one day and literally he has the sweats on and we're pulling him out of the sauna and, and he ended up making weight.

And the bad thing about it, he ended up winning the fight.

Yeah, but wrestlers are, are different than when it comes to losing weight.

What are your thoughts on weight cutting, because I think the community is kind of divided.

There's some people that say it's so archaic and barbaric, and then there's others that are just like, that's part of the fight game.

Do you think that they should make adjustments?

Like, what's the, what are your thoughts on weight?

There's always been a lot of discussion on that, you know, if you weigh 160 pounds, you know.

You lose 5 pounds, maybe, you know, but a lot of guys, like, OK, Trick, lost 18 pounds, so let's say he's a middleweight, but he came in as a welterweight , but now he goes and puts that weight back in, and now he's a middleweight, fighting a guy that's a welterweight, you know, so there's discussions on that.

And there's even discussions on where it's like a form of cheating almost, right, not cheating like legalized cheating, yeah, taking advantage of the situation, you know, but the, the question is also is, is, you know, the 8 ounce gloves are designed for like 147 below the 10 ounce gloves above, but if you come in as a lightweight at 135 and you're wearing 8 ounce gloves, but then you dehydrate, now you're 165, shouldn't you be wearing 10 ounce gloves, you know.

So education is what I'm gonna try to, that's how I wanna end my legacy.

Uh, do you have fighters, like, you know, are you able to kind of tell when a fighter is kind of developing the punch drunk?

Well, especially if I haven't seen him in a while.

Like, would you say Justin Gauci has it?

I haven't talked to Justin in a long time.

I think he's just a pothead.

So, well, you know, with with with with Nate, with Nate, he said, well, I've been talking like this all my life, you know, so, yeah, you know, some guys, yeah, a little bit, but I've noticed.

Some dementia, some speech pattern change over some of the MMA guys that I haven't seen in a long time, so.

Sorry.

Has there ever been a situation where you've, you think a guy can continue, but the doctor stops the fight and there's like back and forth with that?

Doctor just, if the doctor says that, it's, yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna take that responsibility.

overrule, overrule a doctor.

It's not my job.

Have, has there, has it ever happened where you thought a doc the doctor made the wrong decision?

I've had doctors that say stitch, do you need, does he need stitches?

Yeah, I think so.

A stitch, what do you think?

It's, what kind of doctor are you?

Hey man, I'm a cardiologist.

If he gets a heart attack, I'm OK, but I don't know nothing about this, you know.

But I've had, yeah, doctors.

I, I did a show in Cleveland, uh, for the 4th of July with, uh, Top Rank, and the commission there asked me for my card.

So they're gonna bring me in so I could school them on.

The proper things, you know, uh, stacking, for instance, was, was a big issue, is a big issue for a lot of guys.

Stacking, we put gauze and tape and gauze and tape on the wrap.

So, so, yeah, so that's not stacking, that's conventional.

But when, uh, Triple G fought Canelo, uh, Triple G's team filed a complaint that Canelo was stacking, gauze and tape and gauze and tape.

So Tom Lawford that uh managed Triple G, I worked with him with the Klitschkos, he called me.

Well, what do you think?

I said, it's bullshit.

The only reason you wrap a fighter's hands that they don't break them as long as the rule says 1 inch behind the, the, you know, how you do it is up to you.

So the next day, the commissioner called me from Nevada because they wanted the second fight.

I told them the same thing.

So I met with him at a gym with a hand specialist, and I wrapped their hands conventional.

And then I wrapped it stacking, and they didn't feel that much of a difference.

There's not.

You use the same amount of gauze, same amount of tape, it's all different techniques, right?

And what is the stacking gonna do as far as help you win like if you're gonna not, you know, the bottom line is wrapping a hand, Destiny.

Is so that you don't break your hands this metal carpet number one injury.

Yeah, even when you wrapped this, I was like, you see how thin, yeah, yeah, but it's, it's solid, you know, it's solid.

So that's the only reason you wrap a fighter's hands.

Well, I ain't gonna knock them out.

You're gonna knock them out.

Well, if you're gonna knock them out.

That's because you're hitting them hard, you know, because you can.

As a matter of fact, when I was, uh, I did a show in Arizona, uh, and there was Robert Garcia, uh, there was a complaint that he used a long 4-inch gauze for the padding, and they wouldn't let him do it.

Well, I've been doing it all that.

So anyway, when I was there, the, the commissioner that Didn't allow him to do it, pulled me into a room and he pulled out the gauze.

What do you think about that?

And I think he was trying, expecting me to say, oh no, I said that's bullshit.

So the only reason you wrap a fighter's hands is they don't break them.

If you want to put that extra padding, put that extra padding, because once you keep in mind the glove is going to be this much thicker, just the padding.

There's no way that you're gonna be able to penetrate and go beyond that.

It's just, there's so many myths in boxing that that's one of the things through education that I want to kind of help cure.

I mean, it is professional sports, so people are always looking for that edge.

I'm sure there are guys that Maybe take advantage of the rules.

Well, you know, the with the commissions there now when Margarito fought, uh, who did he fight, uh, uh, the, the guy from Puerto Rico.

Uh, anyway, they were saying that he stacked his ESPN called me and, uh, Miguel Cotto, he fought Miguel Cotto.

ESPN called me because there was a big controversy.

And he said, what do you think?

I said, well, I'll tell you what we do as as top cut men.

When you work in a world title fight, you got your gauze, your padding, everything already laid out.

So, when it was time for Margarito to wrap his hands, his coach reaches into the bag and he pulled out the padding, which means that he did it.

In his room.

So no telling what was in there, right?

And that makes it a little bit different, doesn't it, but I don't know.

What happened, but you don't do that, you know, so you went against the system.

Absolutely.

Have you ever been in part of a fight where like, you know, you knew they put something in there like and done anything?

No, OK, no, at the A level that like movies, at the A level it don't happen, you know, that's why you got commissioners there.

I mean, the commissioners are literally staring, and then if you work in a world title fight, you have the option of going and watch the other guy wrap hands.

OK, OK, yeah, and that happened more often than not in title fights.

Yeah, it happens all the time.

Yeah, yeah.

As a matter of fact, when, when the Caleb Plant fought Benavides, so they, uh, they asked me to go to Benavides's corner to watch the father wrap hands, and the father learned how to wrap hands watching me.

I had met him years and years ago when we, when I was with the UFC.

We're on the way to the weigh-ins and we're on the bus and I didn't know till he was telling me years, years later that, oh, he's telling me that man I sat next to a stitch and this and that and so he was all pumped up.

So anyway, he learned how to wrap hands through watching me.

So I go and I watch him wrap hands and we're shooting the shit and, and Jose was in the Creed 3 movie with me, so we're all, you know, and I, he, he's wrapping hands and then he gets the tape and he, and he turns it and he twists and he puts it there.

Just, hey man, why are you doing that?

Hey man, if you man, who are you thinking, man, I got into his bad side and poor Daviss like this, man, and you know, and I, I didn't mean to do it.

I just asked him, why, why do you twist the, you know, between the fingers after the fight, of course, he apologized, you know, man, I'm sorry man, but I put Him in that you're wrapping your son's hands.

It's high tension, yeah, you're watching me and, and knowing that I know how to wrap hands, right?

But you know it was probably like an embarrassing, and, and poor David's like this, like, OK, man, you know what I do.

And then Jose, because I did the Creed 3 Creed 3 movie with Jose, at the end, Jose tells me how those fights.

He goes, Your dad, my dad said, Man, and you hang out with these guys, you know, talking about me, right?

So anyway, those are stories.

That's crazy.

Um , going back to UFC, uh, obviously you were with them.

You gave them a lot of your time, a lot of your years, and then the Reebok deal happened.

What was that like?

I know the fight world kind of went crazy.

They cut everybody, including you.

I know the fight world went crazy for you.

What was that like?

What was going through your mind?

Well, you know, on a Sunday went into the Reebok deal without informing anybody.

I was, you know, watches because I had, I got like 50 watches because my hands are always on TV.

Had, you know, Bad Boy and Tapout, and I was making, we were making more money through sponsors than we were that the UFC was paying.

And then they went exclusive with Reebok, and, and they canceled all the sponsorships from all the fighters and everybody's F Dana, F UFC, F Reebok, and, and they're doing all that and they call me.

And he's in the documentary.

John Nash never met the guy out of the blue from Buddy Yabu.

com.

Hey, would you be interested in doing an interview of how the Reebok deal affected the Cupmen.

Then I think about my days as a farm worker.

My parents fought for the rights with Cesar Chavez for the farm workers, and I say, you know, if I don't speak up.

Would be the same.

So the interview I did was very politically correct, and, you know, maybe I said maybe I gotta concentrate a little bit more on boxing since they pay a little bit more.

Anyway, that went viral and I'm, my wife and I are at Costco and, and my friends call me, do you have time to talk?

And I knew what it was about, you know, now give me, so about an hour later I'm in the computer room and I get a call and my friend says, the only thing he says, his voice is cracking because of the interview you did about Reebok.

The UFC is not gonna use you no more.

Who was a, who called you?

It was a friend of mine.

OK.

And how did he know?

Because he, he, Dana told him to call me.

Dana didn't even call you himself.

So anyway, I said, All right, will you do me a favor.

You tell Dana.

I said he ain't got no balls, that he should have called me since he's the one that brought me in.

There was only 12 members when he brought me in, and that went viral.

So for the first text that I get, I'm getting messages.

I said, let this guy know, gotta find a new job.

So USC let me go and My daughter says, Dad, you were trending.

I did like I did like 57 interviews in a week, bro.

I had camera crews, Univision coming to my house, and it was crazy .

Biggest thing in MMA.

Got job offers from all over the world and all that.

So more movie roles till till now people stopped me.

So would you end up saying that that ended up being one of the best things that could have happened?

Uh, things that have gotten better.

You're talking about movie roles.

I've been in, I've been, I've written two books.

Uh, the second one from the Fields of the Garden is the same as the, the movie.

The second one because Everybody wanted to know more about what happened, so, I did that, you know, so things worked out so much better for me.

Good, good for you.

I'm so glad and I obviously did not put any type of, you know, uh, lack in your step.

You, you went on to winning, being inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame, Nevada Boxing Hall of Fame in 2024, correct?

Yeah, wow.

And, uh, the National Boxing Hall of Fame, and I was at the MMA Awards Wednesday, and one of the ringside doctors puts his hand around me, stitch.

We're gonna work on getting you into the International Boxing Hall of Fame, you know, and, uh, but yeah, those, you know, you deserve it, yeah, you know, it's just to me it's, it's an honor, you know, it's an honor, you, you know, when I was talking about legends, yeah, it's a little embarrassing, but, you know, leenda, I didn't even know what leenda meant in Spanish, you know, there was no legends growing up, you know, but guys call me.

man, you're a legend.

You're it's, it's a respect factor for sure.

It is, yes, that that you've earned for sure.

Has that relationship with the UFC been repaired?

What's that like now?

Talk to anybody outside of the cup, man.

I'll talk to them every once in a while other than your friend.

Did anybody else ever from the UFC ever reach out to you other than fighters or maybe fighters all the time?

Yeah, there was a.

Yeah, there's some, I'll tell you a story that I did when I was at the MMA Award that you're the 2nd ones to know, yeah, this week.

So I'm going down the red carpet, right?

So they, so my daughter invited me, she works for the Raiders, right, and she invited me to go.

I haven't been to one of those in 11 years.

So once they let me go, so I'm in the red carpet and I'm doing all these interviews, and this guy's from Dublin, Ireland, and of course McGregor's fighting.

I said, man, I'm gonna tell you a story that I've never told nobody.

But when Floyd was gonna fight.

Connor, I was doing a, uh, I think it was a Ballator show at the Garden on New Year's Eve, and John Kavanaugh, his coach, was there.

Oh, Stitch, I wanna talk to you about working with Connor.

Yeah, of course, the biggest thing, you know, I'd love to and all that.

So I go to work, do some work, come back in the dressing room, a couple of fights later, say, hey man, I talked to Connor, he loves the idea.

I'm gonna have the guys get a hold of you and, you know, these dates and all that, and so, Uh, again, you know, they wanted me to be at the Apex Center.

Well, they came back and said I was too expensive, and I would have did, well, somebody in the staff, so I would have did it for $1 just for the sake, but they were training at the Apex Center, and I would have looked on Dana if their top star brings me in to work with him, you know, that's why, so that's why the only reason why, of course.

Of course Connor wanted me.

John Kavanaugh wanted me.

You know, it would have made sense on the boxing aspect because I know boxing.

I know Floyd.

Did you know that was bullshit when they said it was too expensive?

Yeah, I got, I got the email from John Kavanaugh was, hey man.

So you were too expensive.

We never talked dollars and cents at that point.

No, no, it was, yeah, but it was that kind of influence.

It wouldn't look good on them.

Yeah, yeah.

So you and Dana have had zero communication.

I haven't seen him in person and people say, What would you do?

I'd shake his hand and said, Thanks for letting me go.

Best thing ever happened to me, bro.

You know, Goldberg, Goldberg comes up to me, Hey man, Dana, man, a lot of respect for you, bro, the wrestler.

Wesley Snipes.

Hey man, UFC did you wrong.

You know, all these people are still till now people stop there that clip going around, you know, when Dana says he wasn't my friend.

Oh yeah, this was personal for you.

I didn't give a shit, you know, yeah, you know, but you know , like I said and.

You know, OK, he, I knew him before the gyms.

We're hanging out in the same gyms.

OK, he's the one that brought me in.

He had to bring me in for some reason.

He had, you know, because he knew I did a good job, but he knows I'm credible.

You know, where does that friendship, you know, uh, did, did I go to his house?

No.

Did I have beers with him?

No.

I smoke a joint with him?

Never, you know, so it was.

It was all business, but, you know.

Yeah, it didn't bother me at all.

Stitch and I were never friends.

Best thing that ever happened to me.

It is, yeah, that was Karen Bryant.

Like 2 weeks later they have their first big show on Fox Network, and Karen Bryant's interviewing Dana.

Well, it was that big.

What about Stitch Durant?

Is he ever, no, he'll never be back, and so and so and so and so, and Stitch and I were never friends.

Um, how do you feel about Zufa?

Do you like the, do you like the idea of Zufa or No, I'm not, uh, with their pattern, uh, you know, Nico Ali, Muhammad Ali's grandson, he's a big, he, he met with Senate regarding the Muhammad Ali reform Act bill, and, and I'm a supporter of that, you know, don't, if it ain't broke, don't change, you know, don't fix it.

But like I was telling Nico, he's, I've worked with him, he's a good kid.

I said, look, if Zufa is gonna come in, they're gonna come in with a lot of money.

They just got Shakir Stevenson, some big bucks, but why don't you have them investing through the boxing program.

Have them put this pension plan, have them put an insurance plan, you know, have them educated about dehydration, you know, bring something to the table instead of just taking out.

You, you mentioned your work growing up on the migrant farm camp and then when, so that kind of resonated with you when they took the sponsorships away.

What What can , why do you think that the fighters haven't unionized or will that ever happen?

What, what can we, because fighter pay in the UFC has always been a hot topic, right?

Yeah, it's uh.

Job security.

It's the only reason.

You know, it's, it's the only reason, but, and , and think about it as a union is not possible because, but an association.

See, why not join an association where, you know, like, say, like that tape I was showing you about Mike Tyson says guys like me and Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, somewhere I'm gonna, let's put it into these guys.

But if you create a program where these top fighters are putting, let's say 1% of the money goes to them.

Yeah, Mark Ratner, when he was with the, uh, athletic commission, he says the money comes from the pay per views.

So let's say every pay per view, let's say, OK, we're gonna charge you an extra $1 and that's going to the association for the fighters.

If you're gonna buy the fight, you're gonna pay the extra $1.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Why?

Who's not gonna put it?

Who's not gonna put in an extra $1 especially if they know for that, what if it's for that reason, yeah, you know, you're, you're giving into the system, and, and, uh, you know, so there's a lot of guys that Are suffering, you know, they just don't have those, those problems.

Let's say you break your hand in the gym, all right, and you become, you're, you're part of the.

Whatever association it is, when you go to the hospital , you show them your card, they pay for that, you know, it's simple things like that.

Just to go back there, what you said, they, they could have an association but not a union.

I just heard Dana the other day say that he's, he's trying to compete with the NFL and the NBA and all the big four sports which are all unionized.

Why do you think, why did you say they couldn't unionize?

Well, because they're independent contractors.

All these guys are.

Independent contractors and unions are all their establishments, so that's the only difference.

The same thing, but the only difference is that you're an independent contractor.

That's it.

Yeah.

Can you explain a little bit because I feel like even I don't know all about it, so I'm sure a lot of the people watching might not exactly what the Muhammad, what the Muhammad Ali Act is and what it does to protect the fighters and why, you know, Niko Ali is fighting to not have it changed.

Well, for the most part is that you as a promoter cannot manage fighters.

You as a promoter cannot create your own championship belts.

You know, you as your fighter, you as a promoter, you know, cannot just control these fighters under your umbrella.

You can't let them, like Shakir Stevenson, is he going to be able to go and fight somebody else outside of Zufa?

You know, are they gonna let him?

Well, they probably will because they're paying them so much money, because they're paying them, but these under undergraduates and all that, you know, and then you're stuck to, uh, what, 3, 5-year contracts, you know, and, uh, so there's a lot of things that should be ironed out, yeah, absolutely.

So crazy.

There's so many things that go on behind the scenes, right, that you don't know.

Have you been to a UFC event since you like?

Are you, are you, have they banned you, or no, no, no, no, no, no.

There was a matter of when they let me go.

One of the attorneys had mentioned that, you know, if a fighter wants to use them.

We can't stop.

I mean, it's true because we're, you know, they're independent contractor.

Would you, would you, if they asked you to be depending on who it was, you never worked with Nate when he was in the UFC.

No, no, no.

Well, when, when I was with the UFC, OK, yeah, yeah, but I, uh, Shane Mosey Junior, all right, uh, so he just signed with Zufa, and I've worked all his fights.

Good kid.

I love him like a son.

He called me, he says, Stitch, I'm, I'm fighting May 10th and this and that.

I said, look, Shane, I love you.

I love you like a son, but look.

If I walk into that arena with you.

Social media is gonna go crazy for me, not for you, but if I walk in with you.

You might be put in the back burner because of who you're having as a cup man, the politics.

Good for you to be able to recognize that.

Yeah, 1100%.

No, no, he must have been disappointed, but he understood.

Yeah, no, he understood and I said , dude, get Rudy Hernandez to work with you.

You know, I recommend it to be like that.

No, it, it's horrible, but, but that's the truth.

Social media would have gone crazy.

Oh, stitches at the Apex Center.

Hell, they didn't let me.

They didn't let me there with Conor McGregor.

You think they let me there with Shane Mosley?

So, yeah, I mean, you obviously are working with other promotions.

We, we were all, uh, at MVP MMA One, which was like a big reunion.

I'm sure, I'm sure a lot for you for sure, all the old fighters there, all those old faces.

Oh, it was great, man.

What was that like for you?

Well, you know, I've done 5 of their shows.

I did, uh, KSI when he fought Logan Paul.

That was the first one.

I didn't even know who these guys were.

I didn't realize they had like 20 million followers, and, but when I knew it was.

When I knew it was a different world, is KSI's fighting Logan Paul at the Staples Center, and I walk in, usually when we go in the dressing room, we'll drop our bags, we'll go to ringside, we'll look at the ring and evaluate where this and that and all that.

Nobody recognized me.

They recognize these kids from social media, yeah, Justin Bieber and all these guys.

It was a different world.

But then, yeah, then I've worked against Jake, you know, I think I'm 4 of his fights.

Did you wrap?

Did you wrap Mike's hands for?

I did.

No, I didn't wrap it.

Uh, Rafael did, yeah, but you know, so because he's where he was with him and all that, but I worked with Mike when he fought him.

That was, that was a character in itself.

Now that you've been with MVP, you've been around Jake Paul and them.

He's obviously not the most respected fighter in the game, but since you know him, how do you feel about it?

I, because from my point of view, obviously I understand why some people look at him the way they do, but I personally think, you know, he puts in the work.

He goes out there and he fights well.

He, he, he could fight, I think.

Oh no, he's, well , you know what, when, when I met him and Logan Paul.

They told me they were wrestlers, and wrestlers are athletes, you know, and so I knew from the get-go that they were athletes, but yeah, I gotta give him a 150% props on that because everything that he's done in MVP, he's elevated everybody, made Amanda Serrano a millionaires.

What he, well, what he's done for women's boxing, what he's done for women's boxing is tremendous, you know, and, and, uh, but what he's done for everybody.

has been good.

He's paying them, you know, what they should be paid and, you know, the marketing, social media and all that, he's a good kid, but I, uh , I want to team up with him and and present this, my documentary to Netflix on behalf of, uh, Jake Paul.

But then, but then this boxer's nightmare.

Do that educate everybody.

I want him to be part of it.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'm knocking on his door.

Did you say here first, Jake?

You heard that?

Hey, Jake, give me a call, brother.

We're gonna dominate, dominate boxing together.

Educate.

That makes sense.

If I was gonna work with anybody, it'd be, I'd love to work with Jake Paul on that.

I want to talk about that fight specifically because there was obviously Jake won and there was a lot of talk like, oh, it was a fixed fight and What were your thoughts on with Mike, with Jake and Mike?

How, you know what, in, in , in the second round, I told Amir Abdullah, I said, man, he shot his wad, you know, he just looked tired, you know, but the training, I went to the training.

And he trained extremely hard.

He trained like he was training in the old days, right?

And, you know, one thing you can't beat his time.

And, but he just, yeah, he just, he got old.

He got older in that fight and the adrenaline, the people, the warming up and, you know, getting hit by Jake Paul and, you know, all that just kind of takes a toll on him.

My opinion on that fight is that you mentioned everything Jake does for people.

I feel like that was kind of not a gift to Mike Tyson, but if Jake wanted to hurt him, he would have, right?

Well, or could have, yeah, yeah, it could have, you know, and then they say, but Mike just got old, you know, and, and when you get old, your defenses go down, and, you know, Jake, sure, who, who wouldn't want to knock out Mike Tyson, right?

And, uh, you think, do you think he would let him walk at the end of the fight, uh.

I never looked at it that way, but there might be a probability that, you know, that he read it might like, like, you know, he didn't want to be, it's a lose-lose if you knock him out.

It's like yeah.

Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah, I mean it wouldn't look good on Mike if he would have got stopped, you know, in the 2nd round, 3rd you talk about the documentary.

Are you talking about the video you sent me, you know, the other day?

Is that, is that gonna be like a full documentary, the one you'd presented to the zone that's like a clip of it?

Yeah, that, that's the trailer I sent on the trailer, but the film is 90 minutes, and, uh, it could actually be cut into two parts, you know, like Netflix, they do everything in, in, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like the, the, the films would be.

Number one, growing up as a farm worker in Thailand and the garden making it to Madison Square Garden through the process, you know.

So this is what you want to present to Jake.

I'd love to present.

I, I mean, seeing the trailer, it was, it was phenomenal.

I know the trailer.

I got Michael B.

Jordan.

He came in.

Michael, they killed the production.

Yeah, the production is top of the mind and the people you got on there talking and speaking on your behalf is amazing .

Yeah, so, so, I don't know if I told you guys.

I'll tell you the story.

I'm wrapping Michael's hands in the 3rd movie and I said, Michael, do you know my real name?

He said, Stitch.

I said, no, no, no.

Do you know my real name?

This is my 3rd movie with him, right?

6 weeks, 8 weeks at a time.

3rd movie is just.

I've only known you a stitch.

What is it, it's in the documentary too.

It's great.

I've only known you a stitch, you know, it was just, everybody's presented you a stitch.

What is it?

I said, it's Jacob.

He.

You don't look like a Jacob, and I, he's right, because I grew up with all Mexicans, all Rudy and Pancho Jose and Carlos, and I agree you don't look like a Jacob.

I don't look like a Jacob.

That was my thing with him.

I love it.

Um, when did Stitch come about?

Was it when, like in Thailand?

No, I had, I had my school of kickboxing, ASK, the American school of kickboxing.

If you remember the movie Kickboxer, you guys are too young for this.

Jean-Claude Van Damme while, his brother that was in the wheelchair, Dennis Alexio, was a true, true athlete, tremendous athlete.

So his sparring partner, they had some, we had some fights in Vallejo, California, and I was making the transition to being a cut man by looking and observing, and David ended up with a cut, knowing now it was a small cut, and, but I got tape and I cut little pieces and I butterflied it.

And he said, man, I don't have to go to the hospital, you save me some stitches.

I can call you stitch.

And that's how the name came to be and the last thing I heard about David, he was a fisherman somewhere in Alaska, and I don't know if David Rooney actually knows how much he changed my name.

People don't know my real name.

That's crazy.

You're literally a brand, a global brand Madonna.

Elvis, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, literally you are up there, yeah, yeah, it's crazy, man, just the one name, Stitch, Stitch, yeah, that's so incredible.

Now speaking of Stitch, you are starting your own cannabis line, Stitch Premium cannabis.

Talk to me about that a little bit.

Yeah, things just happen, you know, to this day I've never asked one job.

So this, this first group came up to me and, and we're gonna do tie stitch and Stitch Premium, the vape and all that, uh, but I did a show in Canada, uh.

1 month ago, 1 month and a half ago, 6 weeks ago, and this major company, BTAB contacted me and they wanted to use the Stitch brand.

Uh, so they signed me and Ice Cube together.

So yeah, when you say together, you're gonna be doing your own thing separately?

Are you guys like, yeah, they, they led the legends of sports and music.

That's gonna be their thing, right?

Ice Cube yet, huh?

Have you got to meet Ice Cube yet?

No, no, no, really.

I haven't, I haven't.

So he's gonna be starting his own cannabis line as well then.

Yeah, his is, his is called Friday, F R Y Friday.

So mine will be Tie Stitch.

Uh, stitch Premium and their, their thing will be last round.

So there's gonna be 3 items, 22 preros, and then, uh, I think I'll come out with rolling papers, the best rap in town.

There you go.

There you go.

Um, when we had met, when we had talked at the Tough Enough show, you kind of had told me about Tie Stitch a bit.

Tell them the story about why Ti, the Tie Stitch.

I was stationed in Thailand, right , and, uh, I told you I had friends who are already stationed there before me, so.

You know, I get there and they already have bungalows and all that, and I knew nothing about tie stick, tie stitch.

So these guys are smoking it in a bong, right?

And I think, OK, I'm the macho guy, but the bongs were good.

They were bamboo for the stem, and, and then the water thing was coconut.

Yeah, no, I'm telling you, so I'm in their bungalow and keep in mind this is during the Vietnam War, right now.

With a bong.

I'm hitting it.

And finally I'm like this, I'm so stoned, I can't move and I hear.

And I look and I see 3 Asians walking in.

I thought it was a Viet Cong.

I accepted death.

I accepted death because I couldn't move, but they were, but they were friends of my friends and uh that's how I ended up with Ty.

So anyway, when I got back and I told them I'd like to do something like that as good as that, and we'll call it Tie stitch.

So that's where Ty Stitch will be coming in.

And these guys here, uh, uh, Brandon, uh, he says, you know what, we have seeds that we could create the taste.

As close to that as possible.

So exciting.

So will you be doing that in flour and and in the pens as well, yeah, OK, gummies.

I'm not too big on because they're so unpredictable, you know, and I'm not too interested in that, especially back in the day.

Yeah, yeah, my wife, my wife don't smoke, you know, she don't, but somehow she wanted to try a gummy.

And we're going out.

She goes, Hold on, I gotta get a paper bag.

I feel like throwing up.

Yeah, she ended up throwing up.

She was so mad at me, man.

There's no more, no more, no mask.

They're intense, man.

And it's the worst.

They're unpredictable, yeah, and they hit sometimes so slow, so you're like, I don't feel anything.

You take another one and then you're in.

Space, you know, yeah, just going back to smoking thai stick out of coconut bongs in Thailand.

Back then there was a still a stigma here in the United States about marijuana, but now it's actually at professional athletes are using it as part of their recovery.

Big change in the way weed's viewed now, right?

Even in the NFL, right?

Yeah, well, athletes all over.

I did the show in Cleveland on the 4th of July .

They don't test for THC, really?

Wow, that has changed.

That's so good, because there's so many benefits to it, more benefits than negative, you know.

Did you believe in that back in the day when it was so frowned upon, like with the UFC?

Like Nick Diaz got suspended for such a long time?

Was that, did you or were you like, this is so unnecessary?

No, I was just a pothead then.

I'm learning more as I go, You're like maybe he needed that .

I don't know.

Yeah, it's crazy, Nate.

Well, Nate and Nick, they're both crazy.

Even Robert Rousey was talking about, you know, I shared one with Nate.

Well, yeah, she, yeah, at the press conference, she didn't know what planet she was on.

I actually asked her after the open workout.

I'm like, Did you have a gummy with Nate today?

She was like, No more gummies for me.

I could not speak at the press conference.

It was cool because I saw her and Rhonda in the, in the dressing rooms and I said, you know, with Rhonda, every fight that I worked that she fought, I always worked with her.

I wrapped her hands by, by her request, and then, uh, Gina, I wrapped her hands for her first fight.

Yeah, I remember I was telling Rhonda, I said, yeah, I remember every time I'd go in the dressing room, you know, fighters are there on the, on the mat, they're resting.

She would get up and hug me.

No, no, sit down.

She'd give me a hug and all that.

I saw the nice side of her, but man, when she was walking down the chute towards me to put the Vaseline.

I said, man, you always look like Chucky.

It took that, put that fighter face on and oh that warrior you talk about, yep, it comes out to turn it on.

Yes, exactly that switch.

Did you guys, you and Rhonda get a chance to talk in LA because she wanted to come back to the UFC obviously and now she's.

Gone on this campaign against Hunter Campbell and talking a lot of shit, but did you guys get a chance to talk about all the politics and stuff?

No, it was more, yeah, it was more, hey , good seeing you and God, how you been?

and you know, so it was good to see Bill and Rhonda back though, right?

She was Bill and Rhonda and Anderson Silva, you know, Burt Watson and Anderson.

I, uh, I walk in the back and Anderson's hugging Burt Watson and I'm behind Anderson and, and they separate and And knowing that he's there, I go straight to Bert.

Bert, how you doing?

And Anderson looks at me, Poppy, Poppy, and he comes over and gives me a hug, you know, and I knew he was there, right?

Yeah, no, he used to tell you, he used to call me Poppy, you know, because I take care of him.

Oh yeah, the best.

Oh, so many guys, man.

Oh, that was the era, the golden era of MMA.

That was a great guy.

What a time to be alive and be a part of that.

Like I worked with every one of them, every one of them.

Yeah, that's incredible.

Um, it's been great.

I'm about to start wrapping it up, but I do want to know if you have any fun, fun weed stories with the Diazes.

No, no, no, I only met them during work, really.

So you guys never actually just got high together, stolen with them.

It was all business, really?

Wow, yeah, yeah, very surprised because, you know, me as a couple, I just show up for the fights, you know, so I'm not in the training camps and all that.

But no , but I will, when I, when I would come out with a tight stitch.

Yeah, you gotta go introduce it, right.

You gotta go like on a world tour with it, exactly.

And Nate's gonna be the first.

Nate and Nick will be the first man.

You need an interviewer on your world tour.

I'm your girl.

I got you.

Got your number already, so I look, I look forward to it.

Awesome.

This has been great.

This is, I was, this meant everything to me to have you on here.

So thank you for taking the time to come out and tell your awesome stories.

Yeah, thank you so much.

It's been.

Great.

I mean, it's, I know you don't like the legend status, but you are, you are a legend.

You are that guy.

You are that guy.

Oh wait, we gotta cut this off.

He, he wrapped my hand for me because I just had to fill the legendary stitch wrap.

Now he's gonna cut it off that way I can, uh, take it home and have it as my souvenir.

Yes, yes, I've, I've wrapped hands for.

Generals for Prince in Abu Dhabi, for Doctor J actors, uh, everybody in it.

Max Crosby, you know, for the Raiders and all that.

I think Max Crosby ever fight in the UFC.

Oh yeah, I saw that, yeah.

So here we go.

This is an awesome souvenir.

Yeah, sure.

I'm going to put it in a glass case.

Yeah, well, what, uh, OK, so you pull out, I pull out.

OK.

That's what she said.

We'll cut that one out.

Yeah, I've done, I mean, generals, I, I went to Afghanistan to wrapped this four-star general, and he was like a little kid, man.

He was just so happy.

Oh yeah, yeah, you know, and they're, they're nice souvenirs for them, right?

Yeah.

Doctor Jay, I wrapped his hands.

He said, Man, I'm putting this in my, my cabinet, you know.

Yeah, so you have kids.

Did any of them ever take a liking to combat sports?

Yeah, they all trained.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're all, they, they all daughters and everything, yeah, y'all whoop your butt, yeah, yeah, they are, they, they all trained, but you know, being a cup man, you know, you gotta spend hours and days in gym, and, and it, it's, this wasn't their forte.

Yeah, they're so proud of me.

But you know, every time they look at, uh, They look at a fight And they see a cup man doing something wrong, they'll text me, Dad, so and so and so and so and so and so.

They know the game, yeah, yeah, for sure.

I mean, grew up around it.

You said your daughter works at with the Raiders.

What does she do?

She works, she does a lot of the community, uh, uh, services with them.

I was in, uh, Cleveland with, uh, Abdullah Mason, and he's from Cleveland, so they had the mascots from, uh, the Browns and And the, the Cavs and I'm telling the guy from uh uh that's yours.

All right, let's see, check it out.

So I'm telling, I'm telling the, the guy for the Browns I see because my daughter, she went to, uh, Indianapolis because they had all the mascots and she went and took the Raider guy and I'm telling the guy, oh yeah, my daughter was so and so, and he couldn't talk but he You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so she loves it, man.

That's right up her alley.

That's awesome, incredible.

Well, thank you so much, Robert.

Who's called you Roberto Duran?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, let me tell you a quick story with Roberto Duran, right?

So Zab Judah fought , uh, Cona zoo at the Mandalay Bay, and, uh, I went in with, uh, George and Ghost from MMA Junkie Radio, and Roberto Duran comes out of the restroom, and he comes up to me and he gives me a hug and He says, hey man, in Spanish, you know, I'm so proud that you're representing the Latinos and this and that and I just met him just right then and there and I'm thinking.

Roberto Duran knows who I am.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, wow, how funny.

I'm glad I opened it up for that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was crazy, man.

So thanks for having me on.

Thank you so much, Stitch, for being here in the corner, you guys.

That is Jacob Stitch Duran.

This is in the corner with Destiny and Doug Vasquez, Real fighters, real stories, real talk.

We'll see you next round.

See you.

Adios.