Michigan's Warde Manuel On The Way Out –– ACC Media Day Preview | Others Receiving Votes

All right.

Welcome to the show.

Others receiving votes, Sports Illustrated podcast, SI.

com.

I'm Pat 40, joined by my SI colleagues , Brian Fisher and Kevin Sweeney.

It's talking season now, guys.

Uh, we got the, the rhetoric from the Big 12 last week.

We've got the rhetoric from the ACC this week.

SEC the following, and Big 10 after that, and by then we will have heard all the last complaints, uh, how great everybody's offseason was in the weight room.

What the culture, how great the culture is at every school and why everybody's going 13-0.

Um, but in the meantime, let's, uh, we've got some other things to discuss.

Uh, topic that has been a reliable, uh, boiler, I guess, for the last several years, scandal at Michigan, controversy at Michigan, unrest at Michigan.

They win a lot, but they also fill the bingo card with other stuff.

And uh Ward Manuel, the longtime athletic director, could be in his last days on the job, although he, Did an interview with the Michigan Insider, says, you know, hey, I'm, I'm still doing the job, bah bah bah bah bah.

So, uh, I guess that's what you say until you're not doing the job.

But uh there is a Board meeting on Thursday to discuss findings of the $11 million.

Investigation by an outside legal counsel of Athletic department practices, uh, if you spend $11 million you probably aren't coming back with.

Everything's fine, keep going.

Just uh maintain the status quo.

So I think the expectation is that that'll be it for Ward.

We'll see if that actually holds true, but, Uh, if he does get pushed out after his men's basketball program won a national title, and 3 years removed from his football team winning a national title, and overall, the athletic departments still winning at a high level, uh, is this the right call?

Uh, what's, what do, what do you think, Brian?

Well, first we gotta say and, and acknowledge that, um, you know, in the pantheon of college athletics billable hours, getting $11 million not even produce a written report, like that is, is A plus stuff like Gold Star to, to the law firm that they hired, uh, you know, like that, that seems like, uh, you know, one of those like, uh, easy courses in college, you know, where you do the oral report and you're, you're done, but like it's amazing and look, you know, you kind of hit upon it, uh, early on there, Pat, like.

You know spend $11 million to, to go through everything, you know, tooth and nail, uh, throughout the department, have multiple scandals in multiple sports, have multiple presidents come in at this point to, to not end up making a change.

So, I think there is going to be Something down the road now, Ward has been pretty consistent, um, publicly and privately in terms of saying, look, I'm still doing the job.

We'll see if that changes on officially on Thursday, but, um, I think even before kind of this week, you know, it seemed like his days were, were numbered.

He, he does seem like a little bit of a cat in terms of The 9 lives that he has had there as the athletic director, but, um, you know, I think it, it's an interesting situation and I think really it's a, a great job that a lot of people are gonna be all, you know, like this is a, a chance to kind of start fresh, you know, if you are a potential new AD there, uh, you know, in , in Michigan, you got uh, a short-term contract there for the basketball coach, you got a Uh, older, uh, football coach who, let's face it is probably not going to see a second contract, um, you know, even if things go really, really well there.

So like this could be, uh, a marquee job opening in college athletics, and I think that's kind of what everybody from the outside is certainly looking, at, at, at the situ situation there, uh, in Ann Arbor, and, um, I, I think increasingly that is the, the, the scuttlebutt there, uh, in town as well.

Should he go?

I, I, I think so, you know, and I think, look, Ward has done a lot of good, good stuff there.

Like, let's, let's not, uh, you know, after the disastrous Dave Brandon era, um, and, uh, seemingly upsetting everybody, uh, there in, uh, Michigan with some of the, uh, kind of business first initiatives like, you know, Ward is very Much more, you know, much more of a people person.

Um, he obviously has ties to Bohimbele as a, as a player, um, you know, there he, he kind of has that Michigan man persona down.

He, he does have some good relationships with, uh, with donors.

He's kind of pushed forward the athletic department, um, you know, in terms of some of the initiatives there, and, uh, you know, I, I think there's some, a lot of positives to his tender, including winning, you know, national titles and, and the two most prominent sports that you can have, uh, in college athletics nowadays, but Um, you know, there's the Matt Weiss scandal.

There is, uh, everything that went on with Sharon Moore.

Like, it's just, at some point, all that, you know, kind of adds up and , um, you know, to say he was, you know, Uh, you know, very much, uh, you know, in terms of, uh , looking over his department and, and making sure everything was, was running smoothly.

Like, I, I don't think you can say that at this point.

So, um, you know, whoever the, you know , the, the new president coming in, uh, I think there was always going to be an expectation that at some point, you know, whether it's negotiated, whether it's, um, you know, with cause, um, you know, he was gonna be shown the door, uh, politely and nicely, uh, down the road, and there would be a kind of a, a reboot there for the entire athletic department, which, frankly, after all these scandals is probably needed.

Yeah, I mean, look, this, this isn't LSU, right?

Like, for, for, for lack of a better way of putting it, like, Michigan, I think, not only expects to to win at the highest level, but also, you know, portray themselves a certain way, and they've done the winning and haven't done the portrayal part, and that's certainly not all on Ward Manuel, in fact, I guess most of it probably isn't on him , but You're the boss, like, at some point, it's just a little too much to bear.

Um, the timing is weird, like, there's no question about it, and as you said, you know, the crossroads of, of Whittingham and, and everything that comes with that, but, like, I mean, he was making the decision, or at least being heavily involved in making the decision on, like, what contract to give Mike Boynton last week, like that that is the part that is just hard to wrap your brain around, is that.

Um, you know, he, he has made so many important decisions in the last, you know, weeks, months, even, you know, the last year, when, like, the facts probably haven't changed all that greatly, the ability to get him out maybe has a little bit with the, uh, the investigation that is, as you said, it's, it's coming to completion, uh, here soon, but I, I don't know, I, I'm, I'm very mixed, I have mixed feelings about this because I think if you've, if you've let it ride this long, part of me says, like, Let's go down to the ship, and I don't know that the ship has sunk just yet.

Yeah, that, that, the thing that really surprised me is I thought if Ward was gonna go, and I did back when the Sharon Moore stuff blew up.

I, I mean, I figured that was, he would fall quickly.

I didn't think he'd have a chance to hire the next coach.

Uh, and he did, and then he oversaw a national championship, and then Dusty May leaves, and then they hired Mike Boynton, and, and, yeah, I'd kind of forgotten exactly how big of a, of a mess it had all been at, at that point.

And so I was, uh, I figured this would happen sooner.

I think it needs to happen.

I agree.

Uh, yes, he is.

A lot of good things have happened, but it's also Michigan where good things should always be happening.

It's, I don't think it's, you, you need a genius athletic director to win at a high level at Michigan.

You need an athletic director who could put up with Jim Harbaugh and who kept Jim Harbaugh when he was losing every year to Ohio State.

Those were two strengths of Ward Manuel there.

You need an athletic director who could outflank everybody else to hire Dusty May.

That was great.

So you give him credit for that, but in terms of how expensive the glory has been there.

3, a potential $30 million NCAA fine when all is said and done for the bass of the football allegations, not allegations of violations.

And now an $11 million investigation of the workings of the athletic department.

$41 million worth of uh financial hit to go along with two national championships and some other stuff.

So, uh, there is a price being paid, and when the price is that high, I think it's time for Ward Manuel to go.

Uh, interesting, kind of conflicted legacy.

We, we covered this to a degree here in terms of all that, but, uh, Kevin, What, how would you describe Manuel's tenure and his legacy?

Did he do a good job?

Was he a good AD?

What, what do you think ?

I mean, for me, I define these things almost exclusively on hires, like , you, you like, when the big sports, what did you get done?

And Ward made some made maybe the best basketball hire of the last, you know, 5 to 10 years, uh, in Dusty May, uh, I don't think the Juwan Howard move was quite as well received, but at the same time, Juan did not have like a disastrous tenure, and he pulled the rip cord when he needed to, right?

And then on the football front, obviously, uh, winning the championship , the Sharon Moore hires a disaster, and that's, that, that is the, the conflict.

So in many ways, like his hires equal his, his legacy, just, just as it's, oh, well, we've won, but we had all these scandals, well, we made some dynamite hires and we made some real howlers, and, you know, I think it will be interesting to see.

You know, what comes next, as we said, there will, whoever is the next AD assuming word is out, will have opportunities pretty early in their tenure to uh make some of these decisions and try to make a Dusty May level higher in basketball, try to make a hardbaugh level higher in football.

We'll see, we'll see what comes of it.

Yeah, I, I, I would agree.

I mean, it's, it's kind of mixed, and, and if you are judging it solely in terms of just those hires, I mean, you talk about hitting it out of, out of the park.

I mean, to bring, you know, Michigan, their first national title, especially in football, you know, in, in ages like, like he did, um, you know, to navigate the Jim Harbaugh waters, especially, you know, in COVID where it looked like, uh, you know, Michigan was definitely on the verge of, uh, showing their beloved alum, you know, the door , and then, you know, a couple of years later, you're in the college football playoff and you're winning it all like that.

That is some, some trick, tricky navigation.

And I, I think if you could separate that between, you know, actually the, the job of the AD in terms of actually running the department, I, I think there's, there's definitely a, a, a much cloudier picture on that, you know, I think if you were to kind of pull some of your peers, uh, you know, some of his peers, um, you know, Ward, Ward was generally well liked, but I think there's a, you know, probably an acknowledgement like somebody of, of a more, you know, uh, You know, more gravitas in terms of the actual management of that department would have done even more, you know, in Michigan.

And I think, you know, towards credit, like he, he navigated the politics that can be very tricky there in Ann Arbor extremely well.

Like, I mean, he hitched, hitched his ride to Santa Ono, who is a big proponent of athletics, and like I think that's why he still had a job, uh, throughout a lot of these scandals.

Santa Ono leaves, um, they're trying to go to the, uh, take the, the Florida presidency and, um, look, this is kind of why the, the the The future of Ford Emanuel is, is in the hands of the regents, not, uh, not necessarily anybody else at this point.

So , um, he, he's done a great job in terms of navigating a lot of tricky situations there and, you know, he, he should be given credit for that.

Um, you know, I think they have modernized in, in some respects, you know, the athletic department in terms of how things are , are operated and And run, I, I still don't think like if somebody were to come in here, you know, in, in the next say 6 to 12 months, like there, there could be a lot that could be improved, uh, there in terms of the actual day to day operations, um, you know, like Michigan has not lacked for money, so that's, that's not necessarily the issue there, but it is in terms of like, you know, streamlining some of the processes, some of the people, that sort of thing, um, you know, that could be improved upon like that, that's certainly, uh, You know , on the table for any potential new AD out there, but, um, you know, I, I think it's one of those, those legacies where, you know, probably in 5 or 10 years, you know, when there's some distance from here, like I, I think Ward will be welcomed warmly, uh, by a lot of the amazing Blue fans, you know, in terms of, he was one of the guys that helped deliver two national titles, and, uh, they're, they're not gonna take that away, uh, from a lot of the fans that, that celebrated those things and Um, you know, at the same time, you know, a lot of these scandals do tend to, to fade, uh, in, in memory.

So I think that's probably what's going to happen eventually, um, even though I think you could say overall mixed, but, uh, certainly trending towards the good side, uh, there for Ward.

Yeah, he, he inherited Harbaugh.

Uh, he did not hire Harbaugh, but the, the AD that hired Harbaugh just had to say, yes, please, thank you.

We, you know, Harbaugh wanted the job, and it's like, OK, sure, we will absolutely give you the job.

The hard part was managing Harbaugh, and then deciding, as I said earlier, to keep him when things were not going well through 2020.

But you also had to put up with the chaos, and the Connor Stallions, and the Matt Weiss, and then whatever was going on in Sharon Moore's life, etc.

etc.

Uh, uh, so you had to put up with a lot of stuff, and some, some of that was good management, some of that was neglect, I would say.

So, you get, you get both sides of the coin there.

The Dusty May hire outstanding, although, you know, you wonder if, if Ohio State had made a decision, with, with, with Dusty May have not been there to get, uh, but they, they didn't.

So, Anyway, uh, that, it's been a, a fascinating tenure for 10 years.

Ward isn't the, like, the biggest, like , upfront media guy, um, but we sure ended up having to hear from him a lot of times when things were going wrong or when they won championships, and there he was available.

Um, all right.

Crossroads coming up, you guys alluded to this.

He, he kind of lucked into a 66 year old football coach who uh was available because Utah decided it was time to move on from Kyle Whittingham and get on with Morgan Scally.

And you've got a basketball coach with a two-year contract, which was interesting, and Kevin, you mentioned this, that uh You know, last week, he's getting the contract set for him.

I wonder, this, I, I could be completely wrong.

But I wonder if this was like being able to hand out a presidential pardon when you're a lame duck president.

It's like, all right, this is coming down, I'm about out of here, but I want Boynton to have a chance here, so we're gonna give him 2 years instead of just the 1-year interim deal.

And at the very worst, He gets a buyout after one year, and he doesn't have to spend February listening to speculation of whether he's gonna be uh hired full-time.

Anyhow, uh, Kevin, just the, the, the interesting crossroads here where Michigan is, and, and they're going forward.

What do you, what do you see there, see there?

Yeah, I mean, they kept almost their entire team basketball-wise.

Um, LJ Cason is the lone exception.

LJ was not really supposed to play this year.

Uh, he tore his ACL against Illinois last week of the year.

They waited on the surgery to plan on having him redshirt, now the 5 for 5 stuff's happened, and so now he's kind of shit out of luck, essentially, from what I've been told, maybe there's a world he plays , you know, back half of the year, uh, Miami, which is close to where he's from, is supposed to be where he's headed.

That's that is the rumor mill in college basketball at the moment .

Um, but for the most part, if you're Mike Boyden, you feel good about your standing, right?

You have a contract, it's not a great contract, but it's a contract, you have a very good roster, uh, you were able to convince a sitting head coach and Brown head coach Mike Martin, uh, to come with you.

Um, so yeah, he's, he's gotta fill, I think, one more spot on the staff from, from what I've been told, um, but he has, he has pieces from that, uh, pieces left over, both players and coaches from the title team.

Um, he has some degree of job security to try to coach the team and not spend the entire year looking over his shoulder, but there's a ton of pressure to win this year, because, look, it's a 2-year contract will not stop him from getting fired after year one, if they aren't one of the best teams in the Big 10, if they aren't a top 15 to 20 team nationally, um, and so, and, and again, now he doesn't even have the benefit of being the 80s guy, assuming Ward is out the door, so.

Certainly a, uh, not a fun place to be, uh if you're Mike Boyden, but better than the alternative, I suppose.

So, um, yeah, he, I I I think, I think the, the, the coming weeks will , will be interesting to see if they can, you know, take advantage maybe of some of this, uh , some of these lawsuits and, and steal another player, and another piece.

Everybody else is looking, I'm sure they will too, um, but, uh, yeah, Mike was, Mike was out recruiting in Vegas this past weekend as the contract news dropped and was, uh, definitely looked a little bit relieved, to, to say the least.

Yeah, and I think in, you know, in football, you know, I don't think Kyle Whittingham really cares, you know, one bit.

Like he's focused, he's he's gonna do his job, and, you know, obviously, you know, the season coming up is, is gonna play a big part of that, but, you know, look, this, this is just an inflection moment, you know, they're, they're in Ann Arbor for the entire, you know, athletic department in general.

So like, you know, um, whoever is.

A new person, um, you know, or even if we can somehow continues, um, you know, look, there, there are a lot of decisions that need to be made, not necessarily immediately, but certainly in the near term, right?

And so like , that definitely makes the job attractive if it does come open and probably one of the more attractive openings, um, you know, in the country, and I, I, I think if you're looking out there, it's just like Uh, whether it's men's basketball or whether it's football, you say you, you can make an impact, because look at what Michigan has been through these last couple of years, and they've still been able to find success.

They've still been able to get donors to open up their, you know, their wallets.

So like it's not like it's, it's almost a turkey operation in terms of like you can go in.

There, you can have a big impact and, and still win at a high level.

Like those are the expectations there at Michigan certainly, but um you can understand that uh somebody, you know, kind of cleaning up and uh having everything operate a little bit smoothly, uh, it's gonna help everybody out.

Uh, I, I think in general moving forward.

Yeah, I mean, as I alluded to earlier, this is a job, this is a good job, really good job.

It's uh, a, a huge, rich university that's good at a lot of stuff, wants to be good at a lot of stuff, uh, puts 110,000 or 107,000 in the football stadium, uh, you've got money to, to finance rosters.

It's, it's all there for you.

I, I came up with a list of, like, 7 AD jobs that I think would maybe be the best in terms of, of, if you wanna go, just go chase winning at the highest, highest level.

Um, I got Texas, I think would probably, I would put number one .

And then you've got some combination of Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Georgia, Florida.

Who died, who was my other one, Uh, maybe Alabama, I'm not sure.

Anyway, so that, that was roughly the list.

Where would you guys put Michigan in that group, or would you, or would you have a different group altogether, Brian Fisher?

Uh, I mean that's a pretty good group.

Uh, maybe throw USC in there just to, to, oh yeah, yeah, USC was the other one, yeah, you know, for, for a West Coast presence, Oregon would be up there too.

Uh, I, I think that, I think Oregon might even be a better job than, than USC if you're talking about just being an athletic director, and, you know, Rob Mullins is, I think, one of the longest tenured Power 4 ADs as a result of that.

And look.

Uh, you know, in Michigan, you know, uh, in contrast to those other places, like, you know, if you're at Texas, you're dealing with a lot of factions, you know, there are a lot of different boosters, a lot of people that want to have their sway, you're there in the state capital.

Like I think Michigan, you, you do, you're, you're removed a little bit from a lot of that , like, you know, there's, there's not necessarily, there's probably in university politics that you have to play, but in terms of like broader stuff, um, you know, there's less .

So than other universities.

I think that's, that's a positive for the job, you know, you compare it to Ohio State.

Ohio State, you manage a lot more sports, like a lot more stuff that, you know, Ross York, the, the current AD has to deal with in terms of, all right, I got one of the biggest athletic parks in the country, but, you know, that, that, that can be a blessing in disguise in terms of, um, you know, having to deal with so many sports and, and where those resources are being devoted, um, you know, and, and.

Uh, dealing with even just even more people, and I think Michigan a little more streamlined in, in that respect.

But, you know, I mean, look, they've, you know, the expectations are, are not to where you have to win a national title every single year, like the fan base is somewhat realistic, uh, you know, amongst that bunch, you know like they're not.

Um, you know, power hungry, you know, like some of their SEC peers.

So like it, it, I, I think it's an excellent job, you know, and plus, you know, to be able to live in Ann Arbor, um, you know, be close to Detroit, um, you know, have the donor base that they have, like, I, I, I think it's one of the best jobs in the country, um, you know, to be honest, and I think should it come open, um, you know, that, that's probably gonna be reflected in their candidate pool in terms of the number of names that they can.

Uh, go out and get, and I think it's interesting too, like, you know, in, in the background of, you know, this potential opening there at Michigan , like there's, there is an actual opening at Michigan State, you know, down the road.

It's like there's the, the, the jockeying and really the, the university politics that have gone on that we've seen there in East Lansing too in, in sharp contrast to this, like it, it's, uh, it's interesting times there in the state for sure.

Yeah, my, my, my only hold up, and I think everything you said is correct, Brian, is being the guy who has to clean up the messy scandal-ridden department is never fun.

The guy who has to change the culture a little bit, never fun.

And then you add on the fact that there's still championship expectations, especially cause it's just happened, right?

Like, men, like everybody's just been reminded how good of a men's basketball job it is.

There's no question it's such a great football job, and, and obviously other sports as well.

So, that would be my only concern about taking this job, is I'm gonna walk in there, it's gonna be.

A lot harder to clean up than I think, and I'm gonna have to do that while I try to support, you know, my next men's basketball coach win a national championship, which is not easy to do.

Yeah, yeah, good points.

Uh, the cleanup job is never the funnest job, for sure.

Um.

And yeah, you don't even get the chance to suddenly improve the products in football and basketball cause they're, it's hard to improve over where they've been in recent years.

You do it, uh, the one reason I, USC and Notre Dame, I put on the list, in part because they're private schools and they're not subject to things like FOIs.

But hey, at Michigan, as Brian alluded to, you can just have a, uh, law firm, you pay $11 million and they don't even produce a written report.

Uh, that's the alleged word on this here.

David Jesse, who covers, uh, things in Michigan, said, uh, no physical report was compiled and issued.

Regents were briefed orally recently on the findings, which were critical of the AD and others at the university.

An incredible dodge of transparency, and something that I can't believe our public universities actually engage in, but boy do they.

Secrecy is prized even when people should know what's going on, especially the, the graduates of the school, the taxpayers whose money go to support the school, and the alums of the school.

But that's the world we live in.

Uh, also controversial.

Uh, Sports Illustrated, we came up with our all-time top 50, uh, college football player list, which was a, an absolute, Like, absurd task.

Uh, Brian and I were part of it.

Uh, Kevin, you've been involved in these sort of all-time lists before.

They're really, really hard.

But football, I think, is, is, Probably the hardest in college football is harder than, than the NFL I think, uh, because there's so many teams, so many players, so many years, you're going back into the, potentially into the 1800s.

Anyway, we came up with our list, you can find it on SI.

com.

Uh, it has gotten a lot of response.

I've had, and I told people up front , I was like, you know what, you can, you can basically come back with anything you want to say, and I'm not even gonna argue.

It's like, yeah, look, this is impossible.

You can, you can stridently say we totally blew it.

You can say it's a great list, you could, you know, declare it fraudulent because some player that you liked when you were 14 years old is not on it, whatever, that's fine, not a problem.

Uh, the one guy, the one quibble I had, the one guy said, well, where's Marcus Dupree?

I think he, I hope he was joking, because Marcus Dupree played like 15 games of college football and had one good year, but that, that's a whole other deal.

Uh, but anyway, the list, uh, is topped by Jim Brown.

Certainly a very good football player.

Uh, should he be number one on the list, Brian?

Uh, I, I have no quibbles, uh , with, with that, and I, I mean this is like you said, I mean this is such a, a difficult exercise, like, you know, especially comparing errors, you know, like, I, I mean, You know, college football in the, in, in the 50s when Jim played was, was just a totally different game from, you know, what it is now in terms of uh statistics and, and just how you, how you go about, but like, um, you know, you talk about putting, you know, Syracuse on the map and leading Division One in rushing, like uh, I have, I have no quibbles in terms of Jim Brown's place, you know, in the game, like and and what he meant after that, like, I mean, you could you argue like, you know, all right.

I might have Barry Sanders over Herschel Walker individually as a player, but like, look, you know, Barry Sanders was not necessarily the, the full-time starter, you know, like Herschel was, you know, throughout his tenure.

Like, you know, you, you could quibble really at, at any uh juncture in this list.

I'm, I'm not gonna, not gonna quibble at number one.

I, I think you could probably go down the list and find some more, uh, things I, I might, uh, might have spoken up, uh, a little bit louder about, but like, It, it, it was an impossible task and uh I, I think that the fact that we were able to, even able to get a list out, um, you know, given how, how long it took us to kind of go back and forth uh over the number of, of, uh, players and, uh, you know, where, where they should be on this list.

I mean, we, we were broken, we broke it down by category, by position, by era, like we, we, we, we tried to do a number of different things and, uh, that's how, how we kind of landed and, um, you know, I, I think it's a pretty good effort in, in an impossible task.

I, I just loved going through the list and seeing the guys with, like, 4 positions next to their name, you know, like that, like that, it's the perfect summary of, like, the difference in the sport now versus versus back then.

Meanwhile, you yeah, you got Jim Thorpe, who is the kicker, the punter, the running back, the defensive back, we mentioned, you know, Jim Brown, I mean, this, this, this guy was, you know, we were like, oh yeah, by the way, he also ran track and was maybe the best lacrosse.

Player ever, like, like, you're, like, I mean, I, it's funny, I mean, you, you contrast that with, I, I just interviewed Jackson Cantwell, who's the number one football player in the country, he's going to Miami, uh, he's a tackle, his both of his parents were Olympic shot put throwers, and he's, like, uh, you know, had a chance to be that, and I asked him, like, are you gonna try to do track?

And he's like, I really thought I was going to, and then I got to campus and I was like, Yeah, they're paying me to play football, like, I, I can't, right, like, it's just not gonna work, like, I, I, I can't be in spring ball and then leave and then go throw a shot for a few hours, like, it's just not, it's, it is a completely different calendar than than than what these guys experienced, so, uh, yeah, that, that, that was a cool reminder and and just kind of the walkthrough history with a lot of these guys, but yeah, no quibbles with number one, but, you know, again, I, I, I, I was a little surprised, maybe by, by Cam Newton over Tim Tebow.

That was my, that was my personal kind of like, but look, you can make a case that Cam had the best season ever, and so, where, where does that stand?

How does, if he's got the best season ever, where does Joe Burrow sit in that rank?

I mean, that's the problem, you get these lists and you, you start to, you start to group them up and you group up certain guys and say, well, this, this argument works well with this guy, but not with this guy.

It truly is, as you said, an impossible task, and I've done it for, like , oh, a 20-year window or a 10-year window.

I mean, when we're, yeah, when we're comparing to, to, you know, Cam Newton and Jim Thorpe, you, you end up in, in difficult waters, no question.

Yeah.

Not much in common in the way the game is played between those two, but still, uh, we persevered and tried to come up with something.

Uh, yeah, I mean, it's amazing , it's interesting cause Jim Brown, I mean, obviously, was a superhuman player, didn't win the Heisman.

Wasn't on teams that, uh, you know, won national championships.

So you could, if, if you're looking at accolades, uh, he wouldn't fit the bill, but in terms of actual performance, hard to, hard to quibble too much there.

I, I would have put Tebow ahead of, uh, Newton, I think I did in the, the top 10 or whatever that I sent in.

We had so many variouss, Brian alluded to iterations of this list and how to come up with it, uh.

You know, you, there were just way too many.

Ways to, uh, to split, to, to carve up the pie, really, to, to do it in a way that everybody's gonna come close to agreeing on.

But it's been awesome amount of feedback.

I mean, I'm, I've got Jeremy Schaap on Twitter telling us that, uh, you know, a couple of players from, uh, from the Ivy League in the, the, like the 1930s should have been considered.

Uh, so, we're getting feedback from everybody.

Keep it coming, that's good.

Um, is there one player, Kevin, who is, who is criminally underrated, in your opinion?

It's a great question, you know, I was, I was going through this, and I, I did feel as though Johnny Manziel, maybe just because of his, like, like , the, the gravitas of what he accomplished and how big a superstar he was, maybe that overwhelms the actual play on the field, he was very, very good, um, but I, I, that was one where I was like, man, like, he's only the forty-fifth best player ever, but then you scroll down, you're like, all right, who am I taking him over?

I mean, this is an incredible , especially again.

If we're, if you're trying to do this, like I always have to try to put it in the headset of like.

If I was starting a team, who do I want on it?

Like, who, if I'm drafting these guys, am I really taking Johnny Manziel over like, Matt Leinart, you know, probably not, but I don't know, I just, as, as a kid, as a guy who grew up, like, man, like John, like Johnny Football is the first college football star I was like, locked in on, I'm always gonna be a little bit partial there.

Well, how about the guy right behind him, you know, Michael Vick, like, you talk about changing the game, you know, like, and, and, you know, like, I, I, I just like, I, I always felt like I, you know, I, I, I went out and got Michael Vick's jersey, you know, like, uh, like he, he was that, that good, like, you know, just and, and, uh, especially, you know, that, that era, uh, you know, to elevate Virginia Tech, uh, what he was able to do.

I mean, you talk about electric and, and Being hard to stop, like, I mean, he was, he was what those video games were were designed to do, you know, where you could play with him and it felt like a cheat code.

And, um, you know, I think not only on the field but, but off the field, he, he was, he was so good, uh, you know, yeah, I mean, like the, the, the quarterbacks you could probably, you know, make.

A dozen different arguments for for this guy over this that guy, like I, I mean, um, you mentioned liner, like I, I probably would have moved Matt down a little bit further, um, you know, the guy right in front of him in Daman Su, like you talk about it's just an incredible career, the dominance that he displayed, like I, I know everybody, you know, points to that Big 12 championship game where he, he nearly won the won the Heisman Trophy off of just that performance, but like that throughout that season.

Like he was just a man on a mission, like and you you would talk with opposing coaches and they're like, yeah, we, we can throw a double team at him, but like it's not gonna matter, like we're we're gonna design an entire game plan.

To avoid a defensive tackle, like that's, you know, you don't really hear that, uh, about guys like that, so he, he would be one, you know, and it's just fun going through the list.

I mean, you know, Baker Mayfield too, like in terms of the numbers, in terms of the production, maybe the greatest walk-on ever.

I think we mentioned that in, in the write-up, like, uh, I mean, he's a guy that could, could theoretically be even higher, uh, especially if he had, uh, pulled out of that win in the Rose Bowl against Georgia and made the national title game.

I think he could really have argued him, uh, to be one of the best modern-day players, uh, there at quarterback in terms of what he accomplished numbers wise, uh, actually getting Oklahoma, you know, kind of over the hump, that would have been, would have been huge for him, but like, I mean, you go up and down the list, like there's, there's a case to be made for everybody.

I think if anything, maybe Vince Young and, and Reggie Bush, uh, you know, selfishly looking at those two, maybe a little bit lower than I probably would have, would have hoped, um, but maybe that's just kind of where, uh, you know, where, where I was, uh, you know, in terms of watching those guys and especially, you know, coming from Texas and Uh, you're going to USC like that was, that was the rivalry and, uh, know, knowing those guys both well, like maybe those might have been a little bit higher on my, my personal list, but, uh, that's, uh, again, you can go, you can go up and down and, and make a case for, for pretty much everybody.

Yeah, well, that's the thing, it is all, it, it is personal, it is subjective.

Um, I'm glad I pushed pretty hard to make sure we had.

A representation of HBCU players, many of whom are the greatest, among the greatest to ever play football, uh, Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, Steve McNair, Mean Joe Green, uh, because it, it was awfully important, I think, to include players who didn't get a chance to play at some of the schools in, in their, where they grew up.

Uh, but we're still tremendous players.

I feel bad Danny Werfel isn't on the list.

I feel bad Leroy Selman from Oklahoma isn't on the list.

Uh, but again, when you're cutting it off at 50, at, at times, you're like, oh, how do we come up with 50?

And then you're like, wait a minute, how do we not do this 150?

Uh, that was kind of the problem there.

So, Again, everybody check it out, give us your feedback, email, tweet, whatever.

We will, uh, we'll take it, and we're happy to hear from you on that, uh, even though your, your opinions are wrong and mine are correct.

Uh, ACC Media Days later this week, actually starts tomorrow in Charlotte.

They go Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.

Is that correct, Brian?

Are you gonna be there?

I, I will, uh, gonna, gonna head over to, uh, as soon as we're done taping here, I'm gonna head over to France, Spain, the, uh, World Cup semi-final, and then, uh, jumping on a flight right after to, uh, to go talk to Commissioner Phillips and, uh, every, uh, ACC coach there, uh, in, in Charlotte, which should be one of the more interesting, uh, conference media days, you know, you have a lot of storylines, and, you know, in general in college football, but the ACC kind of one of those, those, those leagues that you can kind of say is, is a linchpin, you know, at this point, given the number of Different coaches that that are on the hot seat, uh, you know, coming off good seasons like, uh, the, the players involved, um, the ACC actually is one of the more interesting leagues in, in, in the country this year.

Yeah, um, well, one of, one of the things that'll be discussed, certainly is In the attempt, uh, nothing is easy in college football.

The ACC is an amazing survivor story to me, uh, everything it's been through.

And we, if you guys wanna hear a lot of ACC talk, we did an entire ACC podcast earlier this, uh, summer.

You can find that.

Uh, we talked about intriguing players, coaches, etc.

in the league, uh, recently.

But, uh, one of the goofy aspects of this season is that some of the teams in the league will play 9 conference games for the first time, but some will still play 8.

There's a, it's a 17-team league, 12 teams will play 9 games, 5 will still play 8.

This is due to pre-existing schedules and different things.

Uh, but it will produce a strange, uh, strange season from that standpoint that will undoubtedly create its own share of controversy.

Brian, if you look at the schedules, is there anybody that, uh, necessarily gets a better shake or a worse shake from having to play 9 than as opposed to 8?

Well, you know, I, I think the really the interesting thing that we're gonna hear from, you know, Jim Phillips on, on, uh, Wednesday is, you know, like what, what is the tiebreaking procedures, you know, in terms of some of this stuff, like we, we don't have the specifics in terms of like going down the list to like the 9th degree.

Are we gonna be drawing teams out of a hat, that sort of thing, um, you know, in terms of the AC and look, there are, you know, of those 5 teams, and, and a lot of them do have, you know, uh, other power 5, power 4, you know, games on the schedule, which is kind of why they are, uh, you know, given these, these 8 game slates like.

Do you expect BC to be involved necessarily in the conference title game race?

No.

Uh, do you expect Clemson or even Florida State at this point?

No.

It's like I, I don't know in terms of the actual ACC race, it's gonna have a huge impact on, on, on , uh, who makes it to Charlotte, uh, back to Charlotte there for the, uh, the title game, but, um, it's just gonna be weird.

I mean, like, like it, it, it's a weird season, you know, in general, we, we got the Pac-12 coming back, they got that flex week, you know, at the end of the year, you have this 89 game debate with.

The ACC, I, I think the more interesting thing is who, who's gonna get saddled with an extra loss that, you know, keeps them out of college football playoff contention.

This is something we're probably gonna talk about next week too with the SEC, um, like there's, there's gonna be a lot of teams out there that, look, if you're talking about an ACC team that's 9 and 3, all right, suddenly, you're not necessarily like completely out of the playoff chase at this point.

Um, you, you look at SMU as, as another key, uh, driver there.

You, you look at their schedule, they, they've got Notre Dame on.

As well, that's a big game for them.

Um, you know, I think their, their home road splits are, are pretty, pretty evenly matched, and, um, you know, I, I think there's, there's a lot of, uh, you know, you can kind of go down the list, um, you know, in terms of some of those potential contenders to Miami, um, you know, I, I think they all are the ones that do play 9 conference games, so it's gonna be interesting to see, uh, you know, who could end up challenging the, the Hurricanes kind of for one of those top spots and, and maybe make it, uh, as that second team out of the ACC to make the playoffs.

Yeah, I mean, this is, like , I, I, I, I was not in the weeds enough to have realized this was happening until Pat sent it along, and I just had like a, like a 5 minute chuckle, like, man, like, what, like, what are we doing?

Uh, and look, the ACC is in a similar spot in in basketball as well right now.

I know last year was the beginning of this, where you don't even play everyone once, there's like one team you don't play once, but there's 2 teams you play twice, it's like, what are we doing?

Like, look, the big issue with it is that it makes Dictating a fair champion, ridiculous, and I think football was always in the spot because, you know, look, you're gonna play half the teams in the league, but, I mean, I just, I, I, I can't emphasize enough how silly this all looks in a world where we're still, like, theoretically trying to make the conference championship game, and like, that is like a key path to the playoffs, like, it just feels like we're we're trapped between error here, so that that that was, that was a a a mindbender, but yeah, it's gonna be a fun, fun league to watch, I mean, I think.

Brian, you, you, you said it, like, the, the, just the, the number of teams that kind of feel like they're quietly kind of on an upward trajectory are, are intriguing, and then, you know, some of the teams that have been trending down that are massive brands, like, can they kind of climb their way out of it?

Uh, it's it's gonna be very, very entertaining, and, uh, yeah, I think that there's also a a definite level of, you know, potential B12ification of this thing where you just look around, it's like, Man, all these teams can beat each other on any given night, and it's great football, and, like, does anyone have it in them other than Miami to post the number that puts you in the serious playoff conversation.

I think that that that that will be the question that the league is trying to grapple with, and that I'm sure Jim Phillips, that keeps him up at night, right?

Doesn't really help, it doesn't help anybody if like, oh great, the uh our our SP+ is a little bit better as a league, or, we've got a bunch of teams in the top 30, like, you need top 12, like it's a zero-sum game in a lot of respects.

Yeah, top 30 doesn't get you very far anymore in this, uh, in this landscape, that's for sure.

I, I feel a little bit badly for Duke.

They're, they're on the 4-5, 4 at home, 5 on the road, and one of the road games, you have to go play Miami, which has the quarterback that they swipe from you at the very close of the transfer portal, and you had to sue to try to get some money back out of that.

They've also got to go to Georgia Tech, you gotta go to Virginia, which was the, Uh, had the regular season, uh, best record last year.

You're at NC State, Wake Forest was dangerous.

I think that, that's a tough schedule, uh, there for the Blue Devils.

Uh, but Brian, since you're gonna be there, which coach are you most looking forward to hearing from and why?

Uh, well, I mean, kind of Manny Diaz to see what he says, has to say there about his, his, his former quarterback.

Uh, you know, interesting times, like, you know, you would have thought like Duke is the reigning champion of the ACC.

Like you would have thought that would have been, you know, kind of, kind of come in with a little bit of swagger, and I'm sure Manny will have some of that.

But like, um, you know , it, it's not like he, you know, they did, they missed the playoff, obviously, that was kind of, kind of controversial, you know, he, he had certainly had some, I'm sure he'll have some comments about that, uh, moving forward in terms of, um, you know, missing out on that, uh, you know, losing your quarterback at, at, at the death, like I, I'm sure there will be a prickly, uh, Manny Diaz.

Um, uh, obviously, you know, I, I.

I'm probably could, you know, go word for word, uh, with, with Mario Cristobal saying he's gonna turn the page, you know, last year was the last year.

Uh, we're, we're focused on this year's team, that sort of thing, um, you know, out of him cause he's, he's very single-minded, like, you know, I think truly, you know, he wants to deliver a, a much-needed and, uh, you know, uh, trophy in terms of the ACC championship that has been.

Uh, eluding Miami, uh, for, for a long time now, like that is, uh, something that's, it's, you know, going to be a motivating factor beyond making the playoffs, beyond playing, you know, Notre Dame in that rematch, uh, late in the year, like that's, that's gonna be circled, I think, for, uh, Miami, and that team, uh, to say, look, you know, we, we, we've accomplished a lot, we, we've turned around the program.

The one thing that we, we are really missing, uh, outside of winning that game last year at the end, uh, against Indiana was, you know, the, the ACC championship.

So I think there will be a A lot of talk out of him on that one and, you know, it, it, it's gonna be interesting to just to get a, get a sense from a lot of the other coaches, you know, in terms of the resources that the, uh, you know, schools are, are deploying at this point.

You know, I, I had a lot of frank conversations with a lot of the Big 12 coaches last week in terms of, all right, what, you know, what do you think your, your roster costs are and where are a lot of the, um, you know, kind of high-end spenders in the sport and you know what, there's only one school mentioned in, in terms of Miami being an ACC school that was one of the You know, premier spenders in, in the sport, not a lot of others, you know, that, that you thought would be coming close in terms of the actual roster.

Could be great for competitiveness, um, you know, in, in terms of, uh, you know, kind of parity top to bottom, but, um, in terms of actually producing multiple college football playoff contenders, you know, can, are, are these, these coaches gonna be stuck kind of doing more with less?

Uh, is that gonna be the case in the ACC this year and moving forward?

I'm gonna be curious to get the, get a lot of their thoughts in terms of resource-wise.

Are you actually seeing school presence, athletic directors, boosters can actually aligning and saying, hey, we, we need to make this investment.

Um, we, we saw it pay off, you know, I mean, Miami is gonna, um, be, be a huge beneficiary in terms of some of the monetary changes that the league is doing in terms of their distribution.

Are others gonna see that and say, hey, we, we, we gotta step up our spending as well.

Um, curious to get that pulse, if you will, um, from, from the head coaches, from the, uh, the ADs that will be there as well.

If there's one thing you can guarantee in, in a modern media day, it is that the schools that don't have a lot of money will exaggerate drastically both about how little they have and how much the top have.

I know I saw that, that there was like a TCU Texas Tech spat again of, oh, you know, Texas Tech is $20 million ahead of us and the Texas Tech, uh.

Manager, I think tweeted something instead of like, there's no team that's $20 million ahead of behind us that isn't grossly mismanaging what they're doing.

And like, like, you guys can all shut up, like, but that's the reality.

I'm I'm sure that, you know, Bill O'Brien or someone like that will get up there and be like, you know, Miami has, $100 million and we have, you know, a cup we're we're, we're paying our guys in, in free hot dogs, so, uh, it just you couldn't expect us to do anything, but I always look forward to that.

Well, and it's tough in the ACC too because like, you know, the I want to say there's a lot of basketball schools, but like there's a lot of schools that want to invest properly in basketball, and it's like there is that push and pull in the ACC that frankly, there's not in the Big 12, right outside of like Kansas, like there's not that kind of push and pull uh between the two marquee sports that you, you're gonna get, uh, you know, like you go NC State, like there's been a coaching change.

How's Dave, Dave Doran gonna gonna react to You know, some, some resources being diverted, you know, into the men's basketball program, uh, you know, same at Syracuse, other, other places, you know, especially that, that have had coaching changes recently, um, you know, where's, where's that tension from, you know, uh, whether it's on camera or off-camera or in front of a mic or, or behind it, like where, where's that tension in the, in the ACC?

I think there is probably a greater amount of it, um, in terms of kind of football versus men's basketball than, than other leagues.

Uh, the coach I want to hear from, Bill Belichick.

First year, disaster.

Second year, I'm not sure how much better the roster is, it's different, a lot of freshmen.

Uh, well, the country is zigging, he's zagging, uh, going to what looks like the long-term rebuild with A, a, I think it's 40-plus freshmen on the roster.

So, we'll see how that works out.

Bill, being Bill, he may stand up there and say absolutely nothing.

He may be, you know, find a topic that is of interest to him and gets him going a little bit.

But I'd be kind of just curious to see his demeanor, uh, see if he's, you know, last year, I don't know.

At times, I wasn't sure how into it he is.

I wanna know whether he's into it.

And I, you may be able to figure that out from media day, you may not, you may have to wait and actually see what his team looks like before we know for sure.

That's probably the safest way.

But, uh, always curious to see what he's gonna put on the field and, and what he's gonna say behind the microphone.

Um, all right, pretty, I think we're all pretty, pretty much in alignment that Miami's gonna go to the ACC title game.

Uh, who are they gonna play?

Kevin, who, who's your pick for the other team in the ACC title game?

I, I spent some time thinking about this last night, and I think I'm just like, all in on Cal at this point.

Like I just, the more I, the more I look at it, the more I'm like, they, they feel very similar to last year's Duke team, in the sense of, they've got the defensive-minded coach paired with the really talented quarterback, um, they've got real skill position players around them, and they'll just be salty enough defensively with a manageable schedule to You know, win 10 games and see what happens, right?

I mean, I mean, and Duke was obviously unique with the, with the non-conference losses.

Hopefully, Cal can avoid those, and the, the conference can avoid another situation like that, but I don't know, man, like, this is a, this is a a a doable schedule.

I think uh Keawe Sagapolotele uh is unbelievable.

Uh, I think he has a chance to really explode in this, in this offense, and Uh, I think this could be one of the most dynamic units in the league.

So, yeah, I'm gonna come out swinging here.

That's, that's, I, I, I, I think we get a, we got a West Coast representative, uh, in the conference championship game.

I love it.

That's a deep cut I wasn't prepared for, and I, I like your reasoning even behind it.

Brian, what do you got?

Well, that is, that is incredibly bold.

I'm going much.

Safer in terms of picking, uh, SMU, you know, I, I think you, you look at the record the last couple of years.

I mean, just narrowly missed out in making it back to Charlotte, uh, you know, last year, you know, right at the last game, um, you know, a game they probably should have won, game that, frankly, I think gnaw has gnawed, uh, a little bit on that coaching staff too in terms of losing that and missing out on a chance, uh, to make it back there to Charlotte.

Look.

Like, uh, you, you talk about having a returning quarterback, Kevin Jennings, they, they're launching a Heisman campaign around him, like they think he's, he's finally healthy.

I, I talked with him, you know, uh, a couple of times, um, you know, for, for a number of different things, and he, he, you know, I, I, I don't think we understood how, how much that, that hurt.

Ankle that he had, uh, really limited him, you know, in terms of throwing, in terms of running, obviously, uh, which is a big part of his game.

Uh, I would expect him to kind of make that leap as a veteran.

I think they feel really comfortable about, about them , you know, surrounding him with better weapons.

Uh, they feel pretty comfortable with him.

Uh, on the offensive line, I, I think they're gonna be, uh, pretty, pretty solid on, on defense.

So I think, uh, you know, with SMU, especially with their schedule, um, looking as manageable as, as it does, yes, they do play, um, you know, the Virginia Techs of the world, but like outside of that, you know, who are the other top half of the, the Conference teams that they're gonna end up playing, maybe Louisville, uh, would be the other one.

so you're talking about, you know, 22 potentially interesting games.

All the other ones you should be, uh, you know, more than a touchdown favorite to win.

Obviously you have the Notre Dame game as well that's kind of looming, but it's not gonna impact you in terms of making it to Charlotte, so.

I, I look at SMU as kind of like a, a 10 and 29 and 3 type team that uh could, could even be better than that and, and make it to Charlotte and certainly threaten Miami.

Uh, they would be the ones that I would circle, but, um, you know, it is the ACC like you, you never know what you're gonna get like, uh, honestly, you know, Clemson coming back and, and having a season out of nowhere, uh, and, and returning to form under Dabo Swinney, that wouldn't be the, the most surprising thing out of this league.

It just seems like there is, um, you know, a story here or there that does come out of nowhere.

So, so maybe Kevin's Kevin's onto something in terms of picking Cal.

I was gonna go with SMU as well, 5 at home, 4 on the road, and the best way to end up playing Miami in the championship game is to not play Miami in the regular season, and that's SMU, um, at Louisville looks like the hardest road game .

Otherwise, you're at Stanford, you're at Syracuse, you're at Florida State, um, Home schedule, BC, Cal, Virginia, Virginia Tech.

I think Virginia Tech will be much improved.

I'm not sure they're going to Charlotte, but I think they'll be much improved and Wake Forest.

So, I'm, I'm, I'm good with SMU there, but I, I do, I am intrigued by the Cal pick.

Um, preseason Player of the Year, Kevin, who do you got in the league?

I mean, I, I, I, I'll stay, I'll stay away from the Cal guys, because, I mean, that would be sort of a correlated parlay there, but, uh, I think Kevin Jennings has a chance to have a great year, as you said, Brian, I think he's, he, the, the highs are really, really high, and I think, you know, the, the consistency is what we're all waiting for, and we've seen so many guys over the years, like, as they get more experience as a starter, just continue to kind of find their footing, um.

You know, I think in in this offense, having, having the continuity at that position is huge, and I, I, I think he's gonna have a monster year, and, and everything sets up for him.

I mean, again, I thought that maybe the Heisman push was a little premature.

I like to, I, I'm, I'm opposed to all preseason Heisman campaigns , let's, let's, let's win something, let's play a game, let's produce some numbers, but At the same time, like, I think an ACC championship, uh, excuse me, player of the Year campaign, totally reasonable, that guy is, that guy is one of the best players in the country and has a chance to have a monster year.

I, I feel like you could go with, uh, it, you know, beyond Kevin Jennings, uh, really any of them kind of Miami triumphant, uh, in terms of their quarterback, their running back on the wide receiver.

Um, you know, I think Darren Mina is , is the big name, you know, coming in there, uh, to, to Coral Gables, and he's obviously get a lot of headlines as, as the quarterback, but we, we all saw Malachi Tony and what he was able to do last year.

Such a just, he, you know, he, he can take your breath away.

Times, you know, in terms of the highlights that he can put up, I, I think he's gonna be even better, uh, this year as a sophomore.

I think it, it's gonna help him in terms of he's gonna have to take on a greater share, uh, you know, of that offense, especially in the passing game.

Um, you know, I think they're gonna be, uh, designed a lot of ways to, to open him up and, and have some, some of those marquee highlight plays.

I, I think you, you gotta circle him, you know, I think he's well respected around the league too, so like you, you can definitely see some of.

Opposing defensive coordinators trying to do some, some brackets and stuff and, and, and kind of change up their coverage to contain him a little bit more, um, which maybe, uh, kind of opens things up there for, for Mark Fletcher Junior who's, uh, another terrific guy that they have coming back and I think, um, you know, truly, you know, as much as Mario wants to say, um, you know, he's an offensive line, he, he, he wants to get that run game going.

So like I would imagine he's gonna get, uh, quite a few carries, so like.

Uh, I, I, I look at any of the Miami guys.

I think, yeah, they are not only the marquee team in the league at this point, but, um, you know, really want any of those offensive leaders, uh, I think it's probably a good bet, uh, there to be ACC Player of the Year.

Yeah, I'm, I'm saying Tony, I, I just, I love him and as he was, he was just a freshman last year.

Give him another year, uh, Indiana last year, yeah, right.

No, I mean, he's a young freshman .

He, uh, uh, Indiana couldn't, couldn't deal with him.

147 all-purpose yards against the Hoosiers.

Notre Dame couldn't deal with him in the opener.

Those were two elite defenses.

Uh, Texas A&M had trouble with him.

He had 82 yards and punt returns in that game.

That dude is lightning and, uh, very fun to watch, and I'm gonna say he ends up being your ACC Player of the Year.

But I, you, you might as well just keep riding the Cal thing, Kevin, and go with Jerona Keawe Sagauitelli, who we're just gonna refer to as JKS to make it easier.

Uh, as we go forward, but I agree, that dude, uh, is really exciting, and we'll see what he can do.

Uh, so, Brian will be reporting from ACC Media Day.

We'll have stuff on the website from there.

Uh, and we will leave you with this, uh, point after I, a lot of people have seen this by now.

If you haven't, you don't have to look hard to find it.

Uh, the buffalo in Yellowstone Park.

That Ran roughshod, uh, over a tourist, uh, an old gentleman who like, Bucked him, hit him and bucked him up in the air, like 8 ft in the air.

He was injured.

We hope the gentleman recovers fully.

No ill will, obviously towards him, but it did get me thinking whether this is Colorado's year, watching a rampaging buffalo like that.

I don't, I don't know whether the, the, the actual CU buffs have anybody quite that ferocious on their team, but, Is there a living version of a mascot you would be more afraid of to face than Ralphie one on one ?

If so, which one, Kevin Sweeney?

I mean, those giant horns on Bevo scare the living hell out of me.

Like, I don't know, I don't know if it's a, it's a more potent beast than than Ralphie, but I, I don't know, just the, just the sheer sheer intimidation factor of, of staring that thing in the eyes would, would be, uh, would be pretty difficult for me.

Well, my bigger question is, like, is this like animal based because, like, you know, Chief Osceola has the spear that he could throw.

You got, you got the, the mountaineer, uh, with the gun, the rifle, you know, like, you know, Texas Tech has some guns, Oklahoma State has some guns.

Like there's some cowboys with guns that are, you know, definitely you, you wanna avoid.

Like there's, there's that kind of aspect of things .

I, I think if we're going animal-based, uh, Mike the Tiger, uh, might, might take it from me.

Uh, obviously he's, uh.

Not, not somebody you wanna be in the same cage with, and, uh, I get Kevin, uh, with, with the, uh, with Bevo's horns there, but like, man, he's, he's a bit of a slow mover.

Like I, I think Mike can, you know, agile, you know, uh, likes meat, can attack pretty well.

Um, I'm gonna go with Mike the Tiger.

Yeah, Mike the tiger, yeah, I mean, one on one with a tiger is not gonna go well.

Probably even worse than a buffalo, yeah, if it can be worse.

But also, like, I, it's not, I don't know whether it's technically the mascot or not, I guess it is.

If Alabama had a real elephant, get the hell out of the way.

Elephants are gigantic and just cannot be deterred if they get angry.

So, you've heard stories about elephants trampling people, uh.

If Bama gets a hold of a real one, and it wouldn't surprise me if somebody there is scheming, like, we need a, we need a real one.

Especially, like if Auburn came up with a real tiger, Alabama's response would have to be, we need a real elephant.

There'd be Iron Bowl one-upping each other in terms of uh live animals.

So, we'll see uh if that's the next frontiers, we, we continue to find ways for colleges to spend money in athletics.

Maybe that's it.

Everybody goes out and gets a live version of their animal.

Uh, all right, guys, that's enough of the podcast, clearly.

Um, again, check Brian's work from ACC Media Days.

I'll be at SEC next week.

Uh, we'll be back with another show then, and we'll have a lot more for you.

Have a great day.

Thanks for listening to others receiving votes.