ESPN's Shams Charania on Breaking the Luka Trade, Doc Rivers Comments, & More

All right.

Joining me now, I always love when I get a first-timer here on SI Media with Jimmy Trainna.

This is a long overdue.

Crazy.

I haven't had him on before, but the NBA playoffs are here.

So perfect time to get on ESPN's ESPN's Shamsrania.

Shams, how are you, Jimmy?

Appreciate you.

This is a long time coming.

I know we've been going back and forth over the years about figuring out a date .

So, you know, it only makes sense right on the eve of the playoffs, um, you know, it's so exciting time around the league.

So I appreciate you having me on.

Yeah, I looked back.

It was like when you broke the Anthony Davis Luca trade is when we had first discussed getting you on here.

So it, it's definitely a long time coming.

Um, and we'll, we'll, we'll get into that.

I, I want to start because it is your first time, just a little bit about your career and then we'll get into the playoffs and some things, but, you know, just in doing the research, and you began this career at age 17, is that correct?

Yeah, sophomore year of, of, of high school.

So basically my story goes, um, I, I grew up in Chicagoland area, was born in, in, in, uh, in Evanston Saint Francis Hospital, um, I think where my sister was, um, and then we grew up really in Rogers Park, which is, you know, ironic because I ended up going to, um, Loyola, Chicago way later on.

So I remember just spending a lot of time around Loyola, Chicago's campus.

And then I moved to Skokie and then I moved to Wilmette and then I ended up going to New Trier High School and you know you get caught playing basketball early on and you know I, I was someone that was growing up dreaming about playing in the NBA, but once I realized that that was just that, it was just a dream and it wasn't gonna be reality, I had to figure out my next step and for me, I loved basketball and I picked up a great passion for writing.

So sophomore year of, of high school, my English teacher, a professor by the name of Doctor Reid.

You know, he told me, maybe he saw I was struggling, maybe he saw that I needed to figure out what I was going to do in life, and he's like, you know, you're, you're great at writing and you, you love basketball.

Clearly you have a passion.

Why don't you put two and two together and go do the school newspaper or go apply yourself.

And that was the first time where, you know, having guidance like that and, and.

He, he doesn't know the impact that he made on my life, but even interactions like that can go a long way and can help validate you and point you in the right direction.

And so I started that sophomore year.

So what, what are your sophomore year of high school?

1617?

I, I think, well, maybe a little younger, yeah, yeah, yeah , maybe 1516.

Yeah, 15, 1, sophomore year is 1516, yeah.

Sophomore year I started writing for the school newspaper.

I start blogging for an outlet called Chicago Now, which was a subsidiary of the Chicago Tribune at the time.

And then from there, like junior senior year of high school, I started writing for Real GM.

com, which at that point and still is just a great rumors base.

You can get all your information there along with hoop site, but I basically started reaching out and cold reaching out to like.

Real GM and hoops Hype and Hoops world at the time, there were all these like niche uh outlets that to me I found very, very uh insightful.

I got a lot of information out of them outside of just ESPN, your traditionals and um, so yeah, I mean, I, I started a real GM junior senior of high school , wasn't getting paid, and I, I was just writing as much as I possibly could to find my voice and One thing leads to the next, and I'm at the same time junior senior of high school.

I'm cold calling agents, cold calling team executives, anyone I, I can get my hand on email-wise, their phone numbers, and, um, probably was annoying a lot of people and probably still am, but, uh, you know, it's, it's Doc Rivers at least long, long story short, that's kind of the start for me and, and then Woj hires you and you're 21.

At Yahoo 202015 crazy, crazy, um, because it does feel like you've been an insider for so long, but you're still so young, so that's, that's why I wanted to sort of, yeah, I feel like I'm 40, I'm, I, I, I'm, I just turned 32, but I feel like I'm, you know, 45 in basketball years definitely, you know, the experiences, all the stuff year after year , but I, I, I love it.

I feel just as excited as, as day one.

Do you think your age?

Your young age, like, you know, I, I joked about Doc Rivers, but he was actually a jerk about it and said something like, you know, you had reported on trouble with the Bucks and Giannis , and Doc Rivers says, you know, I miss Woj.

I wish Woj was back.

Do you think your age plays a part in that sort of attitude?

Because if you're 50, I don't know if he says that.

So I'm curious what your take is.

I, I'm sure there's a population of people that you will use age against you, and that was definitely like a difficulty coming in.

You know, the good part about doing stuff initially what I was doing was cold calling, cold texting is no one's gonna ask you right off the bat, how old are you, right?

Like people just assume if you're trying to break into this, you're of a certain age, certain mold.

Um, it wasn't until I went to my first summer league in 2013 where people actually saw me face to face, and that was such an eye-opening experience going to NBA summer league because everyone is there and you're able to like see everyone and I was very green.

I didn't know anyone by face really.

I saw pictures of them online and I had their phone numbers and we had texted or emailed, but seeing people face to face is totally different and I think that was when people realized, oh, like this, this is a kid, you know, um, I was 19 at the time going to summer league.

And um but yeah I think initially it was a lot of faking until you made it.

You had to allow people to see you're mature, you're professional, you're you're, you're about the right things and early on it was, it was a lot of faking until you make it and you hope that your professionalism and maturity just shine through and it's not a, it doesn't become an ageist aspect.

Did you, did you find it was hard to sort of make connections, get sources and stuff and develop relationships because of your age or that wasn't a problem?

I mean, definitely there's certain demographics, right, where it's just like there's certain people that are just old school, you know, about how to information share, how to, how to have relationships and you know, I understood coming in that I was, you know, I had no end to the industry, there's no reason why anyone would want to communicate with me.

Sometimes I even still think to this day like why did.

This agent or this team ever even give me the time of day when I'm 19 or 20 years old and, and to me again it goes two ways.

One, it's the fact that there are a lot of good people in the industry that are actually good human beings down by heart because I'm like I don't even know if I would have given myself some time if I was in their shoes.

Um, but the other side of it is, is, yeah, like you, there's a perception of age and experience, and I do think there's certainly a population that feels much more comfortable, um, you know, potentially, you know, having, having to deal with someone maybe a little bit older, but I think over time, hopefully my professionalism, my maturity, how I've operated myself and how I've try to treat people, hopefully that continues to shine through.

I sort of want to get into a little bit of like your day to day in the life as an insider because we've heard all these stories about who has two phones, who doesn't get to spend time with their friends.

I only have one, Jimmy.

I have one.

I don't ask me, yeah, I have one phone.

I'm, I'm loyal.

I'm loyal to the soil right there.

I can't remember it.

I didn't research it's going on.

Kuiper had Mel Kiper had something weird.

That he, you know, with, I don't know, with the phones or something, um, or he didn't have a cell phone until recently or something like that.

But, um, so I sort of want to get into, you know, we saw Woj, he left, he cited burnout and, you know, we've heard Schefter and people describe the insider life as, as rough.

But I know before I get to that, I know everyone listening right now is like, there's this cloud over sort of the reporter role right now because of Diana Rossini, and I'm not gonna ask you to comment on her because I know that's not gonna go anywhere, but There is like this narrative now because of what happened with her.

Like, it does feel like the ethics of, of reporters and sources and all that has become like this big narrative for the past week.

I'm just curious if you, if, if, in paying attention to sort of what the discussions have become around the Rossini thing, if it's bothered you, if you, you know, have been annoyed by sort of everyone getting painted in a big brush and what you have to say about sort of how people think of now the reporter with sources kind of role.

Yeah, I mean, the, the one thing about me and I, I think thankfully, people have come to understand that I deal with on, on every level in the NBA is like, I'm gonna try to cover you as honestly as I, like my, my whole goal is to, is to be a servant for the audience.

I, I, I don't want, you know, there's always going to be narrative , you know, there's always gonna be context that certain sides will want to push and that's all , that's a part of every, everything.

In this, in this role, you probably deal with it as well, Jimmy, in, in what you do.

There's certain narrative points and context, which to me, to navigate those uh through those is, is, is, is what it is.

It's, it, it's a part of doing this, uh, you know, news, you know, news breaking and breaking news, you're gonna have to take everyone's side.

But I think whether it's a player, whether it's an agent, whether it's a team, whether it's, uh, the league, everyone, I think hopefully can vouch that I'm just gonna cover.

Them as honestly and as upfront, as responsibly and accurately as I possibly can.

And you know, you're not always gonna, gonna, you know, as the last week has shown, you're not always gonna please everyone, you know, but the job is for me, I look at it like I'm a servant for the audience.

If I'm gonna be a servant for the audience is what, what's best for the audience?

What's the information?

What do they need to know?

Like, I'm putting myself in their shoes and um.

You know, Milwaukee fans might not like me right now and might not think I'm doing the right thing, but I 100%, like, I, I can't worry about that.

I, I have to tell the truth all the time and as long as I'm comfortable with the sourcing and I'm comfortable with the relationship I've developed, and this has taken me since I was a sophomore in high school to now, so you think about 17 years now that I've been, I've been doing this.

So people might just look at the last, you know, 23 years, especially the last 2 years since I've been at ESPN, and there's a, there's a very easy way to be like, OK, let's look right at the end, but there are no shortcuts.

These, these things take years and years and years.

There have been relationships that have come, that have gone, that are back, resoiled, and it, it's just a part of life, it's a part of the industry, it's a part of doing this, it's a part of being a human being.

And, um, you know , I, I, I, and one thing about me, I think people that have worked with me in the past, I'm very tunnel vision like I really just focus on myself, whether that's selfish or unselfish , whether that's good or bad.

I, I, I, I really don't look left, I don't look right.

I'm very cognizant of what's going on, but what can I do?

What can I control on a daily basis, that's really where all my focus is on.

Yeah, I, you know, I, I just, it was weird because when the , the story over the past week happened, it was.

Yeah, I, I felt like initially it was like, oh , what, you know, how does this make female reporters look in the business.

Then it became about all reporters and the ethics of it and how you get sources and who's compromising and who's not compromising.

I don't know.

At first I was like, it's a one-off.

I don't, I don't know if we have to have this whole like referendum.

I'm on the reporter business going on, but I probably pay way too much attention to social media.

And then that's why I thought that, yeah, I'll, I'll take your, you're, like you, you've, you've covered it, so your, your, your perspective, I take probably even, even more into account than anyone else's.

I mean, I sort of look at it like this.

Maybe this is very simplistic, but I sort of look at it like , no matter what their profession is, it could be a teacher, a nurse, a lawyer, a cop, or a reporter or a podcaster.

There's good and there's bad.

There's people who do things the right way, who do things the wrong way.

There's people who make mistakes.

You want them, maybe sometimes they deserve a second chance.

It's like, that's how life is.

That's how every job is.

So, I, you know, I know we live in this time where like, you know, everyone has an opinion, so everything gets exacerbated, but like, You know, you would have thought it was the fall of civilization over the past week.

We'll be all right.

We'll survive.

Yeah, I mean, listen, there's always relationships you, you might like even, even, you know, someone in, in, in my shoes, like there are gonna be certain people that you might have more of a, you know, like you, I might know someone for longer than I've known the other person, but that to me that doesn't mean you're going to cover a story in a way that's, you know, more or less favorable than you would the other, and that's the one thing, you know, it's probably for my mental state isn't the best, but like I will treat.

The Luca Anthony Davis trade with the same amount of reverence and process as I would, you know, a 10-day contract or a, uh, minimum contract or, you know, a non-guaranteed deal.

As far as my process, how much I care.

Now, the public, totally different.

I, I don't wanna be rude, it's your first time on, but I don't believe that.

I, I promise.

When you hit send, when you hit send on a 10-day contract versus hitting send on Lucas, I'm saying the process of it, the process is it of it is all always the same.

It's tried and true, and, uh, yeah, the excitement level obviously is a little you wanna be right.

You gotta be accurate.

You gotta be fair, yeah, so I get it.

Yeah, I get it from that standpoint, but from the You know, there's, there's, there , there's always others where you know that like this is, this is, this is gonna be really big.

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So take me through sort of like the day to day and I want your perspective on like the life of an insider because like I said, we've heard a lot of, we've, we've heard about no time and you're, you can't have dinner and you can't do this and two phones and the, and, um, I, it's, and, you know, the NBA is a very long season and the NBA is sort of in a way like the NFL now where there's no offseason because there's always stuff going on in the offseason.

So, I'm curious, like your day to day.

Do you get downtime?

How, how many hours of the day are you putting in and stuff like that?

Yeah, I mean, my days begin early, you know, anywhere from 6 onward.

Um, and, you know, every day to me is an extension of the prior day when in terms of communication and who I'm talking to and You know there's always people you want to check on that maybe you haven't spoke for spoke to for a while and you know I love it, you know, I, I, I, I crave it.

I know nothing else.

I wake up every day.

How can I inform the audience in the, in the best possible way?

How can I do that it is, it is not, but it is an alert to call someone for for potentially something we might have later.

So that's the only thing I can tease for you.

But hopefully, hopefully fingers crossed what I'm working on, and you'll see it hopefully later today, uh, but.

Um, you know, I, I love this.

Like, uh, this is all I've dreamt of.

I, I've, I've thought, I've, I've wanted my whole life to be someone that, you know, I was obsessing over the news as far as trade, signings, free agency, transactions.

Where's this coach going?

What's happening with this coach, uh, what's going on behind the scenes with this team?

Like why is this happening?

What, like, I grew up very inquisitive about all that, so to be in this position now, like I feel like I'm living out my dream and I also feel like.

In terms of the fan who I cater to, I feel like I know them just as well.

I feel like I'm catering to them because I'm catering to myself, and so I don't think there's anyone that knows the fan and what the fan desires and what the fan wants more than me as far as the NBA, as far as from an informational perspective, because that's how I grew up, um, you know, there's the game.

I watch the game.

I love the game.

There's all these elements like today on NBA day, we'll be talking about LaMelo Ball and that play with Bam Adebayo and what's the league doing and there's, there's layers that come from the game, but there's also whether it's free agency, trade deadline, this draft, whatever, like there's all these other layers and tentacles to the game that it's your job and so I love it.

Um, I think my family would probably feel like I'm going through a life crisis.

If I ever was at a dinner or if I was ever on a vacation or a trip with them and I wasn't on my phone for a vast majority of it, um, that's just, I mean, I think they, yeah, this is, they, they know they know nothing else they love me for who I am, they appreciate when I'm present that I can try to be as present as I can, but they also understand like this is something that I consider to be a life purpose and so, um.

I, I, I never feel spent.

I never feel burned out.

I, I feel like, I feel like my star is, is, is, is, is hope is, is, uh, my hope continues to shine and shine for, for years and years and years to come.

Where has been the craziest place you've broken a story from?

So, I mean, there's definitely been some crazy, you know, planes.

I think that's a standard one, you know, you're in the air on Wi Fi, you're taking off, you need to get a tweet off, um.

Where else?

The shower, um, the shower, the shower happens much more than people know.

Yeah, you gotta.

How is the shower phone and the, how's the phone in the shower?

What do you you get the phone wet.

You, you, you end up getting the phone wet.

I hate to say it.

I mean, thankfully, I think this new iPhone model, it can take it, but, uh, you know, I probably messed up previous iPhones.

Uh, where else?

Where else?

um, so you like tweeting out a trade while you're in the shower.

I don't think I've broken a big trade in the shower.

I mean, maybe I've broken, you know, some contracts and injuries and things in the shower, but I, not, you know, big trade, you're, you're usually you're, you're in position or you know the time is coming.

The only one where I, again, I had no idea, you know, no one in the world did was the Luca for AD one, which was, you know, at 11 whatever at night, and I'm sitting there.

I have a flight to Bristol the next morning at like 6 in the morning and I'm like.

You know, getting ready to honestly shut it down and then that came out of nowhere and obviously, you know, up all night became a whole thing.

But how long was it from when you got tipped off that that trade was happening to when you posted the trade?

Was, how long was that process?

11:05 central time and I tweeted it at 11:12 central time, so 7 minutes.

What was, but I will say the, the, the, the days leading up to that trade, there was rumors around the league.

There was talk around the league.

I got a barrage of texts around the league, like maybe Wednesday, Thursday going to that weekend that , hey, the Lakers and Mavs are talking about a deal, Daniel Gafford to the Lakers.

It's happening, and I checked.

I was told no, there's nothing.

Daniel Gafford is not being traded, no trade with Daniel Gafford the Lakers.

So, you know, I kind of had a feel that they're working on, maybe they're working on something because there was a rumor, but it was shut down so adamantly, and, uh, you know, multiple sources told me there's nothing to it .

And then you fast forward, you know, a few days later, and then you get the tip on that, and I don't think about those other rumors until maybe a day or two later, right, because you're so engulfed in, in the Luca AD of it all, and then you think, you know, you have some time to like go over everything and, and just like, like think about like what just happened , and then you're like, you know what.

Like I, I literally did hear that they were, so this is clearly what they were working on.

Like when I got the tip a few days prior that there's something going on.

So, but that's, that's life in this.

So 12:05, you get 11:05 central, you get the news, you break it at 11:12.

Are those the craziest seven minutes of your life?

I mean, I don't know what's going on in your personal life.

We could leave that out of it, but like, can you recall 2020 was a wild time too though.

Like 2020 with, with COVID, COVID, Rudy Gobert testing positive, the league shutting down, uh, you know, suspending.

There was such a a cavalcade of events that occurred in 2020 that, you know, I, that to me brought so much experience, real life.

Experience for me because no one is going to journalism school, no one is going into this, no one's thinking about, hey, I'm, I wanna cover the NBA to, you know, to then be like, oh, like, you know, you're gonna be um in 2020 I was how old?

Um, 26 years old and.

You know, it thrust into, into something that, you know, maybe hopefully, hopefully never seen before, you know, in terms of the bubble and, and what the NBA went, uh, what every professional league went through.

I, I don't remember all of the specifics of it, but I felt like the COVID stuff, I feel like a lot of reporters went like we're in on that where like the trade with AD and that was you.

That was a Sean special.

Yeah, I mean, definitely that was crazy, but you know, the way it developed was.

Like one source hit me, was like, hey, you know, like this player is going here.

It's like, you know, Maxi Kleber, Markeith Morris is going to the Lakers .

It's like, Oh, that's interesting.

Then another source will be like, Yeah, Maxi Kleber , Mark Morris, yeah, the other players going there.

It's like, you know, OK, Markeith Morris and Maxi Kleber are going to the Lakers.

Like, is this a salary dump?

Like what is this trade?

And then, you know, a third source says, yeah, it's, it's, uh, you know, Jalen Hoochafino is going to Utah.

It's a 3 team deal.

And I'm like, what is this trade?

And then, you know, the 4th person I, I got all the details from, you know, basically 4, 45, you know, another person basically was like, yeah, that's what it is.

And there was one more call I had to make and I remember I, I called this person because I knew this person was in the middle of all of it and would know, uh, and is probably dealing with this and I'm like, hey.

Is this fucking real?

And only, and I didn't say what it was.

I said, is this fucking real?

And the person was like, yeah, it is, and I hung up and you know, then I'm like, you know, my hands are like trembling because you know this is the one tweet and I hate typos, hate typos.

That's like, that's like I will lose sleep.

I will lose sleep over typos and that's the one tweet where I'm like I cannot have a typo on this tweet.

So I like went over and over and over again and probably took me a couple of minutes and.

It's funny.

I've probably sent 100 tweets saying I wish there was an edit button on Twitter.

And then, but we got the edit button after Elon had already ruined Twitter.

So then it was the edit button .

The edit button is a little flawed.

You know why it's flawed?

Because you have to regain the views on the tweet.

So it's like basically sending it, like if I'm just, if I'm, me personally, if I'm gonna edit a tweet, I might as well just delete it and then put up a new one because it's basically, that's basically the same effect in my opinion.

So yeah, I get you.

I got you.

Last thing on Twitter, the, the Luca AD thing.

I'm just curious.

You hit send, it goes out to the world.

Obviously just insanity takes place and you're probably, I would imagine, still sort of working in a way after you send the tweet because you're hearing from people.

I don't know if, but do you get, do you get a minute?

To sort of fist pump, pat yourself on the back, say, fuck yes, I did it, like any of that, like no celebrate like that, no, any like internal celebration probably didn't occur for maybe a week or two, and it wasn't even, I wouldn't even say celebration.

It's like, yo, that was big.

I don't think it really hit me how big it was because again, my mind, it's the what, the why , the how, there's SportsCenter responsibilities.

I'm thinking about doing SportsCenter.

That night I, I ended up going on SportsCenter within 20 minutes, and I remember that night my phone was blown.

I've never had that amount of texts and calls.

It was a point where like, literally, I feel like my phone was malfunctioning.

Like Pat McAfee was one of the maybe 5 or 6 people I picked up for like Stephen A, Pat McAfee, Pete McConville, uh, who's a SportsCenter, one of the SportsCenter late night producers, um, a couple other NBA types that I ended up picking up, a few other NBA types I ended up picking up for.

And it got to the point where like I remember I, I took a I took Pat's FaceTime and I had to do it off my laptop because my phone literally, it just like I just kept getting calls and I think most of them were people checking on me, making sure I'm good, like the amount of texts like are you OK?

Did someone take your phone?

Are, are you in trouble?

Um and so, you know, that's, that's a lot of what it was and um, you know, I ended up going on SportsCenter 20 minutes later.

I had to do the SportsCenter the next morning, I think like 6 or 7 in the morning, barely.

I probably slept like 30 minutes that night and then, um, my whole thing the next, you know, it's like on to the next.

That's how I've always been with with everything I do is just like, OK, I break this like what's next and that's how I'm wired.

You know, you said you, you picked up the calls from McAfee and Stephen A.

The juicy part there is, who did you ignore?

Like who was really big that you ignored?

I'm, I'm not, you know, did you blow off Mike Greenberg?

I, I don't wanna feel bad about it.

I don't wanna feel because I, I do feel bad.

I mean, there's a lot, hopefully people understand.

Yeah.

All right, let, let me, let's get, let me transition here again into this Milwaukee Bucks thing.

So because I, I.

Uh, in doing the research, I can't even believe what I've read about this.

So, Doc Rivers, uh, so, OK, you correct me here along the way.

I'm gonna lay it out for the listeners.

You've reported stuff about the Bucks, Giannis, Obviously, they've had this horrific season.

There's all this controversy surrounding them not playing Giannis.

Giannis is healthy, Giannis wants to play, etc.

And then Doc Rivers comes out and says he misses Woj, as which is obviously a shot at you in your reporting.

And then I see an article that says like, this stems from the NBA All-Star game or something, and it says here that, um, I, I, you played poorly in the game and you didn't want a clip out there or something.

And Sean, according to Doc Rivers, you reached out to the Bucks front office about the clip.

I mean, this is so, this is like one of those, you know, you think it's made up.

And then obviously, I know Rivers got fired.

You actually had some great shots on McAfee's show towards the Bucks saying they should be worried about their organization and not you.

So, Take me through this, clear up whatever is not right or what's not accurate.

Yeah, like I'm not gonna go back and forth.

My job is to, again, like accurately 100% report what it is, and, you know, um, you know, as far as me calling someone and yelling at someone about a post being taken down.

Jimmy, you should call the Bucks, and you should ask the Bucks, who did Shams call and yell at?

To take this post down because that's, that's what was alleged, right?

So I guess the answer is gonna be no one because it never happened.

I never, that never happened, but Rivers, Rivers said that during All-Star Weekend, Giannis should have traded you.

And then that is the clip that you called to get taken off the internet, I guess is, I, yeah, I mean, again, I, I stick to what I do and, and what I what I can report on and, um.

You know, again, this whole season for the, for the Bucks, everyone can see what has transpired there, um, you know, I'm not the only, so to me that's the ultimate, I'm not the only person reporting on this.

Um, I might have the most information potentially, um, but listen, um, the Bucks are in a position right now where they're still being investigated by the NBA.

Because they wanted to shut down their star player, and their star player rejected the shutdown, did not want to be shut down, and pushed to play.

Um, their own player, their star, sparked, led.

And encouraged an NBA investigation into the organization to potentially get them reprimanded.

I mean that tells you all you need to know about the situation.

I'm just gonna continue to do my job.

I'm not, I'm not here to, you know, one thing about me, it's, it's, it's always just about the work and it's not personal and um.

You know, if, if people want to make it personal, I can't control that.

And as far as what I said on Pat's show, like I don't hopefully what I said, you know, I thought about it a little more.

Did I like that's not, that's, you know, I'm, I always high road, how can I take high road always, um, and I never want to be someone that comes across as being like, oh I'm just gonna go back and forth like that's not me.

I, I hope that everyone can move on.

And just everyone can just do the job.

Like I just wanna do my job and, and, um, you know, and I've been reporting on this since, since obviously last summer.

I think if a guy's gonna accuse you of quote unquote writing a revenge article based on a comment from NBA All-Star Weekend, you have every right to fire back.

I mean, you could, I understand you.

Yeah, I mean, the reporting that is just, you know, it was said that the reporting, you know, it was alleged that the reporting was inaccurate, but But then it was also confirmed that that's exactly what was said as far as Google me, look at my resume, and so again I, I'm, I'm unsure which part is inaccurate.

Like I, I, I still don't know, but maybe one day we'll, we'll, we'll, you know, the reporting is the reporting.

I stand 100% by it.

And, now, not to get all Doc Rivers here on you, but it did you really have no points in 33 turnovers in that All-Star game?

I, I, I went 0 for 43 turnovers.

I think I played like 12 or 13 minutes.

Um, yeah , I mean, I, I wish I played better.

Of course, I wish I played better.

Uh, I'm glad we won though, and I was part of the closing lineup, you know, as we won, uh, you know, my team also had Jeremy Linn, Taco Fall.

We were a stacked team.

Um, I just had, for me it was a lot of fun.

I had my family out there to see the, the, the joy, smiles and laughter from my family.

Uh, it would have, uh, it made me feel like I had scored 45 points, uh, um.

You know, but thankfully I'm, I'm judged on my reporting.

Yes, oh, that's a, that was, I didn't watch it , but you know, I saw the stat line.

I, yeah, it wasn't good.

I said if things are going good, the shams, I'll bring it up.

If not, you know, um, since you're talking about the Bucks because they did have some topics I wanted to address, let's get to the tanking.

Um, uh, I know that if I say to a reporter, is it 100% sure that we'll get some anti-tanking rule, you'll say, well, nothing's 100%.

So would you say it's 99% sure that we will see some sort of anti-tanking rule coming for next season?

Jimmy, I can report on your show, it is 100% certainty there will be anti-tanking rules and 99.

5%, it will be all set in stone.

By May 28th when the NBA Board of Governors will vote on which exact anti-tanking proposal it will be.

So, there's been multiple different proposals.

I've reported on it.

There's one flattening of the odds.

There's another one that's a 5 by 5 model.

There's another 1, uh, 22 team model with the playoff teams and So, as well, so these are all being tweaked right now.

They're all being modified, they're all being discussed.

The NBA is holding meetings literally every day, every week, trying to meet with their owners, with their general managers, with presidents and financial people , like every, every single person in the NBA that you can.

Think of they're all wrapping their head around this and trying to find a solution because the NBA believes and Adam Silver has been vocal on a lot of these calls from my understanding, saying that this is a very serious problem that the league has.

This is like this race to the bottom and essentially like this, this victory lap that's being taken for being at the bottom and you know, Adam, Adam Silver, the owners, the GMs, they're all on the same page of finding a solution and, and it's, it sounds very much like they'll get there by the end of May.

So, all right, so it's definitely gonna happen, but you, you don't know the plan yet.

They're still trying to figure out the, the plan and the rules that they'll, that they'll.

There's been reporting done.

I, we've done reporting at ESPN for, for weeks, months now on like what potential outcomes that there could be.

I think what you're gonna see is you're gonna see some one version of all of these things modified, tweaked, and, and they'll come up with it, and we'll know.

You, you can't have teams fouling while they have a lead and fouling Steph Curry .

I mean, I, well, the NBA did do an investigation on that, and that was actually an error that was made by the coach, uh, Doug Christie.

So it was a strategic error, not that, but I mean, you, you know, you think about it, and in the span of a week.

In the NBA you had one team being investigated because they told a told a player in Giannis to shut down, but that player Giannis is then going out doing interviews saying, I'm 100%, I'm healthy, I can play.

My team is not letting me play.

There should be an investigation.

And then the next week right after that, you have an NBA coach being investigated for potential tanking violation.

By committing a foul to a, you know, amazing free throw shooter late in the game, you know, but that was deemed a strategic error.

But all in a one-week span, that's, that's a lot.

Since, since you were fine saying it's 100%, we'll get a new tanking rule, is it 100% Giannis will be on a team other than the Bucks next year?

I'm not giving, uh, percentage predictions on this.

I think.

heavily, most likely on a new team next year, would you say?

I mean.

I, I think, I think a lot of people expect it.

I think a lot of teams expect that's the route the Bucks take because the Bucks are in a position right now.

They have 3 1st round picks.

They have quadrupled down on this team time and time again, and the crux of all of this is Giannis and his camp let the Bucks know last May that it was time to move on.

The time had come.

We need to part ways.

End of the line is here with this organization, with this team.

Doc Rivers and John Horst.

Believed if they make a move like the Miles Turner, Damian Lillard move, that this team could compete in the Eastern Conference.

They sold Giannis on that and they sold ownership on that.

And when that doesn't happen, when that plays out the way it played out this year, it looks like it was a mis miscalculation of that.

And that Giannis in a lot of ways was proven right, that he had doubts about the roster.

He had doubts about where this team was really going.

That's why he felt like it was time.

And so now you fast forward.

You have 3 1st round picks.

They've quadrupled down.

They, they went and got Drew, they gave up a bunch of picks.

They went out and got Dame, they gave a bunch of picks.

They wave and strike Damian Lillard $113 million to go give $108 to Miles Turner.

So you've already quadrupled down in the Giannis era.

You could, you could, you could potentially quintuple that.

Like you could say , listen, we're gonna package a couple of players like Bobby Ports and Kyle Kuzma and take 3 1st round picks that we have, and we could go all in.

But the question in Milwaukee that they're asking, the, the front office is, let's say even if we do that, the guy that we bring in, does that take us to a championship contention level in the east?

If they feel like it does, like they might like.

I can't, again, I, I, I'm not in the prediction game.

I'm in the facts game and um.

I, what I do know is that the draft combine in May and come June and come July, Giannis is still on the roster, the Bucks will be getting a ton of calls, a ton of offers.

They have already shown that they're ready and willing to engage like they did at the trade deadline on offers and, and go back and forth with, with teams.

And I think there's an expectation around the league that they will do the same this, this, this offseason.

All right.

I, I, you just said you don't want to do speculation.

You want facts, so I'm gonna be a jerk and ask you to speculate.

Do you think this is LeBron's last season?

Or, well, let me, well, let me ask it this way.

Do you think what happens in the playoffs here will have any factor in his decision to retire, not retire?

I mean, like, listen, it's a long shot, but like if you won, if he won the title, it could be a nice way to end a career.

If he loses in the first round, is he bummed out?

Like, take.

Injuries as well, right?

Like injury, like, like, yeah, yeah, that they got killed.

I think the Lakers and the NBA and all the networks got killed by the Lakers being injured here because I think if they're fully healthy with LeBron, Luke, they, they are a massive story in the postseason.

I, I, I think going into the postseason, the feel that I get around LeBron James is he's gonna play, play at least one more season, don't know where, could be back in LA, could be so like that's for LeBron James to figure out.

Like LeBron James will end up figuring out what's best for me.

Is it staying in LA?

Is it trying to go somewhere else like a Cleveland, a Denver, a New York.

Like there's not gonna be, I, I think there's gonna be multiple teams that would be involved if LeBron says, you know, on the eve of free agency or in June, I'm ready to open it up.

But I, I think there is an expectation going into this offseason, uh, this, this playoffs that this offseason LeBron will ultimately decide, hey.

Based on how I'm feeling, based on how I'm playing, I mean, you could still see he has a lot left in the tank.

He has a lot left in the tank, and he can contribute.

He can contribute toward a championship.

It's been an underrated story, I think, the whole season that this guy is the age he is triple-doubles, player of the week.

I, it's, it's, to me, it's gone under the radar.

You can tell, and I'm not breaking news.

I hope I don't have LeBron James fans coming at me.

You can tell.

His numbers in his game has, has, I mean, it's father time.

He's taken a step back, not, not only in game but in role, right?

Like he took that number to role, but that doesn't mean he can't be that dude and that doesn't mean he can't put up the numbers that Like since Luca and Austin Reeves got hurt, I mean, he's averaged, I think, 27, 11, and 7.

Like the guy is still the man, and it's just what role and how does he play that can allow a team to win a championship.

I think LeBron James at this point in his career at the age of 41, I think he would welcome being the number 2 or number 3 option, like the role that he took, uh, with Austin Reeves and Luka Dacic, uh, before they both got hurt.

I'm not breaking news here.

I think that's his basketball analysis, um, and so, you know, the way he's playing, he's, he can still be a very significant contributor to a championship team , arguably the best player on any given night, and I think for that reason, I think there's an expectation he's gonna keep playing.

Um, but again, you never know what happens in the playoffs.

You never know what happens with the body, the injuries and things like that.

So I'm not, I'm, it's, it's all with an asterisk, and at the end of the day it's gonna be his call.

Yeah, I, I, I, NBC, ESPN, you guys over there, and, uh, Amazon, I mean, they got so screwed because if it, they, the with the ratings being up.

And, you know, and obviously , there's this new Nielsen measurement, but people tuning in more to ABC and NBC over broadcast.

If you had those three healthy, Lakers, I, I think the ratings really would have, you would have seen a huge ratings bump there.

But, you know, we'll see what happens with those guys.

Um, I I don't know if I even have a question about this.

I just want to make a sort of a statement about it.

I found, I found, now, I'm coming at this as a degenerate gambler.

So, I, I, I am biased in a way, but I, I find it so funny that at one point this season, Everyone thought the sky was falling and the NBA was done because there was a, a, a gambling scandal.

And I feel like after like two days, we haven't heard one word about it.

Like, we have not heard one word about it since it happened and everyone, the overreaction for everyone was just ridiculous.

And I think people waiting for like all of these like things to come out of the woodwork, that didn't happen.

Um, but do you think the NBA did a good job in sort of how they handled that whole thing with Rogier and, um, Chauncey Billups was involved, I guess even though he's not in the league, but you know, yeah, I mean that was led by the FBI, you know, like the FBI is the one that, that ended up on the eve of the season, uh, arresting Chauncey Billups and Terry Rozier and Damon Jones, who's a blast from the NBA's past.

And so the NBA in a lot of ways had to fact find afterward as well a little bit, even though they were monitoring the Terry Rozier situation.

There was a lot that came out of nowhere with the FBI and so.

Um, you know, the NBA obviously had done an investigation on Terry Rozier.

They took his phone.

They're able to go through his phone, and, and there was nothing on his phone that showed anything.

But you know what the NBA can't do is they can't do what the FBI does and what the federal system does, which is we're gonna go subpoena this person.

We're gonna go talk to this person.

We're gonna go knock knock down this person's door like.

Um, go get Terry Rozier's friend to give us his phone and like what's in his phone.

Like the NBA just can't do that.

They don't have the, uh, reprimanding ability to go, go down that investigative path.

So I, I listen, the investigations.

You know, are what they are.

This legal process will play out potentially over years, and I think we're not gonna really know the full scope of everything until Chauncey Billups, Terry Rozier, Damon Jones, all of these cases, and like I, I think the next date this is gonna go to trial, maybe in September, so this is not gonna like we're not gonna know the full scope of, of all of this potentially for, for a little bit of time.

Um, this is a totally random one, but I've always wanted to ask you this.

Why, why and how did you break the first three picks of the NFL draft in 2023?

Well, I think I, I, I think I, in the tweet, I said I'm, I'm, I'm bored in the house.

I'm in the house I think that was like a viral as an NBA insider.

I, I would just say there were some sources that overlapped and, uh, you know, that summer was interesting because I picked up a lot of contacts in different realms.

I, I was really bored at different points because I, my, my whole life is structured around games and covering the league and everything and, uh.

You know, at that point, you know, the, the, you know, Donald Trump, the, the, uh, he, he came up with a sports return to sports committee, and there was a bunch of people on that committee from all these different sporting lanes, Robert Kraft, Mark Cuban, etc.

and I remember digging in on, on the meetings, uh, that were taking place with the return to sports under, under Trump's watch, and uh I picked up some political context during that as well.

And so, you know, I think I just I just got a little, little bored.

I got a little antsy to, to, to do some stuff.

Would you ever want to branch out from the NBA?

Maybe not leave the NBA, but if, you know, they ask you like, oh, in the offseason, you wanna do NFL insider stuff, MLB insider stuff, or no, I, I, I stick to this.

I stick to what I, what I know, what I, what I, you know, what I, what I feel like I, I'm truly passionate about, and, uh, you know, that's, that's my always my inkling.

I, I can't ever, I can't ever do something.

I'm not like fully, fully committed in.

So it's NBA only for champs.

NBA only.

OK.

I know everyone listening to this has two things they're waiting for me to ask you about, which is one, Kay Adams, and two, the relationship with Woj.

Which of those topics would annoy you more if I asked you about it?

Nothing annoys me, Jimmy.

OK, so then let me ask you this because I think it was really nice when Woj left.

And you guys both had nice things to say to each other, say, say about each other because there was this thing about a rift and you were both very quiet about never sort of discussing the rift cause I think I've, I've asked both of you to come on and you've both said I'm never not discussing this and I get it.

And now, oh, let me backtrack with this.

When Woj left ESPN that shocking announcement that he was leaving, it really was a shocker.

I, the second it happened, I said to everyone, well, Shams will replace him.

Just made, did, when you heard the announcement, did you think you were going to end up at ESPN, or did you think it had to play out for a little bit first?

What was your reaction when that happened?

My, my first reaction was I was, I was shocked, and, uh, you know, but at the end of the day, you're happy for someone to find, you know, whatever the pieces in life and, and the next path, whatever you're passionate about, and, and.

You know, I was just happy for him, um, you know, I, I, I, I wrote a congratulations when, when Adrian made the Hall of Fame as well, and we had a, we had a conversation that week too, and, you know, we, we, our schools, I think at one point were rival, rivals, uh, Loyola Chicago and, and Saint Bonaventure, so.

You know, maybe, maybe there's a time we'll, uh, we'll go, we'll go, we'll go to a game at some point and, uh, be around that.

But listen, this is someone that I worked with for 2+ years at Yahoo, and the team, I still think all the time about the team that Adrian put up, put together at the vertical, you know, Chris Mannix, uh, Michael Lee, Jonathan Gavvoni, Mike Schmidtz, Nick De Paula, Bobby Marks.

The group that that was put together at the vertical, I look at that as like the dream team, and I was just honored, grateful, cherished every day being a part of that group , and I'm so glad and and honored to have had that experience.

So you, you guys communicate these days at all?

I, I mean, I'm so wrapped into what I do.

I'm sure he's wrapped into what he does, but I, I mean, it's just, when you work with someone, there's always that level of communication, um, but right now, um, you know, I'm sure everyone's just focused on their job.

I'm glad that was the rift as bad as everyone made it out to be.

I, I, I would, I bet it wasn't, but, you know, there was a lot of, you know, chatter, speculation about a rift.

It was, was it as bad as we thought or not really, and it just, you know, shit happens.

I mean for me it's, it's, you worry about your, your, your work and what you do and like I said, I've always been tunnel vision with everything I do.

So when I was at the athletic, it was about what can I control, who's on my team, what do I do.

And, um, you know, I think a lot of it is just natural, you know, competition and competitiveness.

I'm not gonna ask you really anything about Kay Adams, but I will just say this.

I, when, whenever, you know, there was, uh, uh, you know, playful flirtation, whatever, I have to, I, I like, I have to thank you in a way.

Because the comments that would come about on those videos were, were hysterical.

Like, just everyone calling you Riz God and, and all that stuff.

It really was like just funny stuff.

So, um, as someone who enjoys good content, I need to thank you for you and Kay for that.

Did you get a kick out of people's response to you guys sort of having the playful banter?

I, I mean, for me, I, I thought that, uh, it, it, it.

I didn't, I didn't know what to expect.

I mean, I, just two people just are just to me I looked at it as organic and natural and just like, um, it, it, it wasn't anything that you talked about beforehand, you know.

I made appearances on, on the show and I'm still a big supporter of Kay's and.

And follow her, her work obviously a lot.

So, uh, I took that as, as, I mean, the internet, you never know with the internet.

So you never know with the, you know , I, I just realized what I wanted to ask you too before we wrap.

Being that this is the first year we've had inside the NBA at ESPN, you've been on there with Ernie and Chuck and Kenny and Shaq.

What has that been like as someone who, you know, I'm sure.

You're part of the NBA.

You've watched them all these years.

It's the greatest studio show of all time.

Now you're on there with them.

What's that been like to interact with those guys?

I mean, they're legends and thankfully I, I have some history with, with all like I've done stuff at Turner, you know, in the past and have been around Shaq and Ernie and Kenny.

And Charles, and so, uh, for me, it's, it's just, it fits, it makes sense.

It's right.

It's what's best for the, for, for everyone, fans, audience, uh, for, for them to be on, on, on the biggest stage.

So, uh, it's, it's just an honor to, to even be someone that's, that's involved to any degree.

And, and ESPN has the finals.

You were part of it last year, you have it this year, um.

Do you like, I mean, you're an insider, that's your role.

Do you, would you ever want to change?

Like, would you ever wanna be in the arena on this, like doing sidelines or you're happy with what you got, or would you want anything, you, I know you said you want to stick with NBA, but anything within the role of NBA that you'd like to try maybe someday?

I mean, I'm always trying to be better and better every day with everything I do, TV, whatnot, um, and, and I have done a little bit of sideline stuff in the past, like, not, not a ton, but No, I mean, my focus is doing the job of the highest of my ability and just listening to the people that instruct me and, and are my, my, my higher ups.

You don't like predictions, but can I ask you for an NBA Finals prediction?

I got nothing for you.

I just hope for great games.

Yeah, I got nothing.

All right, I get it.

I get it.

I get it.

All right, well, I appreciate you coming on.

Thanks, Jimmy.

It was long overdue.

Like I said, Thank you very much, and, and, uh, good luck here with the playoffs.

Appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

Thanks, Jimmy.

Appreciate you.

Now I'm gonna run to get this call.

So yeah, go ahead.

Thanks.