Andrew Marchand on McAfee's New Deal, Linda Cohn's Retirement & More

All right.

Joining me now as he does periodically from the athletic, Andrew Marian.

Andrew, how are you?

I'm doing well.

How are you doing, Jimmy?

I'm doing pretty good.

Coming off the Knicks high now, so we, we get into the doldrums here.

Yeah, I mean, for me, World Cup has really, uh, picked it up.

I'm a big World Cup guy, yeah, but you know, it's in New York there is a little bit of a What's going on now type of thing going on.

It feels like that's fair.

That's fair.

I mean, what a big run for the Knicks.

Where do you think they would have gotten, what do you think they would have gotten for a game 7 if that series won 7 games?

Yeah, you gotta be in the 30 millions, maybe, maybe you get to 40, maybe close to 40.

It was game 7, the Friday night.

What's the weather like, Mike, uh, the.

I, I miss those days.

Yeah, those are good.

Nobody knew.

The thing about that, Jimmy, and you'll appreciate that there's literally like three people in the audience who knew what a 4.3 or 5.1 meant, but still somehow it was entertaining.

They, they didn't do the million, like how many viewers.

It was the percentage in the market.

Well, my favorite thing for people who don't know what we're talking about, when Mike and the Mad Dog were together doing this show.

They would, Mad Dog would quiz Mike about ratings from like over the weekend.

But the best part is Mike would be off by like 10% points and Doug would be like right on because he didn't want to say like, Mike, you were wrong because Mike would never ever admit to being wrong.

So Mike would be like, you know, uh, 5.9% right on the button, 10.6. Like it was just for the most ridiculous thing ever.

And when he get, I've said this before, when he'd get it, when he'd get it dead on or really, really close, it was like he just split the atom.

I mean he would go crazy.

That's a good job by you.

Yeah, you know, it's funny.

The, the Knicks really didn't do ESPN any favors.

I mean, 4-game sweep in the Eastern Conference Finals, 4-game sweep with the Sixers, and then only 5 games in the NBA Finals.

They've had the Knicks, yeah, they've been pretty unlucky in the conference finals, uh, ESPN over the years.

They've had a lot of 4 or 5 games, and the way those deals are constructed, NHL, World Series, uh, NBA Finals , it's, you know, the amount of games you get make those deals profitable or not.

I think the networks would love to make it so they're tied in to how many , how much you pay.

You pay by, you know, if the games go on, but the leagues are like, no, we're not doing that, which I doubt they'll ever change on that.

I, I said this to Deutsch , uh, several, several weeks ago.

Like, I, I want to sort of like just be out of the ratings game at this point because I do feel like, At least I like, I'll get back into it in September when we can judge properly year over year, but it's impossible to judge year over year because of the Nielsen thing.

And The gains across the board, whether it was the NBA Finals, the Stanley Cup, the World Cup, I, I, I mean, you're getting press releases.

We're up 119%.

I don't know how to judge all this.

Like it, it seems like, and then everyone goes, well, it's not just Nielsen, and, and, and I get it.

I think.

There's a lot to The gambling issue, I think there's a lot too because politics in the outside world is so divisive, people need the distraction of sports.

But, It's like everything being up through the roof is a little bizarre to me.

So I do, I'm not a big ratings guy.

I never have been.

Uh, I always say the longer the press release, the worse the ratings.

Uh, so if it's, you know, they have to explain it too much, it's probably not so great.

Um, so that's number 1.

Number 2 is, uh, yeah, they, they've changed how they do them, so they are going to be out of mark, out of, Home, uh, numbers are included, uh, and so the numbers are up, but there are some, you look at the NHL, for example, I think they're up 67% out of home, out of, that's significant.

67%, 6 is a lot.

It's all for the whole year.

So the NHL had a good story to tell as they go for their next deal in a couple of years, um.

So I think when you, uh, look at it, yeah, I, I, I tend to agree with you.

Everything's up, but, but it does, you also, I, I, I just interrupt you, you also have a lot of things that were cable.

Like I think the Stanley Cup and I think, you know, NBA playoffs on TNT and then those games get put on ABC, NBC, and that's a factor as well and You know, that, that there's more viewers.

Yes, I do think it does tell the story of, you know, we all know entertainment has moved to the streamers, even entertainment that you like that's on network TV or so or, or was on network TV, we still, the, you know, the non, if you're 60 or below, uh, you're probably, You know, watching it on streaming, if you like a show.

You're not going at Thursday 8:30, uh, I'm gonna watch this show.

That's very rare for people to do.

So, uh, and so sports is the one, sports and news is still live.

I think talk radio still has that as well.

I've, I've, I've argued that you don't hear that too much, I don't think, but talk radio, I still think it has a live going for it.

Is anyone under 60 listening to talk radio?

I think they do.

You do.

I think fan, yeah, no, I think fan, like I, again, is it as big as it once was?

No, our podcasts like this.

Somebody wants to, you know, listen about media, they can go right here, um, but.

I think there's less, I think when we move from these things, there's always this feeling of everybody is moved to Uh, social media, everyone's moved the podcast.

And yes, is there a groundswell that have or have moved away from traditional media sources?

Yes, there are.

But the top of those tiers of the traditional players still are, have big games to play.

I think Colin Coward, um, is, you know, is listened to a lot.

Um, you know, I don't know, Jim Rome, but I'll say Jim Rome maybe, you know, fan.

I, I think.

There still is, uh, you could argue, is it as good as it once was and is important?

Yeah, no, it's not as important or or maybe as good as it once was, but um, it's still, I think, uh, something that younger, certain younger people listen to.

That's surprising to me.

I, I, I, because my experiences with younger people is they don't even know what the radio is.

So yeah, but you could stream it.

I never, I never listened to a radio.

I'm not gonna say it right now because it will go off, but the, the words, uh, that Amazon product that they have that if you say it, that's how I listen to FAN and other channels, Sirius XM, uh, ESPN radio.

That's how I listen to them.

So there's no radio involved, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you, um.

What, explain to me and the listeners, and especially me, cause I don't get it.

What is the significance in terms, I guess, NFL of Fox buying Roku?

Well, the idea that Fox was gonna get bought by somebody else, it's smaller in the universe of who's going for these NFL games.

Now he makes a huge $22 billion deal, owns Roku.

So you look at how media is dominating.

Dated over basically the centuries dating back to the printing press.

The old adage, never get in a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel because they own the distribution.

They're the only ones with a voice.

That has moved on.

We could go through the whole thing, but now we're in the digital age.

So who owns distribution right now in terms of, uh, your TV and then moving, you know, more towards your, your phone, your TV, uh, YouTube is the number one by far, and they're gonna be the winners.

I mean, they're, they're they're, they're the champions, they're not gonna be unseeded, I don't think.

Netflix, Apple, Amazon Prime Video, and then you have traditional players.

So, Roku's in that art is not, you know, maybe with those, but they have a big base.

A lot of us have Roku TVs, use Roku to get to certain places.

If you can control where people, how people get these, uh, shows, you have to deal with them.

So, um, you know, $22 billion is a lot.

I can't assess if that's, you know, too much or, or what it is, but the idea that Fox is going someplace, I think takes a little bit of a step back, that Fox is the most, um, You know, at risk, uh, of losing the NFL in 29 or 33, you know, depending on what happens here with these opt-outs, etc.

Um, I think you look at CBS with Ellison, and they're not going anywhere.

ESPN pays the most already, uh, NBC Sunday night.

So Fox has kind of been that one that after CBS got bought with all that billionaire money, um, They're the ones that kind of look like, do they have enough money to play with the Amazons and the YouTube and the Netflix, etc.

and maybe they do, and maybe this makes them have, they might have a stronger hand now.

But what makes them have a stronger hand because they bought Roku?

That's what I don't get.

Well, they own a distribution method, so, so that's appealing to the NFL.

Well, it's not appealing to the NFL necessarily.

It just gives them power, you know, because you're gonna, in theory, you wanna have a panel on Roku, so they have that strength of having a.

And on Roku, the same way that YouTube and their channels and Amazon Prime Video, which really is in the lead on the channels, uh, systems, uh, has an advantage in the cable operator.

So, uh, if you can control the means of people that you distribute distribution, at least have at least part of it.

If you're top, I think it's 3rd, uh, then, uh, that probably helps you overall.

I just, I , I can't, I, I, I understand there's financial, it's all about the financials, but it's hard for me to believe Fox would lose the NFL.

I feel like Out of all of the NFL's partners.

They're the ones who need and want the NFL the most.

I don't disagree with you.

I think the issue with Fox right now and the Wall Street Journal reported that Rupert Murdoch said, you know, uh, went to President Trump and said, hey, can you get involved in this?

Uh, I think there's an issue, there's a fight between, uh, it's not really behind the scenes anymore.

Uh, it's out in the open about, you know, they want more money in the NFL.

Uh, they have the opt-outs in 29, a little bit later for a couple of them.

Um, and, uh, You know, I think the networks have basically said no, and Amazon, no, uh, and so they, right now it's, I, I'm not sure that they're not getting money by this September, and maybe by the following year, they'll get, you know, maybe there's more incentive as you get closer to that opt out.

Um, for, for people to give them more money.

But the thing I always say about this, so just so people understand who, who might not, the opt-outs are at the end of the decade for where they could opt out of the current contracts, which for, for, are about, uh, 11 years and 110+ billion dollars.

So they get, they go through 33, 34.

You can opt out in 29, the NFL says, no, let's rip them up.

You can go to 34, we'll give you, get rid of the opt-out, but give us more money.

Um, now, if I'm the networks, I'd probably say no, I'm not giving you any more money because the way I look at it is that, uh, you give them your milk money now, they're not giving you any discounts later.

So, yes, you get those extra years if it was reasonable, but it's not, it's not, here's 50 million.

It's gonna, they want, who knows exactly what they're gonna want, but it's significant.

Um, and I think CBS last thing, with their change of owner, with their change of ownership and, uh, with the deal they made to get, uh, Warner Brothers Discovery.

That opens up their contract and so that one seems like it might happen, and then they might add $500 to a billion dollars more dollars per year to what they pay the NFL.

Well, when are we gonna start see, uh, so.

The, the Paramount the CBS Warner Brothers purchase .

When is that expected to wear, to To when, when will we start seeing some things on TV that affect us, the viewer?

Yeah, I believe next year would probably be the earliest.

Um, I don't know for certain.

Uh, you know, the deal was just approved, you know, recently, like officially approved.

Um, so it still takes some time.

You know, what you'll see.

I, I mean, I think you look at the Stanley Cup, for example, could that end up on CBS?

You know, that would seem to make some sense.

Uh, I'm fascinated about the baseball playoffs that TBS has.

Yeah, baseball playoffs , that's a good one as well.

Um, yeah, so there are some definitely moving from some stuff from TNT to network TV seems to be like a, a big plus for the leagues and maybe overall in their business portfolio of this new, you know, merger or company or ownership.

Yeah, I mean, you know, it, it feels like because TNT lost the NBA, it almost feels like they're out of the sports game, but they have a, they still have a ton of stuff with the Big 12, MLB, NHL, like they're still a major player.

Yeah, that's another one you mentioned.

You didn't mention one in the college football playoff.

They have , um, a semifinal, but that gets an asterisk because all they're getting is the ESPN shit that they don't want that gets bludgeoned.

But if you put that on CBS, what does that do to the numbers?

Nothing.

Well, I, no, not nothing, but it's still going against the NFL, so it's still gonna get bludgeoned.

Yeah I mean like the only games ESPN sells off are the ones that go against the NFL, and it's just not, but not the semifinal.

I don't think we'll go against the NFL.

Now that's in the semi that's new.

Yeah, that's new, the semifinal, but they're giving them, you know, usually it's 20 liberty against, you know, yeah, no, it's good , yeah, yeah, and then it's Chiefs Steelers on the other channel.

So I don't like, so maybe CBS will add, I don't know, 200,000 viewers or something.

It's like, I think I, I, what I'm most fascinated by is I, I would.

I think CBS could give a nice jolt to MLB's ratings for that for the playoffs.

It could.

No, you see it.

I mean, we see with the, we saw it with the NBA with NBC, uh, and their numbers for the NBA and the playoffs in the regular season.

CBS, same thing.

It's just, I mean, that's what we're talking about streaming so much, but broadcast still delivers the most eyeballs, absolutely.

Although I guess what the UFC fight did 150 million viewers according to Joe 300 million, 300 million.

And how many subscribers does I mean, look, the, the thing about the numbers, it was 7 million, but Dana White said they're gonna get Super Bowl numbers, so that was, I don't understand why he said that, that maybe he was talking about some kind of, you know, again, longer the email, that email was very long and very confusing.

That's, that tells you a lot when it's very confusing, very long.

That was a delete as soon as it came in my inbox, um.

Last, I guess on the NFL.

Um, Andrew Catalan does not have any partners now with CBS because Charles Davis is gonna be their lead college football analyst and Jason McCourty just signed an exclusive deal with ESPN.

If, if a CBS executive was listening to this podcast, would you have a suggestion on who they should pair Andrew Catalan with?

Um, I think there's a pretty good chance they go with Ross Tucker, yeah, which is a great choice, I think.

So yeah, that's what he's go with, they'll go with Ross Tucker, yeah, I think, and leave it as a two-person booth, please.

We don't need 3 people in the booth.

But that would be a good boost, um.

Oh, and I guess let's do with this too on the NFL.

I, I, I, I get.

The name recognition.

When it comes to CBS hiring Russell Wilson.

I, I'm not sure America is like on week one at 120 o'clock, at 120 o'clock.

At 12 o'clock, gonna be, let me put on CBS to hear what Russell Wilson has to say.

Like, that's just gotta be 100% a name recognition hire, no?

I mean, they had to hire somebody because they lost Matt Ryan, um, they have Nate Burleson, James Brown, um, uh, Bill Cower.

And so, you know, they, they needed to, to add, um, and, Yeah, look, Russ Russell Wilson, um, You know, a big argument when I wrote this originally that, you know, the CBS thing was, you know, likely gonna happen.

I said that, uh, you know, likely future Hall of Famer, uh, feedback on that.

I, I think if you look at it, people don't think he's a Hall of Famer.

There was some feedback, yes, that people didn't think Hall of Famer.

I think he's a Hall of Famer.

I just don't know if he's popular.

No, no, no, exactly.

That's one, those are two different things a TV figure.

Yeah, no , like, look, will he be OK?

He feels very CBS.

Like, I don't know.

Their, their, their, their pregame shows don't, uh, not the, the Champions League is tremendous, but the, you know, their NFL show, you know, it's always kind of been, it's fine, it's not bad.

It's just, it's, it is what it is.

It's not like it's never been very outlandish.

I can say Dion at one point.

Uh, they had Shannon Sharpe at one point.

Um, but they really haven't, you know, you, you, you, Fox has had the same, you know, big name people for a long time.

ESPN, especially the Berman years, you know, that was such a marquee show.

It's just always kind of, um, It's been fine.

It's just hasn't, it's kind of, Russell Wilson sort of fits in.

He's sort of like, he could be OK.

He doesn't.

Is Russell Wilson gonna be the next huge TV star?

I, I think he could be OK.

I think he'd be good.

He could do it for a long time, but is he gonna be somebody who's gonna jump off the, the screen like Tony Romo did when he first started?

Yeah , no, I don't think so.

I, I like the Kyle Long hire.

I think he's really good on TV.

He was great on the top show that he did with Adam Shine.

Uh, he's got personality.

He knows how to mix it up.

So, I think that was a really good hire by CBS though.

I'll tune in more for him than I, I just don't, I think most NFL fans think Russell Wilson is more, Like cringe , then I need his football take, but we'll see how it plays out, I guess.

I don't know.

You don't know.

I mean, I, I look, I, two things.

I like to wait till people are on the air before I fully, he's been on the air, and I, I don't like the, you know, he'll be like this.

Let's give him a chance.

He's now retired, um, and so I, I give him a chance.

He could be OK.

I also think those shows are a little bit past their due date.

We were talking about a lot of things earlier.

It's just that there was a time where you tuned in at whatever time back in the day that countdown, it could probably start at what, 10, uh, back in the day, maybe 11, uh, and you were finding out the information.

Now we have all the information all week, every day, every which way.

And so you get to these shows, and that's where it begs, you said Kyle Long, but, I do think there is the Fox approach, I could see why that might be the best approach.

We only do Hall of Famers because these guys are only on once a week.

How do you make it special?

How do you make it different?

And Kyle Long's very good on TV, um, and in the traditional sense, yes, he's a better hire because you're doing TV, but do you care as much about what Kyle Long, with all due respect to him, and he had a fine career, has to say as opposed to someone, if Russell Wilson said something about a quarterback, that will get attention.

I'll believe it when I see it.

I said if he says something he has to actually say something.

If he says, you know what, Tom Brady is not the greatest of all time.

I'll take Aaron Rodgers.

Yeah, that will get attention.

Absolutely.

I'll give you that.

Is NBC done with their pregame studio show, like making changes to it for this year?

OK.

Fair enough, cause you would know all that, um.

All right, let me go around here a little potpourri of things here after the NFL stuff.

Um, I thought the Linda Cohn announcement was very interesting in that it was retiring from ESPN.

Does that mean Pushed out Or she wanted out, what are you hearing?

What do we got on that?

I think when you look at, she had moved to the West Coast, um, she hadn't, you know, they got rid of the LA studios for that late SportsCenter.

Um, I think Linda Cohn, like you, I wrote something in the Athletic about her.

Um, if you were to do, uh, this is SportsCenter, you could talk, you know, you could talk about, uh, Oberman and, and Dan Patrick and all those types of people, Stuart Scott, whoever you want to talk about.

But Linda Cohn is kind of, if you like had a face for SportsCenter, first off, she did more than anybody else, but just, You, you have Linda Cohn on, you know, you're getting a good show.

And it wasn't about Linda Cohn, um, and I think, so.

So I always wanted to say that first.

So she's on the West Coast, mid-sixties, um.

I don't think she ever broke the bank, but probably making a pretty good number at this point after all those years, uh, even though not working as much.

Uh, and so I think, yeah, so what you're getting at, I don't know for 100%, but I do think you're probably getting at something.

This is a good time to end.

And, um , and then one thing I would say is that all those nice things about about Linda Cohn, like this happened with Kenny Maine too.

Like, you don't just get, it's not a lifetime contract.

So these things do end, um, and especially if the roles aren't really there, but, uh, she's an all-timer.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And also, A symbol to, to that SportsCenter era that will always be special to people of a certain age.

And like you said, There were certain people you'd see on SportsCenter and you know, OK, this is, this is my SportsCenter.

Let's get locked in.

Hour of highlights when you never saw a highlight before, like on your phone and all that stuff, and an important figure in that show's history without a doubt.

Majorly important, definitely.

Yeah, um, and it seems like, and obviously huge, huge hockey person, so I, you know, when I saw that release, I was like, she sounds like she's gonna have some NHL job at some point, you would guess, but we'll see how it plays out.

Um, I have to say that whenever I put anything out to readers and listeners and say, do you have questions?

or what do you wanna know about, or, or that?

The thing I hear about the most that people want to know about is the Dan Le Batard Stuatz breakup because there is no information out there publicly.

I think there's a lot of, I think those of us in the business talk behind the scenes about what's going on.

Um, and then it came about, I guess this week where Le Batard finally took Stuartz's name off the name of the show.

He hasn't been on in like, I don't know, a year or two or whatever.

And Stuatz is working for Fox Sports Radio.

So let me start with this.

Do you get a lot of people asking you about this breakup like I do?

Or 0 people.

0 people really?

OK, OK.

And I would, because I, I, this is what I would tell people, and then I don't know if you have any information you wanna add on.

Here's what I would tell people.

Whenever anything happens like this, the first thing you need to automatically think of is money and bus like that's usual, like, this isn't like, you know, He took my Amazon package.

Like, it's usually about money and business.

That's what I would tell you.

I don't know if you have anything you wanna add on the, I don't know.

I think, look, I'm not talking about that specifically because I have not done any reporting, you know, I have not looked into it at all.

Uh, so I don't know, but I think your hunch is generally correct.

And if you look at the nature of that show, again, this is all just speculation.

I'm not, don't know this at all.

I wanna make it clear as possible, but If you're Stu Goz, you probably feel like, maybe you feel like you're 50% of the show and it's Dan Le Batard's show.

Maybe you think you're 40% of the show.

Are you getting 40% of the money, you know, so it is called Dan Le Batard show with Stu Goz.

So I could see that being a potential issue, um, when you talk about these things.

He did come close, Stu Goz, to getting the FAN program director job, which would have been very interesting because he would have been on the air.

It would have been like, you know, Chris Olivero, who I've had on my podcast, um, you know, a couple of times is, is very good.

One of the best, if not the best, uh, radio executives in the business.

Really smart guy and really, uh, done a good job, especially what, you know, transitioning, uh, FAN, but he, he doesn't mind.

The, um, you know, when the station's going at it like kind of that barstool thing, and so I think Stu Gotts would have definitely have added to that, you know, kind of, um, drama, Real Housewives of WFAN kind of thing.

No, he's got it going on with Le Batard right now.

So, I, I want, uh, just to clarify, when I say money, I mean, I don't, I, I'm not saying they left over like a specific amount of payment.

I mean business overall, whether it's ownership of the show, yeah, it could be anything, not like he owed him money, not that he didn't pay him, of course he paid them, but they, you know, you've, we've, it's been reported some of these gambling deals that Le Batard has done, and, uh.

You know, I'm sure Stu Goz is getting paid well, but maybe not well enough.

There's a falling out, excuse me, business money.

That's usually, generally speaking, maybe there's something else though, we don't know.

Yeah, you don't know.

Uh, yeah, that, that's all speculation on my end too, but I'm sure that's what it is.

I mean, you know, if you had to make me guess.

Um, what, what's, we're, we're here in June, and the sports calendar really starts in September when the NFL starts.

So we have, we're at the end of June.

So we have July and August, come September in two months, what do you think we're gonna see on ESPN at 2:00 p.m. and 5:00 p.m.?

Hold on, I was gonna say, do you want, I'm gonna maybe text somebody while we're on to see if I can find out what's the deal.

Go for it.

We try this?

OK.

Who are you gonna text?

I can't say.

Oh, Burke Magnus.

If it's not Burke Magnus, we're not gonna get the real information.

What do you mean?

What would he have anything to do with, uh, Stu Goz and Le Batard?

00, I, I was on that.

No, I'm still back on that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, sure, go ahead, text about Stu Goz and Le Batard.

Let's see if I can find out what all right, are you, which one are you texting, Le Batard or Stuats?

I'm not, I'm not saying I'm texting.

Um, so I think, uh, Peter Schrager at 2 o'clock, and I reported this, Peter Schrager at 2 o'clock, 5 o'clock, they continue with SportsCenter.

So I know Van Pelt said no to 5 o'clock.

So was it Van Pelt or bust or what do you, what, what do you, or just SportsCenter's done well in terms of ratings and numbers, so they figure why mess up a good thing?

Because that does seem like, I would think 5 o'clock, SportsCenter is doing well there, but that would, that's just prime real estate to develop a new star.

It is, um, but you have to have the right thing.

I think that they, um, they like the idea of Van Pelt there for a little bit.

They, they talked about him and Ruscillo.

I think if they could have gotten Ruscillo, they would have probably done that.

Um, Burke Magnus is a big SVP and Ruscillo fan, uh, and they, those two guys, I think love each other.

So I think that could have worked.

You know, if you're SVP you have a pretty good thing at 11 o'clock, um, you're on after most of the big games, now you got inside the NBA after the big NBA games, then he comes on.

Um, but, uh, You know, why mess that up and you do need to do the hour, um, but, so I think they'll wait and SportsCenter has done well, it's rated well.

Yeah.

Although, if I, I, you know, if I was Schrager, I would try to get 5 o'clock over 2 o'clock, no?

Or is that not an option?

I mean, I don't think he makes, yeah, I'm sure he'd rather have 5 o'clock than 2 o'clock.

Thanks, Jimmy.

You could be, I think, I think 5 o'clock is a great slot in terms of like.

Would I, when will I watch, when, you know, I'm more, I, I'm in front of the TV more at 5 o'clock than 2 o'clock, but I know nobody watches TV.

It's all about streaming, blah, blah, blah.

Um, I'd love to see them give my guy Kyle Brand a show there too as well.

He'd be a good guy at 5 o'clock.

Yeah, I think, you know, I think he did a lot with SVP.

So I think if SVP had gotten it, you kind of sometimes don't like to give away too much, but, you know, you can kind of see some things where they're trying some stuff out, um, and so that seemed like that was a little bit of a tryout to maybe see if that could work.

Um, yeah, he's good on TV.

I mean, I don't, I think it's probably ESPN move is probably good for Kyle Brandt.

Um, As an outside observer who just pays attention to what is getting traction, what is getting buzz, and what ratings are.

It, it, it seems to me.

And correct me if I'm wrong.

The, the buzz on Caitlin Clark, and probably not her fault.

I know she's been injured, but there was a period of time there where every day it was Caitlin Clark, Caitlin Clark, the numbers would come in, we'd get the press releases from across the board, ESPN, CBS, Ion, all these places.

And now it just seems like I don't hear anything about her except if she's like fighting with a coach or a player or something.

What has happened here?

She got hurt, number one, so that hurts.

You, you miss a year, uh, for the most, you know, almost a year.

Secondly, I think you could say that this has been mismanaged about as poorly as it could be by the league and just the whole thing.

Like, I don't know why.

Again, I don't know everything that goes on in the WNBA, you know, I, I've said this before, I, I, you know, I'll turn it on a little if it's on and like, you know, flipping around, uh, Caitlin Clark, you turn in, she's, she's a kind of must-see, at least she was for a while still.

I, I watched a couple of games so far this year that I wouldn't have watched cause Caitlin Clark.

Um, but yeah, the buzz is not there.

Now, you get a championship run, you know, fever was pretty good without her last year.

Uh, I know they've had some, you know, run-ins with the coach, um.

But that happens during a long season, it might, that ends in a championship.

I think, you know, you might get that back, um.

You know, she is, I think, I don't know what she's averaging, but I still think her numbers are good.

They're not, you know, amazing necessarily, um, but yeah, the buzz is definitely not as it, it could get and I'm talking about, I'm talking about buzz and ratings.

Like I don't, there's no releases anymore about all the ratings records she's, well, she's on the other, again, I don't blame them.

She's every game she's on is on national TV.

I, uh, let me ask you CBS, right, but do you think the fact that She's on like 78 different networks.

Like they have some crazy deal, the the WNBA.

They're on like 78 different networks, but I think for the WNBA that's good.

I, I know I, I got that with, uh, you know, like you get that with, you know, niche, the NBA playoffs.

You didn't know what every night you didn't know what channel the games were on.

What are you talking about?

NBA playoffs, NBA playoffs.

So for the you're wrong about that.

It wasn't that confusing, Jimmy.

It was in the early rounds.

It's not that it takes like 8, like, I mean, look, I'm with you a little bit.

But there's 3 places there are.

Maybe I guess Peacock had a couple exclusives, so did right Prime.

Prime is an ABC and ESPN and NBC.

It just wasn't.

It's, I don't know.

I don't think you Google once you can go athletic.

That's athletic athlete.

The point is the WNBA , I would say with the, I would say the WNBEA being on a million places is not the worst thing.

Like I will tell you how many times I, Ion is not really something that I would necessarily turn to ever, really diagnosis murder.

You're not all over it.

I don't know.

So, uh, you are like, see, like, like making my point, maybe you don't watch the streaming, you're watching.

But I see the NWSL and the uh N WNBA on Ion all the time, and, and it makes you, makes it very aware of it.

So I would say, If you're a growing league, like this is kind of the MLS's problem with the Apple deal, is that being on a million different places, yes, your diehard fan is not gonna like that, but do you want to be seen as many places as possible to, you know, to, to, to have your eyeballs just happen to see you, I think is, is, is good.

So, uh, we, we're on Caitlin Clark.

I, I think the buzz though with Caitlin Clark has gone down a little bit.

I think it could be reignited.

I think the league is done.

A poor job, and I don't, I don't follow it that fully closely.

I don't think, I think Nike just came out with her shoe and it was like 4 years too late.

Feels like her shoe should have came out a long time ago.

So a lot of shoes.

This is her first shoe that just, I believe, don't quote me, I know we're on a major Sports Illustrated podcast here.

I don't like saying things that aren't accurate, but I believe that that was her first signature shoe.

I could be wrong.

Got it, yeah, I mean, if it's her first, it does seem like.

Should have been done many years ago based on, again, the buzz that she generated, but.

Um, all right, well, I think that covers everything.

I don't really have anything else for you.

Yeah.

I, I, I had the name Diana Rossini written on my notebook, but then I realized you work at the athletics, so I'm not gonna do that to you.

So I'll take, I'll take the hits for not doing that with you , um.

My only point about that is I just can't believe people still care about this story.

Like I, it, like, like, I don't know, like, she Had whatever affair with Mike Rabel.

She wasn't supposed to.

She resigned.

Like, I don't know, like, what, what else are we doing here?

Like, can we move on?

Like, I don't understand at all anyone still talking about this story, but that's just me.

Um, yeah, you know, people are interested.

There's a lot going on there, a lot of, um, alleged, you know, things, and that always sells.

He, they, the coach did go to the Super Bowl.

She's one of the top insiders, so I could see the interest in it.

It's very sensational.

Right.

The problem she has right now is her name in a headline will get clicks and will sell.

So, um, but maybe that could be a positive for her when she wants to, you know, she's gonna have a comeback.

There's no doubt about that.

So when she has a comeback, she will have, um, A bigger name and uh like I liked working with her, so I, you know, I don't, yeah, yeah.

I, I'm just fascinated about whether she does an interview with someone or whether she just tells her story on her own new podcast, which she'll eventually have because everyone has a podcast.

She, she'll need to address it in my opinion.

Like she'll need to address it and address it as, you know, as fully as she can.

Yeah, I agree with that and it'd be, I mean.

I guess, you know, does she try to be around for this football season or does she take this football season off, I guess is, is sort of the question.

Um, we didn't talk about, McAfee, you reported he was getting how much money?

Well, yeah, it's not done yet, but they're negotiating.

It's $60 to $65 million per year.

So not done yet.

And when I know you reported, we'll see you more on NFL stuff.

Remember when they gave Stephen A the deal?

They said we would see him more on NFL stuff.

They put him on like countdown like 3 weeks.

Like, yeah, I think that was reported.

Yeah, he, he did like 3 countdown.

Well, the way it works is that he was.

It kind of they can put him on some marquee.

They could have, I mean they end up getting inside the NBA.

They could have put him on some of the marquee NBA pregames and stuff like that.

And so they, they, they get to decide how they utilize him.

But yeah, that was kind of, yeah, much what would you think we'd see from McAfee?

Any ideas?

I don't know fully, so, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I look, he's done all casts.

Could that become more of a thing?

Could, you know, become a regular Monday night?

Maybe again, this is me speculating, not reporting.

You know, you have the, uh, Manning cast, what did they do 1011 dates, um, you know, can McAfee do, you know, 10 of, you know, or 5, 10 of those, you know, 5 or 10 games as well.

Um, you know, he does the national championship.

Um, who knows?

I mean, they kind of let him do what he wants.

He already does like the other draft shows, so could he just do more of that stuff?

So, I could see it.

So we're gonna have.

Monday Night Football with Joe Buck andreichman, a Manning cast, and then a McAfee alt cast.

I'm not like this, just like, especially, I don't want to be aggregated on this.

I'm not saying that.

I've just kind of, you asked me a question and I don't want it because I'm not reporting that.

Do you get, have you gotten a vibe that people inside ESPN are not happy he's getting so much money?

I think people are generally unhappy when other people are getting a lot of money and it's not them.

I've never, I don't, but I don't know how people can make the argument that he doesn't deserve it.

I mean, listen, if you want to make the argument, nobody deserves 60 million in sports media.

OK, but I've said this a million times.

If you go day by day to what he brings to the table to ESPN in terms of guests.

Content, social media.

I, I, I, I understand why ESPN would make that deal.

Yeah, I report.

You decide.

Um, I don't know.

It seems like a lot of money.

It seems like a lot of money.

And Stephen A, again, it's a production, the way ESPN looks at it.

It's a production deal.

They're paying for the show.

It's different than an on-air person.

I don't think many on-air people will look at it that way.

When they look at the deals, you know, how does it affect Buck and Aikman's deals, uh, which are coming up, you know, I, I think that there is a, um, butterfly effect to all these things.

Uh, look, they see the numbers, uh, they, I've been told, you know, I've been, I don't think that anybody said this on, you know, I don't think anybody said this anywhere or been quoted, but I've been told that they make money on the current McAfee deal.

I don't know if they'd make money on these.

They obviously see the numbers, um, but they've, I think Burke, there's also that college game day where he's a huge part of that now.

Yeah, 100%.

No, game day, he's, he's great on game day, um.

Yeah, I guess he was on, I think it was Oren's podcast.

Burke Magnus compared him to Chris Berman of this generation, um.

I don't necessarily see that, um, totally, yeah, well, I mean, I don't know if he was saying like they're saying, I think he was saying more that, you know, the impact, the face of ESPN look, they, that's what they're, you know, they've gone, uh, you know, he doesn't, he, if you look at his contracts, he, he hasn't finished many of them, um, and this one now he has 2 years left, so, um.

You know, maybe he'll finish this one.

I, I didn't, I, I was betting the under.

So, um, if he does, I'll be wrong on that because I was, I kind of took a, you know, had some fun in the column saying I'll take the under, but you're not a successful under bettor because you have that with Brady also.

No, hold on, wait, wait, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you've always said.

There's no way he, Brady, the, well, the Brady meter and this.

The Brady meter was always that he was gonna do it except one time I jokingly put it down to 49% after the Raider ownership stuff or 50, the 51%, he won't do it and it caused the whole stir.

Are you telling me you have not gone on record as saying Brady will never do 10 years at Fox.

I don't think I've ever said that.

I, I maybe I've said like, oh, I don't see him maybe doing 10 years.

Like, it's possible I've said like he might not do this forever.

I definitely, I, I just don't talk like that definitively saying he won't do 10 years.

I, maybe somebody can find the archives.

This is like this is when we had to find the, uh, downloads when, uh, that was, that was, that was, that was, there was no question about that one.

You didn't say anything.

I know, I know what happened.

I know the background story.

Someone told Mike, uh, you're still scarred from that.

I'm not scarred for, well, I mean, I ended up having to go down to the station and I mean, you go back, I went back, you must have loved that because I was in the middle of it.

I went back a little while ago and just read those stories.

That was like a crazy story.

So for people who don't know, this was 100 years ago.

Martian did the pod and he was giving an example and talking in generalities and said about Mike Francesa's app at the time, which was like $9 a month, which was just the greatest thing ever.

So something like, well, let's say Mike has 300 subscribers.

He, he wasn't saying he had it.

He was using it as a, and, Someone went to Mike and said Andrew Marshian went on a podcast and said you have 300 subscribers.

Then Mike went on the radio and said, I don't know, he called you all sorts of names and challenged you, and then you went, he said, he said 50,000.

He'd bet $500,000 that if, if I could prove that he has less than 800 subscribers.

Which doesn't seem like a great number for the great Mike Francesa.

I mean, the great Mike Francesa, I mean, the, the problem with the app was he already had a show 5 days a week at that point .

So now you're getting more because he came back anyway.

Then he challenged me.

We went at it on Twitter, and then he challenged me to come down to the station, and I went down to the station, and he didn't show up for work that day.

He was, uh, home, work from home day .

Love it.

That's, it's a great moment in the history of the SI Media podcast.

That's for sure.

It was good and it was 300 down well, because we had a, when that happened.

We had, I think it was Mark Sanchez, the great Mark Sanchez who covers baseball now.

I think he's the one who was able to, I don't know how he did it, um, but able to go through your transcripts really fast to see what I said because we, I didn't even know what I said.

It was like a week later.

Like what did I say?

And it was 300 downloads.

I didn't even say subscribers.

It was downloads.

And so we found, we just want to make sure I didn't misspeak or something as we went at it.

Sorry I caused you all that turmoil.

It's probably good for my career, so good for you.

Thanks, man.

Listen, I think anytime you get a mention from Mike, that's a plus, you, you know, yeah, I mean, he did.

He's not, he doesn't, he didn't say the nicest things about me.

Oh, But you're right.

No, look, it's, it's Mike friends that's, uh, like out of all the people, yeah, like the radio, the talk people are the ones who go back because they have a lot of airtime to fill.

They need topics to talk about, um, and the problem is that unfortunately when you deal with them is that it's your truths against their lies.

So you have to really think about how you go about it .

And they sort of always have the upper hand because they have that platform.

They could go forever, but it's a different.

No, it's a different platform, and they go forever.

I don't make a big deal about, I, you know, I consider myself a sports reporter.

I know people, and the word journalist sounds a little too serious for me sometimes, but I'm going on facts and so when they're just making up stuff, I mean they.

Whenever I've had it with these people, it's like they just make up stuff.

Now they're, again, we, this is where we get into this world that we're in overall.

There's a bigger issue is that there's a side, there, there are people who just can make up stuff, then the other side's supposed to, you know, tell the truth.

And so it's like that's not a fair fight.

Last thing I would say is when you do cover people like that, I try to make it a policy with Mike.

I never, I address one lie that he told about me, and the rest I just didn't address is my because then my truths are equal to his lies.

So I think you have to stay to your truths and ignore his lies.

Got you.

All right, well, hopefully you didn't get in trouble on this podcast.

I appreciate it.

You can find him on Sub stack.

You can find him at his own podcast.

Andrew Marshian.

com.

Andrew Marshian.

com podcast sub stack and the athletic.

When, give me, um, like, are you breaking any news anytime soon because you go, you break news all the time.

What, what, what can I got a couple of things in the hopper.

In the neck by 4th of July will these things be out?

Yeah, I don't know.

There's people out there listening, some competitors, but yeah, there's a couple of things that might, you don't wanna break news like 4th of July weekend.

You wanna do, you don't, but news doesn't, you don't choose when news breaks.

News chooses when it breaks.

So sometimes you, yes, ideally you want it at, I don't know, I'm sure there's an ideal time that our, um, engagement team at the athletic Tuesday, yeah, Monday at, you know, 9:30 a.m. is probably a great time.

All right, we'll be looking for it .

Andrew, thanks for coming on.

Appreciate it.

Thanks, man.

All right, take care.